I feel like I'm playing Dominators 'wrong'...

[Dauntless]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:51 PM, VV said:

Yeah, Dark/Savage is a LOT of fun! FEAR ME PUNY MORTALS AS I RIP YOUR FACE OFF.

I can't get past the T1 call swarm power.  I mean maybe in 2020 with the murder-hornets invading North America it is more significant, but that "bzzt!" angry-bee sound just kills everything.

 

Some day I'll succeed in finding a toon concept I enjoy enough to ignore it, but until man, ...

[VV]

11 minutes ago, Dauntless said:

I can't get past the T1 call swarm power.  I mean maybe in 2020 with the murder-hornets invading North America it is more significant, but that "bzzt!" angry-bee sound just kills everything.

 

Some day I'll succeed in finding a toon concept I enjoy enough to ignore it, but until man, ...

I don't use it at all. It's not even in my powers slots. 

[BZRKR]

15 hours ago, Dauntless said:

I can't get past the T1 call swarm power.  I mean maybe in 2020 with the murder-hornets invading North America it is more significant, but that "bzzt!" angry-bee sound just kills everything.

 

Some day I'll succeed in finding a toon concept I enjoy enough to ignore it, but until man, ...

On my Dark/Savage ,I left Swarm at a single slot with an ACC in it. I only use it to show my contempt for a mob that has a tiny sliver of life left.

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/5/2020 at 12:00 AM, Dauntless said:

I can't get past the T1 call swarm power.  I mean maybe in 2020 with the murder-hornets invading North America it is more significant, but that "bzzt!" angry-bee sound just kills everything.

 

Some day I'll succeed in finding a toon concept I enjoy enough to ignore it, but until man, ...

I dunno man, 'beeing' someone to death on the Beast Mastery set for a MM is pretty cool.

 

Bee.  Slow.  Sting.  Bee.  Slow them some more.  More DoT.  Repeat.

 

Watch the mob running around with bees around them.  'Buzzing' away.

 

Remember when you got stung to death in Crey's Follow trying to get to a mission?

 

Great to lay the bee smack down on a mob in Bricks.

 

Azrael.

[laudwic]

On 5/5/2020 at 10:44 AM, BZRKR said:

On my Dark/Savage ,I left Swarm at a single slot with an ACC in it. I only use it to show my contempt for a mob that has a tiny sliver of life left.

On my Gravity/Savage I gave swarm a second slot.  I've got two pieces of an IO set Entropic Chaos in it, first is an Acc/Damage the second is Chance to Heal.  That way I get a 10% recovery bonus, and while the damage is low, the power activates very quickly as to not give a chance for their alpha before I hit them with Gravity Distortion (a hold).  Swarm gives me the recharge and end bonus for having a point of blood, a chance for a small heal, and it fits nicely in my attack chain.  (Swarm, Gravity distortion to lock down before they get their alpha off, Propel to knock them and the others around them down, soft control, with the extra impact damage, and then lift with the extra impact damage.)

 

Plus swarm is nice to use for that mob that has just a little health left because the activation is so quick.

 

Since I have to have it, I might as well take a step or two to make it useful.

 

Plus, don't discount the small recharge rate and endurance discount having blood in the savage set.  I use this power in my attack chain simple because it is very fast and it gives a decent little boost.

Edited June 29, 2020 by laudwic
to add an additional thought

[kiramon]

I wish they’d make a pure stinging ranged set. It’d be pretty cool to have a toxic primary damage set, with a lethal component (rather than lethal with a toxic like spines)

 

[longdayinrehab]

I want to thank everyone for this discussion. I made my first Dom after reading it and was able to grok the playstyle fairly quickly with all of this in mind. I have to say that it is quite fun.

[ninja surprise]

Same here. My big hurdle, migrating from Controllers, is getting used to not having or caring about Containment, and not trying to defeat foes with the primary.

On my Grav/Kin, I lay down the gravity distortion field, over and over, getting containment with double damage and a billion tics of DoT, while throwing out the single-target attacks and buffing/healing myself. 

On my new Earth/Earth I tried throwing out the Stone Cages over and over, but the DoT is so minuscule it's barely noticeable. Tossing Stone Prison and Fossilize slightly increments it.  

 

Thank goodness the WTF is the Respec trials. Now I have barely enough control IO sets to get +rech and maximize the control, and put all the actual damage into the secondary. Throw a hold then go pound it with stone hammers. Hurl boulders. 

Primary for control, secondary for damage, just like it says in the description.  Now it works.

[Golden Azrael]

On 6/27/2020 at 5:43 AM, ninja surprise said:

Same here. My big hurdle, migrating from Controllers, is getting used to not having or caring about Containment, and not trying to defeat foes with the primary.

On my Grav/Kin, I lay down the gravity distortion field, over and over, getting containment with double damage and a billion tics of DoT, while throwing out the single-target attacks and buffing/healing myself. 

On my new Earth/Earth I tried throwing out the Stone Cages over and over, but the DoT is so minuscule it's barely noticeable. Tossing Stone Prison and Fossilize slightly increments it.  

 

Thank goodness the WTF is the Respec trials. Now I have barely enough control IO sets to get +rech and maximize the control, and put all the actual damage into the secondary. Throw a hold then go pound it with stone hammers. Hurl boulders. 

Primary for control, secondary for damage, just like it says in the description.  Now it works.

Forget containment.  You're a Dominator now.

 

Sounds like you're in the habit of 'control control' for containment.

 

When you need to be?  Control, control WALLOP!!!  (Close to melee!!!  Control  Close to melee.  Control.  Close to Melee...)

 

It's like a one two three!  Waltz of death.

 

Juicy melee damage.  Don't forget your snipe either.  (Which I also use in melee..)

 

A controller mixed with blaster blapper.

 

It's risky.  But very rewarding.

 

Azrael.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

On 6/12/2020 at 2:43 PM, longdayinrehab said:

I want to thank everyone for this discussion. I made my first Dom after reading it and was able to grok the playstyle fairly quickly with all of this in mind. I have to say that it is quite fun.

You'll find it compelling. 🙂

 

Very addictive.

 

Dominator's are an art form.  In play.  As an AT.  As a build.

 

Perma Domi?  'I'm a GOD!'  Perma Hasten.  Lots of fast controls, fast melee.  Control.  Blap.  Blast.  Control.  Blap, blap, blast. etc.

 

Inside the melee mob.

 

Elec/Elec.  Domi?

 

Sleep...confuse....(blap....blast....blap...blap....blast...)  'That's going to hurt in the morning, son.'

 

Stone Stone Domi?  'Fall over...fall over...can't breath...vocanic...gas....*choke....fall over...Hammer....Stone spears...Hammer....seismic smash....mud pots DoT...slow...'

 

*when you press than 'Domination' button...all those controls....happen...for longer...and....gives the dominator the luxury of time...blap...blast...control...blap...blap...blast...

 

The most two fun dominators I played.  L50'd on live.  So much fun.  I re-rolled for HC.  Elec/elec/patron elec and perfected the build with great domination, recharge, sublime control, damage wholesale...

 

Azrael.

[oedipus_tex]

Dominators are an interesting archetype that (to me) has been slightly left behind by newer game mechanics.

Dominators had a period toward the end of the original game when they were top notch, prior to Blasters having sustain powers and all ranged characters having crashless nukes. Since then though, Dominators are far down the damage scale where it counts, and the class is built around the risky proposal that control powers are strong enough for a player to survive at close range without armor. The proposition works in certain easy content, but falls apart as difficulty level is raised. The content designed to challenge top tier Scrappers and Brutes annihilates an archetype that only gets S/L armors out of its epics. Even Controllers, Defenders, and Corruptors have an easier time surviving at close range. 

 

Dominators used to have the advantage of being the only squishy archetype that could bring any build to have mezz protection. but Destiny Clarion is now provided that to all squishies, even Blasters, and generally with less work than having to come up with a +90% global Recharge build.

 

That isn't to say Dominators aren't still fun. It's just that, to me at least, other than a handful a builds, mainly involving the /Psi APP, the archetype doesn't hold it together in difficulty play the way other achetypes do. And while I undertand why Blasters got sustain powers, because they were truly an underperforming archetype, it's a shame most Dominator secondaries don't provide armor/regen/what have you to reward close up play. Instead most truly difficult content, versus Victorias, etc, is a game of keep away using singlee target blasts and subpar cones, with the aoes only coming from the epics.

Edited July 3, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Golden Azrael]

Hello Odeipus_Tex.

 

A very well reasoned post.  A thought provoking read...and probably broadly represents a live and post live Domi' existence/and potted history.

 

A re-booted  blaster (long needed and necessary...) was always going to eclipse any dominator in terms of raw damage out put.  But a Domi will eclipse it in control.  That's at the core of the AT.  As it should be.

 

I'd like to see Dominators get a 10% boost whilst in Domination. 

 

Scrappers and Brutes are popular for a reason.  Scrappers were always teh 'chosen' ones on live.  Most of a blaster's damage with most of a tank's survive-ability.  Win.  Win.  So the threat of defeat is much less apparent than to compared to the squishie club.

 

But the use of Incarnates has pretty much levelled the playing fields in broad terms for sub-50 content.  That makes sense if you're becoming 'godly' incarnates.

 

So, on the coal face of 'really difficult' content?  It's as you were.  As it always was.

 

It comes down to how you like to play.

 

Do you like to wham, bam, thank you, Ma'am...kill ('arrest') stuff in seconds?

 

Or...

 

Pull the legs off the spider slowly, inflicting a slow humiliation on your foe?

 

The 1st of that might be fire anything with lots of AoEs...coupled with strong ATs, eg Scrapper, Brute...and the reforged blasters (I can farm with my fire/fire blaster...but mezz content outside of fire farms like +2-4 Carnie...I don't do as well on...so depends on mob...) 

 

The 2nd question.  It's Dominators.  It's controllers.

 

It's contact sport vs chess.

 

Solutions?

 

You 'can' play a Dominator 'naked' of any armour or defence and say it comes down to skill.  I'd say, ok.  More power to your arm.  However, in practical terms, when that one dice roll goes against you or that one +4 mob gets through and taps you on your crystal chin?  (Tweet, tweet, tweet....stars....stars....more stars...)

 

My solution is called the 'Holy Trinity.' 

 

Perma Domi.  So you can't get mezzed or stunned with melee or mind attacks.  Perma Domi?  It's lock down.  You have an aura of godly confidence (and ability) that nails down a mob or two...  (And the only chink in that armour is your own hubris or concentration....)

 

Perma Hasten so you can control fast and reapply control fast and hit with your heaviest attacks fast and re-hit with those heavy attacks fast.

 

Defence Cap.  Not getting hit as a domi is an absolute priority to being able to control at distance to allow you to close to melee.  Not being hit in a mob is essential so you can reapply the controls and begin the dance of control and blast/blapping to thin the herd.

 

Epic Armour.  If the dice for defence cap fails, having a chin that can take a hit, or two or three(!) is really important.  It's a fall back.

 

But as you can see there, the mobs have to get through Perma domi controls, Perma hasten controls that lock down a mob so you can attack with blasts and blaps on a herd thinning rampage.  The defence cap is your defence line that allows you to do this unhindered...and lastly, anything that gets through (rarely) has to deal with a dominator that is way stronger than their reputation suggests.

 

Conclusion.

 

I teamed with my Duo-Partner who suggested it was much ado about nothing (they have never got a dominator up to L50...or built one to as high a standard...) as the elec/elec/elec dominator locks down a eg. +4x8 Carnie Mob and?

 

Doesn't do a lot of damage.  Obviously.  (It's not fire...ofc.  What is?)  It takes time to whittle the carnie mobs down whilst doing 'elec' style damage...which is long play wholesale damage.  The moral victory being?  I was still getting hammered by the mezz spams of loads of Carnie Queens with pet summons whilst the Ass(!)/Devices blaster hit the floor (after doing some good initial damage...)

 

Who was left standing in the end?  *smiles.

 

I wasn't leaving until the Carnies went down.  IT was a pitched battle (doing dominator style damage...and then you have the handicap of doing elec damage on top of that...)  And go down they did.  Right down to the last Carnie Queen.

 

And you have to enjoy that style of gameplay.  Or not.

 

If you want to 'bang' the content with a fire sentinel or brute or scrapper.  You can.

 

If you want the 'long play', ladies...then the Dominator may be your thing.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

...if you want a Dominator that will hang on the coat tail of a blaster?  ie a more damaging emphasis than a control emphasis?  'TeH FiRe...'

 

I've seen well built Dominators with Fire/Stone that looks great fun.

 

They get locked down, melt and the stone melee delivers the gift for what's left.  A more expedited Dominator.

 

Azrael.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Ukase]

On 3/13/2020 at 9:53 AM, Redlynne said:

The solution is keybinds.

You set up keybinds for all of your attack powers (the ones you click) such that they (reading from left to right) execute the attack power and execute domination in a format of "attack$$domination" (overly simplified).  That way, if Domination is recharged it automatically takes priority for casting over the attack.  You then set Hasten on autofire (as normal).

 

Or you do it the other way around ("attack$$hasten") and put Domination on autofire.

Either way, you invoke the "second perma power" in a way that is linked to the keybinds for your click powers you use to attack with.

That's clever. I will be honest, since I made my last dom, a Mind/psionic, who's been sitting at level 49 since I decided I just hated playing it, I swore  to not play a dom ever again, lumping all the powersets into one trash can. However, @shotty mario gave an honest attempt to share how much different other powersets would be, such as earth/earth, so I've given them another try. 

I'm not to 50 yet, but it's certainly more enjoyable than the mind/psionic I quit playing. It never occurred to me to make a macro or bind for attacks in such a manner. Love learning things like this, and I thought I already knew most of what there was to learn. 

[Ukase]

On 3/13/2020 at 1:02 PM, VV said:

 Remember that the Red ATs were designed to be better soloists and not designed around the holy trinity of teaming, wall/support/damage.

I don't remember this - and I'm no authority about doms, but I thought doms reached domination faster when teaming? As if they got credit for teammates' attacks when building the dom bar. 

An MM or brute or stalker, no question, they're more solo friendly. But the dom? Nah. They have woefully low hp, with low 1600's as max HP - which I can't imagine how you do that AND go for perma dom. They have to build domination to get to perma. Like controllers, the pets have no idea what to attack beyond what I imagine is "targetcustomnear" somewhere in their code. And that's if you chose one when you got high enough. 

Not saying it's impossible to solo one, just saying I don't believe for a moment the original devs thought this AT was designed to be a better soloist. If that's what they thought, ...I dunno what that says about my take on the dom. I'm trying to like my earth/earth, and it's certainly better than the mind/psi I have, but soloing with them is quite tedious & slow. I could get behind it if it were methodical. But the dps is marginal (sorry, I play brutes, blasters & scrappers mostly -- so anything else IS marginal) but fortunately, the low hp at least gives it some challenge compared to the other ATs I normally play. 

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

An MM or brute or stalker, no question, they're more solo friendly. But the dom? Nah.

 

Doms were the redside Control AT, and compared to Controllers whose buffs/debuffs made them better on teams but with low damage were poor soloers, Dominators did enough damage to solo effectively. But they didn't bring buffs/debuffs to a team. So they clearly were designed with a stronger focus on soloing and weaker focus on teaming THAN CONTROLLERS. Doesn't make them soloing specialists like Scrappers, but it does fit into the idea that redside ATs generally soloed better than the comparable blueside AT.

[oedipus_tex]

The first draft of Dominators was a bit clunky. It was an unpopular archetype for the first several issues after it was introduced in City of Villains. In the original design, power damage was lower, and there was +Damage in Domination. The only Dominators who did enough damage to be considered effective were permadoms. Later, the developers removed the +Damage from Domination and increased the base damage of Dominator powers to even performance out.

 

It helped, but personally I don't think they went far enough. It's always a little disconcerting to me when I switch from Dominator to a melee archetype how much easier that is to play. Dominators have very low modifiers for Defense, Resistance and Healing, but are supposed to be played as mid range or melee hybrids. While it's not fair to do a strict 1:1 comparison with other archetypes, it's worth noting that is is easier to armor up a Controller with a secondary like Kinetics than it is most Dominators even tho Kinetics lacks defense or resistance. The reason is Controllers get better values out of armor powers like Tough, Weave, and their APP armor. That just feels wrong to me.

 

[kiramon]

9 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

Doms were the redside Control AT, and compared to Controllers whose buffs/debuffs made them better on teams but with low damage were poor soloers, Dominators did enough damage to solo effectively. But they didn't bring buffs/debuffs to a team. So they clearly were designed with a stronger focus on soloing and weaker focus on teaming THAN CONTROLLERS. Doesn't make them soloing specialists like Scrappers, but it does fit into the idea that redside ATs generally soloed better than the comparable blueside AT.

I mean, this forum as a whole loves to tout original intentions... so we're at like

 

Brute - The Scrapper of Red

Corruptor - The Blaster of Red

Mastermind - TheWTFLOLOHITSATANKLOL of Red (not really)

Dominators - The ControllersThatDoesDamage of Red

VEAT - The Gods of Red

Not a lot of team-oriented things in there... 

 

Now, anyone that actually played red knows that's not at all how it played out, but they did state several times that they built all the ATs to be less team-synergistic-focused and more damage-oriented/solo focused.