Power Transfer Heal Proc not stacking

[WindDemon21]

As the title suggests, the IO is not stacking as it should. No matter how many you slot, only one will fire off at proc time. I have 3 slotted, along with the panacea in my stalker, and the Panacea will fire off with one of them, but no more than one PT proc will fire off at a proc time. It is not unique like the CotS is now, and should be stacking the procs.

[Noyjitat]

The whole procs per minute bullshit has really nerfed the way procs work and now if I understand everything correctly no matter how many you slot once they reach the limit as a whole they all go on a cooldown and wont proc anymore. So if you've got one in stamina, one in quick recovery and one in physical perfection if each proc should proc 1 times they all go on cool down. That is to say you won't get 3 procs in each power.

 

I really wanna be proven wrong on this but that's how I've seen most procs work, especially utility procs like this. Before i24 you could put performance shifters on your character and solve a nasty endurance problem even with its then 10% or was it 25% chance to proc it was very very useful. 

[Bopper]

42 minutes ago, Noyjitat said:

The whole procs per minute bullshit has really nerfed the way procs work and now if I understand everything correctly no matter how many you slot once they reach the limit as a whole they all go on a cooldown and wont proc anymore. So if you've got one in stamina, one in quick recovery and one in physical perfection if each proc should proc 1 times they all go on cool down. That is to say you won't get 3 procs in each power.

 

I really wanna be proven wrong on this but that's how I've seen most procs work, especially utility procs like this. Before i24 you could put performance shifters on your character and solve a nasty endurance problem even with its then 10% or was it 25% chance to proc it was very very useful. 

This is specifically a Power Transfer problem. Power Transfer is designed to only proc omce per cast, so using it in an AoE will have a lot of chances to proc, but it will only ever proc once.

 

The problem with this proc is that slotting it in auto powers synchs up all these Power Teansfers, and when one procs, the others can't. That is not working as intended, but its a bug of the mechanic they gave this proc.

[LQT]

Have a similar situation. 3 PT procs on a brute with Energy Mastery. One in STA [also slotted with a pure endmod PT IO], one in PP, and one in SC. Was watching the combat log and I'd get 6 procs in a minute most of the time, or even just 5, even though according to the IO tooltip each IO should be firing 3 times a minute. So one of the 3 IOs isn't triggering.

 

2 minutes of combat log below, events grouped by timestamp and stat gain.

13:33:08-13:35:08

 

Quote

[13:33:08] X hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:33:08] You hit X with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:33:08] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:33:08] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:08] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

+10s
 

[13:33:18] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:18] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:18] X hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:33:18] You hit X with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:33:18] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:33:18] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:18] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

+10s
 

[13:33:28] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.

+10s
 

[13:33:38] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:38] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:38] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:38] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:38] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:33:38] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:38] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

+10s
 

[13:33:48] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:48] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:48] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:33:48] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:48] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:48] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:33:48] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

+10s
 

[13:33:58] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:58] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:33:58] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.

+10s
 

[13:34:08] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:34:08] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:34:08] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:08] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:08] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.

+10s
 

[13:34:18] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:34:18] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:34:18] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:34:18] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:18] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:18] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:18] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:18] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:18] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

[Above at least shows 3 Performance Shifter IOs can all work at once.]

+10s
 

[13:34:28] X hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:34:28] You hit X with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:34:28] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:34:28] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:28] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.
 

+10s
 

[13:34:38] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:34:38] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:38] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

+10s
 

[13:34:48] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.

+10s
 

[13:34:58] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:34:58] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:34:58] X hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:34:58] You hit X with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:34:58] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.
[13:34:58] X hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10.68 points of endurance.
[13:34:58] You hit X with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10.68 points of endurance.

+10s
 

[13:35:08] X heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:35:08] You heal X with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[13:35:08] X hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:35:08] You hit X with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 8.01 points of endurance.
[13:35:08] You are healed by your Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self for 74.96 health points.

Power Transfer IO proc goes off every 10 seconds, however with 3 PPM and using 3 IOs you'd expect 9 procs total, not 6.

[WindDemon21]

4 hours ago, Bopper said:

This is specifically a Power Transfer problem. Power Transfer is designed to only proc omce per cast, so using it in an AoE will have a lot of chances to proc, but it will only ever proc once.

 

The problem with this proc is that slotting it in auto powers synchs up all these Power Teansfers, and when one procs, the others can't. That is not working as intended, but its a bug of the mechanic they gave this proc.

Well I hope they fix it soon cause it's really stupid right now.

[Noyjitat]

5 hours ago, LQT said:

Have a similar situation. 3 PT procs on a brute with Energy Mastery. One in STA [also slotted with a pure endmod PT IO], one in PP, and one in SC. Was watching the combat log and I'd get 6 procs in a minute most of the time, or even just 5, even though according to the IO tooltip each IO should be firing 3 times a minute. So one of the 3 IOs isn't triggering.

 

2 minutes of combat log below, events grouped by timestamp and stat gain.

13:33:08-13:35:08

 

Power Transfer IO proc goes off every 10 seconds, however with 3 PPM and using 3 IOs you'd expect 9 procs total, not 6.

thats nice. Though I never see performance shifter proc that often. Atleast I havent on homecoming.

[LQT]

That's because I'm running 3 of them and I assume those 3 procs at once are just the 1.5 PPM cycles syncing up once in a blue moon.

[MoisesG]

My question is, why were the procs changed? i i thought they worked fine before. Was it do to PvP, player suggestion or some type of abuse?

[WindDemon21]

10 minutes ago, MoisesG said:

My question is, why were the procs changed? i i thought they worked fine before. Was it do to PvP, player suggestion or some type of abuse?

Since the performance shifter proc seems to work fine, it seems like its a bug that happened when they made the proc. Hopefully they fix it asap.

[MoisesG]

2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Since the performance shifter proc seems to work fine, it seems like its a bug that happened when they made the proc. Hopefully they fix it asap.

ahh got it, thanks. 🙂

[macskull]

46 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Since the performance shifter proc seems to work fine, it seems like its a bug that happened when they made the proc. Hopefully they fix it asap.

The Performance Shifter and Theft of Essence procs both stack with themselves, so you can get multiple +end procs in a single cast of a power. Power Transfer specifically doesn't stack, which has the unintended side effect of not working at the same time from multiple sources in the same server tick. I don't know whether that's an unfortunate and unfixable result of the way the proc works, or if it's not working as intended, but that's why it acts the way it does.

[Bopper]

45 minutes ago, MoisesG said:

My question is, why were the procs changed? i i thought they worked fine before. Was it do to PvP, player suggestion or some type of abuse?

Not all procs have changed. This functionality is similar to how Force Feedback works, where it will only proc once per cast. It will not stack from procing off of multiple enemies.

 

The bug lies in how this functionality is mech'd. It appears the "once per cast" mechanic is somehow tied to timing, as you SHOULD be able to have Power Transfer slotted in 2 or more auto/toggle powers and have each enhancement proc 3 times per minute. However, it is only allowing 1 proc at a time.

 

If you want to know the performance of having Power Transfer procs in multiple auto powers, you can use the following formula (n is the number of auto powers with a PT proc in it):

Actual Average PPM 

= 60s* [1-(1 - (3 ppm)*10s/60s)^n ] / 10s

= 6 * [ 1 - 0.5^n ] 

 

If you only slot PT proc into Stamina (n = 1) you will get an average PPM of:

Actual Average PPM 

= 6 * [ 1 - 0.5^1 ] = 6 * 0.5 = 3 ppm

 

If you slot it into 3 auto powers like LQT did, you will get:

Actual Average PPM 

= 6 * [ 1 - 0.5^3 ] = 6 * 0.875 = 5.25 ppm

 

We need someone like @Jimmyor @Number Sixto tell us if this is intended behavior.

[MoisesG]

Thanks @Bopper, that makes it more clear to me 🙂

[WindDemon21]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:52 PM, Bopper said:

Not all procs have changed. This functionality is similar to how Force Feedback works, where it will only proc once per cast. It will not stack from procing off of multiple enemies.

 

The bug lies in how this functionality is mech'd. It appears the "once per cast" mechanic is somehow tied to timing, as you SHOULD be able to have Power Transfer slotted in 2 or more auto/toggle powers and have each enhancement proc 3 times per minute. However, it is only allowing 1 proc at a time.

 

If you want to know the performance of having Power Transfer procs in multiple auto powers, you can use the following formula (n is the number of auto powers with a PT proc in it):

Actual Average PPM 

= 60s* [1-(1 - (3 ppm)*10s/60s)^n ] / 10s

= 6 * [ 1 - 0.5^n ] 

 

If you only slot PT proc into Stamina (n = 1) you will get an average PPM of:

Actual Average PPM 

= 6 * [ 1 - 0.5^1 ] = 6 * 0.5 = 3 ppm

 

If you slot it into 3 auto powers like LQT did, you will get:

Actual Average PPM 

= 6 * [ 1 - 0.5^3 ] = 6 * 0.875 = 5.25 ppm

 

We need someone like @Jimmyor @Number Sixto tell us if this is intended behavior.

It shouldn't be or it would be a totally wasted IO for the most part to have more than 1 slotted. In that case I'd rather they make it unique and 15% like the CotS.

[Bopper]

53 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

It shouldn't be or it would be a totally wasted IO for the most part to have more than 1 slotted. In that case I'd rather they make it unique and 15% like the CotS.

That would be OP, given that it easily slots into Stamina whereas CotS requires you to take and use a sleep power. As a 3 PPM 5% heal, it is better than a +25% regeneration. Those regeneration IOs are unique, but the PT proc doesn't have to be. You can still slot more than one if you want to (you have to accept the diminishing returns if you put them into autos) and you can slot them in things that are not autos. An Electric character can have a field day with this proc. Making it unique at 15% is not the way to go. 

 

Truth be told, I like how it works now. Yes, I think this is a bug. But I think the bug's unintended consequences make for a better mechanic when all things considered. Otherwise, you're looking at a proc that is not unique doing more HP/s than a 25% regen proc. I refer you to my cheat sheet that shows how it stacks up when compared between all ATs and you'll see this proc is almost twice as strong as the 25% regen in most situations. 

 

[SuperPlyx]

Gotta say I agree with Bopper , a Willpower Brute with Energy Mastery Ancillary could slot 4 Power Transfer Procs. And I am not sure that 4 of these proccing 3ppm is what was intended.

[WindDemon21]

30 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

Gotta say I agree with Bopper , a Willpower Brute with Energy Mastery Ancillary could slot 4 Power Transfer Procs. And I am not sure that 4 of these proccing 3ppm is what was intended.

Which on willpower is mostly unnoticed anyway. For most other sets, you're looking at 2, or 3 if stalker/brute (please for all that is holy swap cp with sc for scraps/tanks), with accolades makes the proc worth about 22.5% regen equivalent. For 3 slots I don't think 67.5% regen is anywhere near overpowered on any build.

[Bopper]

3 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Which on willpower is mostly unnoticed anyway. For most other sets, you're looking at 2, or 3 if stalker/brute (please for all that is holy swap cp with sc for scraps/tanks), with accolades makes the proc worth about 22.5% regen equivalent. For 3 slots I don't think 67.5% regen is anywhere near overpowered on any build.

I'm not sure how you got to 22.5% regen equivalent, but it appears incorrect. I will update my cheatsheet to include this new table for clarity, but I'll add it here as well since it applies.

The Power Transfer (P.T.) proc is equivalent to 60% regeneration at Base Hit Points, and at capped Hit Points it varies. I put in a new section of the table that shows the equivalent regeneration the P.T. and Panacea procs provide, but you will notice that under no circumstance does the P.T. proc ever count as less than 26.7% regeneration (which is when you reach capped HP for one of the 4 EATs). For a capped HP brute, the proc is equivalent to 28% regeneration, however that is hard to reach. Let's say the brute sits at +100% HP (double base), then you're looking at the P.T. proc as being equivalent to 30% regen. Stack that 3 times for 90%. That is a bit much.

 

[Icecomet]

Hello.

 

I am using Power Transfer on my blaster and I am only using 1, however, it is not triggering 3PPM, it has triggered 4 times in 20 minutes (see attached log that I captured).

 

 

If you require any other data or information, please let me know.

 

Icecomet

 

[WindDemon21]

Pt is a 5% heal is it not? Since it doesn't scale up with how bonuses and only works off base, actually with accolades alone its at 20.83% regen equivalent. Unless I'm missing something from its value.

 

At either rate again it seems like a bug, but considering you already have to get multiple powers to slot it in to stack it in the first place I really don't see multiple applications of it working properly as being overpowered in any fashion.

[Bopper]

13 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

Hello.

 

I am using Power Transfer on my blaster and I am only using 1, however, it is not triggering 3PPM, it has triggered 4 times in 20 minutes (see attached log that I captured).

 

 

If you require any other data or information, please let me know.

 

Icecomet

 

Can you provide a higher resolution image? I can't read anything when zoomed in. What is it slotted in, and what is enabled in your chat log?

[Bopper]

8 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Pt is a 5% heal is it not? Since it doesn't scale up with how bonuses and only works off base, actually with accolades alone its at 20.83% regen equivalent. Unless I'm missing something from its value.

 

At either rate again it seems like a bug, but considering you already have to get multiple powers to slot it in to stack it in the first place I really don't see multiple applications of it working properly as being overpowered in any fashion.

how are you doing your math?

[WindDemon21]

9 minutes ago, Bopper said:

how are you doing your math?

Wait you're right I knew I was missing something, was looking at the %/second not the %regen equivalent which would put it at about 49.6% equivalent with accolades.

 

Bug or not I still don't like how scales down additional procs. If you get the extra powers to fit it, and are OK with the randomness and that it only happens every 10 seconds which can matter in certain fights and can't be 100% counted on then i don't see it as breaking anything still.

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said:

Wait you're right I knew I was missing something, was looking at the %/second not the %regen equivalent which would put it at about 49.6% equivalent with accolades.

 

Bug or not I still don't like how scales down additional procs. If you get the extra powers to fit it, and are OK with the randomness and that it only happens every 10 seconds which can matter in certain fights and can't be 100% counted on then i don't see it as breaking anything still.

The scaling down (figuratively) is a bug. But I dont know how interested they are in fixing it as it would make it OP. They could go with their original plan, which was to make it unique. But that would be a nerf. It would mean you can only get the 6 set bonus once for P.T. 

[Icecomet]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Can you provide a higher resolution image? I can't read anything when zoomed in. What is it slotted in, and what is enabled in your chat log?

 

Yes, you can view the original image here:

 

https://ibb.co/FKnPftY

 

Icecomet