Reinstate 2x influence at 50

[Troo]

19 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

What I'm saying is that it's highly possible that the positive effects (i.e., getting people to shut up) may outweigh the negative effects (surplus currency in the system).

No.

[Grouchybeast]

21 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

SwitchFade, I'm not here to out PhD you.  I know exactly how economics work.  What I'm saying is that it's highly possible that the positive effects (i.e., getting people to shut up) may outweigh the negative effects (surplus currency in the system).  I really hope that HC has enough legs that inflation even has the potential to become an issue!  Your no vote is registered!

The original discussion thread was 66 pages long.  This one is 7.  The shutting up has already largely happened.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[SwitchFade]

24 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

SwitchFade, I'm not here to out PhD you.  I know exactly how economics work.  What I'm saying is that it's highly possible that the positive effects (i.e., getting people to shut up) may outweigh the negative effects (surplus currency in the system).  I really hope that HC has enough legs that inflation even has the potential to become an issue!  Your no vote is registered!

Well then....

 

In THAT case, the real question is...

 

...how much should we NERF Regen?!?!111one1!

[MTeague]

5 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

...how much should we NERF Regen?!?!111one1!

I feel like there should be a /Regen character named ThankYouSirMayIHaveAnother

[MunkiLord]

11 hours ago, GastlyGibus said:

So I know you guys are being facetious, but honestly, 100 merits for a purple. Forget free purples once a year, you can get free purples once a day by just running a TinPex followed by a Yin TF.

 

Bam. Free purple, and it hardly takes more than an hour. 😜

I'm actually not being facetious at all. I think it would be fun simply because of the annual market chaos. It's a very Scrappery approach, but instead of raining destruction down on our enemies, we'd be raining purples on everyone. It's just good Scrappernomics.

[Captain Yesterday]

I've watched people argue this topic constantly and its always the same 12 answers, which = NONE of them address the real problem, and it just goes around and around in circles (which is what I think it's supposed to do).

 

They are:

 

1. "No. We don't want you to = play the way I want you to, not the way you want, and like it. People having fun? On a free game? With no consequences to the universe at large other than having a good time for a few minutes in this terrible world? I'll put a stop to that! (I'll let you guess who those people are)."

 

2." It doesn't affect me, so I really don't care either way, but I still side with people taking someone else's fun away because, well it makes sense. (mostly because it's not me)  so stop whining. Obviously people can't stand when they are on the losing team. You see I haven't been affect at all and I'm not whining."

 

3. "If it cripples someone else's efforts or fun, I am all for it. [Emperor Palpatine] Good. Gooood. I always thought that other people having fun in ways I do not approve of should be admonished."

 

4. "HAHA you farm? I made 2 billion dollars today with market flipping alone! You poor farmers got nerfed while fatcats still make the big bucks! Enjoy your 3 million infl fire farm runs lelz!!!"

 

5. "Stop whining, there are several alternative ways to make money, see? Never mind what you thought was fun and worth your time, Never mind you got robbed or had your fun stolen from you or that you aren't allowed to play the way you want, and if you do, the work has been ""MAGICALLY" made doubly hard for no provable concrete reason (see ending). Never mind that you got your arm chopped off and the man who chopped your arm off lives right across the street. Forget all that! Forget getting your arm back while it's still fresh and re-attaching it! Learn to eat with your meat-hook arm like everybody else. See? I love my meat-hook arm!" (it's called run tinplex and get merits and sell them...etc)

 

6. "Be happy you have a meat-hook arm to use!"  (the worst people of them all). This game wasn't available for 10 years! The devs sacrificed their puppies, hair follicles, and old aunt Shirley to bring this game back from the dead! Be thankful you have electricity, running water, a meat hook hand and two real feet! Don't make the devs come back for your feet too! You're lucky we aren't all stuck in Atlas with Brawl as our only power! You need to thank the Devs right now that you have toilet paper in your house!"

 

7. /Jranger. Redlynne and hater squad will usually swing down out of the rafters like batman and veto anything that MIGHT bring happiness to a free pirated game and the people who might get joy from playing it a certain way and aren't adversely affecting anyone (see my end point on who REALLY is the influence problem in the game, keep reading). My question is why is it so important this person bring MISERY to those playing a free game? Why are they so No/misery based? Their every post is about saying No to something. They'd probably say no oxygen if they could, and they need that. Strange...

 

8. "If you don't like it then leave" people. I can't even begin to get into all the dishonest tyrannical buffoonery and egotism that is inherent in this statement. If the people who complained about thes problems had somewhere better to go, we would have already left. Also, you don't throw a way a dog for pooping on your favorite couch the first time. You hire a trainer and a upholster cleaner and you try to save it. You don't leave the dog in the street to die the minute it messes up. This tells you much about the mentality of these "then leave" people. "Leaving" is not adressing a fixable problem with something we love. That is why we are having so much discussion about it. THIS IS the players cleaning our couch and hiring a trainer.

 

9. "are saying you can't have fun unless you get x infl for farming?" This is a derivitive combination of No1. AND No.5 - "play the way I like to play and like it" AND "I can't believe this is your only option and you can't get with the program". So this person is shaming you if you don't like to  play the game the way they want, but instead want to play the game the way you were already playing. And, they challenge you to try and obscure your legitimate point of view, by not addressing the issue and saying little more than "can't you play a different way that you don't like and like that?"

 

10. "make 100% sense and have no errors of any kind or i won't validate your statement." Says most people who couldn't help you out of a paper bag. Even if you were to somehow make them happy and receive "validation", you couldn't buy lint with it. Once you change their mind would they ever advocate for you? Not even under the pain of death. So why bother wasting your time?

 

11. People assume you are a troll, so they make fun of your statement and assume you must be joking because they are of some holier than thou intellect level that the mere fact that you brought up double inf means you don't understand the wolrd of superheroe economic affairs and must be daft. And since NO ONE can be so dumb as to not include the economics of a pirated video game in their daily viewing regimen, "You must be a troll lol.! Good one!"

 

12. An Overtly Troll/Silly/Insult answer in response. This is just internet trolls trying to rile you. Lotsa hate inside them, in their life, and now they have a new target for it. If only they realized I leave my feelings off when i turn on my modem. But whatever. I am not the subject matter, the argument is, and they are not participating in it. Predictable.

 

THE PEOPLE GIVING THESE ANSWERS WOULD RATHER DO ANYTHING (even make fun of you) than provide 1 ounce of a solution to the problem. An answer WHERE everybody gets to keep what they had and things get better, not worse.  Yeah it's called city of heroes but It should be called City of haters, forums of hate.

 

What No ONE who provides ANY variety of the above 8 answers NOR the devs will Answer is the following HONEST question (because It will prove the "honesty" of thier intentions):

--------------------------------------------------------------

WHY is farming for 3 hours and making 250 million dollars MORE of a "big hit" on the economy THAN flipping enhancements at the Auction house and making 1 Billion dollars every 2 days?

 

And for your information, I've done both.

Farming 1 hour = 60-100 million infl  in 3 days = 300 million

Auction house flipping 1 hour = 300-750 million  in 3 days = 1.5 billion

----------------------------------------------------------------

Even on its best day farming CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE TO AH FLIPPING. But its just so boring. I came to play city of heroes, not city of flippers. But I HAD to START flipping on the AH after farming got nerfed, because i couldn't stand farming and earning 2/3rds the money i did before. And I couldn't fun alts working 2x the hours either for the same infl. That was personal, un-empathetic, not honest, and backed by obfuscating garbage. it was almost as bad when they nerfed my regen scrapper back in 2004 and I quit the game until villains came out. Nobody is asking for these nerfs, But you will always have sycophants and Redylnnes and "your lucky we even have coh" people lined up to smooch some dev behind.

 

Now I'm not good at math. But IT IS OBVIOUS that Auction house flipping makes way more money. But Only farming was nerfed, and ruined some peoples game play.

I used to like to farm, but I HATE to day trade.

So really, WHY the farming nerf again? Because It ain't about the economy, or the exploits.

 

I'm not even calling for devs to nerf the AH. Let people make inf and play how they will. The world is f'd up enough. Now my escape world gotta have problems too?

 

Try again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reinstate double inf after 50 so people could have some fun.  THE WAY THEY WANT TO.

Remove all patrol xp if you have to. Nobody uses that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I reserve the space below this post for the Hater Squad. If you guys could just choose the number above that matches your generic repost answer, that'd be great. If you can't or don't, don't worry i'll label your generic canned answers for you. And if you so freaking smart, fix the problem smartie, and stop hating!

Edited June 19, 2020 by Captain Yesterday

[SwitchFade]

16 minutes ago, Captain Yesterday said:

I've watched people argue this topic constantly and its always the same 8 answers, which = NONE of them address the real problem, and it just goes around and around in circles (which is what I think it's supposed to do).

 

They are:

 

1. "No. We don't want you to = play the way I want you to, not the way you want, and like it. People having fun? On a free game? With no consequences to the universe at large other than having a good time for a few minutes in this terrible world? I'll put a stop to that! (I'll let you guess who those people are)."

 

2." It doesn't affect me, so I really don't care either way, but I still side with people taking someone else's fun away because, well it makes sense. (mostly because it's not me)  so stop whining. Obviously people can't stand when they are on the losing team. You see I haven't been affect at all and I'm not whining."

 

3. "If it cripples someone else's efforts or fun, I am all for it. [Emperor Palpatine] Good. Gooood. I always thought that other people having fun in ways I do not approve of should be admonished."

 

4. "HAHA you farm? I made 2 billion dollars today with market flipping alone! You poor farmers got nerfed while fatcats still make the big bucks! Enjoy your 3 million infl fire farm runs lelz!!!"

 

5. "Stop whining, there are several alternative ways to make money, see? Never mind what you thought was fun and worth your time, Never mind you got robbed or had your fun stolen from you or that you aren't allowed to play the way you want, and if you do, the work has been ""MAGICALLY" made doubly hard for no provable concrete reason (see ending). Never mind that you got your arm chopped off and the man who chopped your arm off lives right across the street. Forget all that! Forget getting your arm back while it's still fresh and re-attaching it! Learn to eat with your meat-hook arm like everybody else. See? I love my meat-hook arm!" (it's called run tinplex and get merits and sell them...etc)

 

6. "Be happy you have a meat-hook arm to use!"  (the worst people of them all). This game wasn't available for 10 years! The devs sacrificed their puppies, hair follicles, and old aunt Shirley to bring this game back from the dead! Be thankful you have electricity, running water, a meat hook hand and two real feet! Don't make the devs come back for your feet too! You're lucky we aren't all stuck in Atlas with Brawl as our only power! You need to thank the Devs right now that you have toilet paper in your house!"

 

7. /Jranger. Redlynne and hater squad will usually swing down out of the rafters like batman and veto anything that MIGHT bring happiness to a free pirated game and the people who might get joy from playing it a certain way and aren't adversely affecting anyone (see my end point on who REALLY is the influence problem in the game, keep reading). My question is why is it so important this person bring MISERY to those playing a free game? Why are they so No/misery based? Their every post is about saying No to something. They'd probably say no oxygen if they could, and they need that. Strange...

 

8. "If you don't like it then leave" people. I can't even begin to get into all the dishonest tyrannical buffoonery and egotism that is inherent in this statement. If the people who complained about thes problems had somewhere better to go, we would have already left. Also, you don't throw a way a dog for pooping on your favorite couch the first time. You hire a trainer and a upholster cleaner and you try to save it. You don't leave the dog in the street to die the minute it messes up. This tells you much about the mentality of these "then leave" people. "Leaving" is not adressing a fixable problem with something we love. That is why we are having so much discussion about it. THIS IS the players cleaning our couch and hiring a trainer.

 

What No ONE who provides ANY variety of the above 8 answers NOR the devs will Answer is the following HONEST question (because It will prove the "honesty" of thier intentions):

--------------------------------------------------------------

WHY is farming for 3 hours and making 250 million dollars MORE of a "big hit" on the economy THAN flipping enhancements at the Auction house and making 1 Billion dollars every 2 days?

 

And for your information, I've done both.

Farming 1 hour = 60-100 million infl  in 3 days = 300 million

Auction house flipping 1 hour = 300-750 million  in 3 days = 1.5 billion

----------------------------------------------------------------

Even on its best day farming CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE TO AH FLIPPING. But its just so boring. I came to play city of heroes, not city of flippers. But I HAD to START flipping on the AH after farming got nerfed, because i couldn't stand farming and earning 2/3rds the money i did before. And I couldn't fun alts working 2x the hours either for the same infl. That was personal, un-empathetic, not honest, and backed by obfuscating garbage. it was almost as bad when they nerfed my regen scrapper back in 2004 and I quit the game until villains came out. Nobody is asking for these nerfs, But you will always have sycophants and Redylnnes and "your lucky we even have coh" people lined up to smooch some dev behind.

 

Now I'm not good at math. But IT IS OBVIOUS that Auction house flipping makes way more money. But Only farming was nerfed, and ruined some peoples game play.

I used to like to farm, but I HATE to day trade.

So really, WHY the farming nerf again? Because It ain't about the economy, or the exploits.

 

I'm not even calling for devs to nerf the AH. Let people make inf and play how they will. The world is f'd up enough. Now my escape world gotta have problems too?

 

Try again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reinstate double inf after 50 so people could have some fun.  THE WAY THEY WANT TO.

Remove all patrol xp if you have to. Nobody uses that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I reserve the space below this post for the Hater Squad. If you guys could just choose the number above that matches your generic repost answer, that'd be great. If you can't or don't, don't worry i'll label your generic canned answers for you.

I'm sorry, that's not how economics works. Rampant inflation is a terrible idea. This DID fix that, prices are already lower across the board.

 

No thanks on a return to the era of uncontrollable inflation.

[ImpousVileTerror]

There is, perhaps, a bit of language barrier at play.

 

"Make," "earn," "get," . . . et cetera.

 

Let's try:  "Spontaneously generates" and "trades."

A farmer spontaneously generates Inf.  It comes in to existence from nothing but the effort of the farmer.

A marketeer trades it.  And in the process of trading it, destroy 10% of it.

 

Yes, marketeers will end up with more Inf, to the point where the game _FAR_ favours marketeers to any other type of player in terms of providing incentive for play through in-game "loot" and currency.

That is a fundamental issue, and I think the one you want addressed, @Captain Yesterday.  And if so, then I think you're very much in the right for wanting that to be addressed.

 

The Devs, however, decided that they wanted to focus attention on the player market before addressing the dearth of rewards at lower levels of play (which is something they've stated they wish to address, eventually).

 

 

 

What -I- would like to know is why the removal of an existing game feature was being lumped in with the closure of an exploit, and not being addressed as a separate matter.  Bad optics on that, even if the end goal was ultimately the same.

[Doc_Scorpion]

19 minutes ago, Captain Yesterday said:

What No ONE who provides ANY variety of the above 8 answers NOR the devs will Answer is the following HONEST question (because It will prove the "honesty" of thier intentions):

--------------------------------------------------------------

WHY is farming for 3 hours and making 250 million dollars MORE of a "big hit" on the economy THAN flipping enhancements at the Auction house and making 1 Billion dollars every 2 days?

Absolutely 100% incorrect.  That question has been answered multiple times:

Farming creates cash from thin air, increasing the money supply, and creating inflation.  Marketeering transfers existing money between players and (via consignment house fees) removes money from the economy and decreases inflation.
 

 

22 minutes ago, Captain Yesterday said:

I've watched people argue this topic constantly and its always the same 8 answers, which = NONE of them address the real problem, and it just goes around and around in circles (which is what I think it's supposed to do).

If you've watched these discussions, then you've seen the answer I gave above on multiple occasions.  If you missed it, you weren't paying as much attention as you thought you were.  If you saw it and dismissed it or didn't believe it, then that's on you.

[Bionic_Flea]

Is the fun in playing the game (whatever that means to you) or is the fun in generating a certain amount of influence?  It sounds like you (Captain Yesterday. et. al.) are saying you can't have fun unless you get 250 million every 3 days . . . 3 hours . . . whatever amount of influence in whatever period of time.

 

Am I reading that right or am I misunderstanding something?

[ImpousVileTerror]

In-game rewards are incentives.  

When the amount of incentive we're used to is suddenly cut in half, it has a negative influence on our perception of the worth of our activities.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but for me the issue is that it felt like a very clear indicator that my particular playstyle isn't even on the Devs' radar.

For the record, I'm not a farmer.  I agree that the player market has/had problems, and the reduction of Influence addressed the particular problems the Devs were targeting.  But it also extended in to reducing rewards at all levels of play for those players who were decidedly -not- racing to 50 and wh (for whatever reasons) are not market gurus.

[Captain Yesterday]

12 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

What -I- would like to know is why the removal of an existing game feature was being lumped in with the closure of an exploit, and not being addressed as a separate matter.  Bad optics on that, even if the end goal was ultimately the same.

That is what I would quantify as No.7 - "Just Hate from Haters" who want you to have a bad day "just cause" and disguise it as any inane level of psychobabble that is easily refuted, that is if it was ever presented on an even plane of conversation. In an open discussion, they have no better answer than "because I want it that way." A game made for people to enjoy, but made the way only they like. All the misdirecting replies have proven it.

 

And it's a moot point because ALL the infl is created from beating enemies, and all the farmers money eventually goes to the market. Farmers don't make money to hoard it, they make money to SPEND IT. So even the farmers get 10% of their money knocked off too. And . The farmers just have less of it, so the economy line is just babble. I used to be a farmer, and I liked not having to play the ah, and I could just play the game how i wanted, and whenever I needed money for a new toon or idea, i logged into my farmer for a few days.

 

But 10% destroyed in fees of 1 billion still leaves 900 million. All of the farmers money eventually gets destroyed in the ah, because, well, farmers make money to spend it.

 

If they wanted more influence to disappear they could have charged for double xp, double costume costs, heck if they card about the economy, they would also start having conversions cost +1 ,+2, +3 or even double. But if they did that they would have a RIOT on their hands from all the secret Mr. Bigs out there with their fat stacks o cash.

 

If they really wanted to dump infl out of the market, they could start selling +5 lvl boost for 50 mil. ,etc. I don't know I'm just spitballing here.

[Captain Yesterday]

15 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Is the fun in playing the game (whatever that means to you) or is the fun in generating a certain amount of influence?  It sounds like you (Captain Yesterday. et. al.) are saying you can't have fun unless you get 250 million every 3 days . . . 3 hours . . . whatever amount of influence in whatever period of time.

 

Am I reading that right or am I misunderstanding something?

And if that is how I choose to play what is your point? Thanks for your answer - you are No.1 "play the way i want you to play and like it" ,but as a derivitive. so you made no.9 congrats!

[SwitchFade]

5 minutes ago, Captain Yesterday said:

That is what I would quantify as No.7 - "Just Hate from Haters" who want you to have a bad day "just cause" and disguise it as any inane level of psychobabble that is easily refuted, that is if it was ever presented on an even plane of conversation. In an open discussion, they have no better answer than "because I want it that way." A game made for people to enjoy, but made the way only they like. All the misdirecting replies have proven it.

 

And it's a moot point because ALL the infl is created from beating enemies, and all the farmers money eventually goes to the market. Farmers don't make money to hoard it, they make money to SPEND IT. So even the farmers get 10% of their money knocked off too. And . The farmers just have less of it, so the economy line is just babble. I used to be a farmer, and I liked not having to play the ah, and I could just play the game how i wanted, and whenever I needed money for a new toon or idea, i logged into my farmer for a few days.

 

But 10% destroyed in fees of 1 billion still leaves 900 million. All of the farmers money eventually gets destroyed in the ah, because, well, farmers make money to spend it.

 

If they wanted more influence to disappear they could have charged for double xp, double costume costs, heck if they card about the economy, they would also start having conversions cost +1 ,+2, +3 or even double. But if they did that they would have a RIOT on their hands from all the secret Mr. Bigs out there with their fat stacks o cash.

 

If they really wanted to dump infl out of the market, they could start selling +5 lvl boost for 50 mil. ,etc. I don't know I'm just spitballing here.

Straw men are less than likely to withstand scrutiny and reason.

 

I'm sorry, but, this makes me much less willing to consider your perspective as valid.

[Captain Yesterday]

37 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

If you've watched these discussions, then you've seen the answer I gave above on multiple occasions.  If you missed it, you weren't paying as much attention as you thought you were.  If you saw it and dismissed it or didn't believe it, then that's on you.

I don't know who you are and what your selling and I've never read your post until now.

 

If you know so much, why don't you argue up a way to get double infl back and fix the market instead of putzing around with me?

Edited June 19, 2020 by Captain Yesterday

[Captain Yesterday]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Straw men are less than likely to withstand scrutiny and reason.

 

I'm sorry, but, this makes me much less willing to consider your perspective as valid.

You are unable to help me IRL, just as you are unable to help me on the internets

 

You validity is neither wanted nor needed. return to whence you came.

 

and you're number 10.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Captain Yesterday

[Haijinx]

Damn.

 

Thought this thread died.

[golstat2003]

I consider anyone arguing for rampant inflation a troll. Full stop.

 

yeah I don’t want the prices we have on live, where a purple coat 100 million inf.

 

the change was 100% the right call, with prices down across the board.

[Bionic_Flea]

16 minutes ago, Captain Yesterday said:

And if that is how I choose to play what is your point? Thanks for your answer - you are No.1 "play the way i want you to play and like it" ,but as a derivitive. so you made no.9 congrats!

I'll take that as a "yes" then.  Fun to you is making a certain amount of influence in a certain period of time.  Thanks for responding.  That helps me understand your point of view.

[SwitchFade]

21 minutes ago, Captain Yesterday said:

You are unable to help me IRL, just as you are unable to help me on the internets

 

You validity is neither wanted nor needed. return to whence you came.

 

and you're number 10.

I think I was just trolled.

 

Good show!

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Captain Yesterday said:

7. /Jranger.

Look, I made a pretty picture for you

[Captain Yesterday]

25 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I consider anyone arguing for rampant inflation a troll. Full stop.

 

yeah I don’t want the prices we have on live, where a purple coat 100 million inf.

 

the change was 100% the right call, with prices down across the board.

You're No.2

Edited June 19, 2020 by Captain Yesterday

[Captain Yesterday]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

Look, I made a pretty picture for you

I was wondering when you'd get here No.8

Where's Redlynne?

[Captain Yesterday]

24 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'll take that as a "yes" then.  Fun to you is making a certain amount of influence in a certain period of time.  Thanks for responding.  That helps me understand your point of view.

 

No. 10

[Troo]