Fire/MA: the Brunker, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

nihilii · November 16, 2020

6 hours ago, Sovera said:

I had such high hopes for this too, and it was so much trouble (almost finished slotting everything when I had the sad idea of checking what 'auto enhance with IOs' did and it wiped all my slotting with random sets).

I feel your pain, made the same mistake. Intuitively you'd assume it'd fill up empty slots, not overtake what is already slotted.

Sovera · November 16, 2020

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

I feel your pain, made the same mistake. Intuitively you'd assume it'd fill up empty slots, not overtake what is already slotted.

At the time I thought it would just +5 all my slotted IOs. WHAT LITTLE DID I KNOW!

Sovera · January 22, 2021

*dusts the thread*

Oi return. Shadowlands was okay but nothing much to actually do.

This is a cross post from another thread, but those interested in a Fire/EM Tanker won't be looking for it in a Fire/Claws builds so I am giving it its own crib:

So, with the changes to EM it behooved me to give it a try. I leveled a(nother) Fire Armor/Energy Melee and soloed it through the different TFs to 50 after an initial boost to level 20.

Spoiler

Overall it was not a bad trip. It is a bit clunky with nothing worthwhile to spend Energy Focus all the way to level 38 but Total Focus takes damage procs very well (90% chance of them proccing with the leveling build) so it was common to one shot +0 minions as I went. I should have picked Energy Punch to fill the gaps as I leveled but ended just taking Barrage, Bone Smasher and Total Focus. Most of the time Bone Smasher and Barrage feel superfluous as they fail to kill an enemy and then either Burn or TF are back up and its overkill, meaning might as well have stopped pressing buttons and waited. Gloom opened at 35 and then Energy Transfer. I am not particularly thrilled by Gloom as the DoT usually goes to waste with me hitting the mob again to be sure it dies, but it's great for enemies that live a bit longer. It suffers from the same problem regarding TF/Burn.

I cannot say I really felt the power of EM while leveling. TF triggering the procs reliably and being a nice chunky damage was the highlight but base slotted ET is still a bit meh despite all the praises. As usual Burn spackled over the shortcomings with it serving both as an AoE prop for Whirwind Hands as well as a second heavy hitter besides Total Focus.

I soloed Posi 1 and 2 at +0x6 (Vhaz hurt), then Synapse at 1x8 (Clockwork do not) with Whirlwind Hands + Burn carrying the build. I continued through Yin, where ez mode started since I could alternate Build-Up and Fiery Embrace melting each spawn as they came, then Citadel and then Manticore, all still at +1x8 with the last AV(s) from Manti being a slog. They always are though, but EM failed to make it faster and the CC was unreliable in preventing PPs from T9ing.

I reached 50 mid ways through Numina and decided to quit the TF, respec, then pick it up again. With all the damage procs and big boy sets in place EM finally got to shine and I could feel that extra damage the set is supposed to have.

What then happened is that I got to the Perez Park mission where we fight CoT and then spent a very miserable three minutes fighting two packs of mobs while my accuracy was floored. Thank the previous god devs who had the enemy AI kindly turn off the Darkest Night toggle every once in a while so that we can finally hit them. This was such a bad experience I decided to respec out of Tactics and go back to the tried and tested Focused Accuracy (there is a reason I always pick it up). Quitting the TF AGAIN and after respeccing into FA once I got to the CoT mission they were easily cleansed with none of the floored accuracy malarkey.

The problem then was that to pick Focused Accuracy I had to drop Gloom. With only four attacks (I'm not counting Barrage) I did not have enough to make an attack chain. I could solve this by unproccing Burn and the recharge made Total Focus, Bone Smasher, Energy Transfer, Burn, Bone Smasher possible. This comes at a terrible cost since Burn when built for procs out is a mini-nuke. Furthermore an AoE nuke albeit just hitting five mobs. To compare the numbers a regular slotted Burn does 403 in Mids. The procced out version does 515. This does not take into consideration the procs possibly going off a second time when the pseudo pet is activated (the one responsible for the myriad of little numbers after Burn is used) nor the missing -res proc.

What it does do is make both a close to seamless ST rotation while also a simplified AoE one with TF, EF, Burn, WH. Repeat.

I have three end-game builds. They all work so I will leave them up. They all rely on two stacks of the Might of the Tanker +res proc combined with Barrier to reach 90% to all res. If the content is not hard enough then there is no reason to use Barrier, but it also means it is not difficult enough to warrant having 90% resistances. Regardless if the Might of the Tanker procs a third time then resistances are capped. It also has close to 40% Smash/Slash defense which with Barrier becomes a permanent 45% (softcap) to most of the damage in the game.

I did just a quick and dirty two pylon tests, no clickies, T4 45% Musculature, T4 Hybrid Assault not clicked (I need to test which one is better, will post it later), T4 75% debuff Degenerative:

- No Gloom and non proc based Burn: 3:15 - 3:20. Considering there is no -res shenanigans not bad, but the loss of the procced out Burn is ow. As a bonus better endurance as well with only Tough needing to be turned off (played with FA on) for three minutes of non stop hitting:

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Absorb%(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(13), Prv-Heal(13)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(21), TchofDth-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 8: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(29), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(29), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(31), SynSck-EndMod(31), SynSck-Dam/Rech(31)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(36)
Level 18: Burn -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Rchg(37), Arm-Dam%(39), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 20: Total Focus -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40), TchofDth-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(42)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(42)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 28: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit(45)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(48), TchofDth-Dam%(48), Hct-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(45), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(46), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 1: Energy Focus
------------

- Gloom and procced out Burn: 2:30 - 2:40. Worse endurance but with Consume this is not a problem. Did not have Tough turned on but still had to turn off Tactics as well since I did not want to use Consume mid test. This is the most damaging of the three in no small part due to Gloom being so good. I would not subject myself to the more exotic content without FA but if usually just farming Council or only teaming, or even carrying a few yellows, then this should still be fine:

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Absorb%(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(13), Prv-Heal(13)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(21), TchofDth-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 8: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(29), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(29), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(31), SynSck-EndMod(31), SynSck-Dam/Rech(31)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(36)
Level 18: Burn -- HO:Nucle(A), Arm-Dmg(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37), Obl-%Dam(37), Arm-Dam%(39), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 20: Total Focus -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), GldStr-%Dam(40), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(42)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 28: Build Up -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(43), RechRdx-I(43), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-Pcptn(50)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dam%(A), CldSns-%Dam(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(48), TchofDth-Dam%(48), Hct-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 1: Energy Focus
------------

- Barrage and procced out Burn: 2:52 messily done (I even used Whirlwind Hands instead of Burn one time :D) - 2:34. Overall Gloom is better (no surprise when we compare the numbers between Gloom and Barrage) but Focused Accuracy makes for a better all rounder IMO. A better slotting of Barrage also helps for leveling and exemplaring instead of relying on Gloom to fill the gaps in the rotation, and FA protects from Arachnos' smoke grenades to Hurricaning witchies/Tsoo and Banished Pantheon/CoT -ToHit spamming. This is the build I will be personally using:

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GldStr-%Dam(45), TchofDth-Dam%(46)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Absorb%(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(13), Prv-Heal(13)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(21), TchofDth-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 8: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(29), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(29), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(31), SynSck-EndMod(31), SynSck-Dam/Rech(31)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(36)
Level 18: Burn -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37), Obl-%Dam(37), Arm-Dam%(39), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 20: Total Focus -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40), TchofDth-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(42)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(42)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 28: Build Up -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(43), RechRdx-I(43), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), RctRtc-ToHit(45), RctRtc-Pcptn(45)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(48), TchofDth-Dam%(48), Hct-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 1: Energy Focus
------------

The rotation is Burn, Total Focus, Bone Smasher, Energy Transfer, Barrage, Bone Smasher. Repeat. For AoE just spam WH and Burn while squeezing TF and EF on bosses in between.

This is what I leveled with. I did not fine comb it so use common sense (replace level 50 IOs with 25, etc). If there is a request I can make a cheapo leveling build. Burn and TF are the big hitters so six slot them ASAP.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- GntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), GntFis-Dmg/Rchg(3), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), GntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GldStr-%Dam(45), TchofDth-Dam%(46)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Absorb%(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(13), Prv-Heal(13)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(17), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), GldStr-%Dam(21), TchofDth-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 8: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(29), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(29), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(31), SynSck-EndMod(31), SynSck-Dam/Rech(31)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Avl-Acc/Dmg(A), Avl-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Avl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Avl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Avl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 18: Burn -- MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), MghoftheT-Rchg/Res%(37), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), MghoftheT-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 20: Total Focus -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), TchofDth-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(42)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(42)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 28: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), RctRtc-ToHit(45), RctRtc-Pcptn(45)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), GldStr-%Dam(46), KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(46), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 1: Energy Focus
------------

I may not be singing praises to the build like I was for Claws but it is more because I am jaded now. It is still nice big numbers for a tank. To put it in perspective I have several Scrappers and even Stalkers who have 2:30 times so picking a Tanker as a character does not need to mean slow whittling of enemies.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Sovera

Sovera · January 22, 2021

There have been quite a few changes since I posted this. Power levels were changed so things can be picked sooner, Fire Armor had a rework, Tankers no longer are forced to take their T1 power, etc. I will not bother going through the post changing everything to reflect the new changes and will just post the new build here and my thoughts:

- The level changes were godly of course. Now we have Freezing Touch available as low as Synapse making the single target rotation available sooner. In the same vein getting a free power with Frozen Fists no longer being a forced pick and Frozen Aura becoming available at level 30 was enough to turn it from a mediocre power to a welcome addition to the arsenal and I endorse picking and using it as it is available as soon as Yin.

- Fire Armor's rework made it a bit sturdier and some much needed QoL sprinkled here and there like with Consume no longer having a chance of missing, some regen in Temperature Control, but making Burn no longer useful for single target damage. That just means stick to ice powers for ST, but if having as little as two enemies in range then Burn is still a nice heavy punch as other than Freezing Touch no other power hits as hard as Burn, but the slow animation makes it a wash for ST with the changes. Considering it's low costs there is something to be said about using it anyway, but...

- The slotting in Punch is expensive and not needed, it's just a bit of min-maxing for the slow resistance and a little bit of extra recovery. A much cheaper alternative is removing one slot, use four Kinetic Combat, then put the slot in Weave and put in a defense from Reactive Defenses. Same numbers in the end, but saving close to a 100 million inf. It's just not very important since 100 million inf is not hard to make and we can always take the Superior Blistering Cold and give them to an alt or sell them again.

- I did not bother redoing the leveling build with the changes but I could if someone needs it.

Tanker (Fire Ice).mbd

Fire/Ice: the hidden gem.

This combination came out on a lark since I had pretty much tested all I wished to test, but decided to give it an hesitant try only to be very pleasantly surprised.

Ice Melee has always been one of those sets which are praised for being good but not standing out and it's understandable. Frost is a big thing and Freezing Touch is borderline Energy Transfer, and Ice Patch is a cute gimmick, but overall the set lacks something.

Well, the pairing with Fire Armor plays like a dream.

It is common to start the leveling and by level 20 to be Build-Up, Frost, Burn and only bosses (barely) still stand. Doing Synapse in particular is a pleasure at seeing those huge Clockwork packs of enemies simply melting. This is not something that Energy Melee, for example and amongst others, manages. Their AoE is mediocre and, yes, to be used since it's there and we are surrounded by enemies, but they do not nearly clean a pack by themselves.

Frost does. And what survives rushes in only to be melted by Burn.

In terms of ST it behaves very well as well. Frost ends up being incorporated in the ST chain due to lack of a T3, but for actual gameplay this plays much better than it may sound on paper. Just focus on the boss and with minimal positioning Frost is cleaving said boss and all things about it. After all Tankers get a nice widening of a cone's angle due to their inherent.

I found that Frost, Frozen Fists, Ice Sword, Frozen Fists suffices until Freezing Touch opens.

Ah, Freezing Touch, one could wax poetic about it. Energy Transfer still hits harder-ish (687 Freezing Touch VS 787 fast Energy Transfer), but ET 'requires' Total Focus first for the fast version. With Freezing touch we can Dim Mak mobs as we float past them.

Freezing Touch also takes to procs very very well so it can be charged up with those. But that means less FT-per-minute. After extensive testing against a pylon I determined there is no particular gain in charging it with procs since it did not improve times. But it does increase FT's damage a fair bit (from 540 to 687), unfortunately after X uses we could have used another FT which then catches up. So I have decided to slot five Hectacomb instead of one +3 Hami and a +5 Damage/recharge Hectacomb with four damage procs. But it's a decision others can do according to their playstyles.

Spoiler

After some time trying to figure out what was better but coming up empty (Bopper I ain't) I decided to go for the true-d and tried: testing.

What is better?

- Five Hectacomb with purple Hold damage proc. This is the lowest damage option at 540, but the global recharge and accuracy are good and also the recharge baked in means more uses of FT since the rotation can go down to FT, Ice Sword, Frost with a 0.5 second gap.

- Frankenslotted Freezing Touch with no recharge (purple damage/endurance). Biggo damage increase. 700 damage. Booyah. A row of 90% chance procs. Downside is that the slower recharge forces a FT, Ice Sword, Frost, Ice Sword and still have a near one second gap.

- Frankenslotted FT with minimal recharge (purple damage/recharge). Middle way damage option at 675, and the recharge is just perfectly edged by the fraction for FT to recharge after Ice Sword, Frost, Ice Sword.

The tests were done without slotting -res procs since I've stopped thinking of them as important for other than pylon tests. I already know my 3 minute Fire/MA does it in 4 minutes without -res procs so that's my benchmark.

Without overthinking it too much:

700 damage FT with no recharge: 4:20 - 4:23

675 FT with minimal recharge: 3:51 - 4:10

540 FT with Hectacomb: 4:01 - 4:12

No clear answers unfortunately, but about as expected from similar tests in the past.

Full Hectacomb gives a bit more global recharge and accuracy which has its value. It's a 'DPS' option though, but having FT up more often is also nice. When the choice is Frost or Ice Sword it's nice to see FT up.

FT with minimal recharge is the best of both worlds. Having a perfect rotation does not matter as much since Burn messes with it every 7 seconds or so, but still it makes a difference as the testing showed.

FT with no recharge may not have given the best results but in a team setting it might still be the best choice. Anyone with Speedboost, or Accelerated Metabolism, or dropping an Ageless, and suddenly that gap isn't there anymore. It's the best burst with a row of 90% procs waiting to be unleashed:

But overall the difference is minimal. It is the reason I stopped frankenslotting Burn despite the omfg big burst, because with the difference not being large and me exemplaring a lot I prefer to have the attack up more often while garnering the extra global recharge and accuracy.

Testing Frozen Fists didn't show much better results. A quick respec to improve upon it and following FT, Ice Sword, Frozen Fists, Ice Sword:

FT with full Hectacomb = 4:07

FT with minimal recharging= 3:57

Same old. I will prefer to keep Frozen Fists minimally slotted as a mule and keep on doubling Frost for ST and AoE.

With that extra bit of recharge once FT opens the rotation changes to FT, Burn, Ice Sword, Frost, Ice Sword. Use Burn when up but I try to time it to come after FT when Build-up/Fiery Embrace is up. Repeat. Once everything is slotted at maximum level one of the Ice Swords can be removed.

Eventually Frozen Aura opens but it's mediocre in my eyes. I will use it once or twice if surrounded but it's mostly a mule and instead I'll prefer to cleave the pack around the boss via Frost and Burn.

The way I ended up playing it was: approach a pack, but not land in the middle of them because Frost is a cone. Once the mobs wake up from their stupor and rush me then I would BU, Freezing Touch the boss, Frost, Burn, Ice Sword, Fiery Embrace, FT the boss again, and then clean whatever is still up while pumped by FE. In most cases this combo was available next pack. I did it like this because I leveled by soloing all the TFs starting from Posi 1 and 2. Taking longer chewing through +0x6 during Posi and +1x8 from Synapse upwards worked out that way for BU and FE. In a team I would rather go BU for one pack. FE for the next pack. BU for the next. Then have neither for the next but start again afterwards.

In terms of actually playing the game Fire/Ice is as close to Fire/Claws as it gets. It starts early with annihilating AoE then progresses smoothly to FT and obtains a very heavy hitter in the mid levels. In the meanwhile Burn helps being a heavy hitter until FT arrives as well as being a heavy hitter for AoE to support Frost.

This is the level 50 build. It has the same defensive values as my other builds, AKA 40% to Smash/Lethal (45% with Barrier) and 90% resistances to the important stuff (with two ATO stacks and Barrier).

This is my current Fire/Ice. I don't particularly recommend it since not taking Frozen Aura is a peculiar choice. It's just a peculiar choice adapted to my own playstyle though. I have managed to remove Tough so it's one less toggle, one less button on the bar, and Tough's 15% S/L baked into the build. I have managed to squeeze two damage procs into all attacks and the ATO in Frost improves the chance it will go off during normal gameplay.

Cheap level 50. It's nearly identical to the 'min-max expensive build since it has 40% to S/L (45% with Barrier), 87% to S/L/E/N with two stacks of the ATO (over 90% with Barrier's 5% or the third ATO). In fact, all numbers will become better once at 50 and turning all ATOs into their superior versions. Overall if a casual player and not wanting to spend much while getting the full experience this build has the same qualifications as the expensive one, it just has a slower Hasten and Tough actually needs to be toggled up instead of not being used.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.6.0
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- GntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), GntFis-Acc/Dmg(3), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), GntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(13), TchofDth-Dam%(13)
Level 4: Frost -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(17), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(19), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(19), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(21), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(21)
Level 6: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), UnbGrd-Max HP%(25)
Level 8: Healing Flames -- DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(A), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(27), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(27), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), DctWnd-Heal(29)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), Rct-ResDam%(31)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), StdPrt-ResKB(34)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 16: Build Up -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(36), GssSynFr--Build%(36)
Level 18: Burn -- MghoftheT-Rchg/Res%(A), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), MghoftheT-Dmg/Rchg(37), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Erd-%Dam(39), ScrDrv-Dam%(39)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mk'Bit-Dam%(42), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 30: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech(43), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(43), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(43), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(45), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(45)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(45), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(46), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(46), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(47), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(47)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(47), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(49)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

Leveling build with varied tips also.

Spoiler

For the really new players my signature has a ton of information. Those with zero influence may check it as well for money making. I did a zero influence leveling run of Fire/Claws and documented it here.

- Do level with a bunch of Recovery Serums from the P2W vendor since they are super cheap and it is better to save inspirations for things that will help survival. While there and while level 1 purchase eight Amplifiers of each. They cost 1k and will make you a demi-god while they last. It becomes extremely expensive as we go higher in level (something like 1.6 million EACH by level 40) so level 1 is the moment to do it.

- The reason I take Fly so late is because it is smarter to spend 5k and buy a jetpack from the P2W vendor and use it until level 22. The jetpack is no longer as fast as regular Fly since Fly comes with Afterburner, but I would still use this approach. Change things around according to personal desire. A 'Jump Pack' is no longer as useful as it used to be, but it should also be obtained since it is free and worth using since it makes Hover as fast as Fly which is useful during combat and to go from one pack of mobs to the next. Once having obtained Evasive maneuvers this is not really required.

Spoiler

Hover

Hover + one of jump packs

Fly + Evasive Maneuvers

Fly + Evasive Maneuvers + one of the jump packs

Fly + Evasive Maneuvers + Afterburner

Fly + Evasive Maneuvers + one of the jump packs.

Information obtained from Booper's guide.

By level 22 things ought to look something like this:

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.6.0
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- GntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), GntFis-Dmg/Rchg(11), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), GntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- MghoftheT-Rchg/Res%(A), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), MghoftheT-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), GldStr-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(9)
Level 4: Frost -- Empty(A), Empty(5), Empty(5), Empty(7), Empty(7)
Level 6: Hover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 8: Fire Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 10: Healing Flames -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Burn -- Erd-%Dam(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(19), RechRdx-I(19), Dmg-I(21), Dmg-I(21)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

Notice the levels where the slots were placed. It does not have to be gospel but it serves as an outline. Frost is not shown as slotted because Mids does not have the prestige enhancements from the P2W vendor but just use those until level 27.

This is how it should look by level 30.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.6.0
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- GntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), GntFis-Dmg/Rchg(11), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), GntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- MghoftheT-Rchg/Res%(A), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), MghoftheT-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GldStr-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(9)
Level 4: Frost -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(5), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(5), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(7), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(7), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(25)
Level 6: Hover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 8: Fire Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25)
Level 10: Healing Flames -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), AdjTrg-Rchg(17), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(17), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(23)
Level 18: Burn -- Erd-%Dam(A), Obl-Dmg(19), Obl-Acc/Rchg(19), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(21), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Obl-%Dam(23)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 24: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/Rech(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(29)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

This how I slotted as I leveled. Again, notice the slots and when they are placed. From here on think about what you need. Trouble with endurance? Finish slotting your attacks since the set's IOs have endurance reduction baked in. Finishing to slot Consume will also work. Getting hurt? Focus on finishing to slot your shields. It's not complicated but it varies between playstyles so choose what you wish to focus on. I personally lived off Recovery Serums and medium purple inspirations and slotted all my ST and AoE attacks first. Remember Burn has absolute precedence over all else.

As a rule damage procs can wait until later since raw stats will be all around useful (making sure we hit, less endurance costs, etc) so it's valid to replace a damage proc for an acc-damage-endurance-recharge Gladiator's Strike quadruple while leveling, but not really necessary.

Fiery Embrace is a TON of damage so immediately slot it same as Hasten. When all of that is done start slotting Plasma Shield and Fire Shield. This should happen by level 30-40 or so. Until then survive on inspirations. Between missions type /ah and buy medium inspirations (even spending 5k for a medium purple should not be overthought when just doing Positron part one is worth three million in merits). If seeing you are in trouble immediately gobble a couple of them. If seeing a certain type of enemies gives you trouble (Vhaz?) pre-emptively use one before starting the fight. Do not get attached to inspirations, do not try to hoard. They are extremely cheap to purchase and should be used.

Which segues into my last tip. It is always useful to have emergency inspirations. I personally have a row of greens, two rows of purples, and then in the last row I keep two blues, one orange, and one break free. What I do is keep one row free so as I kill enemies they keep dropping random inspirations and I keep on eating them. This is a very useful thing to do as we enter combat with a myriad of different buffs. Do keep the emergency inspirations for, well, emergencies, but keep a row just for random gummy bears.

One row free to eat the random insp drops multiplies the power of any build that is soloing at x8 since, paradoxically, the more mobs we are facing the more inspirations drop and the stronger we get (pseudo Brute like), so it is normal to go around with 1-3 reds, multiple yellows, purples, etc, to the point emergency inspirations are not even needed.

From one pack of mobs:

/bind F1 inspexecname resurgence$$inspexecname dramatic_improvement$$inspexecname respite will eat a green anywhere it might be.

/bind F2 inspexec_slot 2 will use the second row which is the one I use for random inspirations.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Sovera

Sovera · January 31, 2021

I have revisited Fire/Martial Arts. At the time I was a bit eh about it and it slid into obscurity, but re-looking at the previous build it was still the unprocced unrefined starter.

The new build still boasts of 40% defenses (45% with Barrier) to Melee, Ranged and AoE, which is better defensively than just Smash/Lethal defenses since it protects against more sources of damage, incidentally debuff carrying attacks (the recovery debuff from Carnival mobs carries an AoE tag for example).

It still has 90% resistances to most with two ATO stacks and Barrier's 5%. Dragon's Tail is mediocre in terms of damage but the baked in KD works very well with Force Feedback so the original purpose of the pairing remains: accelerate the churning out of Burns. On top of that the constant KD also helps with soft mitigation.

So, how much does it help with soft mitigation? A lot.

I tested against the first map of the Market Crash at +4x8 and my HP never diped from 95%. I felt it was not a great test so I picked a Comic Con to test. In the past I did a DM vs Claws AoE test and Claws had to use heals here and there since their HP kept steadily declining. MA stayed rock solid at 95% - 100%. This was done without Barrier so 40% and relying on the ATO proc to reach 90%.

With all these defensive extras I would like to say Claws has the upper hand in damage... but that is not the case. Two quick tests against pylons left it just shy of three minutes which is the Claws average. In the AoE test Claws ended with seven minutes (no insps, no helper, only using Hybrid assault) while MA ended with... a bit over six. Not a huge difference and not conclusive (random level ups add damage to the test, mobs may decide to swarm or have to be chased, etc), but Dragon Tail's mediocre damage was well compensated by helping drop more mini nuke Burn bombs.

So still a bit better while stronger on the defensive level as well.

I hereby split the Brunker crown from Claws' and place the other half on Martial Arts.

Two downsides only of MA:

- It takes longer to bloom. Slash can have the -res proc at level 4. The third big hitter of Claws comes comes at 28 instead of 35. Follow-up is available at 20 instead of 28. That means under 35 (30 if exemplared) the ST suffers a bit.

- Build-up at 28 slows low leveling more than it needs. Without it Positron and Synapse level range is drab soloing (not that soloing Synapse with MA is viable what with Dragon Tail kicking Clocks away from Burn *shudder*) But barring those three TFs from Yin up my rotation is Storm Kick, Dragon's Tail, Burn, Storm Kick, Crane Kick. Even at max level and in an AoE situation I still only use those skills. It takes being in ST to dust off Crippling Axe Kick, or lower than 35 (30 if exemplared) Thunder Kick.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(7)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), TchofDth-Dam%(15), GldStr-%Dam(15)
Level 4: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(5)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 8: Healing Flames -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(21)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(21), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(25), Ags-ResDam(25), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Ags-Psi/Status(50)
Level 14: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(29), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(29), SynSck-Dam/Rech(31), SynSck-EndMod(31), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(31)
Level 16: Crane Kick -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), TchofDth-Dam%(33), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 18: Burn -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(34), Arm-Dam%(36), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(36), Erd-%Dam(36), Obl-%Dam(37)
Level 20: Dragon's Tail -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(39), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(40)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Focus Chi -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Crippling Axe Kick -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(45), HO:Nucle(45), TchofDth-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(46), AchHee-ResDeb%(46)
Level 38: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(43), UnbGrd-Max HP%(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(47), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------

StriderIV · January 31, 2021

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

I have revisited Fire/Martial Arts. At the time I was a bit eh about it and it slid into obscurity, but re-looking at the previous build it was still the unprocced unrefined starter.

The new build still boasts of 40% defenses (45% with Barrier) to Melee, Ranged and AoE, which is better defensively than just Smash/Lethal defenses since it protects against more sources of damage, incidentally debuff carrying attacks (the recovery debuff from Carnival mobs carries an AoE tag for example).

It still has 90% resistances to most with two ATO stacks and Barrier's 5%. Dragon's Tail is mediocre in terms of damage but the baked in KD works very well with Force Feedback so the original purpose of the pairing remains: accelerate the churning out of Burns. On top of that the constant KD also helps with soft mitigation.

So, how much does it help with soft mitigation? A lot.

I tested against the first map of the Market Crash at +4x8 and my HP never diped from 95%. I felt it was not a great test so I picked a Comic Con to test. In the past I did a DM vs Claws AoE test and Claws had to use heals here and there since their HP kept steadily declining. MA stayed rock solid at 95% - 100%. This was done without Barrier so 40% and relying on the ATO proc to reach 90%.

With all these defensive extras I would like to say Claws has the upper hand in damage... but that is not the case. Two quick tests against pylons left it just shy of three minutes which is the Claws average. In the AoE test Claws ended with seven minutes (no insps, no helper, only using Hybrid assault) while MA ended with... a bit over six. Not a huge difference and not conclusive (random level ups add damage to the test, mobs may decide to swarm or have to be chased, etc), but Dragon Tail's mediocre damage was well compensated by helping drop more mini nuke Burn bombs.

So still a bit better while stronger on the defensive level as well.

I hereby split the Brunker crown from Claws' and place the other half on Martial Arts.

Two downsides only of MA:

- It takes longer to bloom. Slash can have the -res proc at level 4. The third big hitter of Claws comes comes at 28 instead of 35. Follow-up is available at 20 instead of 28. That means under 35 (30 if exemplared) the ST suffers a bit.

- Build-up at 28 slows low leveling more than it needs. Without it Positron and Synapse level range is drab soloing (not that soloing Synapse with MA is viable what with Dragon Tail kicking Clocks away from Burn *shudder*) But barring those three TFs from Yin up my rotation is Storm Kick, Dragon's Tail, Burn, Storm Kick, Crane Kick. Even at max level and in an AoE situation I still only use those skills. It takes being in ST to dust off Crippling Axe Kick, or lower than 35 (30 if exemplared) Thunder Kick.

Reveal hidden contents

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(7)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), TchofDth-Dam%(15), GldStr-%Dam(15)
Level 4: Fire Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(5)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 8: Healing Flames -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(21)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(21), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(25), Ags-ResDam(25), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Ags-Psi/Status(50)
Level 14: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(29), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(29), SynSck-Dam/Rech(31), SynSck-EndMod(31), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(31)
Level 16: Crane Kick -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), TchofDth-Dam%(33), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 18: Burn -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(34), Arm-Dam%(36), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(36), Erd-%Dam(36), Obl-%Dam(37)
Level 20: Dragon's Tail -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(39), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 22: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), WntGif-ResSlow(40)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Focus Chi -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Crippling Axe Kick -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(45), HO:Nucle(45), TchofDth-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(46), AchHee-ResDeb%(46)
Level 38: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(43), UnbGrd-Max HP%(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(47), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------

You know, I never thought of this combo. MA has always been a set I loved (had an MA Scrapper back on live), but they hate has always been it’s lack of AOE. Fire would seem to solve that issue. I also here MA is pretty decent on tankers and brutes following some of its changes.

Sovera · January 31, 2021

To add to the previous thread I was testing the Fire/MA when @Monos Kingrandomly sent a whisper to try their PvP build. We struck off, he struck me (blasted my poor MA to bits with his Dark Melee/Rad Armor Scrapper :D) and then he mentioned he had a +4 AV mission he tested his characters and we went to take a look.

- Positron was a no go. Between his Overload giving him immunity to damage and his incredible debuffs he wiped the floor with us. When Monos had him near death he would Overload and with me he'd eventually get lucky and hit past my defenses and debuff me to the bottom while also killing my recharge.

- ~~Marauder~~ BaBs was a slow go. Could have take him but it was so... very... slow... that I gave up. Didn't hurt back.

- Sunburst was slow as well and also did defense debuffs but went okay since I had the resistances to back me up, didn't really hurt but it was hard to tell since BaB was still agroed and I was tanking both, but not a problem.

- Some Tsoo AV was torn to pieces. Poor guy.

- Now the real piece de resistance: Fire Armor is weak against Psi, right? Well, Monos had both Praetorian Aurora and Lamashku from the Talos of Vengeance in his mission, both dealing psi... and they did not hurt. 45% to range and AoE was enough despite the lack of psi resistances (36% with one stack, 42% with two, 47% with Barrier, 53% with a third stack). They got whittled down.

- Ghost Widow was a no go for the obvious reasons. Everything would be okay until she used her hold.

- Miss Liberty was melting when Monos mentioned the AI was borked and she was not using her buff. I backed away and she remembered about it. Did some -heavy- damage when she buffed up even through 90% resists. Beating her was a bit on the luck side as she whiffed with me well into the yellow and my heal on CD.

- Aeon and his army just immediately debuffed me and killed me. When we went in together we got it with me keeping his army busy and on their butts with Dragon Tail.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Sovera

Sovera · February 4, 2021

Holy crap I found my new baby and it's Fire/Ma. But lets start from the beginning.

I first tested a Shield/EM...

Spoiler

...and it was so boring... so slow... But, with amplifiers bought at level one per usual, it boasted of 37% defense so it was plenty sturdy.

...and yet it did not boast of less deaths than other characters since it took so long to go through a pack of mobs that they had more time to whittle me down. Not having a heal or endurance recovery was not a big problem. I just used Recovery Serum when my bar got low and then used that time to collect blue insps. When Recovery Serum entered cooldown I would live off those blue insps.

The damage was a problem though. I found myself in the bad old days of waiting for things to finish recharging and using EM's mediocre AoE to whittle things down. I had high hopes for Against All Odds to act as a mini Fury but though its effects were kinda there and I'm sure it made each pack go down a few seconds faster it just never felt like a big boost.

This is partly because I didn't have Energy Punch to fill the gaps though but I had no room for it in the low levels.

Seriously though, slow and boring. It felt bad to return to the old ways of carefully look over a pack to see if a hostage was hiding there and then avoid it at seeing it was not. Tab target, pick something that had more HP, use Total Focus (the build's champ), slowly get there. How slowly? Well, my amplifiers ran out just before Synapse was finished. That means it took me about 7 hours to run Posi 1, Posi 2 and Synapse o_O

The breaking point was forcing myself to finish Synapse just so I could test Shield Charge. I remember not being impressed by it back when I had a Stalker, but it was those early days with lazy slotting. Slotted as I had it Shield Charge had three damage procs that would go off with 90% chance plus good numbers (for a leveling build).

... and it didn't even kill +1 minions, even with three damage procs at 90% and backed with BU + Gaussian + Against all Odds.

Note, this is the view point of someone soloing. Someone engaged in a team would care less about damage when their team mates are helping, and more about being nearly softcapped at level 22 making them pretty sturdy and tanky even in the low levels which is not something the common Tanker can boast of.

I was spent after that slog, but today I made the Fire/MA since it tested so well at max level. But what about leveling? Well, it takes the crown as Brunker. Claws, step aside, you're past history.

Spoiler

I went into Posi 1 as usual at +0x6 and immediately noticed that the enemies were simply not hurting me. 25% defense to Melee/ Ranged/AoE (with amplifiers bought at level 1) explained that partly, but the real reason was how fantastic the pairing is.

Run into the pack of enemies, Storm Kick to get the defense and resistance from the Tanker proc, drop Burn, drop Dragon's Tail. Burn starts killing mobs and Dragon Tail activates the recharge proc quite reliable and puts everyone on their butts. I was surveying my recharge and it was being constantly boosted even as low as Posi 1!

The KD from Dragon's Tail was -very- felt with the time spent falling and getting up buying precious seconds. Crane Kick helped bumping the recharge and added more soft CC with more KDs.

By mission 2 I had cranked the difficulty to x8 and was mowing through enemies. No more cherry picking anything. just see bundles of XP grouped and jump in to be a dervish of destruction as it should be.

Best part? I wasn't even using inspirations. The added recharge sped up all my important CDs so I barely needed Recovery Serum and could see just a few slots more in it would have been enough to have it back up before my endurance ran out.

The damage? Stupendous. Burn cranks it up, but MA by itself is no slouch and even barely slotted the recharge gaps were minimum.

I ended up having to use some inspirations at the usual places (too many ghosts debuffing accuracy making me run and eat greens. Some Luminous and CoT mages debuffing defense into the negatives) but considering I had bumped it to x8? Superb handling. Also, a very rare no deaths Posi 1.

MA not having Build-up early made me a bit eeh and how it would slow things down, but no, not really. To give an idea this is what I was slotted with as I brag about the damage:

In summary Claws is dethroned and I'll change the OP to reflect this as well as adding a leveling build.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Sovera

Arcadian-Prime · February 4, 2021

7 hours ago, Sovera said:

Holy crap I found my new baby and it's Fire/Ma. But lets start from the beginning.

I first tested a Shield/EM...

Reveal hidden contents

...and it was so boring... so slow... But, with amplifiers bought at level one per usual, it boasted of 37% defense so it was plenty sturdy.

...and yet it did not boast of less deaths than other characters since it took so long to go through a pack of mobs that they had more time to whittle me down. Not having a heal or endurance recovery was not a big problem. I just used Recovery Serum when my bar got low and then used that time to collect blue insps. When Recovery Serum entered cooldown I would live off those blue insps.

The damage was a problem though. I found myself in the bad old days of waiting for things to finish recharging and using EM's mediocre AoE to whittle things down. I had high hopes for Against All Odds to act as a mini Fury but though its effects were kinda there and I'm sure it made each pack go down a few seconds faster it just never felt like a big boost.

This is partly because I didn't have Energy Punch to fill the gaps though but I had no room for it in the low levels.

Seriously though, slow and boring. It felt bad to return to the old ways of carefully look over a pack to see if a hostage was hiding there and then avoid it at seeing it was not. Tab target, pick something that had more HP, use Total Focus (the build's champ), slowly get there. How slowly? Well, my amplifiers ran out just before Synapse was finished. That means it took me about 7 hours to run Posi 1, Posi 2 and Synapse o_O

The breaking point was forcing myself to finish Synapse just so I could test Shield Charge. I remember not being impressed by it back when I had a Stalker, but it was those early days with lazy slotting. Slotted as I had it Shield Charge had three damage procs that would go off with 90% chance plus good numbers (for a leveling build).

... and it didn't even kill +1 minions, even with three damage procs at 90% and backed with BU + Gaussian + Against all Odds.

Note, this is the view point of someone soloing. Someone engaged in a team would care less about damage when their team mates are helping, and more about being nearly softcapped at level 22 making them pretty sturdy and tanky even in the low levels which is not something the common Tanker can boast of.

I was spent after that slog, but today I made the Fire/MA since it tested so well at max level. But what about leveling? Well, it takes the crown as Brunker. Claws, step aside, you're past history.

Reveal hidden contents

I went into Posi 1 as usual at +0x6 and immediately noticed that the enemies were simply not hurting me. 25% defense to Melee/ Ranged/AoE (with amplifiers bought at level 1) explained that partly, but the real reason was how fantastic the pairing is.

Run into the pack of enemies, Storm Kick to get the defense and resistance from the Tanker proc, drop Burn, drop Dragon's Tail. Burn starts killing mobs and Dragon Tail activates the recharge proc quite reliable and puts everyone on their butts. I was surveying my recharge and it was being constantly boosted even as low as Posi 1!

The KD from Dragon's Tail was -very- felt with the time spent falling and getting up buying precious seconds. Crane Kick helped bumping the recharge and added more soft CC with more KDs.

By mission 2 I had cranked the difficulty to x8 and was mowing through enemies. No more cherry picking anything. just see bundles of XP grouped and jump in to be a dervish of destruction as it should be.

Best part? I wasn't even using inspirations. The added recharge sped up all my important CDs so I barely needed Recovery Serum and could see just a few slots more in it would have been enough to have it back up before my endurance ran out.

The damage? Stupendous. Burn cranks it up, but MA by itself is no slouch and even barely slotted the recharge gaps were minimum.

I ended up having to use some inspirations at the usual places (too many ghosts debuffing accuracy making me run and eat greens. Some Luminous debuffing acc into the negatives) but considering I had bumped it to x8? Superb handling. Also, a very rare no deaths Posi 1.

MA not having Build-up early made me a bit eeh and how will slow things down, but no, not really. To give an idea this is what I was slotted with as I brag about the damage:

In summary Claws is dethroned and I'll change the OP to reflect this as well as adding a leveling build.

Haha hey man just curious, what do you mean by “bunker”? Do you feel Fire/MA is the strongest Fire tank build?

Sovera · February 4, 2021

1 hour ago, ArcadianIV said:

Haha hey man just curious, what do you mean by “bunker”? Do you feel Fire/MA is the strongest Fire tank build?

Originally the term was Scranker which was a mix of Scrapper and Tanker. I've since coined Brunker, Brute and Tanker (also bunker, yes). Do as much damage as possible without hindering survival.

I'm going to ramble through the post since it explains things for new players who may find this.

Spoiler

If I just wanted top damage I would ignore recharge, slot all attacks with a lot of procs and mostly ignore defenses in order to maximize the output and then rely on 'minimal' defensive measures (like reaching 90% to all resistances in this case).

The opposite side is maximizing defenses. This can be seen in the august emperor, Invulnerability, who can tank anything in the game, even psi, and keep on trucking. Or Shield, the now close second who also tanks everything (the build I was following had 45% to melee/Range/AoE as well as 90% resists to most (important) things). But on the other hand they kill -slowly-.

My characters aim for the goal of just 'surviving enough'. Lets say I have a budget of 100 points to spend. I put 80 points in defense and 20 in offense. But if a fight only needs 50 points to be survivable then anything extra in that budget spent in survival goes to waste. I could have used those extra points in damage.

Damage is important. We like to hit things and them keeling over. It speeds things up if we happen to be soloing or split from the party even if not more than be in one corner of the room whittling a boss while the team is on the other corner. Even a Defender is recommended to take their attacks and slot them, and use them, to help speed things up and a Tanker is no different. There is also the indirect function of helping to survive if we kill faster.

I find that most of the game works on that 50 points approach. Some parts do not, but they are not widespread. An Imperious TF can easily kill a Fire Armor (and Radiation Armor, and, in fact, many Tankers if they don't have defense debuff protection. Yes, even resistance based tanks die if their defense is debuffed enough (every enemy has minimum 50% chance of hitting us. As our defense is debuffed this increases and from 50% - half the attacks missing - they suddenly hit with every attack. Not even 90% resistance to damage helps with this)).

It is not uncommon to see Tanker players preferring to to aim towards total and complete immunity to damage. 80 points in defense? Heck, lets go for 90! The team can kill, our task is to survive and take agro.

This is fine. It's a valid approach. It's just not mine.

With a '50 point' approach I've taken my Fire Armor characters solo through the ITF, no deaths, no inspirations, enemies buffed, +4x8 (I did die at the last boss when I got stunned and one shot but that was player error). And while that is not the hardest possible content it still is damn hard content, on a squishy Fire Armor, who on top of it is aiming to maximize damage instead of going full defense.

So the approach works.

As for the second question, oh heck yeah 😄 Martial Arts is an okay set. Not too fancy, not too flamboyant. It does two things though. One is adding a flat 10% to all defenses (non stackable) when we use Storm Kick. The other is two reliable and early knockdowns. With a Force Feedback in each we can push recharge, and recharge boosts survival. Healing Flames comes up more often, Consume comes up more often, Build-Up, Fiery embrace. Most importantly a maximized damage Burn has no recharge so it drinks up all that extra recharge we toss in with the FF procs.

So while it's not super fancy it's actually turbo charging the build. More Build-Ups, more Burns., it all equals more damage which is how it catches up to better damaging sets.

Then those 10% defenses can be leveraged with some exotic slotting to reach 45% and then even psi attackers, or recharge debuffing enemies, need to get past that to hit in the first place.

It's by no means an immortal build. Without defense debuff resistance those 45% defense can be stripped fast, and due to the fancy slotting there is just a token 35% recharge debuff resistance, but, the 90% resistances to the important damage is there, and the extra damage means killing stuff fast.

But, and this is important to me, the build starts early. Running Positron part one and melting enemies that are usually my bane (Fire Armor has terrible toxic resistances and it is too low a TF to have enough recharge to spam my heal, both for the heal and for the toxic resistance it brings). Then at max level and still get just 30 seconds slower than -the- current ST beast that is Energy Melee with the pylon test -and- faster AoE than Claws (addendum: my Claws does not use Shockwave. If I did it would do the same turbo acceleration and also help survival with KD. But I don't have infinite slots).

Edited February 5, 2021 by Sovera

Sovera · February 9, 2021

Replaced the OP with a spruced up version of the new Brunker champion. Fare thee well, Claws.

Bill Z Bubba · February 9, 2021

13 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Replaced the OP with a spruced up version of the new Brunker champion. Fare thee well, Claws.

You make me sad. But I get it.

Sovera · February 9, 2021

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

You make me sad. But I get it.

I love me Claws. Best thing ever. But the Brunker title demands the best all rounder that fits it. And MA it is.

(IMO)

Bill Z Bubba · February 9, 2021

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

I love me Claws. Best thing ever. But the Brunker title demands the best all rounder that fits it. And MA it is.

(IMO)

Facts is facts.

Sovera · February 12, 2021

@Bopper, I invoke you again.

Without a DPS meter to help I am forced to rely on math and you're our current guru.

I was testing the different Interfaces and found very little difference between them their two T4 versions versus a pylon. Degenerative 25% HP debuff or 75%, a wash. Reactive 25% chance for resist or 75%, same. I was expecting the DoT chance to make more of an impact when it has 75% chance of going off but this has not been the case so far.

Now CoH is a fickle game to get any empirical testing done since the chance for missing messes things. The way around it is doing extensive testing, something like a hundred tests at least, but even then randomness is involved if the test is something like clearing a map since mobs may flock to us or spread out, etc.

One versus the other (instead of the same but choosing left or right side T4) it did surprise me that on a pylon test the Degenerative 75% was only slightly better than Reactive 25% chance for -resist (I know this doesn't apply to AVs since they resist the already small -res numbers of Reactive but please correct me if I say something wrong). At the time I ass-umed it was because the 'medium fire DoT' played well and brute forced things.

But I recently did a test on a farming map and there was almost no difference between Degenerative 75% chance for -HP and Reactive 25%. It seemed to me that the shaved HP and a minor DoT on lower HP mobs such as lieutenants and bosses would make much less impact that the 'medium DoT' and -res, even though it is known the -res proc is pretty small.

After testing on a farming map I expected Reactive to take a comfortable lead, both for the 'bigger' damage from the Dot and the -res, but they ended so close together. Of course this is difficult to test without more instances being ran.

As I recall Reactive is -2.5% stacking 8 times, correct?

Things I've tested:

- Reactive's DoT does 10.7 base on my build.

- Reactive's DoT is not affected by damage buffs such as reds or Assault.

- Reactive's DoT IS affected by -res. It went to 10.97 under it's own -res. 12.84 under its own (I assume) -res and Achilles. It reached 14.98 under Achilles, Fury of the Gladiator and, I assume, it's own -res.

- Degenerative hit for 8.56 under its own power.

- 10.27 with Achilles -res

- 11.98 with both.

You're quite correct that these numbers are so low as to be inconsequential. With the DoT being so low it is better to maximize the chances of the effect we are after, be it -HP or -res. With all the damage procs in my usual builds the -res seems to take the lead for usefulness, but after having run the farm map with near identical numbers it seems like the -HP has more of an impact on lower level mobs than I thought making it viable for general play.

Bopper · February 12, 2021

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

@Bopper, I invoke you again.

Without a DPS meter to help I am forced to rely on math and you're our current guru.

I was testing the different Interfaces and found very little difference between them their two T4 versions versus a pylon. Degenerative 25% HP debuff or 75%, a wash. Reactive 25% chance for resist or 75%, same. I was expecting the DoT chance to make more of an impact when it has 75% chance of going off but this has not been the case so far.

Now CoH is a fickle game to get any empirical testing done since the chance for missing messes things. The way around it is doing extensive testing, something like a hundred tests at least, but even then randomness is involved if the test is something like clearing a map since mobs may flock to us or spread out, etc.

One versus the other (instead of the same but choosing left or right side T4) it did surprise me that on a pylon test the Degenerative 75% was only slightly better than Reactive 25% chance for -resist (I know this doesn't apply to AVs since they resist the already small -res numbers of Reactive but please correct me if I say something wrong). At the time I ass-umed it was because the 'medium fire DoT' played well and brute forced things.

But I recently did a test on a farming map and there was almost no difference between Degenerative 75% chance for -HP and Reactive 25%. It seemed to me that the shaved HP and a minor DoT on lower HP mobs such as lieutenants and bosses would make much less impact that the 'medium DoT' and -res, even though it is known the -res proc is pretty small.

After testing on a farming map I expected Reactive to take a comfortable lead, both for the 'bigger' damage from the Dot and the -res, but they ended so close together. Of course this is difficult to test without more instances being ran.

As I recall Reactive is -2.5% stacking 8 times, correct?

Things I've tested:

- Reactive's DoT does 10.7 base on my build.

- Reactive's DoT is not affected by damage buffs such as reds or Assault.

- Reactive's DoT IS affected by -res. It went to 10.97 under it's own -res. 12.84 under its own (I assume) -res and Achilles. It reached 14.98 under Achilles, Fury of the Gladiator and, I assume, it's own -res.

- Degenerative hit for 8.56 under its own power.

- 10.27 with Achilles -res

- 11.98 with both.

You're quite correct that these numbers are so low as to be inconsequential. With the DoT being so low it is better to maximize the chances of the effect we are after, be it -HP or -res. With all the damage procs in my usual builds the -res seems to take the lead for usefulness, but after having run the farm map with near identical numbers it seems like the -HP has more of an impact on lower level mobs than I thought making it viable for general play.

Your playtesting experience is similar to my own. I tested Degenerative Core and Radial as well as Reactive Radial and I did not see much of a difference with pylon times. I never tested it in farms, though. As you noticed, Reactive's DoT is 25% more base damage than Degenerative's DoT and the -resistance that can come from Reactive will boost the effects of the DoTs (the first tick might not get the benefit but subsequent ticks will get it). Degenerative is powerful for both its burst and sustained DPS. The debuffs are quite effective early on, essentially removing 3.5% of the target's HP until it caps at 4 stacks. Even in long AV fights, that's useful as the sustained lowered max HP acts as lowered HP/sec which translates to effective DPS. Keep in mind, that debuff is diminishing returns as it works off the current maxHP everytime it's applied. So you'll lower the target's HP to 96.5% the 1st time, then 96.5% of that 96.5% the 2nd time, 96.5%^3 the 3rd time and 96.5%^4 the 4th time. So it settles out around 86.72% at its saturation point (this likely will fluctuate as the probability of how many active stacks at the time of a new stack will fluctuate). Still, that's roughly 13% of a targets HP removed for free and the benefits of the lowered regeneration over time.

Other things to factor in, Toxic damage is the most commonly resisted damage type in the game while Fire damage is the least commonly resisted damage type (point for Reactive). So when all is said and done, these two will land fairly close in performance. They clearly are the top 2 interface procs for DPS. And the faster your attacks animate, the better as you can add more stacks more quickly and sustain higher stack counts for botht he debuff and DoT.

Bill Z Bubba · February 12, 2021

I went ma/elec brute cuz I had neither. Turns out, this is the only electric using anything I've got. Cept for 1 Tarikoff TF, been 100% solo runnin redside content. No PL. Hit 26. Pretty fun so far. No clue how she'll end up.

Sovera · February 12, 2021

6 hours ago, Bopper said:

Your playtesting experience is similar to my own. I tested Degenerative Core and Radial as well as Reactive Radial and I did not see much of a difference with pylon times. I never tested it in farms, though. As you noticed, Reactive's DoT is 25% more base damage than Degenerative's DoT and the -resistance that can come from Reactive will boost the effects of the DoTs (the first tick might not get the benefit but subsequent ticks will get it). Degenerative is powerful for both its burst and sustained DPS. The debuffs are quite effective early on, essentially removing 3.5% of the target's HP until it caps at 4 stacks. Even in long AV fights, that's useful as the sustained lowered max HP acts as lowered HP/sec which translates to effective DPS. Keep in mind, that debuff is diminishing returns as it works off the current maxHP everytime it's applied. So you'll lower the target's HP to 96.5% the 1st time, then 96.5% of that 96.5% the 2nd time, 96.5%^3 the 3rd time and 96.5%^4 the 4th time. So it settles out around 86.72% at its saturation point (this likely will fluctuate as the probability of how many active stacks at the time of a new stack will fluctuate). Still, that's roughly 13% of a targets HP removed for free and the benefits of the lowered regeneration over time.

Other things to factor in, Toxic damage is the most commonly resisted damage type in the game while Fire damage is the least commonly resisted damage type (point for Reactive). So when all is said and done, these two will land fairly close in performance. They clearly are the top 2 interface procs for DPS. And the faster your attacks animate, the better as you can add more stacks more quickly and sustain higher stack counts for botht he debuff and DoT.

I have re-done the tests with more attention to start with Interface and Hasten recharged. A simple one time test. Not the best but sufficient for my purposes.

No inspirations, only Hybrid Assault use on CD:

7:20 - Degenerative 75% chance for -HP.
7:20 - Reactive 75% chance for -res
6:20 - Reactive 75% chance for DoT.
6;25 - Reactive 75% DoT + Double Hit Hybrid assault.

I guess I shouldn't poo poo on the DoT? Though we don't spend 6-7 minutes hitting anything in the game and when/if we do it's an AV.

Just like the Fire/Claws test both doublehit and +damage Hybrids ended being a wash. I might just go for doublehit on the rare occasion I play with a Kin.

I should probably test against an AV to see the difference between Reactive 75% DoT and Degenerative 75% -HP since a pylon does not serve for this in particular.

Found an AE mission with Mako and used him as a test subject. Not the best since he keeps on Placating, but it will have to do. Wailed on the guy for 5 minutes and got:

23.5 out of 30.6k with Reactive 75% DoT
16.3 out of 30.6k with Degenerative 75% -HP

22k out of 39.6k without interface slotted.

...Yeah, it's a large difference against AVs to the point of the -res and DoT being pretty much nullified as the 'no interface' run showed.

What about running the farm map with no Interface? Not that farming is an important metric but it somewhat measures 'normal' gameplay versus lower HP mobs.

7:20

7:25

...

Game, y u do dis to me?

Okay, apparently the effect of Reactive and Degenerative is negligible outside of big HP pools and the DoT impacts more. I guess? I don't even anymore.

Sovera · February 15, 2021

Another round of testing since something had been nagging me since the last test.

I'm going to abandon the proc heavy approach *shock* at least for this build.

Yeah, testing shows I'm getting about the same numbers with and without. Where the powers are heavy nukes with the proc approach I am still getting the same results simply by firing them more often. This runs a bit counter with the testing with Fire/Claws but I'm not one to argue with testing.

Testing on pylons I had:

- 3:05

- 2:58

- 3:20

This makes the damage no better, but also no worse. It does bring QoL to the build where powers are both more seamless at higher level .

For example the 'normal rotation for 95% of the game ended up being Burn, Dragon Tail, Crippling Axe Kick, Crane Kick, Storm Kick. Repeat. All the things a body needs with the +FF proc in Crane kick, the -res in Crippling and the defense/+res in Storm kick having a place. For things with more HP it ended up being Burn, Crippling, Crane, Storm Kick. Less Storm Kicks helped closing the gap in damage from the loss of the procs.

But the non proc slotting also helped at lower levels if exemplaring when I did a quick solo Posi 1 for testing. The extra 30% acc is of no particular use but the extra 20% is pretty good on a build that is already pretty recharge oriented and then Burn comes back much more often with it slotted for recharge. It's no longer that mini nuke that immediately downs 3-4 minions, but the result ends being the same.

Testing with a farm map (not because farming is an important goal but it serves as a metric just like pylons do) shows the numbers remain the same pre/post procs as well.

The interesting find that Interface seems to have very little effect in the open world remains with the new slotting. The change to non proc slotting altered little in the 7:20-ish Degenerative/no Interface slotted and 6.30-ish Reactive 75% DoT.

If someone else wishes to test this with their own build please let me know the findings. The only 'rule' is not using inspirations (Hybrid Assault on cooldown) and then test the different Interfaces and let me/us know the results. Because, damn, it seems pretty weird that no Interface slotted gets the same results as Interface slotted. And only Reactive 75% DoT chance actually makes a measurable difference. Albeit a small one since it takes six minutes to shave one minute.

I'm thinking it has to do with the small health pools. Take Degenerative, for example. Does it matter if it shaves 13% HP off if we still need to do one last hit anyway that would hit for 20%? Be the HP at 20% or a 7% (from the shaved HP) the last hit is still needed. The same applies with the10%-ish -res that Reactive has. Does it matter if our hits did 20-30 points more damage if it still needs one last hit to kill that would include the 20-30 points? Empirical testing seems to say yes, and empirical is the best.

Bopper could do more with his penchant for maths but just basing myself in practical testing I see two ways to approach the Interface angle:

1 - Reactive still shows a difference. Since Degenerative is so common then stick with Reactive and it will help a little bit with clearing maps which is 97% of CoH's game. Since someone else is bound to have Degenerative as long as players are teamed up someone else will put the stacks on the AV.

2 - Reactive's difference is pretty minimal. It takes six minutes of agro saturation non stop pounding enemies to shave one minute off. Most of CoH's game is not played at agro saturation and there is plenty of downtime jumping between packs of enemies. This stretches the benefit. In practical terms something like 30 minutes of regular playing might see it being done 5 minutes earlier.

3 - Degenerative sees little effect in lower HP mobs to the point of not being noticeable. They die too fast, and the real benefit which is cutting down on the regeneration is of no consequence when enemies die fast. But it makes a large difference against an AV who completely negates Reactive's benefits. Maybe -you- are the one bringing Degenerative so someone else has Reactive. And if you are a person that solos then this is a given to help with the AVs.

So it boils down to:

- Reactive helps a little bit with maping, but has no effect on AVs (probably GMs too).

- Degenerative has no effects in maps but helps with AVs/GMs.

Make your decision based on this.

I'll throw the changed build to the OP.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Sovera

Sovera · February 17, 2021

Just monologuing here, but after testing in the lower levels the non proc version meshes well with Burn. Sadly pressing Burn is no longer that deeply satisfying affair of insta-killing 3-4 minions, but recharging faster makes it do the same.

My next testing is the worth of -res procs. Considering the minimal effect that the -res Interface had in the 'real world' and how badly it then performed against an AV I'm now curious at how well, or how badly, the -res procs actually behave in real world testing. On the other hand they are more substantial than the 10-12% of Reactive at 20% x2.

They have become a staple of the 1% builds because the testing for them revolves around pylon bashing who do not resist -res effects. If normal mobs don't show a good effect then AVs are bound to severely neuter them as well, which leads back to the simpler affair of slotting damage procs instead.

It does seem counter to regular testing, but again, that testing is done on pylons who do not resist -res. That means for a pylon the -res will always be better, but for normal mobs a damage proc may well perform the same, and then give better results on an AV.

Regardless actual testing is better than just pondering or gut feelings.

Sovera · February 18, 2021

Quick and dirty test replacing the -res in Burn and Crippling Axe Kick.

- One run of the comic map with Degenerative netted about the same time between 7:20 and 7:30.

- A single run against Mako for 5 minutes: 15k out of 30.6k

So basically it seems to be a wash. But it was only one run.

There was a small gain over an AV but CoH is a pretty terrible game to test things thanks to the 5% chance of missing that can happen on the important powers (missing with Burn is certainly a lot worse than missing on Storm Kick). Still, that was one extra 1.3k which says that at worst its a wash, at best a small gain. Furthermore Burn skews things since it -loves- procs. Two damage procs skews the damage more than a -res proc since what dies just dies and does not need to be debuffed. And this does not include how two damage procs in Burn gives more burst to kill things faster.

Looking at the map run the times were about the same but in normal non agro saturation play it is better to down mobs with burst so that they don't have extra seconds to debuff (romans, I'm looking at you) or even hurt back (Vahz, we hate you).

What it does seem to indicate is that on a pylon, and looking at past times, a -res bettered the times by as much as 40 seconds. In this case it worsened the times or did not improve them. We slot -res procs despite that they do not stack (two players using a Fury of the Gladiator -res does not mean two -20%) to help killing hard mobs, but hard mobs are AVs and GMs and they resist the effect we are seeking.

In the end we have a whole school of thought revolving builds tailored to pylons and their quirks but we are not facing pylons when we go out and play.

Parabola · February 18, 2021

12 hours ago, Sovera said:

They have become a staple of the 1% builds because the testing for them revolves around pylon bashing who do not resist -res effects. If normal mobs don't show a good effect then AVs are bound to severely neuter them as well, which leads back to the simpler affair of slotting damage procs instead.

Was going to reply the other day to say this thread has inspired me to roll a fire/ma tank and I'm enjoying him immensely. It's a great combo mechanically but probably the best thing is how stylish it is. Kicking people while wreathed in flames does not get old.

Interesting results in your recent posts with the procs vs recharge slotting and the interface stuff. As you say coh is difficult to test with any degree of accuracy due to the randomness built in. I also completely agree that we do tend to focus on what works against a pylon to the exclusion of the 'real' game simply because they are easy to test against.

One thing about these -res proc results though, I thought they caused the target to cast a -res effect on themselves which bypassed resistance? Is that an outdated understanding of the mechanics?

Sovera · February 18, 2021

1 minute ago, parabola said:

Was going to reply the other day to say this thread has inspired me to roll a fire/ma tank and I'm enjoying him immensely. It's a great combo mechanically but probably the best thing is how stylish it is. Kicking people while wreathed in flames does not get old.

Interesting results in your recent posts with the procs vs recharge slotting and the interface stuff. As you say coh is difficult to test with any degree of accuracy due to the randomness built in. I also completely agree that we do tend to focus on what works against a pylon to the exclusion of the 'real' game simply because they are easy to test against.

One thing about these -res proc results though, I thought they caused the target to cast a -res effect on themselves which bypassed resistance? Is that an outdated understanding of the mechanics?

That is exactly how it works in terms of applying the -res debuff. That's why they don't stack and the usefulness is dubious in big teams. All it takes is one person having the -res procs for the other seven to have theirs obsolete. Except in terms of keeping it up. While a damage proc will just do damage, period.

I don't think the -res procs bypass resistance resists. It is the first time I have heard of this and the simple test versus an AV seems to indicate this is not the case because otherwise a mere regular damage proc would not have kept up with -40% res from both procs. On a pylon the -res proc swings the end result noticeably.

I don't know how much of the -res remains once it goes through the +3 level shift and then the AV's resistance resistances, but a case can be made that even if only 5% (random number) goes through it's still 5% for the whole team wailing on it.

But the testing on normal mobs does not seem to influence things much mostly because it is not a matter of removing the proc and leave the power with nothing, but of swapping the -res for a damage proc, and the damage proc seems to keep up handily.

Parabola · February 18, 2021

8 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I don't think the -res procs bypass resistance resists. It is the first time I have heard of this and the simple test versus an AV seems to indicate this is not the case because otherwise a mere regular damage proc would not have kept up with -40% res from both procs.

I couldn't tell you where I got this from, I may have misunderstood what I was reading! As you say they certainly don't stack from multiple applications so if they are resisted there seems little point to them overall.

Sovera · February 18, 2021

53 minutes ago, parabola said:

I couldn't tell you where I got this from, I may have misunderstood what I was reading! As you say they certainly don't stack from multiple applications so if they are resisted there seems little point to them overall.

It's surprising they don't seem to have a big effect on normal mobs compared to regular damage procs. It is as you say that the point in slotting them seems low unless more testing with different ATs and power sets changes results.

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