'Tough Enough' - Tanking Theory

[VV]

This is something I look at a lot, which is why I can't seem to move off my F3 tank. I don't see the point of giving up her damage for an overkill on "toughness". Resists in the 65-70+ range, S/L 90, Defs at about 20-30. And a nice heal. That seems to be plenty for most anything. I mean, tanking Recluse on a bad team could go badly, but other than that, I haven't really run into much of anything she can't handle. 

[marcussmythe]

Thats an interesting point, VV - You got there with set bonuses on a Fire Tank, I got to damage by eschewing set bonuses (for procs) on an Invuln Tank.  Interesting how it converges!

[Gobbledigook]

The secondary choice will impact survival a fair bit also. Attacks with a lot of Knockdown or +defence for example will help to mitigate a lot of damage.

 

I am not sure what the best secondary would be to help mitigate damage....stone melee?

[marcussmythe]

Depends on the rest of your plan?  Im wondering if Axe (KB!) is an underloved choice, since KB works so well.  Or MA for the DEF?  Or DM for the heal and  -ACC?

[Gobbledigook]

Picking the right secondary can make the squishier armour sets more survivable. 

 

A secondary with CC or +Def  etc will certainly help sets like fire armour more than fire melee for example.

 

Some of these sets with more CC can actually do as much or more damage than fire melee with io's whilst boosting survival.

[Xanatos]

On 6/15/2020 at 10:31 PM, Infinitum said:

Nonsense, Curbs > Granite

 

1. Shield Invul or Rad

2. Elec Armor or SR

3. Everything else

1. Bio

2. Rad

3. Everything else.

4. Fire

 

Although in practice every tanker primary is pretty much good enough to tank anything if you slot/play it well.

[Katharos]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:00 AM, marcussmythe said:

What if I take Fire, infamous as the 'squishy, high damage' tank - and run a survival IO build to push that squishy up to 'tough enough for any reasonable fact pattern' (with incarnate layering for those times I have to do the Real Tough Tanking) - or run a proc/fun IO and fun pool powers build, leaning into the headroom vs Brute/Scrapper cousins given by larger base values to go get 'other stuff', and plan on still being tough enough?  At the end of the day, can I still be *tough enough* while having burn?  Can I be *tough enough* with incarnates and IOs to handle TF Tanking (while still having burn)?  Can I lean into damage increasing tricks and fun toys for my solo experience, while still being tough enough for solo life (and still, yannnowwww... having burn)?

I guess I'm coming into this a bit late, but a few weeks ago I decided it was time to stop being coy about fiery aura and give it a real chance. I ran with fiery aura/dark melee because I felt like the concept was strong and I felt like there would be chemistry. Fiery aura's burn makes up for dark melee's AoE deficit, and dark melee's -tohit would fill in for some of fiery aura's squishiness. I felt like soul drain and burn would compliment each other. I suspected siphon life's healing would make up for how weak healing flames feels, both in healing power and in recharge. I knew fire and negative damage are among the least resisted and least defended against in the game, so I thought that'd give me a bit of an edge.

 

I threw a build together. For resist sets, I normally try to softcap s/l def on top of hardcapped s/l res, but I realised that the slotting on fiery aura was weirdly... Flexible. Yeah, that's the word. There's a lot of slotting variety in fiery aura: it offers resists, healing, a pbaoe, and an endmod set. I thought it'd be worth playing around with that flexibility to see how much I could get away with without totally abandoning the things that makes the sets cool. AKA, I wanted more than three attacks from my secondary, and I wanted burn. I also wanted the tanker ATO procs because... they're reaaaally good, actually? I can usually triplestack the +res one, if I put it in the right power.

 

With that criteria, I ended up with three builds in total: s/l def softcap, e/n def softcap, and e/n resist cap. I had thought the e/n def softcap would feel tankiest (but I was wrong.) I did keep in mind alpha picks while making the builds, though the totals I'm linking don't have them included. I didn't use other incarnates. Hasten is on, the procs are not.

 

s/l def softcap:



e/n def softcap:

e/n res cap:

 

I took each one to the test server because, well, that's the thing to do when you're uncertain, yeah? I took each build through +4x8 council, circle of thorns, and arachnos. In the first two builds, I ended up taking vigor core paragon to make up for not having tactics - I also thought the extra healing would make healing flames and soul drain feel better. In the last build, I took... Musculature Radial Paragon. Yes, on a tanker. I took musculature on a tanker. I have to say, blasphemy has never felt so good. The -tohit in musc fed into every dark melee attack, on top of doing nice things to my damage and endurance.

 

I really did end up feeling the most tanky on the e/n res cap, and it'll be what I run for my character on live, too. I felt like... Well, for some reason, stacking defence on fiery aura just felt way weaker than stacking it on dark armour or electric armour, and I have a hard time pinpointing a reason why.  It's not like fiery aura is uniquely more vulnerable to defence debuffs than the other two. I'd guess the last build's higher global recharge might have contributed, in the sense that it made healing flames and siphon life come up more often, but the difference in recharge between them was about one second, and I don't think I personally would recognise a difference of one second. If anything, if recharge made such a difference, then I should've noticed it more on the s/l def softcap build, because while it had lower recharge, it had six times the amount of recharge protection. And god knows arachnos has slows.

 

I think what made the difference in the builds partially came down to the fact that I slotted a boosted healing IO in siphon life, and partially came down to the fact that the e/n res cap build just did a lot more damage overall. Unenhanced, siphon life heals 17% health per hit. With the boosted IO, it did 26%. That's... Not a small difference. I'd also guess that vigour isn't, on its own, an equal substitute for tactics. Not that I found being blinded mattered overmuch, since soul drain and burn doesn't require targets. I couldn't fit the preventative medicine proc into anything except the e/n res cap, and of course *that* made a difference.

 

It's worth noting all three did the council/cot/arachnos tests just fine, though the e/n res cap did it with the least effort invested. It's also worth noting that since I only played on the test server, alone, I didn't get to test this in the environment that I really care about the most for a tanker - a full team of random people who may or may not know what an IO is, someone might even be a trick arrow/energy blast defender, and the domi just ran around a corner into an ambush a half second after domination dropped off. So, take everything with a grain of salt.

 

Did it feel as tanky as dark armour or electric armour? No, not really. But did it feel tanky "enough?" Yeah, and it was actually really fun to play, too. I'm looking forward to running it in game.

 

I can provide the builds on request, but I don't think they were anything special or they did anything controversial.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Katharos
forgot the part that's relevant to the OP >>

[marcussmythe]

Thank you for the feedback!  And this is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking about - Fire can be more than just a farmer, and still 'tanky enough' to tank most anything that needs tanking (how much the moreso in teams, once buffed!).  And other sets can afford to dial back their investment in survival for more utility/damage, especially for times when you arent tanking 4-towers recluse or suchlike.

 

More broadly - I ANTICIPATE the reason you saw more value from the resist focus version is that with resist or defense, you are well served to first fill out one, before pursuing the other.  Fire Armor gives no defense (like elec, and NEARLY like Dark - it has a little), but also has less resist to work with than those sets - so capping out your important resists (S/L/E - Fire you get for free, but F/C/N matter little at 50) gives you more value than having mediocre resist AND mediocre defense.  (the moreso since, as you noted, sets without MASSIVE DDR, or serious overcapping of their defenses, have defense at all only when it pleases the mob designer to allow it - Ive come to mentally treat any defense that isnt coupled with 90% DDR OR about 5-10% over cap as essentially nonexistent in survival planning against the mean lvl 50 mobs)

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

5 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

Thank you for the feedback!  And this is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking about - Fire can be more than just a farmer, and still 'tanky enough' to tank most anything that needs tanking (how much the moreso in teams, once buffed!).  And other sets can afford to dial back their investment in survival for more utility/damage, especially for times when you arent tanking 4-towers recluse or suchlike.

 

More broadly - I ANTICIPATE the reason you saw more value from the resist focus version is that with resist or defense, you are well served to first fill out one, before pursuing the other.  Fire Armor gives no defense (like elec, and NEARLY like Dark - it has a little), but also has less resist to work with than those sets - so capping out your important resists (S/L/E - Fire you get for free, but F/C/N matter little at 50) gives you more value than having mediocre resist AND mediocre defense.  (the moreso since, as you noted, sets without MASSIVE DDR, or serious overcapping of their defenses, have defense at all only when it pleases the mob designer to allow it - Ive come to mentally treat any defense that isnt coupled with 90% DDR OR about 5-10% over cap as essentially nonexistent in survival planning against the mean lvl 50 mobs)

Correct.  Found out after trying to hybrid Def/Res a Rad tank that, while it CAN work, has some serious deficiencies.
Going whole-hog for Resists generally yields a better overall experience.  And you CAN still build up a modicum of Defense.
Just understand that, with no DDR, the entire amount is essentially sacrificial.

However, a balls-to-the-wall Resist tank is basically:

ResistDude: Oh noez!  I've had my Defense debuffed into negative triple digits!  What EVER shall I do?  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Infinitum]

40 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Correct.  Found out after trying to hybrid Def/Res a Rad tank that, while it CAN work, has some serious deficiencies.
Going whole-hog for Resists generally yields a better overall experience.  And you CAN still build up a modicum of Defense.
Just understand that, with no DDR, the entire amount is essentially sacrificial.

However, a balls-to-the-wall Resist tank is basically:

ResistDude: Oh noez!  I've had my Defense debuffed into negative triple digits!  What EVER shall I do?  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Scuse my while I chuckle gleefully at your attempts to tickle me...

 

Oh wait!?!?  You are punching me....

 

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Scuse my while I chuckle gleefully at your attempts to tickle me...

 

Oh wait!?!?  You are punching me....

 

 

 

C'mon!  In the face!
HARDER!
No!  HARDER!

[Hyperstrike]

And, in service of Fire/Fire.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Fire-Fire-Pyre Proto BFAS: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(15)
Level 1: Scorch -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(23), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(29), Hct-Dam%:50(31)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), ImpArm-ResDam:40(5), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(7)
Level 4: Fire Sword -- Hct-Dmg:50(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(34)
Level 6: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(33)
Level 8: Combustion -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 10: Temperature Protection -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(13)
Level 12: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%:50(A), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg:50(36)
Level 14: Consume -- Arm-Dmg:50(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Arm-Dam%:50(36), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(37), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 16: Breath of Fire -- Ann-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), Rgn-Acc/Rchg:50(40), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 18: Plasma Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(19), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(19), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(21), ImpArm-ResDam:40(21), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(23)
Level 20: Burn -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg:50(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg:50(43), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Avl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(25), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(27), ImpArm-ResDam:40(27), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(29)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Obl-Dmg:50(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Obl-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), Obl-%Dam:50(43)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%:50(A)
Level 32: Rise of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(A)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(39)
Level 41: Char -- UnbCns-Hold:50(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg:50(46), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(46), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg:50(48), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold:50(48), UnbCns-Dam%:50(48)
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(50), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(50)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------

 

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[Marshal_General]

It seems to me that for major resist sets, since defense is there to slow down you getting hit and not prevent it due to no defense debuff protection, that the rest of the debuff protection become more important like -tohit and -endurance. I have had a level 30 willpower tanker on test get drained three times of endurance in one fight against Freakshow. I have had other tankers get a nice -tohit that left me doing nothing but spending endurance trying to attack.

 

So it seems to me that there are several layers on protection a tank can use:

Defense

Resistance

Status Protection

Debuff Protection

Healing

 

The question I have is how to you apply a ratio to each especially with resist sets?

 

Defense sets like SR are easier. You get your defense up with enough resist for the few hits that get through and you status protection the all tanker sets give. Healing may not even be needed and debuff protection to the non defense debuffs isn't that important as you most likely will not get hit enough for it to tank your tohit or endurance..

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

stuff

 

And that is precisely why I love SR so much. Can't debuff me when you can't hit me and can't debuff my defense cuz I'm sittin at 95% DDR.

[marcussmythe]

Of all the survival sets, I find SR Tanks the most enjoyable to build.  Not necessarily toughest/best/etc. - but having incarnate softcap just lying around, coupled with DDR that amounts to immunity - with knockon effects that make you functionally resistant to most other debuffs (cause they missed) - Ive just got so much headroom to chase resist or recharge or regen or HP or Damage - because unlike almost every other mitigation set in the game, it doesnt need much investment to do what it does perfectly well.

 

I suppose Rad is the flip of this - its not as easy to cap as SR in its domain, but its pretty straightforward to cap Rad against all the damage youll see a lot of - and then where SR layers on res as HP drops, Rad gives you absorb and healing and all sorts of other goodies.  I really should play more Rad.

[Werner]

I really should try Rad, but I can't seem to pull myself away from Dark. My beautiful, beautiful Dark. I'd be solo leveling my DA/MA Tanker right now if the servers were up, waiting for my friends to sign on.

 

But yeah, there's something so simple about SR, and I don't mean that in a bad way. Just... everything. No worries about defense debuffs. Easy to incarnate soft cap. Easy to play. Basically equal protection from all damage types, so you're not focusing on how to handle the holes in your defense or resistance. Easier to perma Hasten than many. Hard to hit you with other debuffs or exotic status effects. Leveling my SR Tanker, for a while I even kept forgetting to add slots for recharge in my status protection, because even though it was often down, it almost never made a difference due to soft capped defense. Hits it nice and early in the leveling process. It's a pleasure to level and play. And so I play it a lot, even if I know my Darks are tougher. SR is, well... Tough Enough.

[Hjarki]

4 hours ago, Werner said:

But yeah, there's something so simple about SR, and I don't mean that in a bad way. Just... everything. No worries about defense debuffs. Easy to incarnate soft cap. Easy to play. Basically equal protection from all damage types, so you're not focusing on how to handle the holes in your defense or resistance. Easier to perma Hasten than many. Hard to hit you with other debuffs or exotic status effects. Leveling my SR Tanker, for a while I even kept forgetting to add slots for recharge in my status protection, because even though it was often down, it almost never made a difference due to soft capped defense. Hits it nice and early in the leveling process. It's a pleasure to level and play. And so I play it a lot, even if I know my Darks are tougher. SR is, well... Tough Enough.

I find it tough to take Super Reflexes on a non-Sentinel since the Sentinel version is so much better. It has a harder time hitting benchmarks like "Incarnate soft cap", but it gets Tanker-level resist scaling, an absorption shield and endurance management. You can also take a damage aura via Epic pools.

 

There's also the fact that you can work a little bit harder with Shield Defense to get a significantly broader set of abilities.

[Infinitum]

15 hours ago, Werner said:

I really should try Rad, but I can't seem to pull myself away from Dark. My beautiful, beautiful Dark. I'd be solo leveling my DA/MA Tanker right now if the servers were up, waiting for my friends to sign on.

 

But yeah, there's something so simple about SR, and I don't mean that in a bad way. Just... everything. No worries about defense debuffs. Easy to incarnate soft cap. Easy to play. Basically equal protection from all damage types, so you're not focusing on how to handle the holes in your defense or resistance. Easier to perma Hasten than many. Hard to hit you with other debuffs or exotic status effects. Leveling my SR Tanker, for a while I even kept forgetting to add slots for recharge in my status protection, because even though it was often down, it almost never made a difference due to soft capped defense. Hits it nice and early in the leveling process. It's a pleasure to level and play. And so I play it a lot, even if I know my Darks are tougher. SR is, well... Tough Enough.

I'm playing with a Dark/Dark concept build right now on test.

 

It's pretty nasty cause I am res capped to all but energy - which I got to 80% and toxic which I got to 70%  and that doesn't take into account multiple procs of might of the tanker which procs reliably enough to leave me at or slightly below the res cap on those.

 

I also have 55% melee defense combined with ageless radial is a added layer.

 

At this point I don't even need dark regeneration or siphon life but they are there if I did.

 

Soul drain I have slotted with the Gaussian proc and avalanche with the kd proc that not only boosts damage but knocks them down.

 

Combine that with assault radial and it's a reliable buzzsaw.

 

Endurance issues are non existent.

 

I don't know how I've been missing out on dark all these years.

 

It's awesome.

[marcussmythe]

Mostly we were missing on dark all these years because our opinions on it were largely informed by the early days, when even after the toggles were made stackable, noone could feed the thing stamina.

[Infinitum]

15 minutes ago, marcussmythe said:

Mostly we were missing on dark all these years because our opinions on it were largely informed by the early days, when even after the toggles were made stackable, noone could feed the thing stamina.

Yeah, I'll post my build when I get home, but honestly stamina isnt even on the map of being an issue with this build, I was pleasantly surprised cause inhad always heard what an end hog dark is/was.

[Werner]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I'm playing with a Dark/Dark concept build right now on test.

 

It's pretty nasty cause I am res capped to all but energy - which I got to 80% and toxic which I got to 70%  and that doesn't take into account multiple procs of might of the tanker which procs reliably enough to leave me at or slightly below the res cap on those.

 

I also have 55% melee defense combined with ageless radial is a added layer.

 

At this point I don't even need dark regeneration or siphon life but they are there if I did.

 

That sounds similar to the Dark/MA build I'm currently leveling towards. I did a fair bit of testing on beta first. Defense will be 55.1% melee, 47.3% SL, 45.7% FC, 44.4% ranged/AoE. Resistance with one proc 71% energy, 65% toxic, 90% other. I did have a version of the build with 82% energy resistance, but felt it had too many compromises to get there. I blaspheme by going Barrier Core instead of Ageless Radial - it addresses resistance debuffs where Ageless does not, and if needed fills in the energy and toxic "holes", such as they are. I didn't include 6% from Barrier (also took Cardiac Core) in those resistance numbers because I use it for emergencies, not for keeping my resists topped up. Then slotting and power picks for 86.5% end/recovery/to-hit debuff resistance, 120% perception radius debuff resistance, and 80% recharge/slow resistance. I'll be using Dark Regeneration, but I'm basing that on L54 Anti-Matter and +4x8 801.1 on beta. 240 DPS. Should be fine for endurance even facing severe drains and debuffs. Puts my Katana/Dark Brute to shame on everything but single-target DPS, but I guess that's what a Tanker gives you.

 

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

honestly stamina isnt even on the map of being an issue with this build, I was pleasantly surprised cause inhad always heard what an end hog dark is/was.

 

Other than leveling, I consider endurance to be one of Dark Armor's strengths due to the very high debuff resistance. I mean yes, you have to plan for it, but it's easily done on an end-game build. And it's manageable while leveling, particularly if you throw enough influence and slots at the problem.

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

Mostly we were missing on dark all these years because our opinions on it were largely informed by the early days, when even after the toggles were made stackable, noone could feed the thing stamina.

Also, power customisation! Possible concepts were expanded significantly with the Soul Noir theme. And removing the constant throbbing and noise...

[nihilii]

33 minutes ago, Werner said:

Other than leveling, I consider endurance to be one of Dark Armor's strengths due to the very high debuff resistance. I mean yes, you have to plan for it, but it's easily done on an end-game build. And it's manageable while leveling, particularly if you throw enough influence and slots at the problem.

SR vs Dark was quite the revelation for me in the endgame. My SR alts struggle with nothing... except the end drain from Lord Recluse. Oh and the end drain from Freakshow Super Stunners. Oh and the end drain from... etc..

Meanwhile, Dark fixes end consumption with Ageless and lives happily ever after.

[Werner]

4 minutes ago, nihilii said:

SR vs Dark was quite the revelation for me in the endgame. My SR alts struggle with nothing... except the end drain from Lord Recluse. Oh and the end drain from Freakshow Super Stunners. Oh and the end drain from... etc..

Meanwhile, Dark fixes end consumption with Ageless and lives happily ever after.

...except for those defense debuffs. Oh, the defense debuffs. Though particularly on a Tanker, the resistance and huge heal can carry you along even when deep in the red on defense. Probably less of a problem if you go Ageless Radial, which I suspect most people would on Dark Armor.

 

But yeah, I was fighting Lord Recluse recently on my DM/SR Brute. Our Tanker lost aggro briefly while we were working on the towers, LR came and hit me, and poof, no endurance.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Werner said:

That sounds similar to the Dark/MA build I'm currently leveling towards. I did a fair bit of testing on beta first. Defense will be 55.1% melee, 47.3% SL, 45.7% FC, 44.4% ranged/AoE. Resistance with one proc 71% energy, 65% toxic, 90% other. I did have a version of the build with 82% energy resistance, but felt it had too many compromises to get there. I blaspheme by going Barrier Core instead of Ageless Radial - it addresses resistance debuffs where Ageless does not, and if needed fills in the energy and toxic "holes", such as they are. I didn't include 6% from Barrier (also took Cardiac Core) in those resistance numbers because I use it for emergencies, not for keeping my resists topped up. Then slotting and power picks for 86.5% end/recovery/to-hit debuff resistance, 120% perception radius debuff resistance, and 80% recharge/slow resistance. I'll be using Dark Regeneration, but I'm basing that on L54 Anti-Matter and +4x8 801.1 on beta. 240 DPS. Should be fine for endurance even facing severe drains and debuffs. Puts my Katana/Dark Brute to shame on everything but single-target DPS, but I guess that's what a Tanker gives you.

Thats uncanny how close both of our decisions are running on these builds, I actually capped nrg res at 90 but felt it compromised too much on damage to do it so I reverted back to the build at 80.

 

And might of the tanker fills in that gap either way.

 

I also went cardiac, and thought about barrier actually, its hard to pass up the recharge of ageless in my mind, but I may end up running both and flipping situationally.

 

What hybrid are you running?