Please make obsolete content playable again.

[GuilmonDude]

Okay it's a bit more than that, i just had a lot of things in my mind while playing and decided to write them down.

While i like some of the changes the homecoming team made compared to live i'm a little dissapointed we ended up with completely dead systems like alignment, craftable/earnable costume pieces ceased to be and a huge part of 50+ content due to earning incarnate points being done just by leveling. And while the IO's that level with you is a good idea it's very easy to get full build currently. Leveling is much faster and the market is a lot more generous. I haven't looked into the reasoning but i feel like we have a lot of void content despite being the most populated CoH server. One of my most exciting moments in CoH back in the day was working towards a cool piece of costume i really wanted, i feel that should still be around for people to experience. 

I'm hoping the team will take advantage of the work that was already done for them and maybe add to now missing segments of the game. Better yet make content that was unplayable and wasteful before playable again, it should be easier than to completely design new content. A big issue i had with CoH before was at how unnecessary it was to go red or gold side and do content there when it's straight up better to be blue side, wasting a TON of content, missions and work the devs put towards those maps. Breathe life into them again and make us earn exclusive currency, costumes and rewards by making us do content around those areas. Add more costumes that are both earnable be it exclusive tied to badges or tradeable. Even if you have to revalue missions that are now useless into making them relevant it'd be good to have. I don't remember which CoH server it was but one of them had it so you earned the cash stuff by doing different things. But it's a little late now as we have all of that on the P2W vendor, all unlocked emotes and costume pieces. Doesn't mean we can't add them in the future.

Give people reasons to start gold/red side or swap alignments once in a while. Make alignment missions matter again, it's a little sad to see that the entire point of CoH's going rogue expansion was never expanded on and even now it's put to the side. There is almost no reason to do anything, the variety for different missions and content is pretty much gone.

Since people are leveling way faster and getting full build much easier with how everything is streamlined i fear we will start to run out of content very quickly with the removal of the system that kept players back. So unless the team is serious about making this long term i fear for this game's future.

I know grinding is annoying and the grind CoH had was janky at best but it's what keeps a lot of people playing, even if they don't want to admit it. Because if not that then the only hope is how much you'd be willing to make an alt.

I know the team probably doesn't have the resources to do it and when they designed all these streamlining changes it was with a very low population in mind such as seeding the auction house, but just maybe if the game gained a lot more attraction it's how i'd want it to proceed. I can't help but picture in my head how great of an MMO CoH could be if it came out today in a new engine and more though out systems. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by GuilmonDude

[Omega-202]

No content in CoH is obsolete.  It's all there for you to play. Every TF auto exemplars you.  Every story arc is in Ouroboros.  

 

I often go back and replay old story arcs, especially the Striga ones, just for the nostalgia.  

 

You shouldn't need to be rewarded to play the content.  If you need a carrot on a stick to enjoy it or to be enticed to play it, are you actually enjoying it?  I think that says more about you having some sort of screwed up motivational driving factors.  

 

In sum, /jranger

[GuilmonDude]

32 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

No content in CoH is obsolete.  It's all there for you to play. Every TF auto exemplars you.  Every story arc is in Ouroboros.  

 

I often go back and replay old story arcs, especially the Striga ones, just for the nostalgia.  

 

You shouldn't need to be rewarded to play the content.  If you need a carrot on a stick to enjoy it or to be enticed to play it, are you actually enjoying it?  I think that says more about you having some sort of screwed up motivational driving factors.  

 

In sum, /jranger

First of all no need to be rude, reflects really badly on your person. I was one of the most nostalgic players to play the game again and did plenty of things for the sake of nostalgia. Funnily enough i didn't see anyone else doing it so your logic seems pretty flawed if you want it to be a functioning mmo again. If you want it to be a casual sandbox into old CoH to see how things were with everything you wanted then stop playing the next day, sure, that's pretty much what you want. I doubt even the devs were prepared to have so many people into the endgame with everything they needed so why the homecoming team did it was simply becauase of the low population i presume.

You are obviously not a true og from the golden days of CoH if you didn't enjoy your jorney even if it was in the middle of a grind for something you were really excited about. And you'd be surprised at how much content in games, mostly mmos get completely ignored when there is no relevancy tied to them, its just a little push players need to get. They might complain a bit at first but if it's something they really want or need you will see how those nostalgic moments form in the middle of it.

Now if you want players to go back to those old missions for the stories or for no reason at all you will see how quickly a game can die. Say what you will but currently farming/grinding is what is keeping the game alive (as is with most mmos) to begin with and its not even the fun kind. Nostalgia by itself can't do anything. Wonder how often someone will go to Striga Island just because, or how many people will keep playing gold side despite the lack of content and relevance. Not very many.

Also remember how AE had to be nerfed because people were way too invested into just getting to high level and not playing the game at all? are you saying everyone has screwed up motivational driving factors? 

No, you are just wrong.
 

Edited August 10, 2020 by GuilmonDude

[Omega-202]

Cool.  Been here since beta, but go on with the condescension.  Reflects really well on you as a person.

 

There's a reason the grind is gone.  Its because the "real OGs" all grew up and are old farts now with lives to attend to and don't want or care about the old grind.  Why would anyone backtrack on a completely intentional change for the better?  Look at the other servers with more grinding and tell me how great their pop numbers are with their "OG" feel.  

 

You are wrong.  Also Suggestions forum is ^that way^.

 

EDIT: The funniest part is saying "that's how the game will die".  HC has been running for 18 months now, with the current level of "minimal grind" and still hits its donation goals every month in an hour or less.  Numbers are steady.  Where's this predicted death?  Also, this isn't an actual MMO.  It's a zombie unofficial game run by fans. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Omega-202

[FoulVileTerror]

@GuilmonDude, you are not alone:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/12155-going-forward-can-we-have-more-things-that-mean-something/

But you also appear to be in a minority.

 

I recommend taking a read through that other thread.  There's some helpful information in there.

 

But, ultimately, from a game design standpoint; sunk-cost fallacies are one of the things that are best removed wholesale.  A player can still opt to self-impose any challenges or milestones they personally desire without negatively impacting the players who benefit from the more flexible and permissive gameplay which is now available.

 

The Devs are almost certainly aware of the players who want more challenge or more baubles, but there hasn't been an official word one way or the other (as far as I know) on how they feel about it.

[Eva Destruction]

All the gold-side content is required for some of the new badges the HC team added.  So there's your reward for doing that.

 

As for redside, you're rewarded by getting better-designed arcs that don't drag on forever and send you all over the city.

 

The endgame doesn't have nearly enough content to earn all the incarnate powers without a lot of repetitive grinding.  Now repeat that for every alt.  This was a terrible design decision by the live devs that the HC team has rectified.  There is nothing stopping you from running trials and Incarnate arcs if you want to.

 

If you really want the game to be grindy again, you can still make your own grind.  As for the rest of us, as Omega-202 said, we're old farts who like being able to trick out our alts in a reasonable time frame.

[Heraclea]

Plenty to grind on if you want grind.  I have alts that need hero merits, and alts that need transcendent merits.  Go to and grind that out. 

 

I would prefer to have an option to run the old version of Maria Jenkins' arc rather than the New Praetorianized versions.  Ouro doesn't really work for very long arcs like Maria and Tina Mac; they aren't things you can finish in an evening.  Do not like white square lab maps.  Do not like IDF in everything, they're the Longbow and Arachnos of the late game. 

[Lazarillo]

18 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

Do not like IDF in everything, they're the Longbow and Arachnos of the late game. 

Aren't Arachnos already the Arachnos of the late game?

*makes shifty-eyed looks at Tarantula Mistresses*

Edited August 10, 2020 by Lazarillo

[Piecemeal]

1 hour ago, GuilmonDude said:

Give people reasons to [...] swap alignments once in a while.

*coughs in foreshadowing*

[FoulVileTerror]

*grits teeth in anxious consideration of said foreshadowing*

[kiramon]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

Cool.  Been here since beta, but go on with the condescension.  Reflects really well on you as a person.

 

There's a reason the grind is gone.  Its because the "real OGs" all grew up and are old farts now with lives to attend to and don't want or care about the old grind.  Why would anyone backtrack on a completely intentional change for the better?  Look at the other servers with more grinding and tell me how great their pop numbers are with their "OG" feel.  

 

You are wrong.  Also Suggestions forum is ^that way^.

 

EDIT: The funniest part is saying "that's how the game will die".  HC has been running for 18 months now, with the current level of "minimal grind" and still hits its donation goals every month in an hour or less.  Numbers are steady.  Where's this predicted death?  Also, this isn't an actual MMO.  It's a zombie unofficial game run by fans. 

I was here since beta- I was upset my EB Games preorder didn’t have the sprint I wanted 😞

 

thar being said, I ain’t an old fart!! Okay I’m 33. 

[cohRock]

Actually, I tend to agree with the OP about the current game being too generous.  That said, I accept it and don't see it changing unless CoX becomes commercial again.  Then many of what we quickly become used to as "freebies" will have to be earned again, or paid for.  And I hope some go away, like the ability to instantly change your alignment.  With a low population of players, I understand it, but if the playbase grows to the 10s of thousands again, there really should be some sort of barrier between being a hero or villain or whatever.  The alignment system still works fine, and during the weekend, I used it to convert a villain to rogue.  Sure it takes a little work and time, but now I feel the character earned his roguehood.

[Xanatos]

You kids these days don't know how good you've got it. Back in the days of the 2001 pre-beta boards we didn't have a "game" to "play". We imagined everything and we were happy. Worst thing ever to happen to CoH was it existing. What I wouldn't do for the glory days of vaporware. You can't get bored and run out of content if you have to make it all up in your head.

 

And grinding? Don't talk to me about grinding. Jack Emmert revealing beta invites would be based on forum activity? I had to post 10 times a day for six months, uphill both ways, in the snow. I earned my spot. I didn't "powerlevel" my way into the 2004 public beta like these 2004 pre-order n00bs.

 

Game needs rebuilding, exactly the same, from the ground up. It's the only way we can give people the authentic CoH experience.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Xanatos

[GuilmonDude]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

Cool.  Been here since beta, but go on with the condescension.  Reflects really well on you as a person.

 

There's a reason the grind is gone.  Its because the "real OGs" all grew up and are old farts now with lives to attend to and don't want or care about the old grind.  Why would anyone backtrack on a completely intentional change for the better?  Look at the other servers with more grinding and tell me how great their pop numbers are with their "OG" feel.  

 

You are wrong.  Also Suggestions forum is ^that way^.

 

EDIT: The funniest part is saying "that's how the game will die".  HC has been running for 18 months now, with the current level of "minimal grind" and still hits its donation goals every month in an hour or less.  Numbers are steady.  Where's this predicted death?  Also, this isn't an actual MMO.  It's a zombie unofficial game run by fans. 

I wasn't trying to be condescending, just ticks me off when people are aggresive for no reason.

And yeah i figured it was something like that plus the fact that the playerbase started off very small, it seems people are content enough to just sandbox around and make alts to satisfy their nostalgia and that is as far as they go for this game which is a shame, i look up to CoH greatly as an mmo. But ultimately that will not last very long, it's kinda like playing a game with cheats enabled, you can skip to the end and have everything you want but you will feel empty and bored way quicker. And the problem is that right now there is nothing to replace that and i don't blame the devs, the numbers are still way too small to warrant huge projects that would require even more new players. Even CoH at it's death was dealing with issues related to wasted resources and low playability on multiple fronts.

And it's not even worth mentioning other servers since they have no playerbase to speak of, so it's hard to discern if that method would have worked better. I wonder what the numbers are right now on what exact missions everyone is doing and how ignored a large sum of the game is. 

I think setting up your own challenges and doing old content "just because" wouldn't sit well with most players. Lets be real, the old missions and content in CoH doesn't have amazing replayability and its even worse with no relevancy. It was ignored back then and it will be even more so now.

And you said it yourself, OG's are old farts now and i'm assuming a chunk of them have money to spare to support the homecoming team, but that is still not enough insurance of the game's future. And if that future is meant to keep the game as a zombie fan game then it will never feel like og CoH or anything better.

 

 

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

You shouldn't need to be rewarded to play the content.  If you need a carrot on a stick to enjoy it or to be enticed to play it, are you actually enjoying it?  I think that says more about you having some sort of screwed up motivational driving factors.  

 

In sum, /jranger

First of all, your comment is completely ludicrous.  "You shouldn't need to be rewarded to play the content."  And yet, the overwhelming majority of online games have some sort of progression system.  I guess developers and players worldwide have some sort of screwed up motivational driving factors.  You know, like experience points, currency, loot drops, badges, etc.

 

 

Addressing the OP - I think some of your points are valid.  When things are basically thrown at you, you don't value them as much.  I remember when we had 'SG mode' and, at higher levels, you had to decided to prioritize earning influence or prestige.  I understand why the 'secret server' changed that - they just didn't have enough players.  The Homecoming team inherited a lot of design decisions from the 'secret server', and not all of them good.  The fact that everyone can build their own huge base has had a negative impact on supergroups.  One of the reasons to join an SG has been removed.  (Not all - just one.)

 

Having said that, I don't think any content is obsolete.  It may be grindy.  It may be less fun.  But content is content and it should stay around.  Like we can still do the original Positron task force even though we now have the new two-part Posi TF.  We just need new and better content - which the devs ARE producing.  It's just a very slow process with a small team of volunteers.

[Omega-202]

10 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

First of all, your comment is completely ludicrous.  "You shouldn't need to be rewarded to play the content."  And yet, the overwhelming majority of online games have some sort of progression system.  I guess developers and players worldwide have some sort of screwed up motivational driving factors.  You know, like experience points, currency, loot drops, badges, etc.

 

Yes, its called Skinner box mechanics.  There is something wrong with it, and once you look behind the curtain and realize how manipulative certain game mechanics are, you see how screwed up certain playerbases are.  It's all about artificial player retention for the sake of profit.  

 

But obviously some mice don't recognize the morphine button for what it is.  

Edited August 10, 2020 by Omega-202

[FoulVileTerror]

While you raise an excellent point, @Omega-202, I think your present tone really undermines the efficacy of your message.  And since it's an important message, I would like to encourage your consideration of establishing it without resorting to comments like the last line of your post there.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

31 minutes ago, GuilmonDude said:

I wasn't trying to be condescending, just ticks me off when people are aggresive for no reason.

And yeah i figured it was something like that plus the fact that the playerbase started off very small, it seems people are content enough to just sandbox around and make alts to satisfy their nostalgia and that is as far as they go for this game which is a shame, i look up to CoH greatly as an mmo. But ultimately that will not last very long, it's kinda like playing a game with cheats enabled, you can skip to the end and have everything you want but you will feel empty and bored way quicker. And the problem is that right now there is nothing to replace that and i don't blame the devs, the numbers are still way too small to warrant huge projects that would require even more new players. Even CoH at it's death was dealing with issues related to wasted resources and low playability on multiple fronts.

And it's not even worth mentioning other servers since they have no playerbase to speak of, so it's hard to discern if that method would have worked better. I wonder what the numbers are right now on what exact missions everyone is doing and how ignored a large sum of the game is. 

I think setting up your own challenges and doing old content "just because" wouldn't sit well with most players. Lets be real, the old missions and content in CoH doesn't have amazing replayability and its even worse with no relevancy. It was ignored back then and it will be even more so now.

And you said it yourself, OG's are old farts now and i'm assuming a chunk of them have money to spare to support the homecoming team, but that is still not enough insurance of the game's future. And if that future is meant to keep the game as a zombie fan game then it will never feel like og CoH or anything better.

 

 

No replayability? I tend to lead TFs every day i play for extended periods of time. Usually my old faves that others do seem to abhor. like Citadel love me the nazi bashing in the caves of talos and IP. Or the 2 out in Striga, sometimes all 3 of those in a row, because like I said I LOVE ME SOME NAZI PUNCHING! As in it never ever gets old for me.

 

You dont seem to recall the old live game well at all to be frank. year one, month one, SGs using ladder toons where using PLVing to cap in a matter of hours to help drive recruitment up for their SGs.

 

and again HC has been going for well over a year now, and our population hasnt gone ghost town.

 

Until talks with NC Soft lead to anything resembling a rebirth of an official server, yeah no its not going to become something other then what it is. One of many pirate servers running the game illegally. None of us here hold any delusion that it is anything other then that. Yes we are all criminals for donning our masks and capes and tights again and running around Paragon. We all rep vigilante and rogue in RL now by playing this game;)

 

And I can tell you, red side and gold side are indeed and always will be largely ignored. Paragon City however, every TF related to the tf commander  accolade gets run by folks in mass daily. for their various alts. Hami and mommyship raids are both being run quite actively by the community on each server far as I know. Some do actively run the Itrials as well, not my thing really but I see groups gather in Ozone for them usually at least a couple times a week.

 

Badge hunters still tend to run just about everything badge related on their badge collector toon. And most players have a toon like that ime.

 

Frankly your starting to come off to me as an anti coh troll who is mad Champions Online on its best day has less then a fraction of the population  on one of our rogue servers.

 

You sure are talking about what most players would want for being a johnny come lately around here. As someone who pugs a hell of a lot and likely has a way better finger on the pulse of the everlasting community at least, I can assure you we are by and large quite happy with just about all the grind reduction and casual friendly changes made by the HC team.

[Ironblade]

15 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Yes, its called Skinner box mechanics.  There is something wrong with it, and once you look behind the curtain and realize how manipulative certain game mechanics are, you see how screwed up certain playerbases are.  It's all about artificial player retention for the sake of profit.  

 

But obviously some mice don't recognize the morphine button for what it is.  

Right, for the sake of profit.  I can't stand how Homecoming is fleecing me.

 

P.S.  As others have noted, you really do come across like a jerk and it impacts peoples perception of you.

[MTeague]

I've been playing since June 2019, on a fairly regular basis.  I have level exactly two 50's in that time, a 48, a 46, two 40's, two 30's, about 8 in the twenties and another eighteen or so below that. 

 

Because I am specifically NOT powerlevelling, and in fact disabling XP at several points along the way when there's X content I want to do "at level" or because I want to do wide variety of the tip missions (tips are availalbe from 20+, but they are divided into a tier... 20-30 tips, 30-40 tips, 40-50 tips... if you zoom to 50, you'll never see many of them), etc.

 

It's very possible to throttle your own pace if you wish it. 

One need not keep up with the joneses.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Piecemeal said:

*coughs in foreshadowing*

Ill be honest for me its as simple as that none of the alignment arcs ever really seem to fit my characters enough to be the kind of stuff they would be taking on. While many are well written or fun enough, I just find way more other content tends to suit my characters better. thats the main reason I dont bother with the hero/vil tip mishes at all personally.

[MTeague]

6 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

And I can tell you, red side and gold side are indeed and always will be largely ignored.

This will likely remain true for a big chunk of the player base.  I still maintain that that's a DAMN shame and people are costing themselves some very fine story arcs and interesting zones because of it. 

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 minute ago, MTeague said:

This will likely remain true for a big chunk of the player base.  I still maintain that that's a DAMN shame and people are costing themselves some very fine story arcs and interesting zones because of it. 

 

especially gold side. done 2 runs of it myself since I came back one a solo, one a duo run. The visuals alone there are so damn enjoyable its hard not to just want to head there for social RPsessions.

[MTeague]

7 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

especially gold side. done 2 runs of it myself since I came back one a solo, one a duo run. The visuals alone there are so damn enjoyable its hard not to just want to head there for social RPsessions.

Yep. I have 8 Praetoerians, likely to have at LEAST one of every AT before I'm done. 

 

The MM will be the trickiest, because the only MM primary I don't have yet is Mercs, and I find it hard to justify Mercs MM in Praetoria... like... okay... why is Preator White talking to YOU and not your MINONS, if they're just random human soldiers?  So I need to work some kind of 'not human soldiers, just look like it' into an origin / backstory.  Projected Dreams / Artificial Constructs maybe, though that kinda screams Illusion Control, not Mercs.

[FoulVileTerror]

Or maybe you're a broker/contractor, and you only call in the soldiers after getting the job details from your contacts.  You're essentially a middleman who watches your 'runners' progress from the frontlines.