Port Sent SR to melee please

[WindDemon21]

Pretty straightforward, please port it to the melee ATs. Enduring and Master Brawler go a LOOOOONG way to fixing SR.

[Razor Cure]

Subjectively, there is nothing wrong with SR. But the sentinal powers at least SHOW that the power people are willing to entertain the idea that not even likes Click Mez powers.

[Haijinx]

30 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Subjectively, there is nothing wrong with SR. But the sentinal powers at least SHOW that the power people are willing to entertain the idea that not even likes Click Mez powers.

Except for the Power Order for Scrappers 

 

 

[MTeague]

I actually like Clicky mez protection.  Among other things, it can STACK with itself, offering far superior magnitude of protection.

But I do get that for others, fire-and-forget while leaving your autofire free for something else is very appealing.

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, MTeague said:

I actually like Clicky mez protection.  Among other things, it can STACK with itself, offering far superior magnitude of protection.

And what good does that even do you? If you're getting hit by enough mezzes to overcome one stack of PB despite having a defense set, you're probably dead from the incoming damage hitting you either way.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Well not the same, stacking the ninjutsu mez protection is useful since that includes a bonus psi damage resistance. Two clicks and you can end up with 66% psi resist.

 

edit: to clarify, I think what we might consider is that click next protections should actually apply an additional buff to make them worth a bit more than their “one-time” endurance cost. Otherwise their only virtue is that you can keep your mez protection up even during end crashes.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Sakura Tenshi

[WindDemon21]

4 hours ago, MTeague said:

I actually like Clicky mez protection.  Among other things, it can STACK with itself, offering far superior magnitude of protection.

But I do get that for others, fire-and-forget while leaving your autofire free for something else is very appealing.

Apparently you haven't played Sent SR then, cause you CHOOSE between Master Brawler or Practiced Brawler.

 

But MB is nicer cause it gives you an absorb shield which works perfectly with SRs scaling resistances. The only thing better would be the toggle absorb instant regeneration so that SR could still easily justify not getting hasten.

 

Then it loses lucky for enduring, which still has the scaling resistance and DDR, but gives SR a VERY welcome 30% recovery, and it only has the aoe defense from lucky moved to evasion, which losing 6%ish aoe defense at 28 when you have none else till 35 with evasion is no big hardship.

 

Though I would even suggest swapping quickness till 35 and evasion to 28 then, or better yet moving the aoe defense into the other two toggles and getting a self rez or something at 35.

Edited August 29, 2020 by WindDemon21

[nihilii]

On 8/29/2020 at 9:37 PM, WindDemon21 said:

Apparently you haven't played Sent SR then, cause you CHOOSE between Master Brawler or Practiced Brawler.

To be fair, MB is so much better (as you demonstrated) it's more a trap than a choice in reality.

[Haijinx]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:12 PM, Vanden said:

And what good does that even do you? If you're getting hit by enough mezzes to overcome one stack of PB despite having a defense set, you're probably dead from the incoming damage hitting you either way.

Yes, the irony of click mezz protection on defense sets ..

[ShardWarrior]

On 8/29/2020 at 1:55 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Pretty straightforward, please port it to the melee ATs. Enduring and Master Brawler go a LOOOOONG way to fixing SR.

Personally, I do not consider SR to be broken, just that it needs some adjusting to make it a little better earlier on.

[WindDemon21]

5 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Personally, I do not consider SR to be broken, just that it needs some adjusting to make it a little better earlier on.

Which having the absorb from MB and end recovery from enduring help to do.

Edited August 31, 2020 by WindDemon21

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Which having the absorb from MB and end recovery from enduring help to do.

Save WP and Regen, End recovery can be a problem for just about every set combo.   SR could use the AoE defense eariler on, not a absorb in my opinion. 

[Galaxy Brain]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Save WP and Regen, End recovery can be a problem for just about every set combo.   SR could use the AoE defense eariler on, not a absorb in my opinion. 

WP, Regen, Rad, Bio, Ice, Fire, Elec, Energy Aura, and Ninjitsu all have some form of End mitigation tools.

 

Dark, Invuln, Shield, SR, and Stone are the only armors that lack End tools. From that perspective, they are actually kind of outliers.

[WindDemon21]

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Save WP and Regen, End recovery can be a problem for just about every set combo.   SR could use the AoE defense eariler on, not a absorb in my opinion. 

Plus the absorb also helps later on too, and it's way better early on that no aoe till lucky at 28 and evasion at 35. Now i would also prefer the aoe defense put into the other toggles also, but MB making the mez protection in the toggles also means you don't have to perma PB early on.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

WP, Regen, Rad, Bio, Ice, Fire, Elec, Energy Aura, and Ninjitsu all have some form of End mitigation tools.

Sure but they also trade some defensive value in favor of that.  At least to me, if you want to start adding heals/absorbs and end recovery tools into SR, you may as well just roll Ninjitsu and call it a day.

[WindDemon21]

Except they still play differently. I for one enjoy the scaling resistances of SR, but I do feel it should get the sent rework. Even with the aoe earlier, SR hurts without heavy IO investment and tough/weave.

 

I also wish we could slot the passives for resistances to boost them and put those uniques in them to skip tough, and that they would start at 100% hp like the reactive defense unique does.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Even with the aoe earlier, SR hurts without heavy IO investment and tough/weave.

Well, Ninjitsu requires quite a bit of IO investment to help get you to cap as well as doing better with tough/weave mixed in early on.  SR should play differently for two different archetypes, but that is just my 2 inf.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Slightly straying from the topic, but my own thoughts to improve SR (including practice brawler) outside of the tier 9 would look like:

• Reduce the endurance cost of the toggles to .21 endurance per-second (some dark armors toggles have this value actually, hard to notice the benefit with so damn many) possibly as low as .18 (unprecedentedly low endurance consumption for an armor toggle)
• Practice Brawler needs something to make it's stacking ability worthwhile, possible ideas could include taunt/placate resistance (works thematically, circumstantial but can matter) an 'infinite' absorb shield that can be self-stacked (could potentially get OP with an SR scrapper just sitting for a bit to build up absorb shield, also could cause issue via rather than making PB something you'd want up permanently with overlap, 'holding out' to get the absorb if it's not a long lasting shield), another idea includes giving PB a stacking +15-30% recharge and/or ToHit buff, and something that could be done on it's own or in conjunction with about any of these (though probably first two), shorten the recharge timer so it's perma out of the box and can be stacked with even a single SO. (120 recharge to 120 duration)
• Possibly idea: Agile, Dodge, and Lucky now each have a baseline resistance bonus (of, say 3.75% to even 7.5%) to Smash/Lethal, Cold/Fire, and Energy/Negative respectively on top of their scaling resistances with the bonus being enhance-able.

 

Edit: I recind this point as it appears to have been made in error, only reserved for posterity.

 

I am not going to suggest moving AoE defenses earlier because something I found out through studying Nemesis Vengeance Procs, which I believe can be backed by Galaxy Brain is that very few attacks are purely AoE position, AoE is usually an augmenting factor and an attack is flagged as ranged or melee on top of being AoE, and if your melee and ranged defenses are high enough you still dodge AoEs all the same as it checks your highest defense. (the study was that Nemesis Vengeance actually only gives them defense against ranged and melee attacks, yet my titan weapons brute still whiffed quite a bit, leading to the realization that even though most of his attacks were AoE, they were still considered 'melee')

Edited August 31, 2020 by Sakura Tenshi

[WindDemon21]

15 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

I am not going to suggest moving AoE defenses earlier because something I found out through studying Nemesis Vengeance Procs, which I believe can be backed by Galaxy Brain is that very few attacks are purely AoE position, AoE is usually an augmenting factor and an attack is flagged as ranged or melee on top of being AoE, and if your melee and ranged defenses are high enough you still dodge AoEs all the same as it checks your highest defense. (the study was that Nemesis Vengeance actually only gives them defense against ranged and melee attacks, yet my titan weapons brute still whiffed quite a bit, leading to the realization that even though most of his attacks were AoE, they were still considered 'melee')

This is false, npc powers don't always work the same way as hero powers. check your combat log.

[Sakura Tenshi]

2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

This is false, npc powers don't always work the same way as hero powers. check your combat log.

so even basic mechanics like how defenses and attacks are tagged are different? I'm not disbelieving you so much as just how absurdly different the live devs made the game function between players and NPCs.

[WindDemon21]

No i mean how npc veng can have an aoe defense hole when ours doesn't. Whether an attack is "melee" aoe or "ranged" aoe, it's still flagged to our defense as aoe. Otherwise there would literally be no point to evasion and aoe defense besides the DDR.

[Vanden]

3 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

so even basic mechanics like how defenses and attacks are tagged are different? I'm not disbelieving you so much as just how absurdly different the live devs made the game function between players and NPCs.

No player or NPC powers have more than one positional tag.

[Galaxy Brain]

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Sure but they also trade some defensive value in favor of that.  At least to me, if you want to start adding heals/absorbs and end recovery tools into SR, you may as well just roll Ninjitsu and call it a day.

That's..... debatable

 

That list included: Rad, Bio, Elec, and Energy Aura which are all seen as top-tier armor sets.

[Razor Cure]

Also dont forget that ONLY Scrapper/Senty (do scrappers have it? I forget) even have the end boosting power. Not stalkers, who also get shafteds with the lack of kb protection.

[WindDemon21]

57 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Also dont forget that ONLY Scrapper/Senty (do scrappers have it? I forget) even have the end boosting power. Not stalkers, who also get shafteds with the lack of kb protection.

No only Sentinels get Enduring currently. Also tanker version of the passives is bugged, and is the same value as the other ATs, when it should be up to 26.7% resist at at 1% hp, not 20%.