questions Rogue playthrough - Contacts and Patrons

[tanglin]

I'm thinking of starting a villain character that changes alignment to be a Rogue at 20 and from then on, only do Rogue-like story arcs, which are arcs that aren't evil, but are closer to the Rogue alignment. So, does anyone have any recommended contacts?

 

Also, out of the 4 Patrons, which one is closest to the Rogue alignment?

[FoulVileTerror]

Based on my own memory, these Contacts are either decidedly mercenary or at least not malicious for evil's sake.

 

1 to 4

Matthew Burke ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Matthew_Burke )

 

5 to 8

Mongoose ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Mongoose )

 

5 to 9

Angelo Vendetti ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Angelo_Vendetti )

Billie Heck ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Billie_Heck )

 

15 to 19

Golden Roller ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Golden_Roller )

Willy Wheeler ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Willy_Wheeler )

Seer Marino ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Seer_Marino )

 

15 to 24

Bane Spider Ruben ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Bane_Spider_Ruben )

Brother Hammond ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Brother_Hammond )

 

20 to 24

Lt. Chalmers ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Lt._Chalmers )

Operative Vargas ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Operative_Vargas )

 

25 to 29

Doc Buzzsaw ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Doc_Buzzsaw )

Diviner Maros ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Diviner_Maros )

Operative Kirkland ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Operative_Kirkland )

 

30 to 34

Hard Luck ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Hard_Luck )

Hardcase ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Hardcase )

SLOT MACHINE! ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Slot_Machine )  BIG WINNER!

Timothy Raymond ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Timothy_Raymond )

 

35 to 39

Arbiter Leery ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Arbiter_Leery )

Basse Croupier ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Basse_Croupier )

Jezebel Jones ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Jezebel_Jones )

Mu'Drakhan ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Magus_Mu'Drakhan )

Technician Naylor ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Technician_Naylor )

 

40 to 44

Mage-Killer Zuhkara ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Mage-Killer_Zuhkara )

Number 204 ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Number_204 )

Regent Korol ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Regent_Korol )

Terrence Dobbs ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Terrence_Dobbs )

 

45 to 50

Efficiency Expert Pither ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Efficiency_Expert_Pither )

Operative Grillo ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Operative_Grillo )

Shadow Spider ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Shadow_Spider )

Tavish Bell ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Tavish_Bell )

 

Patron

Black Scorpion ( https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Black_Scorpion ) has you going up against Malta, Crey, and Arachnos for the most part, with only a couple of missions in the post-unlock Arc against Longbow.  It's fairly easy to view his first arc as heroic, even.

 

Also, it's interesting to me . . . many of the Arachnos Contacts are decidedly mercenary.  They're not doing things out of spite or sadism; but instead are just people with ambition who are operating within the practical bounds of the Arachnos culture of "social darwinism" extolled by Lord Recluse.  I mean, that's evil and all . . . but it's not evil simply for evil's sake.

 

I'd suggest asking @Chris24601 in particular, since 24601 has spoken firmly about personally pursuing less heinous paths while Redside a number of times in the past.

So, 24601:  If you feel I'm off the mark with any of these Contacts, and there's something definitely crossing the line in to plainly malicious with any of them, please feel free to make a note of it here!  Thanks.

[Six-Six]

You for Sgt. Schorr (https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Sgt._Schorr). One of my faves. if you pick the right choices (give the buggers part of your loot) you get 3 purdy sturdy summons.

[FoulVileTerror]

Oh.  If we're going with dedicated Rogue Contacts too, and not just the Villain Contacts who could be argued to be Rogue'ish, then we have to be sure to bring up @holymittens' fine work with Bobby Curtin ( https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/10968-feedback-new-story-arcs/ )!

[tanglin]

Thanks for the list, @FoulVileTerror! 

 

Are Mr G's missions of Rogue alignment? I'm asking specifically about him because I left the game before his missions were introduced and they involve the goings-on in Praetoria.

[FoulVileTerror]

They strike me more as megalomaniac villain content, personally.

[tanglin]

Just now, FoulVileTerror said:

They strike me more as megalomaniac villain content, personally.

Ah, I see. And there are dedicated Rogue contacts?

[FoulVileTerror]

Bobby Curtin was added last year, and is level 25 in Nerva.

And as @Six Six mentioned, Sgt. Schorr is level 30 in St. Martial.

 

They're both Rogue-only Contacts.

[tanglin]

1 minute ago, FoulVileTerror said:

Bobby Curtin was added last year, and is level 25 in Nerva.

And as @Six Six mentioned, Sgt. Schorr is level 30 in St. Martial.

 

They're both Rogue-only Contacts.

Ah ... and so far there are 2 such Rogue-only contacts?

 

I hardly ever played Villains to 50 back then and I assumed Sciroco would be less villainous than the rest. Never expected Black Scorpion to be the least villainous of the bunch.

[Yomo Kimyata]

For Patron, I'd go with Scirocco (sorry about the formatting, this was cut and pasted from the wiki):

 

 

Imad Malak was not always an evil man. Evil came to him from without. He was traveling in the deep desert near the Baka Valley deep in the Middle East. There he discovered an ancient tomb and stumbled inside. The tomb was that of a long-dead desert hero, and contained several objects of power including the bottle of the djinn Serafina. Also within was the hero's scimitar that granted the wielder incredible powers. Malak took the sword and donned the mantle of Scirocco. Unfortunately, he fell under a curse and was driven to commit acts of great evil. He sold the other objects off to the highest bidder, the bottle ending up with the Circle of Thorns. Once a hero of the people, he is now a dark stain on their proud heritage. Imad wishes nothing more than to find some way to rid himself of the curse and find redemption.

 

[tanglin]

30 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

For Patron, I'd go with Scirocco (sorry about the formatting, this was cut and pasted from the wiki):

 

 

Imad Malak was not always an evil man. Evil came to him from without. He was traveling in the deep desert near the Baka Valley deep in the Middle East. There he discovered an ancient tomb and stumbled inside. The tomb was that of a long-dead desert hero, and contained several objects of power including the bottle of the djinn Serafina. Also within was the hero's scimitar that granted the wielder incredible powers. Malak took the sword and donned the mantle of Scirocco. Unfortunately, he fell under a curse and was driven to commit acts of great evil. He sold the other objects off to the highest bidder, the bottle ending up with the Circle of Thorns. Once a hero of the people, he is now a dark stain on their proud heritage. Imad wishes nothing more than to find some way to rid himself of the curse and find redemption.

 

Yeah, his backstory makes him seem the least villainous. But I have a lot of time to decide on the Patron.

[Coyotedancer]

Yep. My red-siders (Who are all rogues-) tend to go with Scir as a patron. 

 

As for others... That list of VT's is good. I'd also add Hardcase, though. Everyone likes beating up freaky little Wailers.

[FoulVileTerror]

Did I miss Hardcase?

*scrolls up to check*

No . . . 

Did I put Hardcase in the wrong level range?

*checks the wiki*

AH!   He's apparently in both of the 30 to 34 and 35 to 39 ranges.

[Chris24601]

4 hours ago, FoulVileTerror said:

I'd suggest asking @Chris24601 in particular, since 24601 has spoken firmly about personally pursuing less heinous paths while Redside a number of times in the past.

So, 24601:  If you feel I'm off the mark with any of these Contacts, and there's something definitely crossing the line in to plainly malicious with any of them, please feel free to make a note of it here!

Overall a pretty good list, The main changes I'd make to it are;

 

- The two rogue arcs have been mentioned but I'd add them to the list for completeness sake (with the note they're expressly Rogue only).

 

- Scratch Billie Heck from the list unless you like kidnapping mobsters' daughters and turning them over to their rivals to make "examples" of.

 

- I'd add a note to drop Jezebel Jones before starting her "Johny's Squeeze" arc as that involves kidnapping and later murdering someone because they knew too much. Not very roguish there, but her other arc is pretty good.

 

- Shadow Spider's arcs are beating up Agents Indigo and Crimson... not my cup of tea, but super-spies aren't exactly innocent bystanders either so your roguish mileage may vary.

 

- I'd add Marshal Brass (15-19) with a note that you can choose to deliberately fail the final timed mission for his arc at which point its just a paid investigation arc which is right up a rogue's alley.

 

- I'd also make a note that the Vanguard arcs (35+) can be played by anyone and rogues can certainly run with the idea they're being paid handsomely as a government contractor for their services (and frankly, what's a better way to say "I'm a Rogue" than working for the government at ludicrously inflated rates... you're effectively stealing from entire countries LEGALLY and the heroes can't touch you).

Edited September 5, 2020 by Chris24601

[tanglin]

Thanks, @Chris24601, for sharing the ins and outs of leveling up a Rogue. I normally don't like failing missions, but I may just have to, to stick to being a Rogue.

 

What is your opinion on the Patrons?

[Chris24601]

40 minutes ago, tanglin said:

Thanks, @Chris24601, for sharing the ins and outs of leveling up a Rogue. I normally don't like failing missions, but I may just have to, to stick to being a Rogue.

 

What is your opinion on the Patrons?

It’s an easy one to fail though because it’s timed and the setup is literally that Amanda Vines will pay you to not get involved. So take the mission and then run something else until the timer’s up and then go collect your reward from Marshal Grumpypants for doing nothing.

 

I mean, seriously, you’re being PAID to do nothing. That is living the Rogue dream right there!

 

As to Patrons, Plan A for me is to just skip them unless I desperately need one of the Pools.

 

If all you’re after is the pools then do Black Scorpion. As mentioned, for the only arc you need to do for them you’re basically stealing from/taking down other bad guys. The later arcs get more heinous though.

 

If you’re going to play through the entire Patron arc though, go Scirocco. He’s basically a well-intentioned extremist. Taking down Serafina isn’t exactly heroic, but she’s messing with people’s free wills and it’s not like you can actually kill her so it’s just “there” on the good-evil scale.

 

Similarly, while the internal monologue implies you’re stopping Scirocco from using the Mallus Mundi because you wanna stay evil, the fact of the matter is that taking away people’s free will (even if that will is to choose villainy) is pretty horrific so I’d like to think it’s something even a hero would choose to do.

 

His third arc is basically stopping the rise of an evil goddess so no moral qualms there and the last arc is the same for all the patrons putting Project Destiny to bed which means thwarting the long term schemes of one of the setting’s biggest villains and walking away free and clear from it.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Chris24601

[Eva Destruction]

I'd say Scirocco is definitely the least evil of the patrons, although I wouldn't describe him as a Rogue, exactly, more like "oh woe is me, for I am cursed to be evil."  So, Emo alignment.  Black Scorpion's alignment is "dumb as a sack of bricks," Mako's is "total psycho."  Ghost Widow is just a villain, although some of her dialogue suggests that villainy's not doing it for her anymore, but she's kinda stuck with Arachnos, being dead and all.

 

I would suggest stopping after the second arc, since the third arc for all the patrons has you furthering Operation Destiny and the last has you hand Recluse his head to prove that you're a better villain than him.

[tanglin]

Thanks, everyone, I've got more clarity for my upcoming Rogue's career now!

[Coyotedancer]

To Scir's credit, after the whole Malleus incident he actually admits that, in retrospect, it really was a bad idea... I remember when I read that bit while I was running the arcs with Grey Kestrel I could just imagine her shaking her head and saying, "I *tried* to tell you that, Im. That kind of thing just never ends well."

 

But then, my head-canon for her is that she DIDN'T actually stop that ritual because Daos told her to. She can't stand the guy. No. Kes stepped in and put an end to it because friends don't let friends essentially commit karmic suicide. Even if that makes said-friends mope and grump about it afterwards. XD 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Luminara]

8 hours ago, FoulVileTerror said:

Also, it's interesting to me . . . many of the Arachnos Contacts are decidedly mercenary.  They're not doing things out of spite or sadism; but instead are just people with ambition who are operating within the practical bounds of the Arachnos culture of "social darwinism" extolled by Lord Recluse.  I mean, that's evil and all . . . but it's not evil simply for evil's sake.

 

It occurred to me that Recluse is less the cardboard bad guy and more a tragic villain.  He didn't set out to become the bad guy.  He wasn't scheming and plotting in the beginning.  He was an ordinary man, with ordinary goals and ordinary dreams, not the least of which was making his own way in the world.  When he became an Incarnate, his life and fate were bound to the Well, effectively leashing him to the Well's goals.  Everything he's done since has been in hope and pursuit of finding a way to free himself, to break free and reassert himself as the one in control of his life.  He despised Statesman not because it's convenient for the story for two former best friends to become rivals, but because Statesman was directly responsible for his bondage, for his servitude to the Well.  He's turned to amassing more and more power, personal, political and financial, in search of some means of freeing himself.  And he's turned the Rogue Isles into a "social darwinism" because he believes it will help people avoid his fate, because he sees it as giving those with the strength, power or ambition the means of taking control of their own destinies.  He wants freedom, for himself and anyone else willing to grasp it and capable of doing so, whatever the cost, even his own soul.

 

Note that I'm not implying that he'd sprout a fluffy bunny tail and start pooping rainbows if he were freed of the Well's influence.  He's definitely become the bad guy, but not as a choice, rather a reaction to what he views as enslavement.

[FoulVileTerror]

That's an excellent read on Recluse, @Luminara.  I hope if anyone continues the lore there that they share your view.

[tanglin]

My rogue is now level 23 and I've run into a problem with playing just rogue-like missions from roguish contacts. I often need to work for a certain contact before being able to get work from a roguish contact. For example, to get Operative Vargas, I need an introduction from Lorenz Ansaldo, who seems really villainous. Using the Find Contact button doesn't give me some of the roguish contacts. Is there a more direct way of getting contacts that I don't know about?

[Coyotedancer]

Run newspaper missions until you get a Mayhem mission (Red side version of the hero side's safe-guards). After you've done the Mayhem, your broker should give you a new contact. It may take a few tries to get the one you want, but IIRC almost all of them will eventually come up that way.

[tanglin]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

Run newspaper missions until you get a Mayhem mission (Red side version of the hero side's safe-guards). After you've done the Mayhem, your broker should give you a new contact. It may take a few tries to get the one you want, but IIRC almost all of them will eventually come up that way.

I see, I'll try that.

 

On a related matter, I was doing Alignment missions and the rogue choice really struck me as more villainous than the supposed villain choice - Smooth Metal. The text says the villain choice is to steal the rest of the rage-inducing metals and plant them all over the island to cause mayhem, but in-game, you only do the stealing part. The rogue choice has you lie and tout the metal as impervium, sell it to Blast Furnace who needs it to repair his armour, and then wait for a bounty from the RIP to put him down when he goes on a rampage. I feel that the rogue choice is more villainous, especially since I had learned from my hero alt that Blast Furnace needs his armour to keep himself from losing control and exploding. I picked the putative villain choice the next time I played this Alignment mission.

[MTeague]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:46 AM, Yomo Kimyata said:

For Patron, I'd go with Scirocco  <snip>

the only problem with Scirocco's patron arc, is if you're a more-or-less decent guy, you kind of want him to succeed.

And the arc has NO option for that. 

 

That's one thing I wish you could do.  TRY to back him, even if the game then railroaded you into failure. 

I get that in terms of storyline he *cannot* succeed, but the player should be allowed to TRY.  (even if they must also hardcoded fail at that attempt)

Edited September 16, 2020 by MTeague