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How could we get you to try

RageusQuitus2

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macskull

macskull

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Admittedly I don’t need super high quality PvP right now. I used to duel Deathvirus a lot and it tends to just make me want training wheels after I’m out of greens in 5 minutes.

I don't really mean it like that, I mean it more in the "this person is gonna be running T4 Incandescence with a tray of T3 greens that heal for 1500HP each and then when they run out or they're almost dead they base TP, rinse and repeat" sense. That sort of PvP isn't fun for the person it's happening to and I can't imagine it's very fun for the person doing it.

 

It doesn't help that some peoples' first experience with PvP is in Recluse's Victory and the players who spend most of their PvP time there tend to be the type of player I just described.

Edited by macskull
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M3z

M3z

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

To expand on my previous point about PvP being generally unpopular across ALL MMO's (i.e. fewer than 5% seem to willingly engage with it) is that part of this is that ANY level/gear-based game is generally horrible for PvP.

 

When you look at the popular PvP platforms they consistently involve player-controlled avatars of roughly equal ability (some systems have options with strengths/weaknesses, i.e. fragile speedster/mighty glacier/jack of all stats) and, if there are power-ups they are things gained inside the PvP environment via the skill of the player.

 

This is PvP as sport where your actual skill matters and that IS immensely popular as a genre.

 

MMO PvP is who can get to max level and put together the best PvP-gear ... then going after people who are not so equipped as the tab-based RNG combat system does the work. There's no skill at all beyond your ability to grind content to get the best gear to let you dominate others.

 

THAT'S why its never been popular in any traditional (i.e. level/gear-based progression with tab-targeting RNG combat) MMO.

I agree that in general MMO pvp is not popular.

 

That said, MMO pvp doesn't boil down to gear and tab-based RNG (atleast the MMO pvp ive played: SWTOR, WOW, Age of Conan, CoH), gear is a barrier of entry for MMO pvp but most people who are serious about pvp have min/max builds (this limits peoples interest) meaning the serious people are on equal footing and people must battle it out using game mechanics/skill etc etc. To say there's no skill beyond your ability to grind gear is just wrong. In pay2win games I'm sure that's the case but not in the MMOs I've played. If it just came down to gear I would've stopped playing A LONG time ago.

 

 

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Troo

Troo

Posted
Posted (edited)

@barrier @Xanatos just because I don't PVP with you doesn't mean I haven't PVP'd.

 

you may not have had a chance to read where I posted Admittedly, I do find "Now targeting Troo, 3, 2, 1 fire" a bit lame

 

"If you hit 75% of the targets called, I'll give you 250M inf and a public apology." ..obviously you feel there is a gap between what you are doing and regular players.

"I suggest you gather 7 friends and go 8v8 over on Indominable. PVP is leagues more difficult than PVE." ..as you stated earlier they are just different. 8v8 is more about builds and coordination.

 

That you both trigger so hard on any perceived criticism regardless of how slight, it is a bit sad. You are making the case for why folks don't..

 

Such a welcoming competitive community.

Edited by Troo
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barrier

barrier

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Troo said:

@barrier @Xanatos just because I don't PVP with you doesn't mean I haven't PVP'd.

 

you may not have had a chance to read where I posted Admittedly, I do find "Now targeting Troo, 3, 2, 1 fire" a bit lame

 

"If you hit 75% of the targets called, I'll give you 250M inf and a public apology." ..obviously you feel there is a gap between what you are doing and regular players.

"I suggest you gather 7 friends and go 8v8 over on Indominable. PVP is leagues more difficult than PVE." ..as you stated earlier they are just different. 8v8 is more about builds and coordination.

 

That you both trigger so hard on any perceived criticism regardless of how slight, it is a bit sad. You are making the case for why folks don't by going so aggro.

Excuses. Expected.

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M3z

M3z

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Lines said:

Since it got bought up, I'm trying to remember how unranked PvP worked on SWTOR. Does everyone get bolstered to more or less the same stats and effectiveness or something like that? Or did gear matter?

From what I remember, you needed to get the weeklies/dailies to get the proper gear. I think the gear had a stat in it that was just for pvp. But it was pretty easy to get all the gear, I think I remember it took 2 weeks or something. Not that bad considering how long it takes to get good gear in a game like WoW (months).

 

Doesn't beat CoH though lol. I can farm a character, farm the resources, get all the accolades in 1-2 days at most(there are others who are WAY faster than me too).

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Troo

Troo

Posted
Posted

@macskull I love that you put a bounty on me.

@barrier honestly, I'm surprised that those trying to increase the number of pvp participants don't distance themselves from you more often.

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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HelBlaiz

HelBlaiz

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, M3z said:

I agree that in general MMO pvp is not popular.

 

That said, MMO pvp doesn't boil down to gear and tab-based RNG (atleast the MMO pvp ive played: SWTOR, WOW, Age of Conan, CoH), gear is a barrier of entry for MMO pvp but most people who are serious about pvp have min/max builds (this limits peoples interest) meaning the serious people are on equal footing and people must battle it out using game mechanics/skill etc etc. To say there's no skill beyond your ability to grind gear is just wrong. In pay2win games I'm sure that's the case but not in the MMOs I've played. If it just came down to gear I would've stopped playing A LONG time ago.

 

 

That leaves anyone curious to TRY pvp with the task of either catching up to the veterans, gearwise, or failing to have any impact whatsoever due to lack of build. One regular pvper with a completed build vs another regular pvper with a completed build might come down to skill, but if someone shows up with SOs just to see what the deal is, I doubt they'd see it that way. THAT, combined with combative individuals (not competitive) who waste newbies because they can are why I don't have much interest to try PvP.

 

Someone mentioned getting a toon to 50 with a full build is more than possible in one day. They mentioned it like that was super easy, barely an inconvenience, but that is one whole day devoted to making a character to TRY pvp. If the character turns out to be hot garbage, then another day has to be spent making a new character and/or a completely new set of IOs.

 

It might be easier than on live,  but that is too much commitment of time/resources just to hang out with the cordial, competitive crowd without feeling like fodder.

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barrier

barrier

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Troo said:

@macskull I love that you put a bounty on me.

@barrier honestly, I'm surprised that those trying to increase the number of pvp participants don't distance themselves from you more often.

 

He didn't actually put a bounty on you, he added money to my pot to encourage you to prove you point. Clearly you needed to deflect from the fact that your point was utterly flawed and now here we are.

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Lines

Lines

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, M3z said:

From what I remember, you needed to get the weeklies/dailies to get the proper gear. I think the gear had a stat in it that was just for pvp. But it was pretty easy to get all the gear, I think I remember it took 2 weeks or something. Not that bad considering how long it takes to get good gear in a game like WoW (months).

 

Doesn't beat CoH though lol. I can farm a character, farm the resources, get all the accolades in 1-2 days at most(there are others who are WAY faster than me too).

Oh, I think it changed quite dramatically. That was the expertise stat, I think, which is now gone from the game.

 

I think more recently it relied more on the other stats. Gear matters in ranked PvP but not/less in unranked.

 

Not that I think that would translate well into CoH. SWTOR's 8 classes x 3 specialisms isn't comparable with the couple thousand character combinations in CoH. But I did enjoy SWTOR unranked PvP a lot.

 

 

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Yomo Kimyata

Yomo Kimyata

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Xanatos said:

 

"Why do you want more people to play the game with?"

lol wat

Yes, that is exactly the question I'm asking!  I am a problem solver by nature, and when people are trying to get more people to PvP, I'm trying to figure out why.  Is it because you can't find *anyone* to PvP with?  Is it because you can't find anyone good enough to give you a challenge?  Is it because you can't find enough noobs to gank?  There's all kinds of answers here.  Believe you me, I understand that it's difficult sometimes to get other players to do exactly what you want when you want, but for me I always have the option to solo.  I get it you can't PvP if there is only one P.  

 

I think a constructive way to get more people to participate in PvP is to explain why you personally enjoy it so much, and why other people without extensive skills or expensive builds would also like it enough to give it a shot so that they would also enjoy it.  I'm certainly not going to try something if I don't think I'm going to enjoy it, no matter how much *you* might enjoy it.  Expand the pie!

 

PvP recipes used to be a good bribe on Live, but that ship has sailed.

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M3z

M3z

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

That leaves anyone curious to TRY pvp with the task of either catching up to the veterans, gearwise, or failing to have any impact whatsoever due to lack of build. One regular pvper with a completed build vs another regular pvper with a completed build might come down to skill, but if someone shows up with SOs just to see what the deal is, I doubt they'd see it that way. THAT, combined with combative individuals (not competitive) who waste newbies because they can are why I don't have much interest to try PvP.

 

Someone mentioned getting a toon to 50 with a full build is more than possible in one day. They mentioned it like that was super easy, barely an inconvenience, but that is one whole day devoted to making a character to TRY pvp. If the character turns out to be hot garbage, then another day has to be spent making a new character and/or a completely new set of IOs.

 

It might be easier than on live,  but that is too much commitment of time/resources just to hang out with the cordial, competitive crowd without feeling like fodder.

In other MMOs yes absolutely.

 

In this game it takes 1-2 days (like I mentioned in a previous post) not that long.

 

I'm not trying to defend how this games gear system works or how screwed up it is to go to a zone and 80-90% of builds are going to be bed. I much prefer i12 style pvp that was using the same rules as pve.

 

And if you wanted to find out if a build you are interested in is good or not, you can just ask the homecoming pvp discord or me and we can tell you where a build is good where or if at all (zones, 1v1, small teams, 8v8s etc).

 

Also, there are communities specifically built for new players (SMOL KB: https://discord.gg/PMdDUyN) so if you are interested in pvp but may not have the perfect build, this is a good place to play.

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