Confused about enhancement sets

[Diantane]

First off, the only recipes I get are at or below my level (makes sense in a way). However I want to make enhancements for my level to progress. Not for where I was before.

 

Second, for sets like Luck of the Gambler, what level is that? Does a high level character use low level sets? Hate to think that I have to equip a set multiple times to stay current with my level, but is that how this works?

[Greycat]

You can always go to the auction house and look for sets if you're wondering about the levels they start or stop at. Just search on them.

 

You can also purchase the recipes (or enhancements) for the sets you *want* to use in the future. Nothing prevents a level 1 from purchasing a level 50 IO.

 

Unlike TOs/DOs/SOs, IOs don't expire. If you buy a low level LOTG, it will keep working from whatever its level is onward. You don't have to keep re-buying the IO. (They can also be catalyzed.)

[Hew]

11 minutes ago, Diantane said:

First off, the only recipes I get are at or below my level (makes sense in a way). However I want to make enhancements for my level to progress. Not for where I was before.

 

Second, for sets like Luck of the Gambler, what level is that? Does a high level character use low level sets? Hate to think that I have to equip a set multiple times to stay current with my level, but is that how this works?

 

Before you get all level-numbered focused, be aware that set ios only work to the level you can exemp access to the enh.

 

If the set doesnt even start until 30, you will still get stat values out of it at, say, 20, but not the set bonuses. (edit: winteros, pvp ios, and atos not withstanding)

 

The solution to this problem is to use attuned set ios, exclusively use pvp/ato/winteros, or generics. If you just want level 50 enhs, slot them at 50 and boost them to +1-5, whatever is needed to max value out within the set-slot requirement for a given set bonus you are chasing.

 

I personally sell all generics recipes and SO enhs to vendors, sell anything on the ah for a recipe that isnt a pvpio, wintero, or extremely valuable io (lotg +7.5 rech for example), and just buy outright attuned enhs that I want.

 

Attuned enhs scale with level (up and down), and the set bonuses are available at _all_ levels the set can be slotted.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Hew

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, Diantane said:

First off, the only recipes I get are at or below my level (makes sense in a way). However I want to make enhancements for my level to progress. Not for where I was before.

 

All drops work that way, with the exception being when you're in a level range during which drops can be rolled from different tables.  For example, at level 22, your drops might come from recipes which have a level range of 10-30, or you might get drops from the recipes in the 20-40 range, and you can even begin getting recipes for the 25-50 range.

 

A drop will always be at your level, with that exception.  If you get a 25-50 drop when you're 22, it will always be level 25, never higher.  Critters below your level can drop recipes which are normal for their (the critters') level range, but if the drop is within your level range, it can be at your level rather than at the critters' level.

 

To get recipes or enhancements above your level, use the market.  To get enhancements which are always at your level (up to the enhancement's normal maximum level), use attuned enhancements.

 

8 minutes ago, Diantane said:

Second, for sets like Luck of the Gambler, what level is that?

 

25-50.

 

8 minutes ago, Diantane said:

Does a high level character use low level sets?

 

Sometimes.  It depends on the set bonus and what the character in question needs.

 

9 minutes ago, Diantane said:

Hate to think that I have to equip a set multiple times to stay current with my level, but is that how this works?

 

IOs have no expiration.  They don't lose effectiveness like TOs, DOs, SOs or HOs if you level higher than their native level.

 

There are two easy ways to bypass having low level IOs that you don't want to replace.  Either attune them so they level with you, or focus on IOs around level 30, where they're comparable to SOs in value.  You can use level 30 IOs from level 27 onward, and you won't have to replace them unless or until you want to, they'll be as effective as SOs in all of your powers even at level 50 (slightly more effective, in fact, due to set bonuses or frankenslotting (frankenslotting is using IOs from different sets to achieve specifically targeted stat improvements in powers without set bonuses.))

[Grouchybeast]

The bonuses on TO/DO/SO Enhancements are determined by their RELATIVE level.  A level 35 Damage SO will provide a 38.33% Damage bonus if your character is level 32, a 33.33% bonus if your character is level 35, and 23.33% if your character is level 38.

 

Common and Set IO bonuses are ABSOLUTE.  A level 35 Common Damage IO will provide a 36.70% Damage bonus whether your character is level 32, 35, 38 or even 50.

 

So one of the advantages of IOs is that you don't need to replace them as often as DO or SO Enhancements (or even at all).  They will provide the same bonus no matter how high your character levels.  Many people will slot Common IOs at level 25, or 30, or 35 and keep them until the character reaches level 50.

 

Quite late in the run of the game on live, the devs introduced the idea of Attuned Set IOs.  This is the HCWiki page about Attuning.  Basically, an Attuned IO will act as if it is an IO of level equal to your character's level (capped at the maximum normal level of the set).  On Live, Attuned IOs were bought on the Paragon Market for real money, or made by using a Catalyst.  On HC, the best way to get Attuned sets is via the Auction House.

 

The HC Auction House functions differently to live.  On HC, the Auction House pools each individually named type of IO together.  E.g. every crafted Thunderstrike Acc/Dam IO is treated by the AH as interchangeable with every other Thunderstrike Acc/Dam IO.  If I place a level 35 Thunderstrike Acc/Dam on the AH, and you bid for a level 50 Thunderstrike Acc/Dam, then the AH will automagically convert my level 35 Thunderstrike Acc/Dam into a level 50, and use it to fill your bid.  This pooling ALSO happens for Attuned IOs.  I.e. if I place a level 35 Thunderstrike Acc/Dam on the AH, and you bid for an Attuned Thunderstrike Acc/Dam, the AH will invisibly do the conversion and deliver my IO to you as an Attuned IO.

 

So you can buy Attuned IOs on the AH, and they will level up along with you.
 

[Sakai]

I have a question about Attuned sets while we are here. 

 

If my set starts at 30 and I drop down to 20 I still don't get the bonuses right?

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, Sakai said:

I have a question about Attuned sets while we are here. 

 

If my set starts at 30 and I drop down to 20 I still don't get the bonuses right?

 

That is correct.  For sets with a minimum level, going more than 3 levels below that turns off the bonuses.  Attuning just allows your IOs to level in concert with you, not to bypass the level restrictions.

[Twisted Toon]

If you are going to go with generic non-set IOs, I would suggest you use the level 25 IOS.

1) They're cheaper to craft than level 30 IOs (if you go the crafting route)

B) The enhancement difference between 3 SOs of your level and 3 level 25 IOs is negligible and will be barely noticed, if noticed at all.

   ii) Granted, the level 30 IOs give a better enhancement boot. Personally, I don't think it is enough to warrant the more expensive crafting cost.

9) Be excellent to each other.

[InvaderStych]

11 hours ago, Sakai said:

I have a question about Attuned sets while we are here. 

 

Ditto.  Different question though.

 

11 hours ago, Luminara said:

Attuning just allows your IOs to level in concert with you, not to bypass the level restrictions.

 

What about max level with regards to enhancement values?  The description "This Enhancement's Effectiveness Scales to Level X" doesn't seem accurate.

 

For example, Theft of Essence: Heal/Absorb has a max level of 30.  Touch of the Nictus:Heal/Absorb has a max level of 50.  On a lvl 50 character of mine they are both showing an identical enhancement value of 42.4%.  Not that I am complaining about Attuned pieces providing more enhancement value than their max level, but um ... anyone know the story here?

 

For reference, the Standard (not attuned) level 30 ToE:Heal pieces provides 34.8%.

 

[Hew]

46 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Ditto.  Different question though.

 

 

What about max level with regards to enhancement values?  The description "This Enhancement's Effectiveness Scales to Level X" doesn't seem accurate.

 

For example, Theft of Essence: Heal/Absorb has a max level of 30.  Touch of the Nictus:Heal/Absorb has a max level of 50.  On a lvl 50 character of mine they are both showing an identical enhancement value of 42.4%.  Not that I am complaining about Attuned pieces providing more enhancement value than their max level, but um ... anyone know the story here?

 

For reference, the Standard (not attuned) level 30 ToE:Heal pieces provides 34.8%.

 

Tooltip is not accurate. It (ToE) is actually capped at the level 30 value. Kind of irritating. I am pretty positive that MRB gives you the accurate value for the slotting, if you do that kind of thing. 😄

 

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Ditto.  Different question though.

 

 

What about max level with regards to enhancement values?  The description "This Enhancement's Effectiveness Scales to Level X" doesn't seem accurate.

 

For example, Theft of Essence: Heal/Absorb has a max level of 30.  Touch of the Nictus:Heal/Absorb has a max level of 50.  On a lvl 50 character of mine they are both showing an identical enhancement value of 42.4%.  Not that I am complaining about Attuned pieces providing more enhancement value than their max level, but um ... anyone know the story here?

 

For reference, the Standard (not attuned) level 30 ToE:Heal pieces provides 34.8%.

 

 

Attuned set IOs which cap at any level below 50 still show the enhancement value at whatever level you're currently at, but it's a bug.  Attuning the enhancement hasn't allowed it to level beyond it's cap, it's just the game engine being slightly too stupid to realize that the enhancement is capped at X.  The maximum enhancement value will actually be whatever it would be at it's level cap.  So, for set IOs capped at 30, even if it's displaying level 50 enhanced value, it's actually only providing level 30 value.

 

And here's some general information (and my personal rules for slotting) for anyone who's still curious...

 

Attuning is excellent for leveling, and exemplaring, and attuned sub-50 cap IOs are useful enough to warrant having them for a long time in a build.  But you'll benefit from replacing them at some point, unless the specific set bonuses they're providing are necessary for a build and can't be replaced easily (or at all) by using other sets.  Once you're at 50, you can keep your level 50 attuned set IOs, or replace them with identical but unattuned IOs and boost them if you prefer.  I keep my attuned set IOs at 50 because I don't like the possibility of exemplaring down and losing set bonuses.  I lose some value from the IOs themselves if I do exemp, but keeping the set bonuses is usually worth that trade-off because set bonuses are global, not power-specific.

 

For frankenslotted IOs, I boost those, +5.  There's no set bonus to lose, and I frankenslotted them because I wanted maximum efficiency, so kicking them a little higher is a good move for me.

 

If a set caps before the level at which I acquire a power, I boost.  Meaning, if I take a power at 44, but the set I'm slotting caps at 30, I'll boost the IOs to 30+5.  I'm going to lose the set bonuses when I lose the power anyway, so I might as well get the most I can out of them.

 

I prefer to slot purples in powers I take later in the game, since the set bonuses are always on, even when exemplared.  PvP set bonuses behave the same way, but when I use PvP sets, rather than specific uniques, I tend to slot them in lower level powers, basically treating them like a normal IO set so I'm benefiting from more than just the bonuses.  ATOs and Winter IOs, I put wherever they make the most sense.  For me, that's typically lower level powers because I can start using them at level 10.  It's an easy way to get some good bonuses early in the game without sacrificing anything.

 

For Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge, I always attune those if they're in defense toggles I'm using.  The extra Defense provided by the LotG is very worthwhile, especially if I'm frankenslotting my defensive powers to save slots.

 

The Steadfast Resistance global is another good candidate for attuning and keeping attuned if it's in a Resistance power you actually use.  It's Resistance/+3% Defense (All), and a lot of people forget the Resistance part of that.  You can shave a slot off of a Res power that way.

 

Most of the other uniques don't need to be attuned or boosted, and that includes procs.  Exceptions are uniques which also provide an enhancement value, like Recharge Reduction or Endurance Reduction.  I'll usually attune those, if they aren't attuned by default (ATOs and Winter IOs are attuned by default.  when you use a catalyst on them, you're turning them into the Superior versions).

 

If you'll never exemp, swap out all of your attuned IOs with unattuned and start slapping the boosters on.  But look at your build and consider running it through a few variations in Mids' first.  50+5 IOs are pretty powerful, and you'll end up with a lot of wasted potential if you're just boosting willy nilly.  I've found that taking a close look at a build, with the intention of moving slots around and changing which sets I'm using to pile up specific bonuses, can have a significant impact.  I'm now on my 17th variation of my Archery/Energy Aura sentinel's build, counting the leveling build, the level 28 respec build, the level 38 respec build and the two aborted Archery/Ninjitsu builds, and I'm only now feeling that it's "right".

 

Also, some IOs have a lower level requirement when attuned.  Not many, but some very good ones.  They don't show up in Mids' as having a different level requirement, but in-game, they do.  That opens up some options when slotting sets and uniques.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Luminara
last paragraph added

[Omega-202]

32 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Attuned set IOs which cap at any level below 50 still show the enhancement value at whatever level you're currently at, but it's a bug.  Attuning the enhancement hasn't allowed it to level beyond it's cap, it's just the game engine being slightly too stupid to realize that the enhancement is capped at X.  The maximum enhancement value will actually be whatever it would be at it's level cap.  So, for set IOs capped at 30, even if it's displaying level 50 enhanced value, it's actually only providing level 30 value.

 

And here's some general information (and my personal rules for slotting) for anyone who's still curious...

 

Attuning is excellent for leveling, and exemplaring, and attuned sub-50 cap IOs are useful enough to warrant having them for a long time in a build.  But you'll benefit from replacing them at some point, unless the specific set bonuses they're providing are necessary for a build and can't be replaced easily (or at all) by using other sets.  Once you're at 50, you can keep your level 50 attuned set IOs, or replace them with identical but unattuned IOs and boost them if you prefer.  I keep my attuned set IOs at 50 because I don't like the possibility of exemplaring down and losing set bonuses.  I lose some value from the IOs themselves if I do exemp, but keeping the set bonuses is usually worth that trade-off because set bonuses are global, not power-specific.

 

For frankenslotted IOs, I boost those, +5.  There's no set bonus to lose, and I frankenslotted them because I wanted maximum efficiency, so kicking them a little higher is a good move for me.

 

If a set caps before the level at which I acquire a power, I boost.  Meaning, if I take a power at 44, but the set I'm slotting caps at 30, I'll boost the IOs to 30+5.  I'm going to lose the set bonuses when I lose the power anyway, so I might as well get the most I can out of them.

 

I prefer to slot purples in powers I take later in the game, since the set bonuses are always on, even when exemplared.  PvP set bonuses behave the same way, but when I use PvP sets, rather than specific uniques, I tend to slot them in lower level powers, basically treating them like a normal IO set so I'm benefiting from more than just the bonuses.  ATOs and Winter IOs, I put wherever they make the most sense.  For me, that's typically lower level powers because I can start using them at level 10.  It's an easy way to get some good bonuses early in the game without sacrificing anything.

 

For Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge, I always attune those if they're in defense toggles I'm using.  The extra Defense provided by the LotG is very worthwhile, especially if I'm frankenslotting my defensive powers to save slots.

You have some very severe misunderstandings here.  

 

1) You DO NOT lose set bonuses if the power is not available.  If you have attuned lvl 30-50 IOs in your lvl 44 power, you still get the set bonuses down to 27.  

 

2) A lvl50+5 LotG will give you more defense, but it means you don't get the bonus recharge below 47.  That is a HUGE loss when exemplaring.  

 

3) Purples are great, an probably better to slot in lower level powers due to the way that examplaring effects enhancement values.  Purples, especially +5ed, give massive values which can counteract the downscaling when exemplaring.  You might have 125% damage (scaled down due to ED) at 50, but that means you still get ~80% at 20.

 

Edit: Reread your post and I misunderstood some of it, but my point 1 still holds.  You definitely don't lose bouses in powers that aren't available.  

Edited September 20, 2020 by Omega-202

[Johnny]

On 9/19/2020 at 3:46 PM, Diantane said:

First off, the only recipes I get are at or below my level (makes sense in a way). However I want to make enhancements for my level to progress. Not for where I was before.

 

Second, for sets like Luck of the Gambler, what level is that? Does a high level character use low level sets? Hate to think that I have to equip a set multiple times to stay current with my level, but is that how this works?

From what you're asking, you are clearly new and learning how the enhancements work. Good for you, and welcome. <wave>

 

Here are some points for you to consider:

1. The strength of crafted IOs are the set bonuses. But as you level your way to 50, you won't necessarily have enough slots for certain powers, such that you can maximize your set bonuses.

2. Crafted IOs, especially the highly desired sets, can be expensive, so you don't want to be replacing a set after you've gotten it.

3. For whatever level a crafted IO is, you no longer have its benefit if you exemplar three levels below that, and it will cease being counted with respect to set bonuses. So if you find yourself exemplaring a lot, you need to keep this in mind (e.g., playing on low-level teams, completing low-level task forces, going into low-level pvp zones, doing old missions through oroborous).

When exemplaring, even if you go to a level at which you don't have the given power, the IO still counts towards set bonuses, so long as you aren't three levels below the IO level.

 

4. As you level to 50, it is better (and cheaper) to be using SOs because a) their individual bonuses are generally better than that of a single IO, and b) you're probably not able to slot enough IOs to get the set bonuses you want (see (1) above).

 

Having said that, I'd suggest a strategy where you just use SOs into your 40's, and then start transitioning into IO sets where you have enough slots in a power to get the set bonuses you want.

 

And for the IO sets that you buy (from auction), get the lowest-level version IOs possible for the given set, so that you have the highest probability that they will be of use to you at low-level (i.e., you will be outperforming others on your team because the bonuses will give you an edge).

Edited September 21, 2020 by Johnny
Correction

[Johnny]

Oh, and for low-level IOs that you obtain through playing the game, hold onto them if you think you'll be slotting them when you're getting near 50. This will require researching the sets and identifying the set bonuses that you want to min-max.

 

If you decide to sell that IO, then don't let it go cheap. Look at the bonuses it provides, and consider how desirable it will be. You might be looking at something that would net you $5M+ influence for a level 10 IO recipe.

[Hew]

45 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

For frankenslotted IOs, I boost those, +5.  There's no set bonus to lose, and I frankenslotted them because I wanted maximum efficiency, so kicking them a little higher is a good move for me.

Ahhh, frankenslotting. You can get in the red for acc/dam/end/rech on attacks by +5ing them with 4 slots. I think it is ALMOST possible on 3, depending on the power and ability to slot more than one purple trip of mixed bonus. Winteros are amazing options for frankenslotting, since you can purple them for stupid values. I do not recommend frankensloting catalyzed winteros though, given the extreme value they have as a set.

[Luminara]

32 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Edit: Reread your post and I misunderstood some of it, but my point 1 still holds.  You definitely don't lose bouses in powers that aren't available. 

 

Okay, thanks.  Today I learned that attuning also allows sets to retain bonuses the way purples and PvP IOs do.  Awesome.  It's a good day when I learn something.  🙂

[Grouchybeast]

4 hours ago, Johnny said:

3. For whatever level a crafted IO is, you no longer have its benefit if you exemplar three levels below that (though you get the set bonuses). So if you find yourself exemplaring a lot, you need to keep this in mind (e.g., playing on low-level teams, completing low-level task forces, going into low-level pvp zones, doing old missions through oroborous)

You have that one backwards.  It's the set bonus that you lose once you exemplar more than 3 levels below the level of the IOs.  The actual enhancements like acc, dam etc will still apply, although the values may be scaled down using the same rules as all enhancements obey when exemplared.

 

4 hours ago, Johnny said:

4. As you level to 50, it is better (and cheaper) to be using SOs because a) their individual bonuses are generally better than that of a single IO, and b) you're probably not able to slot enough IOs to get the set bonuses you want (see (1) above).

Common IOs just about match even-level SOs at level 25, and exceed them at level 30.  Level 40 Common IOs are better than +3 SOs.  Using cheap sets to frankenslot is even more efficient.  Dual-aspect set IOs beat +3 SOs at level 24, and triple-aspect IOs do so at level 20.  Set bonuses can indeed be pretty sweet, but with Attuned IOs being so cheap and easy to get hold of these days, frankenslotting is an extremely attractive option.

[Ironblade]

So many perspectives on how and when to slot IO's.  Here's my take on it.

 

I use SO's up to around level 32-33.  At that point, I start crafting IO sets and plan out most or all of my build to 50 so I can buy and craft my sets and have them sitting in my trays as I level up and get slots for them.  For powers that I'm getting in the 40 level range, I'll typically slot them with level 40+ IO sets for the extra performance.  I figure I won't mind losing the set bonuses when I exemp to low level because, for example, if I'm losing a lot of extra +recovery it doesn't matter because I have fewer powers and fewer toggles spending my END.  For a power where I plan to slot a purple set, I'll keep using SO's right up until I can slot the purples.  An exception is something like the Luck of the Gambler +recharge unique.  I'll always get that at the lowest level possible even if the other pieces of the set are 40 or higher.

 

I do it this way so MOST of the time, I don't need to respec to do my 'final build'.

[Mystic_Cross]

Something that may help you folks that are new to IOs, or just enhancements in general, is Mids Reborn. It's technically a program that you can use to plan out your characters build, but it could also be used to learn about all forms of enhancements, enhancement sets, set bonuses and how they interact with both your character and your powers. You can use it to view what the difference is between enhancing a power with a level 25 set instead of a level 50 set, or what sets are available at different level ranges, what sets a given power can take and really a whole lot more. 

 

 

This post from Felis Noctu has a link to download the program and a link to the Mids forum section, in case you have any trouble getting it up and running, or to ask questions about using it.

[Sarrate]

On 9/20/2020 at 12:02 PM, Omega-202 said:

1) You DO NOT lose set bonuses if the power is not available.  If you have attuned lvl 30-50 IOs in your lvl 44 power, you still get the set bonuses down to 27.  

Was that a change later in the game's life (either close to the snap or Homecoming specific)? Back on Live I always thought set bonuses were lost when exemplared low enough to lose the power...

 

Um, have I been mistaken about that this whole time...? 🤨

[MunkiLord]

14 minutes ago, Sarrate said:

Was that a change later in the game's life (either close to the snap or Homecoming specific)? Back on Live I always thought set bonuses were lost when exemplared low enough to lose the power...

 

Um, have I been mistaken about that this whole time...? 🤨

I think it's just one of those things that was accepted by people as true and not really questioned, I don't think this was something that ever changed. I know I thought that at some point too and this comes up from time to time. 

[Omega-202]

41 minutes ago, Sarrate said:

Was that a change later in the game's life (either close to the snap or Homecoming specific)? Back on Live I always thought set bonuses were lost when exemplared low enough to lose the power...

 

Um, have I been mistaken about that this whole time...? 🤨

It has always been this way.  I think this was one of those things that intuitively doesn't work in a way that makes sense, people thought they understood but didn't and then spread bad information for years until half the population just took the wrong info for granted.  

 

Edit: That's also why I'm always so loathe to comment on things I don't have some degree of in game experience with.  There's so much "common knowledge" that is just wrong, but it's really easy to perpetuate it if you don't have first or at least second hand experience to show you if its right or wrong.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Omega-202

[Sarrate]

 

It has always been this way.  I think this was one of those things that intuitively doesn't work in a way that makes sense, people thought they understood but didn't and then spread bad information for years until half the population just took the wrong info for granted.  

Gotcha. I guess that doesn't surprise me. I tended to design my builds to be exemplar friendly (preferring to use 30-33 IOs vs 50s, or lvl10s for things like Steadfast), but I never actually went and measured / tested things. That's very unintuitive!

 

 

Edit: That's also why I'm always so loathe to comment on things I don't have some degree of in game experience with.  There's so much "common knowledge" that is just wrong, but it's really easy to perpetuate it if you don't have first or at least second hand experience to show you if its right or wrong.  

I hear you. It's a lot easier to do when you play / post a lot, but I know I'm a lot more reserved about posting things these days because I'm not as in the loop with the current state of things.

 

Thanks for the clarification, gives me interesting things to ponder...

 

/wanders off to Mids

[Omega-202]

15 hours ago, Sarrate said:

Thanks for the clarification, gives me interesting things to ponder...

 

/wanders off to Mids

One thing to consider is how lvl 44, 47 and 49 powers might be ones you don't need in day to day exemplaring, but are amazing set mules.  

 

My favorite example is damaging ranged holds with bad activation times or bad proc chances, that might not be great in practical use or available at a low level, but worst case, slap 3 extra slots in and you got yourself 12% fire/cold resist from the ranged and hold winter sets, always on, always available.  I do that with Ice Blast characters who don't need Bitter Freeze Ray.