Def vs Def I'm confused

[TOddSkinRash]

I'm sorry if this is posted somewhere already I was unable to find it.  

 

I'm confused on the defense mechanic.  Is it better to try and get your damage type specific defense (Fire, Ice, Smash, etc.) up or if you focus on melee def, ranged def, and AOE def do these three cover all the same things?  Or are they separate mechanics and should all be considered...

 

Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

 

[MTeague]

the quick answer is of course "it depends".

 

If your powersets include powers that already give you a good chunk of positional defense (Super Reflexes, Ninjistu), then focus on stacking positional defense.

If your powersets include powers that already give you a good chunk of typed defense (Ice Armor, Energy Aura), then focus on stacking typed defense.

 

If you start with nothing (blaster, etc), then I personally prefer focusing on Positional defenses, because there's only 3 kinds (melee, ranged, aoe), whereas there's lots more typed defenses. 

 

But there are people who will say (and are probably right) that because certain types of attacks are vastly more common, you may be better off stacking typed defense, because if can max evne a few of those types that can cover all positions of when that type is in play. Just be aware if you do start with no defense from your primary/secondary, you probably can't softcap ALL typed defenses.

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by MTeague

[DougGraves]

14 minutes ago, TOddSkinRash said:

do these three cover all the same things?  Or are they separate mechanics and should all be considered...

 

They do the same thing and do not stack.  The game figures out which defense is better against a given attack - an aoe fire attack looks at your aoe defense and fire defense.  You use the better defense.  So in theory if you have all positions covered you are done, no need for def by type - and vice versa.

 

 

[Greycat]

Mechanically, the way it works is -

 

Say you have 12% Energy defense, and 40% Ranged defense. Lucky you.

A Rikti takes offense at your existence and fires a blast (energy, ranged) to remedy the situation.

The game will look at the types covered (energy and ranged) and roll against the highest defense, your 40% ranged.

 

Next, something with only melee attacks finds your lack of being dead disturbing. It's energy/melee.

You have that 12% energy defense, but no melee outside of combat jumping (2.5%, I think?)

It will roll against the 12%.

[TOddSkinRash]

Thank you to everyone for clearing that up.  That makes sense and helps.  

Edited October 2, 2020 by TOddSkinRash

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

You have that 12% energy defense, but no melee outside of combat jumping (2.5%, I think?)

 

Depends on the archetype.

[Lunchmoney]

10 hours ago, Greycat said:

A Rikti takes offense at your existence and fires a blast (energy, ranged) to remedy the situation.

 

10 hours ago, Greycat said:

Next, something with only melee attacks finds your lack of being dead disturbing.

Made my morning, thanks 😁

[Gulbasaur]

11 hours ago, TOddSkinRash said:

I'm sorry if this is posted somewhere already I was unable to find it.  

 

I'm confused on the defense mechanic.  Is it better to try and get your damage type specific defense (Fire, Ice, Smash, etc.) up or if you focus on melee def, ranged def, and AOE def do these three cover all the same things?  Or are they separate mechanics and should all be considered...

 

Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

"Actual" defence is calculated off the highest stat that's relevant - e.g. if a melee attack does smashing and fire damage, then the game will look at your melee, smashing and fire defence scores and pick the one you have the highest core on and only use that.

 

Smashing and lethal damage are the types you see most often and they are also piggy-backed onto other types - an attack could do massive energy damage and a teeny tiny bit of lethal damage, but if the lethal defence percentage is higher then that's the only one the game cares about. 

 

For that reason, it's generally advised to try to build up either melee, AoE and ranged defence (because that covers almost everthing) or smashing and lethal (because they're so common). 

 

There's a very, very small number of attacks that don't count as melee, AoE or ranged and don't do smashing or lethal damage. They're almost all psi-based, which is why there are so many IO enhancements that specifically protect you from psi damage. 

 

tldr: Focus on your positional defences or smashing and lethal if you want to make the most of it. Which one is "better" depends on your powerset and build as a whole.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Gulbasaur

[Roderick]

1 hour ago, Gulbasaur said:

if a melee attack does smashing and fire damage, then the game will look at your melee, smashing and fire defence scores and pick the one you have the highest core on and only use that.

Usually, but not always true.

 

Each attack will be flagged with the types of defense that are valid against it. In general, these will match the damage dealt, but there are exceptions. Not many, because even before the game shut down, the devs went through and fixed most of them; the ones left were intentional outliers. For example, there are a few psionic attacks with no positional vector.

 

Also worth noting is that adding damage of a different type will not add an additional vector. For example, Fire Defense doesn't work against attacks buffed with Fiery Embrace or Reactive Interface, unless the attack was a fire attack in the first place.

[Doomguide2005]

Search "Attack Mechanics" on the HCwiki.

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Search "Attack Mechanics" on the HCwiki.

*Rusty Muffler looks up, both alarmed and a bit annoyed. "Why do you want to attack mechanics? What'd we ever do to you?"

 

[FoulVileTerror]

Overcharged for simple repairs and made-up problems, while ultimately not doing a complete repair job on the problem that the vehicle was specifically brought to the garage to address?

Seems like the reason most people want to attack mechanics.

[EmmySky]

Bat your eyelashes and act like a poor defenseless woman who doesnt know any better, then ya get the good deals VT!

 

😉

[Doomguide2005]

On 10/3/2020 at 5:51 PM, Greycat said:

*Rusty Muffler looks up, both alarmed and a bit annoyed. "Why do you want to attack mechanics? What'd we ever do to you?"

 

Attack?  I said search ... or has Rusty got something to hide *glares menacingly* widow claws slowly extending, dripping venom.

[InvaderStych]

On 10/2/2020 at 1:25 PM, Greycat said:

finds your lack of being dead disturbing

 

Some variation of that is inevitably going to become the Battle Cry for one of my alts.

 

"I find your lack of being dead disturbing!"