no red love

[DoctorDitko]

In general, missions written later were better than those made earlier. The devs were better attuned to the system, the writers more knowledgeable of the world.

There were also a few non-gaming professional writers who pitched in.

I'm not as enamored of villainy or praetoriousness (?) as I am of comic heroics, but there is still some good stuff to be played there.

No sense wasting it.

 

I wonder if there is any chance we could have an alignment that encompasses all three?

 

[UltraAlt]

21 hours ago, honoroit said:

I'd argue it's less 'I dislike cov' and more a self perpetuation of 'cannot effectively group with frequency of blue side, so I don't go there'. 

 

Again, example planetside. Why would you elect to join the losing faction, if there weren't incentive to do so. Without incentive to do so gains are quicker on the winning side. Time investment efficacy dictates 'go with winners', and a faction is effectively suppressed or eliminated. 

 

Giving people xp changes the user calculus. 

 

And wth is wrong with you! Don't you like robbing banks and stuff? 

 

As I said before the comparison to Planetside does not work.

I too play Planetside 2.

I could care less if my faction is undermanned or not. I play with my Outfit.

If you aren't in an outfit in Planetside 2, you are missing a huge part of the game.

 

So I'll bring that same analogy here. 

I don't like to join clans or guilds. I have run into too many bad situations with them in most games. (thankfully, the Planetside 2  Outfit I am in is awesome)

The one and only supergroup that I did play with pretty actively in City of Heroes which was a (I believe.. it has been so long) multi-server, multi-supergroup with both hero and villain SGs. Each SG had a night and time slot each week. It was the Repeat Offenders (and did run a villain with them from time to time).

[I had a set of friends that I played with pretty much every day, but they weren't in a supergroup that I had with  friend - filled with our alts]

Stumbled into it randomly because people were actively posting about the activities in LFG while they were running their theme nights.

 

There are other villains online on whatever your server you are on. There are more than 8 villains online at any given time. Team up with them.

 

You shouldn't feel forced to play a hero. But there is no reason to give you additional benefits or to gimp those that want to play heroes simply because you want more thugs (villains) to run with.

 

The "win" is having fun. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, DoctorDitko said:

In general, missions written later were better than those made earlier. The devs were better attuned to the system, the writers more knowledgeable of the world.

There were also a few non-gaming professional writers who pitched in.

I'm not as enamored of villainy or praetoriousness (?) as I am of comic heroics, but there is still some good stuff to be played there.

No sense wasting it.

 

I wonder if there is any chance we could have an alignment that encompasses all three?

 

What? Like the co-op zones?

 

Heroes and Villains are already sent to run Praetorian missions in Night Ward and whatever the other Ward that isn't "Day" Ward for whatever reason.

I'm pretty sure they can team-up there to run missions, but I might be wrong. I know they both get contacts there (or l

 

Rikti Warzone is co-op... isn't it?

 

I think Dark Astoria is as well.

 

Plus we have that mechanic where we can go rogue or vigilante and do missions on the other side... if we really want to do that.

Heck, we can even change alignment entirely to the other side.

 

From a comic book mythology standpoint the wall really shouldn't have been torn-down enough to allow transfer. This used to be a very rare mechanic in comic books until it turned into the whole grey murky mess it is today. The point of the mythology was that there was ultimate good to offset the ultimate evil of the world.

 

But you know all this, Doc, because we discussed how I thought the alignment change mechanic was a bad idea when they were planning on releasing CoH :: Going Rogue.

[Apparition]

Yep, First Ward, Night Ward, Rikti War Zone, and Dark Astoria are all co-op.  All are a lot of fun.

[DoctorDitko]

Fair enough. I was thinking more along the lines of preserving and making use of existing content, rather than in-game rationale.

You are right, it shouldn't be easy to do a heel-face turn, but in comics it can happen. (It does usually involves more than visiting a talking bird.)

 

But it would be nice to make use of all the writing effort that went into this game. How can we do that in a universe-appropriate way?

 

[honoroit]

nononononono! 

 

Wards are good, but no one does them either. In that case they're scared! If it's not council, or carnies if they think themselves spicey, people run away! 

 

We should be robbing banks. and breaking legs... . and using MIND CONTROL on players to lure them to redside with XPs. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by honoroit

[Onemantankwall]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:52 AM, DoctorDitko said:

Fair enough. I was thinking more along the lines of preserving and making use of existing content, rather than in-game rationale.

You are right, it shouldn't be easy to do a heel-face turn, but in comics it can happen. (It does usually involves more than visiting a talking bird.)

 

But it would be nice to make use of all the writing effort that went into this game. How can we do that in a universe-appropriate way?

 

With Null i got a redside team on excel today to a whole 5 members for a very brief time ran with 3 most of the time. Without null everyone would just trade their brutes for scrappers and redside would be 99% dead, cept for you.

[Snarky]

I just came back to the City.  Been away since March.  Started one villain.  A Dark Dark Brute.  To solo every Redside Contact.  I LOVe Redside, it is almost complete immersion.  

 

But, sigh, try to get a DFB team for badges and/or buffs.

 

Try (rofl) to get a DiB team

 

I solo, so Redside is okay for me usually.  But I want to ToT....scan channels...wait....hope....

 

Whayt's a villain gotta do around here ta get some luv?

 

Oh yeah.  I know.

 

The Golden Rollers license plate says it all "NOLOVE"

[Apparition]

Welcome back to the Rogue Isles!

Unfortunately, you’re most likely not going to get a DFB nor a DiB team red side.  I only got enough people to start for about one of every four attempts.  If you want one, you’re going to have to go Rogue and form one up in The Sewers, ‘cause Atlas Park is bad and should feel bad.

 

As for ToT teams, they can sometimes be found in Kallisti Wharf.  I lead an event league in Kallisti Wharf the first day of the Halloween event, and I have seen others do the same since.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Apparition

[Giovanni Valia]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:33 PM, Snarky said:

The Golden Rollers license plate says it all "NOLOVE"

This area in St. Martial sums up the red-side experience. Wouldn't have it any other way though.

 

 

[Ghost]

for the first time ever, I created a toon and joined redside today🙂

and I gotta say............I was very lonely 😞

 

 

[Darmian]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

for the first time ever, I created a toon and joined redside today🙂

and I gotta say............I was very lonely 😞

 

 

What did you create?  I created a Thugs MM.  Yes, still on my own but I got my gang!

[Ghost]

59 minutes ago, Darmian said:

What did you create?  I created a Thugs MM.  Yes, still on my own but I got my gang!

A dual blades scrapper named Lolli-Pop

 

 

Kinda sorta based on the Kotobukiya version of Pennywise

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Ghost

[Techwright]

I tried redside once.  After about a month of being unable to team more than 3 or 4 times briefly, I finally decided to go anti-hero.  

 

It may have been said often, and I've just never heard it, but I've long wondered if perhaps redside could benefit from a designated day akin to "Tanker Tuesday".    Even if it was just once every two weeks, I'd be more inclined to park a character on the redside, knowing he'd have a couple of nights a month of solid teaming.  And hey, if the devs wanted to add in a bonus, say 1.5x XP for the designated day, on top of any rested XP bonus, that'd probably drag a few more over to the red for the day.

 

Alternatively, I'd be happy with a quarterly red-side weekend, with a 2x XP bonus for characters playing in red zones, or on red teams in PVP.   

 

[ILIWAPCT]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:23 AM, Apparition said:

 

This isn't just a super-hero game.  It's a super-hero and super-villain game.  Remember that City of Villains was sold as a separate game for years?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice that "City of Heroes" isn't mentioned on the box anywhere at all?  (I still have two of these boxes with all of their contents, BTW.)

 

So yes, villains are a faction, heroes are a faction, and there does need to be balance between the two sides.   FWIW, while blue side has more players, red side has better quality players, and honestly I'd rather play another game entirely than be forced to play blue side.

 

I play villains 100% of the time.

 

 

Villain missions are indeed better.  They're better written than blue side missions on average, require less traveling to different zones during mission arcs and strike forces, and the red side mobs present a greater challenge than blue side mobs from level one on up, (which is partly why the red side player base is better than the blue side player base on average).

 

Having all red side players congregate to one server isn't the answer.  This isn't City of Heroes, (and oh, we have red side on one server).  It is City of Heroes and City of Villains.  For a healthy City of Villains population, it needs to be spread throughout the various Homecoming servers.  In addition, people have prejudices against various servers.  Some people don't like Indomitable because it has a significant PvPer population.  Reunion is on another continent than most red side players.  Some people don't like Excelsior because some people consider it the Freedom of Homecoming.  Me personally, you couldn't pay me to touch Everlasting with a ten foot pole, (no offense meant).  Not only that, but some of us have friends that exclusively play blue side (because they are silly or just don't know any better), and we can still play with them as Rogues.  Having one concentrated red side server would just cut us off even more from the blue side population.

 

It is just not a tenable solution, as it's not really a solution at all.

QFT

Almost 50 alts all RED SIDE

[ILIWAPCT]

On 10/28/2020 at 12:27 PM, UltraAlt said:

As I said before the comparison to Planetside does not work.

I too play Planetside 2.

I could care less if my faction is undermanned or not. I play with my Outfit.

If you aren't in an outfit in Planetside 2, you are missing a huge part of the game.

 

So I'll bring that same analogy here. 

I don't like to join clans or guilds. I have run into too many bad situations with them in most games. (thankfully, the Planetside 2  Outfit I am in is awesome)

The one and only supergroup that I did play with pretty actively in City of Heroes which was a (I believe.. it has been so long) multi-server, multi-supergroup with both hero and villain SGs. Each SG had a night and time slot each week. It was the Repeat Offenders (and did run a villain with them from time to time).

[I had a set of friends that I played with pretty much every day, but they weren't in a supergroup that I had with  friend - filled with our alts]

Stumbled into it randomly because people were actively posting about the activities in LFG while they were running their theme nights.

 

There are other villains online on whatever your server you are on. There are more than 8 villains online at any given time. Team up with them.

 

You shouldn't feel forced to play a hero. But there is no reason to give you additional benefits or to gimp those that want to play heroes simply because you want more thugs (villains) to run with.

 

The "win" is having fun. 

Before  the nerfs the original Planetside was great. Even if you   felt like  solo, team, faction or undermanned that evening. The masses would zerg, but with a dedicated squad you could turn the tide of battle. The legendary fights weren't in the bases they were in the towers. Alas it only lasted a few months until things were nerfed so that it was like every other pvp game. 

 

Tried P2 but it was just like every other pvp game. I have fond memories of COV and the original Planetside back in the day. Funny thing is, I'm not a PVP'er. In the original Planetside  I could  make a meaningful contribution to the War effort even though I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Covert Ops hacking a base. Mobile Medical to direct the Zerg respond. Or strapping up and making a last stand in a tower where the multiple targets negated my horrible aim. Tactically there were always options besides the vanilla PVP grunt shooting.    

[BlackenBlue71]

Redside is fun, but isn't perfect. There are plenty of times you feel more like a henchman instead of a villain in training, and too much villain fighting other villain situations. And why would Arachnos Soldiers and Widows - loyal ones, at least - accept missions that have them fighting other Arachnos? Some missions just seem like being a hero who can hurt civilians running around like chickens with rtheir heads cut off than an actual villain. 

 

There's too much street level robbery and stealing items for pure greed, and not enough raving lunatic/mad scientist type missions. I'd love to be able to unleash a giant robot or monster (or a pack of monsters) that go on a rampage throughout the zone. 

 

 

[ILIWAPCT]

3 hours ago, BlackenBlue71 said:

Redside is fun, but isn't perfect. There are plenty of times you feel more like a henchman instead of a villain in training, and too much villain fighting other villain situations. And why would Arachnos Soldiers and Widows - loyal ones, at least - accept missions that have them fighting other Arachnos? Some missions just seem like being a hero who can hurt civilians running around like chickens with rtheir heads cut off than an actual villain. 

 

There's too much street level robbery and stealing items for pure greed, and not enough raving lunatic/mad scientist type missions. I'd love to be able to unleash a giant robot or monster (or a pack of monsters) that go on a rampage throughout the zone. 

 

 

I've seen this general theme before ...

 

First Point.

Did you know that not everyone that lives in the United States is rich?

Some of them can't afford to eat or feed themselves.

 

Second Point,  have you see the show "The boys"

In that world, you have the  "wealthy" seven.  You also have heroes hooked on drugs or regenerating  body parts removal to make a quick buck.

 

To tie it all together, just because you live in the United States or get "Super Powers" doesn't mean you're going to have a remarkable existence.

The "masses"  in the "game"  rush to the get rich quick/power level AE missions instead of well thought out AE missions. 

 

COV/United States just provide you the tools, you still have to set out and make it remarkable.

 

The sad thing, no modern games even come close to the tools provided by COV.

Since COV shutdown, the closest I've come to being inspired is Overlord which is a anime/light novel and sadly not a DMMORPG.

 

[Moka]

I know I'm a dirty Everlasting person here, but if you ever find ourselves in our humble abode, I've been making a big effort to bring redside to life over there with event nights!

[Arli]

42 minutes ago, Moka said:

I know I'm a dirty Everlasting person here, but if you ever find ourselves in our humble abode, I've been making a big effort to bring redside to life over there with event nights!

Nothing against Everlasting folks, of course - but this is about redside on Excelsior, not on Everlasting. I understand you mean well, but we'd like to promote activities/events on our own server - from my perspective it's a bit out of place for other folks to advertise things for other servers if it's not related to Excelsior. 😛

[UltraAlt]

On 11/23/2020 at 12:03 AM, ILIWAPCT said:

Tactically there were always options besides the vanilla PVP grunt shooting.    

There still are in Planetside 2. If it was just grunt shooting, I wouldn't be playing it.

I'm not the best shot in the world either. There are plenty of tactics that someone that can't aim (pretty much at all) that can change the tide of battle ... sometimes in huge ways.

Planetside 2 has massive battles(for anyone that doesn't know) and a 96+vs96+ in a region happens. that's just in one region on a map with no zoning between regions and dozens of regions on a continent. It is also not just ground troops, but also ground vehicles, aircraft, resource collection, base building, etc.

 

But I'm here to play City of Heroes and not defend Planetside 2.

[UltraAlt]

15 hours ago, ILIWAPCT said:

Second Point,  have you see the show "The boys"

In that world, you have the  "wealthy" seven.  You also have heroes hooked on drugs or regenerating  body parts removal to make a quick buck.

So here we go.

Garth Ennis deconstructor of American superhero comics being referenced as to what superheroes are about.

Quote from his Wiki-page "Despite having written a number of superhero stories for Marvel and DC, Ennis is noted for subverting the genre and mocking the characters in this work."

 

No. His work is not a good example of what superhero comics are about. His works are for those that disrespect American superhero comics and work to break the American superhero mythos.

15 hours ago, ILIWAPCT said:

The sad thing, no modern games even come close to the tools provided by COV.

All the tools that are there in CoV are in and because of City of Heroes.

Take the mechanics that were part of CIty of Heroes out of the game and COV can claim maybe supergroup bases (this was boxed with CoV to get CoH players to buy it because originally you couldn't have a base unless you owned CoV) and PVP. Otherwise, CoV was always just subpart of City of Heroes.

Sure you could originally purchase it alone, but I'm sure if the records were there to check, there was a very small percentage of players that owned CoV that didn't have City of Heroes. 

[UltraAlt]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:23 AM, Apparition said:

Notice that "City of Heroes" isn't mentioned on the box anywhere at all?  (I still have two of these boxes with all of their contents, BTW.)

Still have the CoV box and the Preorder COV box from GameStop.

 

CoV was Episode 6 of City of Heroes called "Along Came a Spider" (end of 2005). Though  you could buy it and play it stand alone, it gave superheroes access to superhero bases - without it, heroes didn't have access to super bases without buying CoV until CoV was  integrated into City of Heroes in 2008.

 

I'm sure if there were records available (and there maybe some) that the percentage of players that bought CoV and did not buy CoH (or already own COH) was very small.

 

If you want to play Villains, that's fine, but it is a cage of your own making.

 

The first City of Heroes character I ever made was based on a Champions Campaign that I played in where the players played super villains.

That being said, I made 10 characters the first day I played.

I had bought the City of Heroes not long after it came out and had plenty of time to read and reread, and reread the book while I was saving up to buy the parts to build a computer to be able to play it. I had plenty of time to design characters that I wanted to play before I could even play the game .... add I didn't "create" all the characters that I had pre-designed on the first day that I played.

 

Similar situation for CoV.  Before the Beta was over I had a slate of characters ready to be created when CoV came out.

I never liked CoV as much as City of Heroes.

Honesty, I pretty much hated the Praetorian stuff even in the beta. Buzzing fluorescent lights have to be the most annoying video game sound ever created. 

[ILIWAPCT]

21 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

So here we go.

Garth Ennis deconstructor of American superhero comics being referenced as to what superheroes are about.

Quote from his Wiki-page "Despite having written a number of superhero stories for Marvel and DC, Ennis is noted for subverting the genre and mocking the characters in this work."

 

No. His work is not a good example of what superhero comics are about. His works are for those that disrespect American superhero comics and work to break the American superhero mythos.

All the tools that are there in CoV are in and because of City of Heroes.

Take the mechanics that were part of CIty of Heroes out of the game and COV can claim maybe supergroup bases (this was boxed with CoV to get CoH players to buy it because originally you couldn't have a base unless you owned CoV) and PVP. Otherwise, CoV was always just subpart of City of Heroes.

Sure you could originally purchase it alone, but I'm sure if the records were there to check, there was a very small percentage of players that owned CoV that didn't have City of Heroes. 

My point was  tangential about comics. People who don't live in the United States or have Super Powers have a dream, that these wishes will change their life. 

 

Just because you live in the United States doesn't mean you will have a remarkable existence.

Just because you get Super Powers doesn't mean you will have a remarkable existence.

 

These are just tools , you still have to set out and make your existence remarkable.

 

Also to reference the original poster wanting to "unleash a giant monster" have you seen the first "Incredibles" movie, Syndrom :)

 

 

 

[ILIWAPCT]

22 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

There still are in Planetside 2. If it was just grunt shooting, I wouldn't be playing it.

I'm not the best shot in the world either. There are plenty of tactics that someone that can't aim (pretty much at all) that can change the tide of battle ... sometimes in huge ways.

Planetside 2 has massive battles(for anyone that doesn't know) and a 96+vs96+ in a region happens. that's just in one region on a map with no zoning between regions and dozens of regions on a continent. It is also not just ground troops, but also ground vehicles, aircraft, resource collection, base building, etc.

 

But I'm here to play City of Heroes and not defend Planetside 2.

When PlanetSide was first released, you started in safe zone.

First this allows you to familiarize yourself with the interface.

Second you can familiarize yourself with the map, destinations such as cert training and war zone options.

When you were ready you could decide how and where to enter the war zone; air drop, walking, this spot or that spot. Progression.

COV also does this with "Breakout"

 

P2 just dropped me in the middle of the action, still the same grunt I left after the nerfs. While participating in massive battles is appealing, the pen is mightier than the sword. In the original I quickly saw how I could get the mindless (zerg) grunts who just want to pew pew to do my bidding. I saw Vehicles as tools to accomplish objectives, secondarily they could kill people too. But I gotta admit I was one hell of a Mag-mower pilot. 

 

Planetside had a grief systems whereby if you killed too many friendlies you would progressively be locked out of combat. The Vanu Sovereignty Tank was fast. On open fields, Instead of shooting the enemy  you could more quickly run then over (kill). If you weren't skilled the grief system would quickly lock you out of combat due to accidentally  running over friendlies along with the enemy. One memorable  time I killed a enemy right next to a half-dead friendly,  stopped adjacent to him and chatted to him to hop in the rear tank gun.