Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Naraka]

32 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

because then you are infringing on troller territory with 5x the dmg output.  i dont know what it really is but it feels like 5x.  Not to mention - its a secondary effect and it still has an arsenal of that secondary effect that is quite good as it is.

You're bouncing back and forth between "too good" and "useless". And how is adding -regen and -special not infringing on support/debuffers?

 

Like I said, it's one thing to say something was too effective and needs alteration and another to say "you don't need that Mez but you do need this debuff".

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

You're bouncing back and forth between "too good" and "useless". And how is adding -regen and -special not infringing on support/debuffers?

 

Like I said, it's one thing to say something was too effective and needs alteration and another to say "you don't need that Mez but you do need this debuff".

No, I'm not. im saying its fine as it is.  Have you tested the set extensively to see this fact?

 

I'm also saying its not worth throwing it out of balance for an effect thats already there, useful, and fine as it is at the risk of losing dmg output.

 

Like someone earlier said if you want more controls you should probably be looking at a Troller, or domi.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

7 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Luckily, there are now 2 AoEs with 20% stun chances each. Also, anything you could 1-shot stun can likely just be 1-shot by EM.

 

If you are concerned about hard-Crowd Controlling multiple targets tho, there may be a different AT

This - any more controls than what it does currently - is outside of what a melee AT is targeted to do.  Its currently chefs kiss in terms of balance and playability - possibly the best ever.

[Naraka]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

No, I'm not. 

Ahem:

On 10/31/2020 at 2:40 PM, Infinitum said:

Because it wouldnt be effective anyway.

 

If you want solid control thats what controllers do.

 

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

im saying its fine as it is.  Have you tested the set extensively to see this fact?

 

And good for you, I'm not suggesting the "as is" to be altered, just to keep the same purpose of the Stun replacement which is easily doable.

 

7 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

I'm also saying its not worth throwing it out of balance for an effect thats already there, useful, and fine as it is at the risk of losing dmg output.

 

So what you're saying is, if PC stunned it's primary target 100% rather than EP doing it using EF, that wouldn't be balanced?

 

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

Like someone earlier said if you want more controls you should probably be looking at a Troller, or domi.

Dark Armor says hi.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Naraka said:

Ahem:

 

And good for you, I'm not suggesting the "as is" to be altered, just to keep the same purpose of the Stun replacement which is easily doable.

 

So what you're saying is, if PC stunned it's primary target 100% rather than EP doing it using EF, that wouldn't be balanced?

 

Dark Armor says hi.

None of that disproves what I'm saying, especially taking it out of context like you did but nice try.

 

I think you are flailing at a want for you personally that isnt a need for the set.  Because it does what you are describing really well as myself and others have mentioned.

 

Have You tested the set extensively?

 

If not - we are done here.

[Infinitum]

On 10/31/2020 at 2:40 PM, Infinitum said:

Because it wouldnt be effective anyway.

 

If you want solid control thats what controllers do.

 

So either you give up the dmg of you go with the stacking stuns which is reliable as is.

 

It shouldnt have both.

 

I would be irritated if I lost guaranteed dmg for a guaranteed stun the set doesnt need.

For the record that is what I actually said and it was in reference to the power stun more than anything.

[Naraka]

8 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

None of that disproves what I'm saying, especially taking it out of context like you did but nice try.

 

I think you are flailing at a want for you personally that isnt a need for the set.  Because it does what you are describing really well as myself and others have mentioned.

 

Have You tested the set extensively?

 

If not - we are done here.

I'm not disproving anything. I'm just trying to get people to say what they mean rather than deflect to "it has AoE now".

 

Rather than trying to point out people's "failed logic" why not try to see things from their perspective (I think there's an "e" word for that).

 

I even asked if it still has the general CC capabilities it did before with a minorly slotted Stun but since no one is talking about that I'm pointing out that particular complexity. If you have a problem with that, I don't know why you bothered quoting my post directed to @Galaxy Brain.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Naraka

[Infinitum]

Just now, Naraka said:

I'm not disproving anything. I'm just trying to get people to say what they mean rather than deflect to "it had AoE now".

 

Rather than trying to point out people's "failed logic" why not try to see things from their perspective (I think there's an "e" word for that).

 

I even asked if it still has the general CC capabilities it did before with a minorly slotted Stun but since no one is talking about that I'm pointing out that particular complexity. If you have a problem with that, I don't know why you bothered quoting my post directed to @Galaxy Brain.

Have You tested the set?

[Naraka]

Just now, Infinitum said:

Have You tested the set?

Yeah, I did. I ported my dark/em tanker over.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Naraka said:

Yeah, I did. I ported my dark/em tanker over.

Then you should be able to see how reliable the stacking stuns are as it is.

[Naraka]

2 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Then you should be able to see how reliable the stacking stuns are as it is.

Only after using another power do I get a less potent effect. The potency isn't even my criticism, it's the ease of which they can retain the functionality.

 

I'm sorry you seem to be on some kind of defensive loop that you forgot why I'm posting. 

[Infinitum]

11 minutes ago, Naraka said:

even asked if it still has the general CC capabilities it did before with a minorly slotted Stun but since no one is talking about that I'm pointing out that particular complexity

To answer you yes I think it does, but you also have to account for its increased kill speed - if there was a loss of stun capability you wont notice it because you are killing almost twice as fast now.

 

But its a regular occurrence to stun a +4 AV - for reference it was bobcat on the maria Jenkins arc -  and I have been testing it since mid July across all 4 Ats.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

sorry you seem to be on some kind of defensive loop that you forgot why I'm posting

I'm not on a defensive loop - and was that even really necessary to say?

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Only after using another power do I get a less potent effect. The potency isn't even my criticism, it's the ease of which they can retain the functionality.

Continued use of your powers increase your chance and stacks - no you cant just hit one power and perma stun anymore but all the attacks are faster now and you get more chance to stun just by using them.  All the while damaging the crap out of anything in your way.

[Infinitum]

8 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Re: Stun

 

On any target worth specifically stunning as opposed to just killing, you would still need a 1-2 punch to stun even before this new version of EM. 

 

Needing to set up a new 1-2 punch that just so happens to do more damage and have side effects is a net boost, and does not invalidate the cottage rule as there are no slotting changes to any effected powers.

Again this post is still accurate as to how it functions.

[Naraka]

2 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

To answer you yes I think it does, but you also have to account for its increased kill speed - if there was a loss of stun capability you wont notice it because you are killing almost twice as fast now.

 

But its a regular occurrence to stun a +4 AV and I have been testing it since mid July across all 4 Ats.

My concern isn't with kill speed since I built the character to control moreso than damage. I still argue it could have been set too have the stun on the primary target of PC and kept the complexity to a minimum as that was a complaint I empathized with from the thread in the suggestion forums.

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

I'm not on a defensive loop - and was that even really necessary to say?

You're literally telling me I'm wrong, I'm failing to read or understand and badgering me about my feedback. Did you ask yourself if that was really necessary to do that?

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Naraka said:

My concern isn't with kill speed since I built the character to control moreso than damage. I still argue it could have been set too have the stun on the primary target of PC and kept the complexity to a minimum as that was a complaint I empathized with from the thread in the suggestion forums.

Again, control is a secondary effect, if you are living and dying by that, you are looking for a troller or a Dominator - which also has Energy Assault.

 

3 minutes ago, Naraka said:

You're literally telling me I'm wrong, I'm failing to read or understand and badgering me about my feedback. Did you ask yourself if that was really necessary to do that?

I am when what you are wrong about is how the set functions - which regarding stuns - it works and performs to a high standard.

 

So yes it is necessary to point that out when you are either missing that point or misdirecting that point.

[ScarySai]

47 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Dark Armor says hi.

Dark armor main here, oppressive gloom and cloak of fear are generally considered skippable powers and it's really not comparable.

 

This thread isn't for petty cat fights, so kindly get to testing or go away.

[Naraka]

11 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Again, control is a secondary effect, if you are living and dying by that, you are looking for a troller or a Dominator - which also has Energy Assault.

 

And since it is merely an inconsequential secondary effect that fits perfectly good within the set moreso than some of the replacement effects, there really shouldn't be a reason it'd be controversial.

 

And if stacking Mez was something preserved for control ATs only, then just say that otherwise, working around EF for current baseline Mez is the objection I'm making.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Naraka

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

And since it is merely an inconsequential secondary effect that fits perfectly good within the set moreso than some of the replacement effects, there really shouldn't be a reason it'd be controversial.

 

And if stacking Mez was something preserved for control ATs only, then just say that otherwise, working around EF for current baseline Mez is the objection I'm making.

Ok, look nobody here said its inconsequential.

 

The point is its there - and it works flawlessly in the New format.

 

If You want it to be any better - troller are Dominator have the purple AT badges.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

Dark armor main here, oppressive gloom and cloak of fear are generally considered skippable powers and it's really not comparable.

 

This thread isn't for petty cat fights, so kindly get to testing or go away.

Oppressive Gloom applies a passive mag 2 stun that can last from 8 to 10 seconds and is why I can make a control oriented melee with the help of Energy Melee.

 

I wonder under what conditions Oppressive Gloom is skippable.

[M3z]

I just wanna see those big ol' orange numbers baby.

[Bopper]

23 minutes ago, M3z said:

I just wanna see those big ol' orange numbers baby.

Test out Energy Melee on Brainstorm (Beta). You'll weep tears of joy at the orange numbers. 

[M3z]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

Test out Energy Melee on Brainstorm (Beta). You'll weep tears of joy at the orange numbers. 

I have, and I am shaking and crying (in joy).

[ScarySai]

4 minutes ago, M3z said:

I have, and I am shaking and crying (in joy).

Shaking from the reverberations in the earth as fragments of your opponent's skull are sent into the stratosphere?