Jaunt / Combat Teleport

[Faultline]

Are there problems with this power? Should anything be done to this power in PVP maps? Discuss.

 

[Glacier Peak]

I'm planning on testing these two out later this week, hopefully sooner than later. I'll report back any findings in the beta forum section. 

[reib]

Jaunt Is fine. Problem Is jaunt+Jump packs. Without Jump packs i dont have any problem with jaunt. It is a funny mechanic. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by reib

[macskull]

I think it's far less controversial in zone than in arena, but I think Jaunt's prevalence (and perceived necessity to the point where most PvP builds now forego Hasten to pick up Speed of Sound) is a symptom rather than the problem. What exactly that problem is is a different discussion and it's probably not one you'll get the PvP community (or arena community at least) to agree on completely.

[ABlueThingy]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

I think it's far less controversial in zone than in arena, but I think Jaunt's prevalence (and perceived necessity to the point where most PvP builds now forego Hasten to pick up Speed of Sound) is a symptom rather than the problem. What exactly that problem is is a different discussion and it's probably not one you'll get the PvP community (or arena community at least) to agree on completely.

Could you elaborate?  I'm not much of a PVPer myself so I've not heard about Jaunt being used in PVP.

[reib]

1 hour ago, ABlueThingy said:

Could you elaborate?  I'm not much of a PVPer myself so I've not heard about Jaunt being used in PVP.

Sorry but if you don't do PvP why are you interested in learning more about the topic? if you are so interested don't you think it's better to try pvp and see for yourself how it works?

[M3z]

3 hours ago, ABlueThingy said:

Could you elaborate?  I'm not much of a PVPer myself so I've not heard about Jaunt being used in PVP.

Jaunt as it relates to the arena community is it provides an alternative defensive option other than just tanking a spike with greens or phasing. If you are paying good attention you can jaunt out of danger before or during the initial parts of a spike usually living. People tend to jaunt up and use arena temp jetpack (raptor pack) and wait til the coast is clear before coming back down.

 

Before this it was, you'd force a target to phase during a spike, then while they were in NoPhase (aka they can't use phase again for 2 mins) you'd kill them and it was really hard to do anything about it. Now you have another defensive option to survive a spike.

 

The issue in the arena community is we're in this meta of everyone jaunting/raptor packing around and it creates this very unfun/boring gameplay (in my opinion and a lot of other people I've talked to).

 

THAT SAID, there needs to be more defensive options outside of just phase but jaunt is just so stupid that it's basically like having a 16 second(the time it takes to get 2 charges of jaunt to jaunt up) get out of jail card. Not to mention it's very advantageous to just pre jaunt up all the time just to get high ground and deter spikes on yourself leading to situations where teams just have half their team flying around. It looks as stupid as it sounds.

 

I have a couple of propositions/ideas:

 

1. Increase cooldown on jaunt, maybe double it or triple it.

2. Remove "global cooldown/rooting" after jaunting, meaning you can instantly attack or jaunt after jaunting. For me this would help with jaunt chasing, sometimes I jaunt chase and the guy is no where to be found because I have no idea if they jaunted up twice and then forward or jaunted up 3 times. Once they are out of the render zone it's hard to chase people with jaunt because you just have no idea where they are and the .3 second delay really seems to mess me up personally. I like the mobility in COH so I would totally be okay with everyone zipping around at a million miles per hour.

3. Add a different NoPhase condition to jaunt, Maybe if you Jaunt 4 times during a 60 second duration a different NoPhase(could be called NoJaunt) timer is applied to you (different from regular phase). Meaning you'd have 2 different times you could escape with jaunt per minute as well as being able to phase once every 2 mins. This would reset on death.

 

Anyway, these are just some ideas I'm not really sold on any of the numbers I've provided, these are just rough ideas to work off of or throw away. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING DO ALL OF THESE IDEAS TOGETHER. Really if there were just more mechanics in the game teams had to juggle other than just damage/heals (this is why I keep bringing up slows guys 🙂 ) then I think things would also be better for everyone.

Edited November 4, 2020 by M3z

[Alouu]

A couple more "just ideas".

 

4. Prevent it benefiting from range bonuses, may allow someone at the apex of their jump to hit a single follow-up attack on someone who's just jaunted straight up.

5. Have it apply -fly for a few seconds. Preventing raptor packing at the top and forcing the expenditure of multiple jaunt charges to stay up in the air.

 

Whether any of this needs to apply to combat teleport, I'm not sure, since it doesn't come packaged with super speed.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Alouu

[ABlueThingy]

23 hours ago, reib said:

Sorry but if you don't do PvP why are you interested in learning more about the topic? if you are so interested don't you think it's better to try pvp and see for yourself how it works?

I'm sorry, I was trying to provoke more discussion. Both for my own ignorance and because it might help for other people to read about PVPer thoughts.

 

21 hours ago, M3z said:

[clip for space]

Thank you! That was enlightening!

 

A follow up question: Do the changes to the powexec_target change anything?  With the targeting macros in PVE you can track Tsoo teleporters through walls even because it ignores line of sight.  Hypothetically you could juke behind walls or under cover and then teleport out to hit your target.  And you wouldn't have to aim when teleport-following the target.

 

If you had a teammate hidden or a stationary pet you might even be able to rig a set of binds/macros to bounce back to them after you attack.

[M3z]

33 minutes ago, ABlueThingy said:

I'm sorry, I was trying to provoke more discussion. Both for my own ignorance and because it might help for other people to read about PVPer thoughts.

 

Thank you! That was enlightening!

 

A follow up question: Do the changes to the powexec_target change anything?  With the targeting macros in PVE you can track Tsoo teleporters through walls even because it ignores line of sight.  Hypothetically you could juke behind walls or under cover and then teleport out to hit your target.  And you wouldn't have to aim when teleport-following the target.

 

If you had a teammate hidden or a stationary pet you might even be able to rig a set of binds/macros to bounce back to them after you attack.

The changes might just mean people may occasionally jaunt through a building here or there, but overall because powerexec_target doesn't track moving targets that well (you end up far behind the target usually) in combination with the slight delay after coming out of jaunt animation means there's a good chance your spike timing won't be synchronized. I think will mean people will opt to just continue spiking the old fashioned way. People generally save their jaunt charges for going up to raptor pack, if a target caller sees you wasting your jaunt charges pulling off crazy horizontal maneuvers you are at risk of getting called.

[ABlueThingy]

It seemed like there was less of a delay on CT compared to Jaunt but I dunno if that is enough

[macskull]

CT has half the range of Jaunt and isn't affected by range bonuses plus requires picking an extra power pool, so it's unlikely to see much use in organized PvP.

Edited November 5, 2020 by macskull

[Phoenix']

How about making it interuptable? You can pre-evade with jaunt but not while being already attacked?
Although you will have people permanently spaming attacks to everybody...

[MoisesG]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:01 AM, reib said:

Sorry but if you don't do PvP why are you interested in learning more about the topic? if you are so interested don't you think it's better to try pvp and see for yourself how it works?

and that attitude is why most people dont pvp and it is practically dead.

it was just a question.

[Hot2]

2 hours ago, MoisesG said:

and that attitude is why most people dont pvp and it is practically dead.

it was just a question.

I was thinking the same until i read the second part of their response. That was an even more legitimate question. It makes far more sense to experience something yourself, than question something you know absolutely nothing about. next caller 🗣

[M3z]

3 hours ago, MoisesG said:

and that attitude is why most people dont pvp and it is practically dead.

it was just a question.

It's because the mechanics don't make sense in pvp, not because some guy on the forums said a mean thing

[reib]

4 hours ago, MoisesG said:

and that attitude is why most people dont pvp and it is practically dead.

it was just a question.

I didn't want to be rude, it was just an invitation to try out the mechanics for yourself, which anyway would have made him understand better than any explanation. at the same time it seemed a bit paradoxical to have such a lively interest in something never tried.

[MoisesG]

1 hour ago, M3z said:

It's because the mechanics don't make sense in pvp, not because some guy on the forums said a mean thing

Agreed, this makes sense.

[MoisesG]

51 minutes ago, reib said:

I didn't want to be rude, it was just an invitation to try out the mechanics for yourself, which anyway would have made him understand better than any explanation. at the same time it seemed a bit paradoxical to have such a lively interest in something never tried.

 

I totally agree with you about experiencing pvp for oneself.

And i think that natural curiosity from non-pvpers should be encouraged with the goal to increase pvp across all zones and servers.

 

I am not a hardcore pvper and never was, but i always enjoyed zoned pvp in all zones specially Sirens Call because (at least to me) due to the level range, it provided the most flexibility to allow a non-pvper, non-IOd player to have some fun.

I killed some, i died some, but had lots of fun seeing the tides of war swing from side to side. 🙂

 

Recluse's Victory was a bit too dependent on fully IOd pvp builds for a casual pvper like me.

 

Maybe with the new upcoming EM changes i might make a stalker, IF (big if) i can come up or find a pvp build, since i have no clue how to build for todays pvp.

 

But i truly feel that this game has the most fun pvp of any MMO i've played, certainly the fastest, most movement driven, and should be made to flourish like it was back in i6 - i10.

[America's Angel]

25 minutes ago, MoisesG said:

Maybe with the new upcoming EM changes i might make a stalker, IF (big if) i can come up or find a pvp build, since i have no clue how to build for todays pvp.

Rework one of Dan Petro's stalker builds from here:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FNejy_CHV4Khr9dy3m7wn8-J0OARwrSbHcKmkBRuG1Y/edit#gid=0

 

Alternatively, ask for tips in the build advice channel of the PVP Dicord, here:

 

https://discord.gg/7mWuJVMW

 

Good luck!

Edited November 7, 2020 by America's Angel

[MoisesG]

 

thank you @America's Angel

[wombicus]

What about a 10 second -50% regen debuff per jaunt, stackable to -150% regen?

[America's Angel]

1 hour ago, wombicus said:

What about a 10 second -50% regen debuff per jaunt, stackable to -150% regen?

Wouldn't this make /plant even better when compared to the other blaster secondaries that have a +regen sustain? (Devices, Energy, etc).

[wombicus]

2 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Wouldn't this make /plant even better when compared to the other blaster secondaries that have a +regen sustain? (Devices, Energy, etc).

True... Maybe -x% HP would be more of an even penalty...

 

and increase fall damage?

[barrier]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:28 PM, wombicus said:

True... Maybe -x% HP would be more of an even penalty...

 

and increase fall damage?

Just add -fly to it and adjust the timer so that preemptive jaunting is discouraged. Jaunt, coupled with the absorb changes, has made it so that it makes little sense to target a blaster in the upcoming meta. This is what the range bonus nerf accomplished: a bunch of blasters that can port out of blazing bolt range really easily...

 

While I haven't been playing much lately (much like @M3z, I find this City of Raptor Packs meta to be stupid boring and would rather play faster games elsewhere), I survived more proper spikes last week than I've ever had before, and it was all about realizing that my "fuck it i'm dead" threshold for blazes and stranglers in my tray is incredibly higher now that as a blaster you have nearly 2.1k hp and you're not going to get hit with a blazing bolt if you jaunt up with your 80% range bonus on jaunt and they're not carrying a range bonus from the blazing bolt.

 

I actually think the bolt range nerf and the absorb changes were pretty bad moves, after having play tested a bit.