DFB - Get Dr. Meinst off the catwalk

[Outrider_01]

Its annoyance to fight an AV on a narrow catwalk clogged with walking corpses for a badge where you can't kill the undead trying to kill you. 

 

• Your recharge goes to crap
• Melee can't reach it if you are 3 seconds late after the first melee, Meinst just draws a line in the sand and zombies are acting like its a mosh pit
• You can't effectively use a KB to push Meinst down with the rails
• Half the time you surf the rails if you land on it, can't do much for a few seconds
• Catwalk is high enough that the lowest level splash heal auras don't hit all the team or if you are on the catwalk the zombies just bum rush right after from aggro

 

Earlier was in a DFB with a group of 8.  Get  to Meinst, try to bum rush and pull it down with an origin power, but the tank just hops up there.  I just stop and back out as a plant controller has a 10 point dot hold and time's heal is slow to recharge.  Team just ends up pounding it, taking damage on the catwalk, slowly face planting and for some reason just licks the pavement instead of going to hospital.  It runs off at 25% up onto the large pipes for some reason. I face plant and back up in half a second, everyone else just lays there for several minutes while Meinst takes it on the jaw.  5 people quite over a minute so I start to eliminate the zombies while 2 sentinels wear Meinst down.  Done, we go on to the next half but I face plant and had to get to ready for work.

 

Its an easy TF for level 1, but the requirements for the badge and position of the AV turns it into a crap fest.  I just stop doing anything if its stuck there, yeah its on me but half the time a melee can't reach it being 1 pixel to far.  Tired of the zombies I can't kill with range AoE, any other situation you eliminate the Sapper first, clear Nemesis Lts around the boss group first, or the Carnie minions as far as possible to not get endurance drained. 

 

It just makes no sense to have a requirement for the badge that zombies killed last but the target is in a tight position to get to.

 

And Tinder needs a badge, kinda lame he doesn't get a prize after you beat him down.

[Player2]

Stand back at a distance and hit Meinst with the Nemesis staff, drawing aggro.  Its range is greater than her or the zombies, so they will come off the catwalk.  As they do, then rush to attack.

[TygerDarkstorm]

6 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Stand back at a distance and hit Meinst with the Nemesis staff, drawing aggro.  Its range is greater than her or the zombies, so they will come off the catwalk.  As they do, then rush to attack.

I was going to say something similar to this. It's not that hard to pull her off the catwalk with a ranged attack and let her run off of it before the party engages her.

[Greycat]

Heck, if you *really* want to give some time, tag her with something and have everyone else back waiting up the "hill" (about where the last Vahz group is.) Make sure she keeps chasing - she's so much faster than the zombies you can take her down before they even show up.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Oh YEAH!?

WELL!

Aggro her with a single target attack and kite her all the way to the ENTRANCE before attacking her!

*crosses arm-analogous tentacles and frumps*

 

 . . . 

 

But in all seriousness; the layout of Meinst on the catwalk is rather annoying, and I agree that it could be changed for the benefit of badge-seeking players.  I wouldn't mind seeing it improved as a quality of life thing, basically.  The Cadaver Counter badge is already the most difficult to earn in Death From Below.  It could stand being made slightly easier.

 

But I had to not give you a Like, @Outrider_01, due to erroneously referring to the Vahzilok zombots as "undead."   There are certain standards I must adhere to, after all.

[Razor Cure]

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

Stand back at a distance and hit Meinst with the Nemesis staff, drawing aggro.

A REALLY bad way to draw aggro on an AV. She falls over, and takes time to get up then come forward, while the zombies have already swamped you. Use Blackwand (or any ranged attack) instead.

[Outrider_01]

Guys the problem isn't the pulling.  I use origin attacks and try to haul ass back.

 

The problem is the group and faceroll mentality to charge in and hold it on the catwalk.  Coupled with you can't kill the zombies and you can't easily push it off with the rails.

 

The bigger problem is more the people behind the keyboard, its useless to come up with a plan if nobody bothers to discuss it 😑

[Razor Cure]

9 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

It just makes no sense to have a requirement for the badge that zombies killed last but the target is in a tight position to get to.

Hmmm

 

2 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

The bigger problem is more the people behind the keyboard, its useless to come up with a plan if nobody bothers to discuss it 😑

 

Ever take your own advice? The badge is 'tough'..til a team member takes that whole 10 seconds to say 'no aoes, only hit the boss.'

Just because teh badge is low level, does not mean it should be easy. And again..discuss a plan? Seems kinda obvious.

[Outrider_01]

2 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Hmmm

 

 

Ever take your own advice? The badge is 'tough'..til a team member takes that whole 10 seconds to say 'no aoes, only hit the boss.'

Just because teh badge is low level, does not mean it should be easy. And again..discuss a plan? Seems kinda obvious.

Its not the badge, I can get it at any time.  Its the people with the mentality that jump right in and you cannot eliminate the biggest threat because of that badge.  And coupled with a catwalk funneling; melee can't get near it when the mosh pit starts and the railings prevent it from being knocked off.

 

Its just the catwalk.  Badge requirements could change, but the catwalk causes more head aches with the mosh pits.

 

As for discussing a plan, I have two good references to point out how futile it is

Youtube video

 

Spoiler

 

Any questions ?

 

So yeah, I can't take my own advice if people ignore it so gonna save my virtual pixelated breath and keyboard from trying.

[Razor Cure]

You complain about how hard a not very hard badge is..then go on about how hard it still is AFTER some helpful (and super obvious) suggestions? How about just forming the DFB yourself,, and explaining it? If you cant even be bothered to do that, how can you moan about how tough teh badge is? Even IF someone screws it up (through not listening or accident), just run the trail again (more xp, oh no!) and have another crack. If the same person screws it again, kick them.

[Outrider_01]

20 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

You complain about how hard a not very hard badge is..then go on about how hard it still is AFTER some helpful (and super obvious) suggestions? How about just forming the DFB yourself,, and explaining it? If you cant even be bothered to do that, how can you moan about how tough teh badge is? Even IF someone screws it up (through not listening or accident), just run the trail again (more xp, oh no!) and have another crack. If the same person screws it again, kick them.

Like I said, I could care less about the badge for myself because I can run it again.  Its Meinst.  Its dealing with the people who focus on the badge that jump in head first, which I will again make a simple statement, WHO FREAKING CLOG THE DAMN CATWALK!  My melee can't hit it, I can't knock it off the railing with range, nobody wants to kill the zombies because of the damn badge.  3 foot door, 6 people trying to Three stooge through it while 3 dozen zombies come from the other side.  Its frustrating.

 

As for a group, yes lets start one....and you missed the point of my 2 examples.   Tommy L. Jones: People are dumb, a Person can be rational and organize a plan but add more then 2 and it goes to shit.  When people don't follow the plan, the plan turns to shit after they bull rush it. In my life, I am tired of telling people what to do; they either ignore it or just do their own thing.  Can't even get them to do the simplest thing to organize something so I can finish the problem and I end up doing the entire thing myself.  Waste of my time trying herding cats with an airhorn.  Just go with the flow and roll with it.

 

And lastly; its the damn cat walk.  Again, its not the badge...its the cat walk.  Remove it, keep the badge requirements the same; just make the damn evil villain more accessible to the handicap heroes who just charge at it.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Greycat]

... not sure how you have such trouble with teams. Yes, every once in a while we have a player kill a cadaver (sometimes by not realizing things like "Confuse is a bad idea," since *they're* not the ones doing damage, or by someone not setting off a bomb ahead of time so the zombies do it,) but generally... most runs tend to be successful at getting it.

 

Then again, most of them ask first "do we want to do a badge run," then give a reminder before hitting the final room on what's needed.

 

Even with a catwalk.

[FrauleinMental]

"Don't stand in stupid" applies here.  She's meant to be pulled (or KBed) off the catwalk.  If your tank has her taunted, your tank needs to learn about positioning.

 

The hardest part (by a lot) of a DFB badge run is reining in the faceroll.

[ZacKing]

12 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Guys the problem isn't the pulling.  I use origin attacks and try to haul ass back.

 

The problem is the group and faceroll mentality to charge in and hold it on the catwalk.  Coupled with you can't kill the zombies and you can't easily push it off with the rails.

 

The bigger problem is more the people behind the keyboard, its useless to come up with a plan if nobody bothers to discuss it 😑

You can't fix stupid.  people don't know how to play this encounter, so educate them ahead of time or roll with a group who understands what to do to get the badge.  No need to change anything with this in game.

[Clave Dark 5]

I can understand the problem, those railings are annoying.  On the other hand, this is one thing I've done in this game dozens of times...  a hundred maybe... and it's never been that hard to get done successfully, so I think I'd set this one to the side to focus on bigger sewer-fish* to fry.

 

*Ew!

[Player2]

"Educate them ahead of time"

 

Me:  Okay...  **explains how the encounter works in detail, asks that everyone hold back while Meinst is pulled and then avoid using AoEs, cones, confuses, and don't target anything but the AV**

 

Also Me:  Got it?  **thinking positively**

 

Everyone:  Got it.  Ready.

 

At Least One Person, sometimes more:  **charges right into battle, immediately killing cadavers or using confuse, or running toward the explosives on the side**

Also That Same Individual(s):

• Oh, sorry.  I thought I was targeting AV.
• [power name] is an AoE?
• My bad, I wasn't reading chat window before.
• I didn't get badge.
• We can try again, right?

 

 

[Player2]

6 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I can understand the problem, those railings are annoying.  On the other hand, this is one thing I've done in this game dozens of times...  a hundred maybe... and it's never been that hard to get done successfully, so I think I'd set this one to the side to focus on bigger sewer-fish* to fry.

 

*Ew!

It isn't hard to do.  The hard part of it is getting people to listen to what you're saying when you try to explain it, and then follow the instructions that you've explained.

[Clave Dark 5]

I haven't found that too be too hard to get done either, seeing as how I've been able to get that badge repeatedly.  I'm sorry but I don't agree this as a serious problem.

[Player2]

Since teams vary with different players, your mileage may vary.  Your experiences obviously have been all good.  This does not invalidate the bad experiences of others.

[tidge]

I am somewhat disappointed that we've reached the point where it has become necessary to ask for changes to Death from Below because part of it is viewed as too hard, or too time consuming to run more than once.

 

Here is my effort to be a little more helpful: Because of the nature of DfB, most characters will NOT have access to powers such as Taunt. It will be possible to draw away the zombies, but it has to be done carefully... either via aggro auras (if available) or low-damage attacks (brawl, origin powers). Generally it isn't worth trying to keep the zombie aggro, but if you have it, you can try to keep (some of) the zombies away from Meinst.

 

Typically, if a DfB group is sincere about wanting to get that badge, a reminder to not use AoE attacks (including Sands of Mu) as well as a reminder to pacify henchmen is usually enough to earn the badge.

[Troo]

Teams still matter.

[Player2]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

I am somewhat disappointed that we've reached the point where it has become necessary to ask for changes to Death from Below because part of it is viewed as too hard, or too time consuming to run more than once.

 

Here is my effort to be a little more helpful: Because of the nature of DfB, most characters will NOT have access to powers such as Taunt. It will be possible to draw away the zombies, but it has to be done carefully... either via aggro auras (if available) or low-damage attacks (brawl, origin powers). Generally it isn't worth trying to keep the zombie aggro, but if you have it, you can try to keep (some of) the zombies away from Meinst.

 

Typically, if a DfB group is sincere about wanting to get that badge, a reminder to not use AoE attacks (including Sands of Mu) as well as a reminder to pacify henchmen is usually enough to earn the badge.

I am disappointed that we've reached that point, too.  However, it only takes one person in the team to ruin it for everyone else.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

I am disappointed that we've reached that point, too.  However, it only takes one person in the team to ruin it for everyone else.

I think 'ruin' may be overstating the situation.

[Player2]

RUINED!!!

[Greycat]

I fear sewers over flowing,
I hear the voice of rage and ruin!