Zone Travel Updates in Issue 27

[ladypseudo]

1 minute ago, Ironblade said:

How is that not saying that they removed it because of PvP?  Removing the slash command for PvP zones would accomplish NOTHING.  It's not a PvP-related problem.

And again, I point to the fact that the exploit was only found RECENTLY when they started looking at alternatives to include in Issue 27.

 

The only mistake the devs made here, which they have publicly admitted, was not removing the command immediately.  They didn't see any harm in it AT THE TIME.  Recently, they discovered the potential for grievous harm (and I don't mean silliness like cheating in PvP) so they removed it now.

Because those words literally never came out of my keyboard, that's how? It was a suggestion to what could have been done in conjunction to literally anything else. The excuse used was that it was not how it was intended to work. The exploit was thrown in as an aside, and not the main reason. Thusly, if the reason it was talked about being removed before, simply because it wasn't how it was meant to work, why wait a whole year to take it out? Do you see where I'm coming from here?

[Vanden]

Would it be possible for a badge to unlock missions as a destination on LRTP, when you get a mission that says "Board Transit?"

[Jacke]

9 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

I also never said that they removed it because of PVP. I only said that the slash commands could have just been removed for PVP zones.

 

Repeating my post from the previous page:

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

It wasn't a PvP exploit.  It wasn't even initially the bug, because that was only found when the changes were being implemented.

 

It was glibly giving a GM command to all players all the time.  I used /enterbasefrompasscode.  But I felt it was not quite right.  It trivialized too many things.

 

Restricting /enterbasefrompasscode was going to happen.  Just as a massively overperforming set like Titan Weapons was going to be considered and changed and those changes would reduce its peak DPS.

 

I think the solutions to aid travel while restricting /enterbasefrompasscode are a very good set of changes to City of Heroes.  And I've played this game since 2005, through many a nerf and buff and other sundre evolutions.

 

[Ironblade]

Just now, ladypseudo said:

The exploit was thrown in as an aside, and not the main reason. Thusly, if the reason it was talked about being removed before, simply because it wasn't how it was meant to work, why wait a whole year to take it out? Do you see where I'm coming from here?

I see where you're coming from but the first sentence that I quoted is completely false.  So you're starting from an incorrect premise.

[ladypseudo]

2 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

Repeating my post from the previous page:

 

Afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

[ladypseudo]

2 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

I see where you're coming from but the first sentence that I quoted is completely false.  So you're starting from an incorrect premise.

"As for why it’s being changed, well that’s simple: You should not be able to teleport to any base, instantly, with no cost, regardless of your character’s level or progress, by using a simple slash command.

 

Additionally, this command and other related commands had numerous other lesser-known exploitable issues."

Bro, it's literally right there. 'Additionally'. Which means it wasn't the main reason.

[Ironblade]

Just now, ladypseudo said:

Bro, it's literally right there. 'Additionally'. Which means it wasn't the main reason.

Bro, as you pointed out yourself, they left it there for a year because it wasn't urgent or a big deal.

Then they realized there was an exploit and took it out IMMEDIATELY.

[Dreamboat]

Just now, Ironblade said:

Bro, as you pointed out yourself, they left it there for a year because it wasn't urgent or a big deal.

Then they realized there was an exploit and took it out IMMEDIATELY.

More insulting to PvPers than any "blaming" could ever be, in my opinion.

[Jacke]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

Would it be possible for a badge to unlock missions as a destination on LRTP, when you get a mission that says "Board Transit?"

Interesting idea.

 

Though it might overload the LRT power, both its listing and its use.  I think you can have multiple "Board Transit" missions open.  There is the open mission limit, which I think is somewhere around 7 or so now, with extras allowed for some arcs (the contact has the book icon with the green bookmark).  So that could work, if there's no other reasons that make it difficult or inadvisable to do such a change.

 

3 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

Afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

Please make a counter argument to refute my argument.

[ladypseudo]

Just now, Ironblade said:

Bro, as you pointed out yourself, they left it there for a year because it wasn't urgent or a big deal.

Then they realized there was an exploit and took it out IMMEDIATELY.

But they said again, in the comment I pasted, that they knew of the exploit, and opted not to take it out because the commands had beneficial side effects. 

This is their commentary, not mine. 

[ladypseudo]

1 minute ago, Jacke said:

Please make a counter argument to refute my argument.

My first comment was my argument. You're not obligated to agree with it. You can feel how you feel, if the changes make you happy, cool. I'm glad for you. :) But I'm afraid I simply can't agree for reasons I've already stated.

[Ironblade]

2 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

But they said again, in the comment I pasted, that they knew of the exploit, and opted not to take it out because the commands had beneficial side effects.

Now it's my turn to 'respectfully disagree'.  They never said that they knew about the exploit a YEAR ago.  They specifically said they discovered it when they were working on a replacement power for this issue.

[ladypseudo]

1 minute ago, Ironblade said:

Now it's my turn to 'respectfully disagree'.  They never said that they knew about the exploit a YEAR ago.  They specifically said they discovered it when they were working on a replacement power for this issue.

  Where? Because I've re-read the first post in this thread multiple times and I do not see anywhere that specific explanation.

 

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, ladypseudo said:

  Where? Because I've re-read the first post in this thread multiple times and I do not see anywhere that specific explanation.

This was discussed weeks ago, in one of the 'Focused Feedback' threads posted at the time of the start of beta testing.

[ladypseudo]

Just now, Ironblade said:

This was discussed weeks ago, in one of the 'Focused Feedback' threads posted at the time of the start of beta testing.

Then the first post in this thread is highly contradictory. "It was always our intention (which we communicated a long time ago) to fix the command in a way which preserves the ability to bookmark bases, but removes the other problematic aspects of the command. " This suggests they knew of the exploits 'a long time ago'. So you have to understand my confusion here, when you say they said one thing, but the first post says something 100% different.

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, ladypseudo said:

This suggests they knew of the exploits 'a long time ago'. So you have to understand my confusion here, when you say they said one thing, but the first post says something 100% different.

"suggests"

Your interpretation differs from the facts laid out in a separate thread.

[Jacke]

13 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

But they said again, in the comment I pasted, that they knew of the exploit, and opted not to take it out because the commands had beneficial side effects. 

This is their commentary, not mine. 

That's not quite what they said.

 

The devs knew the /enterbasefrompasscode command was excessive.  They should have just removed it from general player use.  But they left it in until they could roll out an equivalent and better system for players.

 

Issue 27 Page 1 has been under development for a long while with beta testing since the summer.  Open beta testing from middle of October.  Including the /enterbasefrompasscode and the teleport changes.

 

The exploit was found about early October.  It was partly patched out.  For the rest, the devs decided to continue with Issue 27 Page 1.

 

7 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

  Where? Because I've re-read the first post in this thread multiple times and I do not see anywhere that specific explanation.

Because it's not said there.  The devs and GMs are human, frail, volunteers, and they're getting tired of having to say the same things, refute the same mistaken impressions and incorrect histories.  So sometimes they don't say all the details.  As @Ironblade said, it was mentioned in one of the Focus Feedback posts during the beta.

 

 

3 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

Then the first post in this thread is highly contradictory. "It was always our intention (which we communicated a long time ago) to fix the command in a way which preserves the ability to bookmark bases, but removes the other problematic aspects of the command. " This suggests they knew of the exploits 'a long time ago'. So you have to understand my confusion here, when you say they said one thing, but the first post says something 100% different.

 

The problematic aspects of the command were all players being able to use a GM command all the time, everywhere, without cooldown.  It trivializes much of the game. It is wrong.

 

What we have now is better.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[ladypseudo]

Just now, Jacke said:

That's not quite what they said.

 

The devs knew the /enterbasefrompasscode command was excessive.  They should have just removed it from general player use.  But they left it in until they could roll out an equivalent and better system for players.

 

Issue 27 Page 1 has been under development for a long while with beta testing since the summer.  Open beta testing from middle of October.  Including the /enterbasefrompasscode and the teleport changes.

 

The exploit was found about early October.  It was partly patched out.  For the rest, the devs decided to continue with Issue 27 Page 1.

 

Because it's not said there.  The devs and GMs are human, frail, volunteers, and they're getting tired of having to say the same things, refute the same mistaken impressions and incorrect histories.  So sometimes they don't say all the details.  As @Ironblade said, it was mentioned in one of the Focus Feedback posts during the beta.

 

 

 

The problematic aspects of the command are all players being able to use a GM command all the time, everywhere, without cooldown.  It trivializes much of the game. It is wrong.

 

What we have now is better.

I again have to respectfully disagree. I've brought quite a number of folks to Homecoming, and the ability to fast-travel was a huge thing for them. Because of how long it takes to go from one zone to the next, in other MMOs. Not having to deal with it here, was a huge bonus for them.

[Jacke]

1 minute ago, ladypseudo said:

I again have to respectfully disagree. I've brought quite a number of folks to Homecoming, and the ability to fast-travel was a huge thing for them. Because of how long it takes to go from one zone to the next, in other MMOs. Not having to deal with it here, was a huge bonus for them.

I'm glad that you brought more people to Homecoming.

 

But an unrestricted /enterbasefrompasscode was never go to be kept.

 

And what we have is just as good and as fast.  You just have to learn it.  It's not that hard to learn.  There's more Base Portals in more Zones.  There's 2 commands to summon a Base Portal.  Within 45ft of a Base Portal, permanent or summoned, you can use /enterbasefrompasscode.  Invoke but do not complete the Prestige Base Transporter power, the temp Base Teleport power, the LRT power itself, and you can then use /enterbasefrompasscode.

 

In games as in life, there are going to be changes.  To get things better overall, changes are needed.  We have to adapt to the changes.

 

This is damn simple adaption.  Without adaption, we'd still be playing City of Heroes as it was Issue 0 in 2004.  That was a great game.  For 2004.  It got better.  It's still getting better.  But we have to adapt to that change.  Help direct it when we can.  But adapt we must.

[ladypseudo]

10 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

"suggests"

Your interpretation differs from the facts laid out in a separate thread.

I interpreted what was there, I was not privy to the other thread. I was simply telling you what I was reading, in this thread.

[ladypseudo]

1 minute ago, Jacke said:

In games as in life, there are going to be changes.  To get things better overall, changes are needed.  We have to adapt to the changes.

 

This is damn simple adaption.  Without adaption, we'd still be playing City of Heroes as it was Issue 0 in 2004.  That was a great game.  For 2004.  It got better.  It's still getting better.  But we have to adapt to that change.  Help direct it when we can.  But adapt we must.

And this I can agree with. But you have to understand that while I will still continue to play CoH, I am under no obligation to like or agree with every single change. Nor is anyone else.

Edited November 25, 2020 by ladypseudo

[Jacke]

7 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

And this I can agree with. But you have to understand that while I will still continue to play CoH, I am under no obligation to like or agree with every single change. Nor is anyone else.

 

I don't like that Tactical Arrow had its ranges nerfed when it was a powerset that was buff and ranged powers only and was an obvious case that should be added as an exception. Many others who commented in the Blaster Secondaries Revamp Feedback topic made very good and very passionate arguments and suggestions for not nerfing the ranges.  To the point where the topic was dominated by Tactical Arrow posts.

 

The ranges still got nerfed.  I understand why this happened and why the devs put the changes in and why they stuck to them.

 

I want that to change in the future.  I'll have to work at it to see that through.  Connect with the devs.  Perhaps as an overall reasssessment of power ranges, which have been buffed in the past.

 

That is the way.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[ladypseudo]

I actually rather enjoyed every single change thus far, save for this one. I love that content's being added. I love that the game is here. There was bound to be something I didn't like, though, not everyone can like everything in existence every second of every day, after all. :P

[Troo]

Rather than arguing with each person who is just learning about the change we could help point them in the right direction. Or just let them vent their frustration. It's gonna be okay.

 

@Robotech_Masteractually put together a guide for GETTING AROUND THE CITIES OF HEROES AND VILLAINS

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/8194-getting-around-the-cities-of-heroes-and-villains/

 

10 hours ago, Ironblade said:

They never said that they knew about the exploit a YEAR ago.

To clarify: Yes, they did.

August of 2019 as I recall. It was explained what it's intention was and that they understood how it could be exploited in a number of ways.

13 hours ago, Jacke said:

It wasn't a PvP exploit.

A few of the examples were related to PvP and some of them weren't. It's okay. Lots of people didn't abuse it and are now confused.

 

Edit: Adding image (there are lots of posts around that time) Removed image, those that needed to see it have.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Troo

[therealtitanman]

1 hour ago, Dreamboat said:

More insulting to PvPers than any "blaming" could ever be, in my opinion.

Dont get pvp personal cause lot of post start with PVP exploited and other exploited which doesnt addressed.

 

You only need 1 miss quote and people start defend, then slowly it became a thing.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by therealtitanman