Zone Travel Updates in Issue 27

[EmperorSteele]

1 minute ago, NewXToa said:

I don't have an answer for you, because I disagree with your premise. First of, whether or not people enjoyed live without these QoL changes is irrelevant - there's all sorts of things that we have now that wouldn't have been acceptable on live, such as free XP boosters, free prestige powers, free respecs every 10 levels, etc. Everyone enjoyed Live, but I'm fairly certain that most people prefer the things HC changed (otherwise they'd be on a different server, right?). Second, if everything is supposed to have a cost associated with it, why did they make Ouro accessible from level 1? Why do we get free respecs? Why do we get effectively free XP boosters? Gating the LRT behind exploration badges and a high cooldown doesn't feel like it matches the rest of HC's tendency to make things less grindy.

"My" premise seems to be in-line with HC's thinking on this. So it's not me you're disagreeing with, it's them. They've made their decision that the new teleport options should come with a cost and/or drawback. If you don't like those costs or drawbacks, you should think about which ones would be acceptable and suggest those. I do not see "LRTP" being free and with 100% uptime right from level 1 with no effort.

Those "Free" XP boosters come with an inf cost: A % of the inf you WOULD have made during your leveling process. The prestige powers used to be behind a paywall (something we can't and shouldn't repeat), and the respecs, yeah, those are just icing.

Ouro at level 1 was one of the many compromises the team has made in getting rid of /ebfp. They didn't want to leave the playerbase high and dry.

You seem to be coming from a place that since some things have been made easier, that EVERYTHING should be at maximum easiness. I disagree with that viewpoint, and it's clear that the devs here do, too.

[Blackbird71]

2 hours ago, Flintlock Burnfur said:

No one said that the powers in the context menu didn't have to be earned.  They totally do have to be earned.  But once they're earned, they're on the context menu (or menu of other buttons).

So they are in fact separate powers; I'm glad we agree.

 

1 hour ago, EmperorSteele said:

 

The "downside" is that everything is SUPPOSED to come with some kind of cost; whether it's influence, or time, or effort.

Clearly not "everything" has to come with some kind of cost.  There are many things provided in HC at no or minimal cost because they are considered QoL improvements (see P2W vendor for a myriad of examples of free powers, etc.).  By allowing the Ouro portal to be obtained at level 1 simply by someone else opening a portal for you, this has been provided at no practical cost.  So I'm afraid that the argument that "everything is supposed to come with some kind of cost" holds little water.

 

Do many things need a cost to be rewarding?  Absolutely.  But the question needs to be asked of why a particular thing has a cost, or what the cost is supposed to achieve.  If the cost is only there for the sake of having a cost, and it provides an unnecessary barrier to a QoL improvement, then I question the logic of the cost.

 

1 hour ago, EmperorSteele said:

But, let me ask: What DO you enjoy doing? Maybe that way, we can add teleport options with a cost relating to the content that you like to do? Like, maybe completing a TF will unlock that contacts' zone as a TP destination? Or maybe doing a Bank/Paper mission for a certain zone? The Pocket D Pass is already "Spend 1 hour in Pocket D", so we already essentially have role-players covered. Give the team some ideas that aren't just "give it to me for free", which people are SAYING they're not saying, but then they balk at any suggestion of cost or effort.

I enjoy having frequent, easy, and unrestricted access to SG bases, without the need to acquire multiple powers to do it.  Keep it simple in one power, done.  This could be achieved through removing the need for charges from one of the day job base portal powers, or by reducing the recharge on the P2W Base Transporter power to 30s-90s.

 

[Flintlock Burnfur]

1 minute ago, Blackbird71 said:

So they are in fact separate powers; I'm glad we agree.

Never once said they weren't.  You should read what I said.  There are still those powers, but now tied to ONE button on the power tray.  Whereas before you had three (or more).  But now, there's one power that contains all the other powers.

 

So no, we don't agree, because you apparently didn't read what I said.

[DoctorDitko]

/ebfp (please?) was a most excellent exploit. In particular my teleporter Mark Vector (he has a Grav/Time hobby, but let's face it, he's a teleporter) enjoyed it and added it to his quiver full of teleport shortcuts (absolutely including the LFG, auction house, and P2W self-destruct-to-hospital/base teleports).

 

It's gone.

Mark Vector is grieving privately. Please, everyone, consider this as a personal option.

 

The Devs have listened, bent over backward, and provided reach- work-arounds to ameliorate the pain of its loss.

There are now many new Taxibot characters being created (Seriously, "Taxibot **" names are getting scarce).

Feel free to contact them in game if you have an urgent need.

 

I wish there was a counterpart to the Beta server that ran the previous code. An Upstaging server, if you will. (The code is out there, anyone could spin one up.) I will wager an amazing 1 million influence that the same character on the current release could very closely match the travel time of its pre-27 counterpart.

 

If your really want to collect 'em all, there are some grindy ways to get plenty of new teleport options, but they are not necessary to reproduce much of the /ebfp functionality. You might have to suffer through a brief animation. My condolences.

 

But we still can do much of what we could before. It's now a legitimate part of the game, which never would have happened under the old regime. We have several new tweaks and powers.

And when you try it out -- which poor, now-dressed-in-black Mark Vector has spent weeks on the Beta server doing -- you will find it's not as bad as it sounds.

[EmperorSteele]

7 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

I enjoy having frequent, easy, and unrestricted access to SG bases, without the need to acquire multiple powers to do it.  Keep it simple in one power, done.  This could be achieved through removing the need for charges from one of the day job base portal powers, or by reducing the recharge on the P2W Base Transporter power to 30s-90s.

 

Like different bases, or popping out of your base and popping right back in? What are you doing in those 30-90 seconds where you need to get back into your base right away?

If it's different bases, /ebfp will still work while you're already in a base. Just click your macro and boom.

[Blackbird71]

8 minutes ago, Flintlock Burnfur said:

Never once said they weren't.  You should read what I said.  There are still those powers, but now tied to ONE button on the power tray.  Whereas before you had three (or more).  But now, there's one power that contains all the other powers.

 

So no, we don't agree, because you apparently didn't read what I said.

Quote

But you're not juggling more than one power.  It's just one power, with a context menu.  Whereas before the changes, it was several different powers that ended up cluttering you trays.

Boldface added for emphasis.

 

I read what you said just fine.  You may not have said what you meant, but I read exactly what you said.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Blackbird71

[Flintlock Burnfur]

And the powers are in the context menu.

 

Just... mmmmm, not gonna say anything about.... nope.

[Blackbird71]

3 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

 

Like different bases, or popping out of your base and popping right back in? What are you doing in those 30-90 seconds where you need to get back into your base right away?

Some of both, as well as popping out of one base, traveling to a location in the game, then needing to go to the same or a different base.  So no, just using /ebfp from within the base does not fill the need.  I've described exactly what I'm looking for and the most simple and straightforward solution.

[EmperorSteele]

6 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Some of both, as well as popping out of one base, traveling to a location in the game, then needing to go to the same or a different base.  So no, just using /ebfp from within the base does not fill the need.  I've described exactly what I'm looking for and the most simple and straightforward solution.

I'm a little confused and curious. So, you exit your base, go somewhere (?), then you need to go back to your base (or another base) right away? You can't backtrack to the base portal? Where are you going and why? It doesn't sound like you're doing missions. If you were doing papers/radios, there's no need to return to base or change zones. If you're AE farming, it's doubtful you're clearing the farms that fast, and even if so, just use the AE in Pocket D, there's a base portal like 100 feet away.

[Nerio72]

@Blackbird71 & @Flintlock Burnfur
we get you disagree how the power is setup but you both seem to agree how it works, so maybe stop arguing about it. It's not helpful to anyone else.

 

Besides "give us back /enterbasefrompasscode" do you have any other suggestions? A compromise of any sort?

[JAMMan0000]

18 hours ago, Ironblade said:

That has not been my experience on Everlasting.  Even though the 'Zone' base on Everlasting is nowhere near as fancy as the Cosmic Transport base (I play at least a little on all the North America shards), every time I have gone through the base in the past few days I have seen people there.

FYI - Here is a customized version of the FastTravel popmenu that you can modify to use any SG Base you want as your travel hub just setting your $Battlecry (menu shortcut \D) to the SG Bases passcode. To boot it will also use any existing portals in the area first to eliminate unnecessary cooldown and charge usage of your own powers. Just drop it in data\texts\English\menus, restart CoX and it will replace the default FastTravel popmenu. 

 

FastTravel.mnu

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, Nerio72 said:

Besides "give us back /enterbasefrompasscode" do you have any other suggestions? A compromise of any sort?

 

2 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

I enjoy having frequent, easy, and unrestricted access to SG bases, without the need to acquire multiple powers to do it.  Keep it simple in one power, done.  This could be achieved through removing the need for charges from one of the day job base portal powers, or by reducing the recharge on the P2W Base Transporter power to 30s-90s.

Suggestions have been made, mine included (just a few posts above on this very page), if you care to discuss it.  It seems like you're trying to ignore that myself and others have already made several suggestions for compromise.

[Jacke]

43 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Suggestions have been made, mine included (just a few posts above on this very page), if you care to discuss it.  It seems like you're trying to ignore that myself and others have already made several suggestions for compromise.

I think it's that there's so much being said that the details aren't being recalled by everyone and they're getting a bit too tired to go searching through the many posts already made.

 

Do you have a suggestion that isn't just giving a single power to teleport to a base via its passcode, that starts unlocked on a toon, that needs no prerequisite power used before it, and doesn't have a cooldown?  I've actually searched back through your posts and I can't see a suggestion that either isn't specified or is just basically what I said in my previous sentence.

 

EDIT from here down: And I think I found it.

On 11/25/2020 at 7:03 AM, Blackbird71 said:

What was largely wanted (and repeatedly asked for) was for one base teleport power to have a reasonable activation time (long enough to be interruptible and prevent mission abuse, etc.), a short cooldown (60s-90s seems to have been preferred), with no other restrictions on the frequency of use (such as needing to recharge).  A single power that met these would have solved all practical arguments over this issue. 

 

So, that's a single power with a reasonable activation time (long enough to be interruptible and prevent mission abuse, etc.) to teleport to a base via its passcode, that I assume starts unlocked on a toon or has a simple unlock (you didn't specifiy that), that needs no prerequisite power used before it, and has a 60s-90s cooldown.

 

Hmmm.  Can I get a comment by @Jimmy or someone else on this.  I'm a bit too tired to go digging through the Feedback topic to find out what the response was.

 

@Blackbird71, can you give some details on the use cases that requires such a command.  I know you likely did in the Feedback topic, but I just don't have the time to search through it.  And you giving your use cases would help support this idea being considered.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Jacke

[Nerio72]

24 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

Suggestions have been made, mine included (just a few posts above on this very page), if you care to discuss it.  It seems like you're trying to ignore that myself and others have already made several suggestions for compromise.

That's basically "give me back /enterbasefrompasscode" that's not a compromise and there have been many posts from the Devs that that isn't going to happen. It seems like you are just ignoring what anyone else says because it's not what you want to hear.

 

This is my last response here. You can continue to message me if you like.

[Jacke]

7 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

That's basically "give me back /enterbasefrompasscode" that's not a compromise and there have been many posts from the Devs that that isn't going to happen. It seems like you are just ignoring what anyone else says because it's not what you want to hear.

 

This is my last response here. You can continue to message me if you like.

@Nerio72, I just editted my post as I found a quote from @Blackbird71 from Wednesday where he specified what he wanted and it isn't quite /ebfp.  I'm interested to see what the dev commentary on it is.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Jacke

[Lockpick]

59 minutes ago, Jacke said:

@Nerio72, I just editted my post as I found a quote from @Blackbird71 from Wednesday where he specified what he wanted and it isn't quite /ebfp.  I'm interested to see what the dev commentary on it is.

Isn't "a single power with a reasonable activation time (long enough to be interruptible and prevent mission abuse, etc.) to teleport to a base via its passcode, that I assume starts unlocked on a toon or has a simple unlock (you didn't specifiy that), that needs no prerequisite power used before it, and has a 60s-90s cooldown" basically the /ebfp?

 

The only difference is you are adding a few seconds to activation so it can't be interrupted and you are giving it a CD that is longer than /epfb, but much shorter than any other similar TP power like Oro portal.

 

I just don't see that as a starter position.  I would love this type of power and I would really love it if it was a reward for doing some content.  I just don't see it happening...

[Jacke]

2 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

Isn't "a single power with a reasonable activation time (long enough to be interruptible and prevent mission abuse, etc.) to teleport to a base via its passcode, that I assume starts unlocked on a toon or has a simple unlock (you didn't specifiy that), that needs no prerequisite power used before it, and has a 60s-90s cooldown" basically the /ebfp?

 

The only difference is you are adding a few seconds to activation so it can't be interrupted and you are giving it a CD that is longer than /epfb, but much shorter than any other similar TP power like Oro portal.

 

I just don't see that as a starter position.  I would love this type of power and I would really love it if it was a reward for doing some content.  I just don't see it happening...

 

It's @Blackbird71 that would like this and kept saying they'd posted what they wanted.  So I tracked it down and summarized it.  @Blackbird71 would help the suggestion if they'd prove use cases that a power like this would satisfy and that the existing powers don't or only do so poorly.  But @Blackbird71 may now not have any hope there will be any attention to this matter to the degree they desire.

 

I don't know what went on in the Travel Revamp Feedback topic, because it was one I at most skimmed and only late in the beta.  But considering how things went on the Blaster Secondaries Revamp Feedback topic, where @Blackbird71 and I were on the same side of the major issue there (wanting to avoid the nerfing of the ranges on Tactical Arrow) and how everyone felt at the end of beta, I can only imagine it was worse for them with the Travel changes.

 

Without those use cases, I don't know if for example, a power that was such an extension of the existing Mission Transporter with a cooldown in the range of 2.5 to 5 minutes with a P2W price of 4 million Inf would satisfy.  Assuming that the devs could be convinced to consider such a power.  Because that could be done easily on any alt in under 30 minutes with the Merits from 2 Zone Accolades (say Atlas Park and Echo: Atlas Park), converting them to Enhancement Converters and selling them on the Auction House overnight.  Or if more alts, financing them in bulk by playing a level 50 toon.

[Faultline]

5 hours ago, NewXToa said:

Why do so many people keep acting like the change to /ebfp and LRT makes it easier to get around than before? Previously, in order to do a fedex mission, I could hit the button to pop into my base, head to the appropriate zone, deliver the package, pop back into my base, and go back to whatever zone I was doing missions in.

Now, I have to activate the LRT, but only if it goes to a zone I have an exploration badge in, and only if I'm on a toon that I've already taken the time to unlock it in.

Posts like these ignore that LRT enables the use of /ebfp. Just use /ebfp as before while the LRT monorail menu is up, it will put you on your selected base as before, which zones you have unlocked doesn't matter.

 

Yes, this could be communicated better. Adding a "Your Base" option at the top of LRT is in the to-do list, but we ran out of time. We're heading into holidays break and it was either release LRT without a visible "Your Base" option (but with passcode access enabled) or delay all of i27 and leave the much more problematic exploits unpatched until January. Considering how you were already using /ebfp before I didn't think it was such a massive deal to continue using it with LRT for a few weeks.

[DoctorDitko]

Hear, hear!

It might help a bit to make that explicit in the power description. The current description makes no mention of the fact that in re-enables /ebfp.

(BTW, I just had an idea: can we get /ebfp as an alias?)

 

I note the Supergroup teleport info says that it allows "you and your allies to access your base." It should say that it allows anyone nearby to access any base, and ought also to mention the /ebfp enabling. (BTW, I just had an idea...)

 

Since received wisdom says under 10% of players read the fora, it might help to emphasize this benefit of the teleports that enable it.

It really seems that a lot of the kickback on these changes comes from folks that haven't tried them, or don't fully understand them.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Blackbird71]

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

Do you have a suggestion that isn't just giving a single power to teleport to a base via its passcode, that starts unlocked on a toon, that needs no prerequisite power used before it, and doesn't have a cooldown? 

  I'd literally quoted my own suggestion in the post of mine that you quoted and responded to.  You didn't need to dig back through pages of my previous posts to find it; it was literally right in front of you.  Can you see why it feels like these suggestions are being flat-out ignored?

 

2 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

That's basically "give me back /enterbasefrompasscode"

No, it's not.  It's a solution that allows what is needed without unnecessary complications or obstructions, and which should avoid any of the problematic issues with the /ebfp command as it existed before.  It also still required earning through Day Jobs or a P2W purchase.

 

30 minutes ago, Faultline said:

Posts like these ignore that LRT enables the use of /ebfp. Just use /ebfp as before while the LRT monorail menu is up, it will put you on your selected base as before, which zones you have unlocked doesn't matter.

The cooldown of LRTP is still a problem though. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Blackbird71

[Faultline]

16 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

The cooldown of LRTP is still a problem though. 

Use Base Transporter while LRT is on cooldown. Use SG portal while both are on cooldown. Use the day job versions if you need to use it even more often than thrice every 10 minutes. This has been stated many times already; all of those powers enable /ebfp validation.

 

No, those powers can't and will not be combined, they do different things on their own. But they all enable /ebfp for those who just want to ignore those options and use /ebfp three times every 10 minutes. You want a shorter cooldown on /ebfp usage? Either spend time offline by a portal to get Day Job charges, or fork over 1m influence for Base Transporter and/or 10m influence for Supergroup Portal.

 

You have options that you're choosing not to use. If being able to use /ebfp on a shorter cooldown is so important to you, then spend the time (Day Jobs) or inf (P2W) for it.

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Crimsonpyre said:

The other idea I saw posted was reduce the percentage of the cool down time for each exploration accolade you have. This way you don't have to have them, but there is a reward if you do. Not to mention the 5 merits you get for each one you earn.

This is a brilliant idea, and I'm just going to @Faultline and @Jimmyin the hope that it doesn't get buried forever unseen in the depths of the thread.

[Blackbird71]

18 minutes ago, Faultline said:

Use Base Transporter while LRT is on cooldown. Use SG portal while both are on cooldown. Use the day job versions if you need to use it even more often than thrice every 10 minutes. This has been stated many times already; all of those powers enable /ebfp validation.

Which is the whole problem I've been complaining about; the complexity of needing 3-4 powers to regain the functionality we had previously.  It's quite frankly ridiculous.

[Rathulfr]

6 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Which is the whole problem I've been complaining about; the complexity of needing 3-4 powers to regain the functionality we had previously.  It's quite frankly ridiculous.

You don't need 3-4 powers to regain the functionality.  You just need to move to within 45 feet of any base portal in any zone, or any base portal dropped by another player, and /ebfp will work as it did before.  I created 2 brand new EM Scrappers this week, didn't buy any of the 3-4 teleport powers, and I was still able to use /ebfp by simply moving my character near a portal.  Most of the time it was a regular base portal (the one next to Lumina in TI is quite convenient), but at least once when somebody else on the team dropped their own portal.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Rathulfr

[DoctorDitko]

I remember when there was a crack in the world.

I think it was in an obscure part of Talos Island.

This crazy guy led a whole team of us through the hole, and we embarked on a trip to the Moon.

We were moving at quite a clip -- I think someone had Group Fly fully slotted with fly enhancements -- but we never got there.

Eventually, a GM showed up and, after he stopped laughing, duly slapped our wrists and sent us home.

The fun we had was mostly in the journey, there was lots of witty banter.

But we all knew perfectly well we were sneaking backstage and would eventually get bounced. And we pretty much knew we'd never reach the Moon.

Wouldn't it have been awesome if the Devs in those days had decided to give us an in-game, legit way to launch a Moon mission?

Even if it took a few hoops to jump through, that would have been truly epic.

I don't know why I thought of that, sorry to post off topic.

Edited November 28, 2020 by DoctorDitko