Why not just roll a scrapper or tanker?

[Infinitum]

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

So here's a question concerning Energy Melee for you and Galaxy  

 

You said the Scrapper's performance is a little less than hoped due to the reduced crits for the top attacks 

 

Presumably the Brute can gain a little ground there.   So how does Brute Energy Melee compare to Scrapper Energy Melee? 

If you put the Critical Strikes Proc in Bone Smasher and lead with that you get Crit on TF pretty reliably - which in turn gives you double focus - double fast ET, and that pushes the scrapper slightly ahead of the Brute IMO - however the brute does great dmg across the board and itsnt far behind the scrapper but as far as EM is concerned - dmg wise its Stalker - Scrapper - Brute - Tanker.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Infinitum

[Troo]

I haven't done he scrapper enough to be certain but that order feels right (and the opposite of expected baseline survive-ability which also seems right).

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Troo

[SaintD]

Tank doesn't have Energy Aura.

That is now literally the only reason I roll a Brute.

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, SaintD said:

Tank doesn't have Energy Aura.

That is now literally the only reason I roll a Brute.

So SS/EA would be your ultimate, "Can't be done on a Scrapper, Can't be done on a Tanker" build?

 

Oddly enough, I actually had one of those back on live.

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

So SS/EA would be your ultimate, "Can't be done on a Scrapper, Can't be done on a Tanker" build?

 

Oddly enough, I actually had one of those back on live.

Now I sort of want to 50 one of those just to say I have something Tanks and Scrappers cannot get....  I used to love SS....but after running it literally for years...sigh.  And a Defense set?  Damned.  I am so spoiled with Dark and Invulnerability.  Just...shields.... I would be screaming "Scotty I need those shields up!"  Are the resists in Energy good?

Edited February 12, 2021 by Snarky

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Now I sort of want to 50 one of those just to say I have something Tanks and Scrappers cannot get....  I used to love SS....but after running it literally for years...sigh.  And a Defense set?  Damned.  I am so spoiled with Dark and Invulnerability.  Just...shields.... I would be screaming "Scotty I need those shields up!"

You can get fairly decent resists with EA also.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Infinitum

[Erratic1]

28 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Now I sort of want to 50 one of those just to say I have something Tanks and Scrappers cannot get....  I used to love SS....but after running it literally for years...sigh.  And a Defense set?  Damned.  I am so spoiled with Dark and Invulnerability.  Just...shields.... I would be screaming "Scotty I need those shields up!"  Are the resists in Energy good?

I came close to recreating the SS/EA Brute (and part of me wishes I did because I know more about building than I did then). But literally the character I just finished levelling to 50 and IO'ing was a Savage/EA Scrapper and I wanted to step away from EA for my next melee (which is why the Brute I did make is SS/Bio).

[Linea]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:39 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

Brutal Mission Simulator 23710 ... If it is still too easy to survive ...

The Empath didn't even chip a nail. 

 

Runners Suck: Jil was however rather vexed at all the bosses running away like they'd been taking track lessons from Rommy.  Without the Runners Cia (Blaster) would have beat them all, and Jil (Empath) would have beat all but Cia (Blaster) and Kate (Scrapper).

 

Here are my top 5 (favorite) characters:

^{(These are NOT mirror builds, so grain of salt, tongue in cheek.  All are fully armored Tier 4 IO Incarnate Builds, built for standard Linea Armor instead of damage.)}

Kate (Kat/Bio scrapper): 9:05

Cia (Water/Atomic Blaster): 9:42 ... Runners Suck!

Asja (Kat/Ena Brute): 9:45

Lucy (SD/Radm Tank): 9:45

Jil (Empathy/Fire Defender): 13:14 ... Runners Suck!

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

17 hours ago, Infinitum said:

If you put the Critical Strikes Proc in Bone Smasher and lead with that you get Crit on TF pretty reliably - which in turn gives you double focus - double fast ET, and that pushes the scrapper slightly ahead of the Brute IMO - however the brute does great dmg across the board and itsnt far behind the scrapper but as far as EM is concerned - dmg wise its Stalker - Scrapper - Brute - Tanker.

That order was already basically a given though. 

 

It seems the ET fast thing is still a consideration keeping the gap larger?  

 

Also why bone smasher for the ATO?  Some were suggesting Total Focus. 

 

 

[SaintD]

12 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

So SS/EA would be your ultimate, "Can't be done on a Scrapper, Can't be done on a Tanker" build?

 

Oddly enough, I actually had one of those back on live.

Yeah but I hate SS. The set is ridiculously mediocre without Rage, to the point of being garbage because boring is a greater sin than underpowered, and I don't want to be running a constant cycle of Rage/crash/Rage/crash. And even with Rage....the whole set pretty much has Foot Stomp as the only, singular point of actually awesome and interesting focus, which you get absolutely dead last. Oh and it's the only AOE.

Basically, SS is trash on every level possible. No-one should play it, it's a trap. It should be completely remade and Rage should never have existed, but now no-one can conceive of straight up shitcanning it because the grognard minmaxers will cry.

Edited February 13, 2021 by SaintD

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

That order was already basically a given though. 

 

It seems the ET fast thing is still a consideration keeping the gap larger?  

 

Also why bone smasher for the ATO?  Some were suggesting Total Focus. 

 

 

Hitting with Bonesmasher first with the critical strikes proc in it maximizes the chance to crit the total focus following the bonesmasher attack.

 

If its in Total focus it has less of a chance to crit the moment with total focus attacking than if the power preceding it - bone smasher in this case was used to gain the proc chance to crit.

 

I tested this in Total Focus, Bonesmasher, and whirling hands - it actually worked best in whirling hands - but its borderline counter productive to attack first with whirling hands especially in single target situations - hence bone smasher being the next most viable option.

[Infinitum]

here is a chart that details how all the ATO procs work in case you didnt already know - or wanted to know - here it is either way.

 

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, SaintD said:

Yeah but I hate SS. The set is ridiculously mediocre without Rage, to the point of being garbage because boring is a greater sin than underpowered, and I don't want to be running a constant cycle of Rage/crash/Rage/crash. And even with Rage....the whole set pretty much has Foot Stomp as the only, singular point of actually awesome and interesting focus, which you get absolutely dead last. Oh and it's the only AOE.

Basically, SS is trash on every level possible. No-one should play it, it's a trap. It should be completely remade and Rage should never have existed, but now no-one can conceive of straight up shitcanning it because the grognard minmaxers will cry.

 

I cannot say any of your criticism of SS is untrue. I'm currently running an SS/Bio and while I do enjoy the character, the combo, and the overall feel...SS lags other sets in some serious ways and Rage crashing is seriously annoying. Even not crashing is annoying because you want to plan around the crash--"Don't want to pop Rage now because don't want Rage crash in middle of upcoming boss fight." And yeah, I took Cross Punch to have another AoE (well, and Stalagmites in the Epic).

 

Galaxy Brain's suggestion of slightly less defense for the entire duration for no crash strikes me as the best and most thematic suggestion. You're raging, not caring about anything but beating something down. Things have an easier time hitting you but you don't care because you're going to pulverize them.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Erratic1

[BLVD]

12 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

slightly less defense for the entire duration for no crash

100% agree with this. Would also love to see Hand Clap reworked into some something useful (like Power Crash with EM). Playing a Super Strength character on any content where Foot Stomp isn't available has been THE most boring time I've had in the game. Thematically, I would think this set should be the one that shines the most on Brutes, but it is SO boring at low levels. It would be so fun to run around with a full bar of Fury if Hand Clap was something more like Spinning Strike or Power Crash.

[Erratic1]

11 minutes ago, tan702 said:

100% agree with this. Would also love to see Hand Clap reworked into some something useful (like Power Crash with EM). Playing a Super Strength character on any content where Foot Stomp isn't available has been THE most boring time I've had in the game. Thematically, I would think this set should be the one that shines the most on Brutes, but it is SO boring at low levels. It would be so fun to run around with a full bar of Fury if Hand Clap was something more like Spinning Strike or Power Crash.

I exemplared down to run Synapse TF last night and was reduced to Cross Punch being my only area damage attack. No doubt someone would object but swapping Foot Stomp and Knockout Blow would be worth it in my book.

[Snarky]

12 hours ago, SaintD said:

Yeah but I hate SS. The set is ridiculously mediocre without Rage, to the point of being garbage because boring is a greater sin than underpowered, and I don't want to be running a constant cycle of Rage/crash/Rage/crash. And even with Rage....the whole set pretty much has Foot Stomp as the only, singular point of actually awesome and interesting focus, which you get absolutely dead last. Oh and it's the only AOE.

Basically, SS is trash on every level possible. No-one should play it, it's a trap. It should be completely remade and Rage should never have existed, but now no-one can conceive of straight up shitcanning it because the grognard minmaxers will cry.

I ran SS for a very.  very. very long time.  Even dropped back into a SS/Invul for my first main on Homecoming.

 

Yeah, Everything you said was true.

 

I do love the animations.  Knockout Blow is a hoot.

 

I suggest adding a SS similar set, much like Willpower to Invulnerability.  Smooth it out.  Make it good enough that people see it as a viable option.  Leave SS alone.  Just modernize a new version of it.  No gimmicks, no combos, heck, maybe no build up!  How about that for an oddity?  just solid across the board damage with steady usefulness.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

I exemplared down to run Synapse TF last night and was reduced to Cross Punch being my only area damage attack. No doubt someone would object but swapping Foot Stomp and Knockout Blow would be worth it in my book.

That's. Kinda how tankers are supposed to be that early on - lower dmg mostly ST - high survivability.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

That's. Kinda how tankers are supposed to be that early on - lower dmg mostly ST - high survivability.

/claws tanks chuckle

[Infinitum]

43 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

/claws tanks chuckle

Weeellll you have heard of exceptions to the rule I'm sure.  lol

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

/claws tanks chuckle

Another good early attack blooming tanker is fire fire surprisingly.

 

It isnt bad at high levels but a few of the attacks especially single target need tuning.

 

It did really well on a synapse for me.

[Bill Z Bubba]

24 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Another good early attack blooming tanker is fire fire surprisingly.

 

It isnt bad at high levels but a few of the attacks especially single target need tuning.

 

It did really well on a synapse for me.

There's quite a few sets that shine early and then fall behind.

 

I've enjoyed running content on my new ma/elec brute. It has reminded me of how the old days felt. That ain't a bad thing. I've enjoyed the sudden faceplants from that vanguard group. That's the kind of content change to affect balance that I like seeing.

[Infinitum]

On 2/12/2021 at 1:44 PM, Linea said:

The Empath didn't even chip a nail. 

 

Runners Suck: Jil was however rather vexed at all the bosses running away like they'd been taking track lessons from Rommy.  Without the Runners Cia (Blaster) would have beat them all, and Jil (Empath) would have beat all but Cia (Blaster) and Kate (Scrapper).

 

Here are my top 5 (favorite) characters:

^{(These are NOT mirror builds, so grain of salt, tongue in cheek.  All are fully armored Tier 4 IO Incarnate Builds, built for standard Linea Armor instead of damage.)}

Kate (Kat/Bio scrapper): 9:05

Cia (Water/Atomic Blaster): 9:42 ... Runners Suck!

Asja (Kat/Ena Brute): 9:45

Lucy (SD/Radm Tank): 9:45

Jil (Empathy/Fire Defender): 13:14 ... Runners Suck!

 

 

 

What was the difficulty setting on these?

[Linea]

On 2/14/2021 at 1:04 AM, Infinitum said:

What was the difficulty setting on these?

+4x8.

[Galaxy Brain]

On 2/12/2021 at 1:44 PM, Linea said:

The Empath didn't even chip a nail. 

 

Runners Suck: Jil was however rather vexed at all the bosses running away like they'd been taking track lessons from Rommy.  Without the Runners Cia (Blaster) would have beat them all, and Jil (Empath) would have beat all but Cia (Blaster) and Kate (Scrapper).

 

Here are my top 5 (favorite) characters:

^{(These are NOT mirror builds, so grain of salt, tongue in cheek.  All are fully armored Tier 4 IO Incarnate Builds, built for standard Linea Armor instead of damage.)}

Kate (Kat/Bio scrapper): 9:05

Cia (Water/Atomic Blaster): 9:42 ... Runners Suck!

Asja (Kat/Ena Brute): 9:45

Lucy (SD/Radm Tank): 9:45

Jil (Empathy/Fire Defender): 13:14 ... Runners Suck!

 

 

 

I'm very curious as well by your numbers given that BZB and Inf both got much much longer times. You mention being fully Incarnate, were you using all the Incarnate powers liberally?

 

@Bill Z Bubba, @Infinitum, could you perhaps slap on t4 powers and see if you match?

[Infinitum]

21 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I'm very curious as well by your numbers given that BZB and Inf both got much much longer times. You mention being fully Incarnate, were you using all the Incarnate powers liberally?

 

@Bill Z Bubba, @Infinitum, could you perhaps slap on t4 powers and see if you match?

Oh yeah i plan on it, thats got me very curious if Incarnates make the times that much better and then secondary to that which ones contribute the most.