"The Game is not Balanced around IO's"..... should it be?

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

You're not wrong. Just know that some of us are NOT in that camp.

 

Edit: Smart people are around here. There should be a way for us to both leave the lowbie game alone AND increase diff/rewards for those that can/do push it.

I've already conceded the war is over.

 

I just want them to be honest that the player side power creep and resulting easiness is real. 

 

=====

If we were actually to look at it as an issue (haha), maybe the place to look is the overly simplistic difficulty slider system.

 

All you get is higher level or equal to x heroes.  Why?  Why can't +4  add leadership powers to the LTs and simulated IO bonuses to the bosses?

[Bill Z Bubba]

20 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

All you get is higher level or equal to x heroes.  Why?  Why can't +4  add leadership powers to the LTs and simulated IO bonuses to the bosses?

It could. It's an option.

[Haijinx]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It could. It's an option.

Sort of. 

 

But its not really built in. 

 

If you max difficulty, the baddies should STOMP people with basic builds.  At least that's how it seems to me.   

 

In ye olde Dungeons and Dragons, if you just ignored magic weapons and armor, you would get ye olde buttocks handed to you. 

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Sort of. 

 

But its not really built in. 

 

If you max difficulty, the baddies should STOMP people with basic builds.  At least that's how it seems to me.   

 

In ye olde Dungeons and Dragons, if you just ignored magic weapons and armor, you would get ye olde buttocks handed to you. 

Except on 2nd Edition Barbarian from Unearthed Aracana....those things...it wasnt right lol  Especially if you combined the light armor pieces from the Asian sourcebook letting the Barbarian hit neg AC wearing just little un magic protection here and there....with Tank Health lol

[Haijinx]

13 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Except on 2nd Edition Barbarian from Unearthed Aracana....those things...it wasnt right lol  Especially if you combined the light armor pieces from the Asian sourcebook letting the Barbarian hit neg AC wearing just little un magic protection here and there....with Tank Health lol

pfft 1st Edition got DOUBLE Con Bonus and DOUBLE Dex Bonus 

 

And best 3 of 9 Dice for STR, 8 for Con and 7 for dex 

 

Still realistically at higher level they were gimped.  Arse Handed ye olde. 

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It could. It's an option.

Or try PvP 🤔 

[golstat2003]

6 hours ago, Haijinx said:

To be fair, although I think arcane is being confrontational here.

 

It feels a lot like confirmation bias when I read those posts also.  

 

Frankly a lot of the keep things moar easy arguements seem very closed minded.

I've always argued for NEW difficulty options while keeping the base game as is. Best of both worlds.

 

There is no need to touch the base game when you can add to the difficulty options. Other COH servers have already proven that out btw.

[golstat2003]

9 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

On an entirely objective, strict sense: various buffs to underperformers have made the game easier. This is warranted, but in the strictest of definitions this has made the game easier.

 

Access to Incarnates has also been made easier, making them more common than before.

 

Travel options have also made things easier in terms of what content to tackle and where.

 

Interestingly I never felt travel was all that difficult. Even before all the numerous buffs, getting to 14 for a travel power wasn't all that onerous. (and yeah I know some folks found it so).

[Snarky]

12 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I've always argued for NEW difficulty options while keeping the base game as is. Best of both worlds.

 

There is no need to touch the base game when you can add to the difficulty options. Other COH servers have already proven that out btw.

i have literally never contemplated this.  it took me so long to get used to +4.  now all i can think of is teams assuming you are running at +8, or gimpy +6...

[golstat2003]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

i have literally never contemplated this.  it took me so long to get used to +4.  now all i can think of is teams assuming you are running at +8, or gimpy +6...

Some servers other than HC have gone even higher than that . . .with other radical changes, while keeping the base game as is, for those who want the old traditional casual COH feel.

 

The experiences were . . . interesting in terms of difficulty. (and no aggro cap . . . yikes!)

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 2/21/2021 at 4:17 AM, Apparition said:

Anecdote isn't data, but if you hang out in Ouroboros long enough, you'll see a lot of level 50+3s without an IO enhancement set to their name.

 

This is also anecdote and not data, but I've been in a few roleplay crowds here and there and have found that folks who reach out to learn more about optimized building are often working with Basic IOs in lieu of sets, but not SOs. I think it's because Basic IOs have better values that SOs, and are priced affordably enough on the AH. But again, that's just my basic analysis.

 

These types of roleplay characters would also show as being without IO set bonuses in their powers tab, but would still be taking on the game at an improved position above the SO balance point.

 

Just food for thought.

Edited February 24, 2021 by twozerofoxtrot

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:56 AM, Troo said:

This may simply be a result of p2w exp boosts.

Yes, it's easy (as intended) but the leveling happens quickly enough that it discourages gearing up for some folks.

+acc and some end mitigation is definitely needed after 30.

 

Damn there is a lot of truth to this. 

 

When I play on *cough* other servers, the lack of P2W boosts is quite noticeable, and it impacts how I "gear up" accordingly. Despite the AH being void and unbinned like the HC AH, I still find it easier to craft IOs starting in my mid-20s and slot those, than wait for SOs of the right category to drop. The slower leveling means that salvage comes rolling in, even (or because of?) when capable of running at +0/x4. 

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:13 PM, Myrmidon said:

AE could use either a rethink or a shutdown.

This would dramatically impact RP SGs that use AE to craft their own narrative arcs.

 

Even though I don't play as part of that world anymore, I'd be strongly against shutting down AE for this reason alone. 
 

On 2/23/2021 at 2:39 AM, Myrmidon said:

AE is completely wasted on being a farming hub when it could be used to make more of that challenging content balance that is being discussed here.

 

Have you tried some of @Linea's maps? I don't know if they are advertised outside of Everlasting, but they put on some hurt at the 801.5 and above iterations.

Edited February 24, 2021 by twozerofoxtrot

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

I've always argued for NEW difficulty options while keeping the base game as is. Best of both worlds.

 

There is no need to touch the base game when you can add to the difficulty options. Other COH servers have already proven that out btw.

Okay and these options provide more rewards?  

 

Or some reason to play them?  

 

Unfortunately the traditional reason in MMOs -more xp- is ruined in COH. 

 

Id suggest that +3 isn't really hard enough to merit much in the way of added reward. 

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

Interestingly I never felt travel was all that difficult. Even before all the numerous buffs, getting to 14 for a travel power wasn't all that onerous. (and yeah I know some folks found it so).

It was only annoying if you needed to use the Tailor at low level.

 

Using sprint at level 5 to get to the Tailor in IH was a bit rough.  

 

Course the first KR bank mission gave a jetpack so ..

[golstat2003]

11 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Damn there is a lot of truth to this. 

 

When I play on *cough* other servers, the lack of P2W boosts is quite noticeable, and it impacts how I "gear up" accordingly. Despite the AH being void and unbinned like the HC AH, I still find it easier to craft IOs starting in my mid-20s and slot those, than wait for SOs of the right category to drop. The slower leveling means that salvage comes rolling in, even (or because of?) when capable of running at +0/x4. 

On the other servers, I pretty much pretend the AH doesn't exist. On one it's literally empty 24/7 since the population can't support it. Luckily they implemented buying IOs in AE with inf and tickets. 😛 

[golstat2003]

7 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Okay and these options provide more rewards?  

 

Or some reason to play them?  

 

Unfortunately the traditional reason in MMOs -more xp- is ruined in COH. 

 

Id suggest that +3 isn't really hard enough to merit much in the way of added reward. 

I trust that when the HC devs get to it, they'll know how to implement it. Based on what I've seen and read (especially recently from actual dev posts on another thread from yesterday) they really know what they are doing.

 

I consider inf to also be a reward. Especially post 50.

[golstat2003]

7 hours ago, Haijinx said:

It was only annoying if you needed to use the Tailor at low level.

 

Using sprint at level 5 to get to the Tailor in IH was a bit rough.  

 

Course the first KR bank mission gave a jetpack so ..

yeah true! I was even referring to before bank missions though. When we all traveled through the Hollows on foot, uphill, both ways. 😛 (yes, that's a boomer/dad joke, sue me)

[Bill Z Bubba]

8 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

yeah true! I was even referring to before bank missions though. When we all traveled through the Hollows on foot, uphill, both ways. 😛 (yes, that's a boomer/dad joke, sue me)

Say what? I hovered in the hollows! Point in the right direction, go eat lunch, pour a beer and have a smoke, come back to the computer and hit the forums for a while... eventually I'd get to the mission.

[Galaxy Brain]

So, lets toss a hypothetical out there.

 

Say tomorrow we log in and any non proc, unique/special (stuff like LotG which isn't "unique"), purple, etc, IO's could simply drop into your tray as you play. How do you think this would impact your experience?

[America's Angel]

What I'd love (speaking only for myself here):

 

-New level 50 missions/trials/TFs that have stupidly OP fight mechanics. I don't mean missions per se. I mean the end bosses of them. Just stupidly hard to fight. They laugh at defense softcaps/-res debuffs/inspiration stacking/destiny/judgement/procs/all other level 50 min/max staples. They break all the rules. (And these "end bosses" would be tweaked every ~3 months so that the strategy for defeating them would never be the same. Similar to how Hamidon was in the early days of live.)

 

Of course you'd only be able to do this if you introduced new incarnate slots/currency that can only be unlocked fighting these bosses. (Otherwise people would just ignore them like they do Dark Astoria.)

 

I'd rather this be the direction the PVE game moves in. Rebalancing the ITF/LGTF/etc around tricked out IOs and Incarnate powers just seems so misguided. The game is 17 years old. It doesn't matter how quickly you can run through old content.

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

(Otherwise people would just ignore them like they do Dark Astoria.)

Weird. I spend more time in DA than any other zone.

[Galaxy Brain]

11 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

-New level 50 missions/trials/TFs that have stupidly OP fight mechanics. I don't mean missions per se. I mean the end bosses of them. Just stupidly hard to fight. They laugh at defense softcaps/-res debuffs/inspiration stacking/destiny/judgement/procs/all other level 50 min/max staples. They break all the rules. (And these "end bosses" would be tweaked every ~3 months so that the strategy for defeating them would never be the same. Similar to how Hamidon was in the early days of live.)

I'd love it if you had the bosses have actually random buffs like Diablo 3 encounters, so each time is difficult and hard to prepare for / game it.

[America's Angel]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Weird. I spend more time in DA than any other zone.

Well aren't you Mr. Specialpants.

 

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I'd love it if you had the bosses have actually random buffs like Diablo 3 encounters, so each time is difficult and hard to prepare for / game it.

Yesss.

[Grindingsucks]

9 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

So, lets toss a hypothetical out there.

 

Say tomorrow we log in and any non proc, unique/special (stuff like LotG which isn't "unique"), purple, etc, IO's could simply drop into your tray as you play. How do you think this would impact your experience?

You didn't tag anyone, so I'm assuming you're posing the question to anyone here, who happens to be reading the topic.

 

To get just plain old IO's, I either have to craft them (from recipes that drop or recipes that I buy off the AH) or buy them outright from the AH.  I don't want to use my fun time in the game for that stuff.  I just want to play the comic book action parts of the game and/or engage in roleplay.  

 

I do understand that lots of people enjoy the task of crafting items and working the market.  I'm just not one of them.