Pools, all of them

[RageusQuitus2]

On 3/11/2021 at 7:15 AM, Nightmarer said:

Presence Pool: Well, despite a couple people using it in game, I think we all can agree that it's by far weakest power pool.

Sorry I dont agree i use provoke and unrelenting on many of my toons.  MMs definitely benefit.  My crab, and scrappers have used it as well.  Lots of IO set options in that pool.  

[Incursion]

Seems most of the no’s don’t want any changes to the game. I feel like we are losing sight of the fun aspect of building and using different powers. There is a lot of fluff in the power pools, it’s absurd to me that the so many powers are considering skippable or just used as path to get something else. I know

Thats subject to opinion/interpretation but if it weren’t a thing we wouldn’t all be here talking about it. To me it’s lame. Because of the current system of give up a power choice to progress the pool it should at the very least allow more than 4. Also there are now more total pools available. I fail to see how that could be game breaking and if it makes some players happy, it certainly won’t be at the detriment of someone else’s build.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Incursion said:

Seems most of the no’s don’t want any changes to the game.

As they say [[Citation Needed]].  Plenty of people are open to changes in the game, a quick perusal of the Beta forum should make that quite clear.  What people are against aren't changes.  They're against ill thought out changes that break some of the fundamental design assumptions behind the game.  Removing pre-requisites, removing pool power limits, moving certain very powerful powers to inherent...  All of these break fundamental assumptions about the amount and type of powers available to the player character.  Fundamental assumptions that shape the design of every mob and challenge in the game.

As far as throwing shade...  Don't you remember how that turned out barely twelve hours ago?

[Alchemystic]

People want change, just the right kind of change.

 

If you wanna see what CoH looks like where balance and game health arent considered in its content updates, take a look at WeHaveCake.

[Alchemystic]

7 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

As far as throwing shade...  Don't you remember how that turned out barely twelve hours ago?

 

There's a saying about glass houses 🤣

[Greycat]

Just now, Tyrannical said:

 

There's a saying about glass houses 🤣

They're great for growing plants. *nods*

[GM Lines]

It's very important to us that everyone does have a chance to be heard and we want this to be a good avenue for people to discuss their findings about the game. Though obviously the dev team won't always act on it, we do welcome blue-sky thinking even where they may appear to be fundamental changes to the game.

 

Naturally, with a community this size, folks will have different opinions. And that's great! Just be sure that you're giving others the space to share theirs.

Keep it civil and chill, keep the discussion coming. It's always great to see.

 

❤️

[Incursion]

11 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

As they say [[Citation Needed]].  Plenty of people are open to changes in the game, a quick perusal of the Beta forum should make that quite clear.  What people are against aren't changes.  They're against ill thought out changes that break some of the fundamental design assumptions behind the game.  Removing pre-requisites, removing pool power limits, moving certain very powerful powers to inherent...  All of these break fundamental assumptions about the amount and type of powers available to the player character.  Fundamental assumptions that shape the design of every mob and challenge in the game.

As far as throwing shade...  Don't you remember how that turned out barely twelve hours ago?

 

my main point above is the fun factor, i won't get into the merits of the other thread here. Regarding opening the pools, how is that fundementally changing anything. If that were the case it was fundamentally changed experimentation, sorcery and force of willl were added.  You have 3 more choices but are still locked in at 4. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[Incursion]

To further my point - I still fail to see how opening up additional pools is game breaking since io’s and incarnates were introduced. Additional pool selections under the current system will not break anything fundamentally and is probably the most simple of solutions regarding pools.it was destined to have limits but when you move the goal posts and add more pools, I think it’s a logical step to increase the amount of accessible pools. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[tidge]

On 3/10/2021 at 6:38 PM, Nightmarer said:

It's been a while since I've seen Pool powers discussed on the weekly discussions and I think it would be a nice place to input a few things to make the game more interesting:

 

• Presence Pool: Does anybody at all take it? Is it worth trying to revamp it again or better just get rid of it? I don't think it's in a good place as it is

 

The Presence Pool is one of my favorites, especially for defense-based characters. The gems:

• Provoke <- A multi-target taunt. It requires a ToHit check, and has a smaller number of targets than Taunt, but it is superior to (single-target) Confront of Scrappers and VEATs IMO.
• Invoke Panic <- A PBAoE "soft" control, that also allows for some %damage
• Unrelenting <- If your character has high recharge, this power doubles as both a sort of self-Healing and a Damage boost, in addition to having a self-rez

The Mediocre:

• Intimidate <- A single-target "soft" control loses a LOT of utility as the content scales. I find that it's best utility is for "stacking" with other Fear affects. Without a %contagious Fear proc to slot (similar to %Contagious Confusion), this power doesn't merit the investment in slots.

The stinker:

• Pacify <- Extremely limited circumstances of utility, and doesn't even duplicate the Placate on AT which have a dedicated Placate. I understand why (from the PoV of "pools shouldn't be as good as AT variants) but the Placate mechanic is already pretty bad (for most circumstances) I would allow Pacify to duplicate Placate (for AT with Placate).
• Having to take two powers before Invoke Panic or Unrelenting.

 

The pool would have a LOT more love IMO if we could pick either Invoke Panic or Unrelenting as the SECOND power pick.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Sorry I missed this thread when I asked for the same:

I'm on board. Open it all up. While I can agree adding more power creep is bad, compared to all the other atrocities, this one just ain't doin much.

 

[MTeague]

I would like to see the "this power requires two others" reconsidered for some pool choices. I think @tidge is spot on about Presence having two good powers in #4 and #5, but having some really cruddy powers in the way of them.  That said, I have some hope that Presence is due some love to begin with, so, I will simply be patient and see what does or does not come to pass. 

 

Medicine, I could argue either way.  Aid Self is always tempting, but really unless I'm on a highly defense based character, or possibly a controller who might buy time to use it after an AE Hold, it's not practical to use in mid-combat. Just doesn't come up that much. When I do take it though, I don't think I've ever seriously made use of Aid Other or Stimulant.

 

Sorcery I have some characters who I'd like to take Ignite on without two other power selections, but honestly, Sorcery is good enough as-is, I don't really mind it. Between Spirit Ward and Mystic Flight, there's very good low-hanging pre-reqs available. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by MTeague

[Zeraphia]

On 3/10/2021 at 6:38 PM, Nightmarer said:

It's been a while since I've seen Pool powers discussed on the weekly discussions and I think it would be a nice place to input a few things to make the game more interesting:

 

• Presence Pool: Does anybody at all take it? Is it worth trying to revamp it again or better just get rid of it? I don't think it's in a good place as it is?

I actually DO take the Presence pool on *occasion* for a niche purpose of taunting Lord Recluse in MLTF on my Fortunata. It's definitely not something most people would be interested in, but I find having him aggro'd to my widow is overall better than people who obviously cannot take him on attempting it.

 

Could it be improved? Yes, definitely. Personally, I think that it could be auto-hit rather than a chance to miss, and the recharge could be faster or something to at least compensate for the fact that you can miss with it. I also think the duration (only 8 seconds) is rather short. 

 

On the whole, this set is hardly used, not because the utility isn't good, but because we're limited by 4 power pool selections. A large portion of my characters could benefit from the cap of 4 power pools being reduced went away. 

[Galaxy Brain]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:15 AM, Nightmarer said:

Jump Kick: Very heroic animation but way too long for shitty dmg

Mega late to the thread, but I recently saw that Jump Kick actually has a 1.5s animation time just like Air Superiority and does the same damage. It's just it has a 20% chance of knock unlike Air Sup's 100%.