Pools, all of them

[Nightmarer 2]

It's been a while since I've seen Pool powers discussed on the weekly discussions and I think it would be a nice place to input a few things to make the game more interesting:

 

• Presence Pool: Does anybody at all take it? Is it worth trying to revamp it again or better just get rid of it? I don't think it's in a good place as it is
• Pool power pre-requisites: Incarnated characters are overpowered, would it be such a difference if we had extra power choices by removing pre-requisites? I personally would love not having to take Boxing to get to Tough / Weave or being able to take Acrobatics straight away. Same for Patron / Ancillary, is wasting one or two power choices necessary?
• Pool limit: Is it really important being limited to 4 power pools? Why? Is it really game breaking if we can choose any power from any pool?
• "Must have" Powers: Any chance that certain powers being treated as Fitness Pool? I think we all know a couple Pool Powers most of us get for most if not all our chars, Hasten and Combat Jumping spring to mind. Also, travel Powers, why not detach them from Power Pools and unlock them at a certain lvl? 

 

I don't think any of the above would be more game breaking than any fully incarnated and with a set IO build char is nowadays, in fact, they could bring variety and flavor to all characters and the implementation seems to be easier than other tasks such as designing new powersets and new content.

 

Also, somewhat related is the subject of Scrapper / Stalker Patron snipes. Is it really a good idea having the best or second best attack of a melee char to be a snipe? I know there's always someone who will say "don't like it then don't take it" which is fair enough but still, it's piss poor design, let's call things by their name. One thing is having a ranged attack which I am the first one to admit it's helpful but come on, in some cases the snipe is the ST attack taht deals higher dmg and it's even a better opener than Assassin Strike in some cases so, is this really the way it should work? Why not having in this particular case maybe a choice between two excluding powers, one being the snipe and the other being some sort of power that, dunno, buffs a T2 or T3 melee attack to deal same amount of dmg as the snipe which would be more in tune with melee char? or maybe another AoE? I don't know, I like having attacks taht deal dmg but the way snipes work for scrappers and stalkers is bad design, period.

 

Anyway, just wanted to share a few things that I think (I might be wrong) are not terribly hard and time consuming to implement and would offer lots of new and interesting choices.

[SwitchFade]

First things first...

 

 

Nerf Regen.

[Mezmera]

I'm going to have to say to most of your bullet points I'm going to have to disagree with.  Fitness was just an always must have power for just about every AT and it was totally valid to in essence give us a 5th pool but one for free.  The rest of the powers in the pools should feel like a cost to get them. 

 

Hasten is pretty much a must have and one of the best pool powers there is at a cost of one of your pool selections.  Tough/Weave is great to have at a cost of taking an attack to start they likely won't use.  On that same token I'll agree on the first bullet point.  In the presence pool there's only really one viable power at the end where you need to take likely two dead powers, I wouldn't mind seeing a power available that would be of better use as the 2nd selectable power.  

 

But then you do have the Origin pools which seem to dabble into a lot of what your wishes are for.  I never take combat jumping but I do take the Force of Will pool for my viable travel, a useful ST debuff and then a hell of a defense power.  I'd say for the most part we're in a good place for the pool powers.  

 

I will say though I agree with @SwitchFade we need to Nerf Regen first and foremost.  

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Mezmera

[Alchemystic]

Another thread wanting free Hasten/Combat Jumping, must be Wednesday.

[Moka]

Having played other servers where this is the case and you can do this, you'd be surprised how overtuned it makes your character and suddenly you realize there's not many free powers left to pick except gimmicky ones or flavor ones like laser eyes. It's rare lately I can't fit every power I want in a build so I don't mind the boxing or kick prerequisite. 

 

I'm also a believer hasten isn't a must have for some powersets. You don't need it on a willpower character, for example, because you don't have any toggles requiring it. 

[arcane]

I really wonder where it ends sometimes. Is there a server yet where you just start with fitness, hasten, super speed, combat jumping, and soft capped defenses, and all the mobs are 50+4 hellions, and all positioning-intensive mechanics have been deleted? And if not why not? Because a game my cat can dominate at is clearly in demand.

[Moka]

Just now, arcane said:

I really wonder where it ends sometimes. Is there a server yet where you just start with fitness, hasten, super speed, combat jumping, and soft capped defenses, and all the mobs are 50+4 hellions, and all positioning-intensive mechanics have been deleted? And if not why not? Because a game my cat can dominate at is clearly in demand.

WeHaveCake is pretty close. 

[SeraphimKensai]

I think prerequisites on power choices are fine, but it would be cool to remove the limit of 5 pools. I have a character named Mediocre Man that is all about using power pools a d temp powers instead of primary/secondary powers.

 

Imagine having 8 power pools on a character.

[Andreah]

The steady power creep we've seen over the years hasn't really been kept up to by corresponding increases in normal content difficulty. And yet the game still works. 

 

We need to keep a sense of constraint on build choices or it may not stay that way much longer.

[Andreah]

I could see a future incarnate slot giving the equivalents, or even literal duplicates, of various pool powers. Each higher tier might be a power further down the pool depth. Maybe left vs right side are how they're pre-slotted. 

[Outrider_01]

Hasten cuts recharge nearly in half, your 16 sec second recharge is 8.  Stack global it gets even lower. grats game is now easier then Incarnate. 

[Outrider_01]

In before 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

First things first...

 

 

Nerf Regen.

DAMN IT!!!

[BrandX]

Just today I saw someone with the Presence Pool!

 

That said, I don't find I need Hasten nearly as much as many people on the forums say.  I get lots of mileage out of global recharge buffs.  😛

[Andreah]

What would we have to do to the presence pool to make it a contender? I shudder to think.

[RCU7115]

Out of the 40+ tpons I have only my warshade and peace ringer use hasten and combat jumping. I usually forgot to click hasten seeing how it has a long recharge so it becomes a wasted power for me. Lol

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, Moka said:

I'm also a believer hasten isn't a must have for some powersets.

 

Or ATs! I build my Doms Hasten-free now. Not particularly hard to get to permadom with set bonuses and S/L Def Softcap is pretty easy as well. 

 

Doms are so over-packed with offensive powers, having more than ~150 global recharge just means you're probably only using a tiny fraction of your combined two sets; it's a waste.

[twozerofoxtrot]

3 hours ago, Nightmarer said:

I personally would love ... to take Acrobatics straight away.

 

3 hours ago, Nightmarer said:

"Must have" Powers: ... Combat Jumping spring to mind.

 

Wait, what?

[archgemini24]

I wouldn't mind not having to deal with throwaway powers to get some the pool powers I want, but at least the throwaways mean they are not candidates for slots. Things get tight as it is (especially on my Kheldians) let alone if I had more potential picks. Most of my characters would just take other powers that would see more base-slot corner-case use (like Glowing Touch or a Scrapper that might finally take Confront, lol!).

 

I like the pool limit, though. If I want what feels like my general all-purpose loadout (Hasten, CJ, Weave, and Leadership)? Sure, I could have it in just those 4-6 picks, but hopefully Stealth wasn't part of my plans, or Unleash Potential, Unrelenting, Rune of Protection, or any of the other neat tricks.

 

I would like to see not only more cross-play within the pools (like how Boxing and Kick buff Cross Punch), but between the pools (i.e. having Boxing and Kick grant small damage or other buffs to Flurry or Jump Kick).

[Replacement]

I have presence on a few toons. It's not amazing but I don't see why people act like it's such garbage.

Placate on a ninjutsu scrapper is funny, provoke on a Sentinel is actually really useful, and fear is a decent mez that takes procs. Unrelenting is also nice and thematic on a few characters.

 

I'm not saying "guys, this is good stuff." But there are at least 2 stinker powers in every pool, and I'd place many of them below an aoe taunt.

In the case of medicine, there are close to 5 worse choices!

 

Tbh, I just want the epic treatment right now.

2 powers with no reqs

2 powers with 1 req

1 power with 2 reqs

(Different rules for travel sets)

[DreadShinobi]

6 hours ago, Nightmarer said:

 

• Pool power pre-requisites: would it be such a difference if we had extra power choices by removing pre-requisites? I personally would love not having to take Boxing to get to Tough / Weave or being able to take Acrobatics straight away. Same for Patron / Ancillary, is wasting one or two power choices necessary?
• Pool limit: Is it really important being limited to 4 power pools? Why? Is it really game breaking if we can choose any power from any pool?

These two ideas would need to be mutually exclusive. If you could have any number of power pools AND choose any pool power without prerequisites, it would absolutely break the game.

[Nightmarer 2]

Hmmm, a few interesting replies. Keep it coming guys, in any case, I think whatever comes out (especially if it's just leaving things as they are) shouldn't be too difficult / time consuming to implement and should improve the game.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Nightmarer
Following wise advice

[Archy]

As a min/maxer the current system basically always "forces" me to go for the usual speed/leaping/fighting/leadership pools (with a few exceptions) which basically means all my chars essentially becomes the same.
I would LOVE to be able to fit some flavour powers in there...

This thread quickly devolved into believing @Nightmarer just want inherent Hasten, which is really not what he's saying...

Personally feel something like all travelpowers should be inherent. (perhaps not at lvl 1 but at a later lvl) and really wouldn't break the game.

I agree that opening up for all Pools will break the game completely but just be really nice to have some more options...

[Moka]

I don't think name calling is really the way to go. 

 

I could perhaps budge on opening more than 4 power pools (and presence really does need a rework sometime) but opening it up to the point of no investment needed would really break things more than it shows. 

[Jacktar]

Hi, have the power pools had any sort of major love/changes to them since the game started? 

I know we get the fitness pool and some new pools have been added?

 

Anyways my only thoughts are about “Group Fly”. (candidate for most hated/pointless power pick atm?)

I would rip it out of the pool system completely and shove it in the P2W system for a cost.

And at the same time I would make it have a sensibly set fixed fly speed that affects all alts/pets under its aura. (Group Fly that flies us as a group, that would be nice)

Then I could take it on my Mm’s right from the first pet and actually all fly as a group!

I would also change the global default setting “Affected by Group Fly” to Off so no more whining about it from everybody else on my team ever!

Null is there if you want in.

 

Then let the Dev’s do whatever they want to fill the empty power slot in the pool with a new power  perhaps or re arrange some from the othe fly pool we now have. Let them have some fun coming up with something a bit radical and novel for us all to moan about.

 

Cheers

Edited March 11, 2021 by Jacktar
minor rant about Group Fly added

[Nightmarer 2]

Ok, for what I am reading, I guess most of us agree one way or another that opening choices to more than 4 pools would work (yet to determine if 5 or more) and also seems to be agreement in, if not making all pool power choices straight away free, maybe some sort of rework to, either avoid being forced to choose crap powers or maybe rework crap powers and make them into something useful (which would be the ideal scenario).

 

Most useless powers I see in Power Pools are:

Jump Kick: Very heroic animation but way too long for shitty dmg

Boxing / Kick: By themselves are rubbish dmg.

Flurry: Yet another Sands of Mu.

Afterburner: Just another LotG mule I guess

Presence Pool: Well, despite a couple people using it in game, I think we all can agree that it's by far weakest power pool.

 

I can understand that powers such as Group Fly, as someone mentioned, or Aid Other are useful for certain AT's such as Masterminds so not including them in the list

 

Can we agree that improving the above powers and in the case of Boxing / Kick maybe not having them as a mandatory pre-requisite for Tough / Weave (or maybe make that just choosing one of them fully buffs Cross Punch, dunno, all suggestions are welcome or make all pools to follow same structure as travel Pools, having 3 powers as first choice) would be good for the game?

 

Thing is, I think they've done a great job with Teleportation Pool and I'd honestly love seeing more progress in that sense because it seems a not difficult and not very time consuming avenue to imporve the game (being "seems" the operative word here since I am not a programmer / dev so I don't honestly know).

 

Of course, I'd love a full revamp of Pool Powers, but I can't forget devs here are people who volunteer part of their free time to improve this game so I am trying to suggest solutions that seem easier and more straightforward than what me and probably lots of us would really like to see (in my case, a full and thorough revamp of Power Pools, a full revamp of the Claws set, a full review of Martial Assault for Dominators, Implementation of Wind and Water Control, Melee Defenders... ah well).

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Nightmarer