Focused Feedback: Power Changes (Release Candidates)

[siolfir]

8 minutes ago, scottocamp said:

Seems like three different debates playing out here:

And none of them should be, which is why I had already planned on hiding posts (after a PM to the person they were addressing) when I was beat to it by a GM. All of those discussions should be taken elsewhere instead of cluttering a "focused feedback" thread.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

16 minutes ago, Moka said:

I whole heartedly agree. Matt "Positron" Miller had stated himself in one of the AMAs that he was wanting people to stop making alts and focus on one character. If you're to take that design philosophy in mind with a linear experience, they truly were trying to reel in the amount of powers that would be viable. Radiation Armor is nearly uncontested as a resist set, just as Bio Armor is as an all-around set. Titan Weapon's pre-nerf AOE damage was bonkers. I think they truly were trying to bring the game into a "Play it this way or else" mindset, which is where City of Heroes awkwardly fell off on and it's up to Homecoming to undo the mess Paragon started. Unfortunately, in the two years Homecoming's been active, it's become something people are used to and the idea of being slightly less "good" is terrifying to them. But I have to applaud that Homecoming rarely does nerfs without also buffing something about whatever they're nerfing, too.

 

How is what Matt Miller said over a decade ago relevant in the here and now? Also, how could we square the idea of getting players to focus on one alt with being given 1000 character slots per server in homecoming?

 

If the homecoming dev team wants players to enjoy alts, which 1000 character slots per server seems to suggest, then there's a solid case for supporting build diversity when making power calibration decisions. Ergo, there's a case for making a broad selection of power pools appealing to players, rather than just the 3 or 4 pools that are currently popular. 

 

In the aggregate, making rune an even more unpopular pick by nerfing its duration will probably just increase the proportion of cookie cutter builds that players run. Are there reasonable grounds for making any other prediction about how build diversity will change if the proposed change to rune goes live? 

[Moka]

5 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

 

How is what Matt Miller said over a decade ago relevant in the here and now? Also, how could we square the idea of getting players to focus on one alt with being given 1000 character slots per server in homecoming?

 

If the homecoming dev team wants players to enjoy alts, which 1000 character slots per server seems to suggest, then there's a solid case for supporting build diversity when making power calibration decisions. Ergo, there's a case for making a broad selection of power pools appealing to players, rather than just the 3 or 4 pools that are currently popular. 

 

In the aggregate, making rune an even more unpopular pick by nerfing its duration will probably just increase the proportion of cookie cutter builds that players run. Are there reasonable grounds for making any other prediction about how build diversity will change if the proposed change to rune goes live? 

Nowhere did I say I agreed with him. I was saying on live, Paragon were trying to introduce a pay to win powercreep with their new powersets and power pools. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Moka

[ScarySai]

I don't envy the mods right now.

[Moka]

Me neither, but this has been civil compared to a few threads. 

 

I didn't know rune of protection was unpopular. Regardless of its popularity, I find it pretty strong and having tested it in the beta server, assuming the changes DID go through there, I hardly noticed a difference playing through +4/x8 content. But I'm always someone who likes the unpopular pick. I like warshades, after all...

Edited March 24, 2021 by Moka

[ScarySai]

I'm also a big kheldian fan, the weird sets are my favorite ones.

 

I just find it odd that things like fold space and are added and are somehow kosher, while the one power in a terrible power pool that isn't terrible has its duration cut by a third.

 

Those arguing that this change is going to stop "squishies" from dominating are coming across as clueless, because this won't change that at all. Fire/fire blasters, kinetic corruptors and cold domination users will still be on top of the food chain, they didn't use it to begin with.

 

 

[Moka]

Fold space tends to get me yelled at in teams so I stopped using it as much. I must agree sorcery needs an overall rework since mystic flight is just Bad Flight and the other powers are just awful.

[ScarySai]

It will need a rework if this goes through, hopefully it dies like the much more well liked eagles claw change did last beta.

 

Though, the simple and preferred solution is to leave rune alone until said rework, not remove it and then pray for a rework.

Edited March 24, 2021 by ScarySai

[DreadShinobi]

12 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

So, why exactly is 60 seconds not enough? Why does it have to be 90? Why do squishies need nearly complete mez protection? What's the issue with not steamrolling? Why is the gap so bad? Why should that 1 power by so overtuned?

 

Is it absolutely necessary to faceroll everything on a blaster with no fear of status.... And then half the community complains about how afkeasy the game is? What's the issue with changing tactics when it's down for 60 seconds? When a blaster nuke is down, should the player changes tactics? Perhaps we should reduce nuke recharge to 10 seconds so we can just spam it? RoP is part of a build, not the overriding defining facet that makes a squishy ignore mez in whole.

 

Status effects are part of the game, squishies should be affected by it, they get many benefits that balance that fact, this is an MMo where teaming is a core concept, and not every build is supposed to be solo facetank lol no-mez blaster level damage 100% of the time. RoP at 60 seconds up is an incredible part of a build. Now, uptuned other pools to match.

My perspective is that rather than nerf powers we have that are honestly fine as is, focus should be on looking at how a player interacts with different factions of enemy groups in the game. RoP isnt 100% mez immunity it is partial coverage and there is no reason that "squishy" archetypes shouldnt be able to dip into options to cover holes if that is something they want to do. Mez powers in enemy groups shouldnt be a tax that only affects certain archetypes while others can ignore those mechanics completely. Imo there should be critters or encounters where you may be faced with strong high mag mez powers that can stun you through RoP or melee archetype standard protection in addition to all the low mag mez encounters we have currently that some archetypes can ignore. IMO every AT should have permanent mez protection of at least mag 3 to avoid a single application of a mez affect and mez as a whole should act more like def debuffs and cascading defense failure where more enemy groups should have access to mez that may stack up on you and overcome your protection if you don't deal with the threats appropriately. There should be more enemy groups that actually make you think before you mindlessly jump into everything like theyre all council. Enemy groups should have more access to buffers and debuffers that need to be eliminated first to not have issues with the encounter, like tsoo sorcs, malta sappers, master illusionists, etc. The reason blasters are so overtuned right now is because the game doesnt present a challenge where it could, so the only thing that really matters is how much damage you can output, and not how you can adapt to different situations that may pose a challenge to overcome (which RoP would be adept at doing)

 

I have posted several times that the current difficulty settings we have is outdated. Higher level enemies and spawn size is no longer relevant. The purple patch is outdated and prevents increasing the difficulty to higher levels than +4 (which is more accurately capped at +3 at endgame). New difficulty settings that add extra challenge critters to every faction would be amazing to see. Like +difficulty that adds poison debuffers that cast envenom, weaken, neuro breath, and alkaloid to groups like snakes or arachnoids. Winter horde that casts sleet, heat loss, or ice shields. Council that cast LRM missiles or surveillance. Circle of thorns with access to rune of Protection. The warriors with leadership buffs and build up or more tier 9s. Hellions and skulls that can cast inferno and blackstar respectively. Malta that summons robot henchmen or the family or tsoo that cast gang war. Enemy groups that have higher base damage resistance would be a big deal too so things cant be just one-two shotted.

 

Until there are enemy groups that arent subject to "damage output is king and death is the ultimate debuff" the game will always be afk easy. @Linea 's contribution to the mission architect is a good example of what this game could be.

Edited March 25, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Glacier Peak]

5 hours ago, Moka said:

Fold space tends to get me yelled at in teams so I stopped using it as much. I must agree sorcery needs an overall rework since mystic flight is just Bad Flight and the other powers are just awful.

Mystic Flight's cap is the same as Fly. And through Mystic Flight, a player has access to Translocation. So I can't discern how is it "Bad Flight"?

 

Did you conclude this from testing the power by itself or against other travel powers? If so, please post your results so that myself and other beta testers can compare. 

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Mystic Flight's cap is the same as Fly. And through Mystic Flight, a player has access to Translocation. So I can't discern how is it "Bad Flight"?

 

Did you conclude this from testing the power by itself or against other travel powers? If so, please post your results so that myself and other beta testers can compare. 

 

I'd like mystic flight a lot more if it took range boosts for translocation.

 

Otherwise, i'd rather have hover/fly/afterburner/evasive maneuvers offered by the updated fly pool.

[Moka]

42 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

I'd like mystic flight a lot more if it took range boosts for translocation.

 

Otherwise, i'd rather have hover/fly/afterburner/evasive maneuvers offered by the updated fly pool.

That's honestly it for me. Translocation is such a short distance it's quicker to just fly than to wait for the animation. It's mostly just flavor. 

[Jacke]

20 hours ago, ScarySai said:

I'd like mystic flight a lot more if it took range boosts for translocation.

 

20 hours ago, Moka said:

Translocation is such a short distance it's quicker to just fly than to wait for the animation. It's mostly just flavor. 

 

I believe the Range enhancement in Universal Travel IOs buff its range.  Even without that, I've seen on Live Translocation being faster than Fly.

 

EDIT: And @Glacier Peak just tested this on the current Beta and Universal Travel IOs do not buff Translocation range.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Jacke

[arthurh35353]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:54 AM, GM Arcanum said:

Freedom Corps > Nullifier > Sonic Grenade

• The visual FX for this power has been changed to alleviate headaches being induced by the old FX

Is the Longbow Lt. power getting the same treatment? Please say it is so?

[Coyote]

10 hours ago, Moka said:

That's honestly it for me. Translocation is such a short distance it's quicker to just fly than to wait for the animation. It's mostly just flavor. 

 

Same, though I've gotten good use of Mystic Flight / Translocation on squishies who are Immobilized, and on both squishies and melees who are greatly Slowed, to get out of patches or reposition at better than a slow-motion crawl.

[Glacier Peak]

13 hours ago, Jacke said:

I believe the Range enhancement in Universal Travel IOs buff its range.  Even without that, I've seen on Live Translocation being faster than Fly.

I tested this on beta and it did not. I could not find any ways to increase the default distance of Translocation.

 

 

[arcane]

Also the implication that Spirit Ward is half as useless as, say, Boxing or Kick is incorrect. Not only is it a decent power, but it’s a free extra enhancement slot via muling Preventive Medicine even if you never use the power.

[ScarySai]

Boxing/kick buff cross punch if you decide to take it.

 

Spirit ward is slapping a bandage onto a guy who's getting mauled by a bear, at best.

[America's Angel]

The following powers are 80ft range on Brainstorm:

 

Pets.Blaster_AR_Snipe.Sniper_Rifle_Quick
Pets.Defender_AR_Snipe.Sniper_Rifle_Quick
Villain_Pets.Corruptor_AssaultRifle_Snipe.Sniper_Rifle_Quick

 

However, other assault rifle attacks have longer range:

Slug - 100ft

Burst - 90ft

 

I would suggest tweaking the AR snipes to 100ft base range for the sake of attack chains.

Edited March 25, 2021 by America's Angel

[arcane]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

Boxing/kick buff cross punch if you decide to take it.

 

Spirit ward is slapping a bandage onto a guy who's getting mauled by a bear, at best.

Every character I have has Preventive Medicine and either has to devote an enhancement slot to it or pick up Spirit Ward, Aid Other, etc. <2% of my characters have Cross Punch. Spirit Ward wins this one easily before even answering the question of whether or not you’ll even add it to your tray.

 

Also not worried about build diversity. The people that never vary from SS/SJ/fighting/leadership/fly were never going to pick up Sorcery in the first place. I don’t see this having a noticeable impact.

Edited March 25, 2021 by arcane

[ScarySai]

Well, if I have a heal power and the slots to spare, I'd sooner use the 6-set bonus for preventive on that.

 

If I'm doing rune and have no other alternatives, yeah - it's a good place to slap the preventive proc as a mule. Though since we're talking about value, weave and tough let me slot the defense uniques and LOTG.

 

It's not a useless power, but you're joking if you think it somehow makes Sorcery post-rune-nerf even a consideration for most people.

Edited March 25, 2021 by ScarySai

[arcane]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

 

 

It's not a useless power, but you're joking if you think it somehow makes Sorcery post-rune-nerf even a consideration for most people.

I’m not saying that- nor would I ever since I don’t think the nerf is a big deal.

 

What I am saying is that acting like prerequisite powers being lackluster is somehow a Sorcery problem is nonsense. It’s a Fighting/etc problem too and yet that deters nobody.

[ScarySai]

Fighting only requires one power to invest in to get to tough, then you get weave - the best + defense pool power toggle. Boxing/kick aren't a waste for crosspunch builds, either.

 

Hasten requires no investment and is by far the strongest pool in the game. 

 

Leadership has no dead powers.

 

Every flight power is valuable if you can fit them, plus you can slot LOTG.

 

Experimentation gets speed of sound, vial and adrenal.

 

Sorcery requires two prereqs - one of which doesn't even work properly, cannot slot LOTG and the payoff is a nerfed t5 power.

 

So, why exactly is it an unfair comparison?

Edited March 25, 2021 by ScarySai

[EnjoyTheJourney]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Every character I have has Preventive Medicine and either has to devote an enhancement slot to it or pick up Spirit Ward, Aid Other, etc. <2% of my characters have Cross Punch. Spirit Ward wins this one easily before even answering the question of whether or not you’ll even add it to your tray.

 

Also not worried about build diversity. The people that never vary from SS/SJ/fighting/leadership/fly were never going to pick up Sorcery in the first place. I don’t see this having a noticeable impact.

The highlighted sentence is an obviously correct statement, but only because the reasoning is circular. 

 

A simple hypothesis to set forth would be that people respond to nerfed powers by choosing them less in the future, with bigger nerfs generally leading to a bigger drop in usage. A corollary hypothesis could be that when powers are buffed they're likely to be chosen more often, with bigger buffs generally leading to a bigger uptick in usage. Are you suggesting these hypotheses do not accurately predict how people tend to react to buffs and nerfs to powers? If so, do you know of data that supports that claim?

 

Alternatively, do you have a good argument for why those likely to choose sorcery less in the future (or not at all) would as an alternative pick something other than the most popular pools? If so, then what would your reasoning be for suggesting that?  Better yet, do you know of data supporting that claim? 

Edited March 25, 2021 by EnjoyTheJourney

[StratoNexus]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:54 AM, GM Arcanum said:

Dual Pistols

•  Dual Pistols > Hail of Bullets (All Versions)

  • Cast time reduced from 4.17s to 2.47s

  • Adjusted Hail of Bullets animation

  • Fixed timing issues with VFX

• The text description for Dual Pistols powers have been updated for readability, if no issues are found with these descriptions, other powers will follow similar formatting

 

I like the new layout for the description, changing the text color was a nice add (although Incendiary could be a bit more orange or red). In the special ammunition section, I would prefer to see the Ammo type listed at the beginning of the sentence rather than the end.

Instead of:

*A minor damage over time effect if 'Incendiary Ammo' is loaded.

Make it:

*'Incendiary Ammo' adds a minor damage over time effect.

 

I really thought the Hail of Bullets animation time was going to be too short for my liking, but I was mostly OK with the overall look. After going back and forth between live and beta, I do significantly prefer the live version, however the beta version was not as bad as I had originally anticipated. Visually I would still prefer a longer animation; is it possible to go somewhere between 4.17 and 2.47? 3.17 or 3.33? Additionally, I find it somewhat odd that this very strong AoE power would animate faster than Fire Sword Circle, Combustion, Short Circuit, etc.