Are melee focused blasters facing an identity crisis, or is that just how you should play?

[nebber]

Identity crisis: n. a period of uncertainty and confusion in which a person's sense of identity becomes insecure, typically due to a change in their expected aims or role in society.

 

I don't feel any uncertainty or confusion in playing a blaster with a focus on melee powers.  I feel exhilaration.

[Carnifax]

17 hours ago, Six-Six said:

If it's any consolation, I also like playing Brutinators 😃

I've a DoT Blapper (Ice/Fire). And a pure ranged Hoverblaster (Water/Time/Ice). Both are fun in their own ways (actually the ranged one is slightly less fun just because she rarely finds herself in interesting times). 

 

I also have a Ice/Ice/Mako Scraptroller. And a Elec/Poison/Earth Meleetroller. I've had people on Live ask why my Defender was in melee too (Kin/Elec sapper). And my Fire/Claws tank definitely blurs the line between Tank, Brute and Scrapper.

 

My next char planned is an Ice/Traps/Earth/Fold Space controller who'll stand beside the meleers and yoink things into the moshpit. God knws what they should be called (other than Vengiebait maybe). 

 

People get too hung up on labels defining a role and the right way to play something. It rarely matters. 

[GhostDawg]

On 4/8/2021 at 10:14 PM, Six-Six said:

Here's a slightly different take from a noob: I like blapping because it gives me access to melee IOs and some really nice set bonuses. 

Good point.

[DarknessEternal]

On 4/8/2021 at 7:00 AM, Crysis said:

 

But I play my blasters for the unique play style that they enable.  Fast, agile, dash in for blipping, spin and throw a bolt of something over your shoulder as you kite around corner, drop a nuke/rain on the mobs that are dumb enough to follow, then BuildUp and snipe that one fool that is thinking he will get away.  There’s not much else I’ve found that even closely resembles this play style other than maybe Corruptors and Defenders built for DPS but even they don’t feel the same as a well tuned blaster.  And vs my scrappers, the ability to engage equally at range and melee adds a whole third dimension to game play.

That's all well and good.  Play what you like as long as we all agree doing all that stuff is still going to come at less dps and less survivability than a Scrapper.

[Nemu]

Sure as long as we all agree that people that gravitate towards melee ATs because of lol pylon tests are dumb AF and can't play anything more complex than training wheel ATs.

 

And battle maiden in Apex says hi.

 

Smiley face because I'm joking, not really, but seriously, I'm joking, or am I?

 

Wait I see what you are doing...

 

Yes blasters are weak. Buff Blasters!

Edited April 13, 2021 by Nemu

[Shred Monkey]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:53 PM, Ukase said:

As someone who plays blasters more often than not, I cringe whenever I read/hear the term "Blapper". Sure, it just implies the specified blaster plays more in melee, but that's a ridiculous distinction to make. 

Spines scrappers have Impale and a cone called...throw spines, if I recall correctly. Do they call themselves Scrasters? No. 

A blaster (any given player that makes one) can play their character any way they choose. Melee, ranged. Makes no difference as long as the opposing foes are defeated. They are still a blaster. If you play at range, you're a blaster. If you play in melee, you're still a blaster. There's no need to make the ludicrous distinction. Why would you? 

It's like introducing yourself as being left-handed instead of right-handed. 

 

I like term, myself, and use it frequently, if for no other reason but to indicate that I'm playing my blaster in a way that's going to make things die stupid fast.  Imagine getting behind the wheel of a car, cracking your knuckles and saying "buckle up, everyone.. we're in for a ride."  This means more than the words are actually saying.  "Blapper" isn't a word... it's an attitude.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Shred Monkey

[DarknessEternal]

6 hours ago, Nemu said:

Sure as long as we all agree that people that gravitate towards melee ATs because of lol pylon tests are dumb AF and can't play anything more complex than training wheel ATs.

 

Are you really of the opinion that there's anything complicated in this game?

[Nemu]

I'm of the opinion it takes more thought to play an AT without inherent mez protection or defenses. To make that work in melee takes more effort and skill than an AT that has those inherently. As I said before, softcap defenses isn't the end all be all solution to melee blaster survival, there's a lot of skill, awareness and knowledge of the game that goes into making that playstyle successful beyond just defenses. And I've seen plenty of melee blasters with softcap defenses faceplant because they play them like a scrapper and are not aware of mob faction dynamics/debuffs/damage patches/priority targets...

 

When everything can kill you, you become more aware and more knowledgeable of the enemies you face.

 

I know I have an unpopular opinion about this but I really feel that melee blasters should be a per-requisite AT to take to 50 before melee ATs unlock. If you can survive playing a melee blaster you can pretty much play any AT in this game with a great deal of proficiency save MMs and Khelds, but that's more due to the technical demands of having numerous keybinds and whatnot. In addition you gain an understanding of threats, game mechanics and AT weaknesses that allow you to contribute more to a team than just "derrrp I'm going to skip 5 mobs ahead and solo stuff because I want to flex how awesome my copied build is."

[Crysis]

15 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

That's all well and good.  Play what you like as long as we all agree doing all that stuff is still going to come at less dps and less survivability than a Scrapper.

 

It’s not like this game is particularly difficult for any AT to play, assuming you work the Notoriety scale and/or understand the baseline mechanics of the AT you are playing.

 

But I guess we look at the game a bit differently.  I view Scrappers (and to similar extent Brutes and Tanks) as the lower end of the difficulty slider.  Their playstyle is arguably the easiest in that you just wade in and start swinging.  There’s room for some tactics (eg; take out the debuffers first) but in general, there’s not much more to it than move and hit.  

 

Ironically, I don’t think Blasters (and to some extent Corrs and even Defenders) are all that different.  They just don’t have to wade into battle to do it.  Build for Ranged capped Defense, zip in and nuke, zip out and AOE/ST from range.  But that definitely is a -slightly- more difficult playstyle tactic than “wade in and start punching.”  

 

This game is not difficult, not even on the highest setting.  So the only thing to add any degree of difficulty to cater to the various players out there is the AT you use and how to maximize it’s own DPS.  

 

Can I agree Scrappers put out more DPS and survive longer?  Solo, against almost any +4/x8 PVE content, yes I can.  Can I take down an AV faster with a Beam/Traps Corruptor than many scrappers?  Yup, most certainly can.  How about with a Water/Plant Blaster?  Properly tuned for that activity, maybe. But I have all three of those and can choose to do the deed in very different ways and survive them all.   I have no desire to delete those three and just have one Scrapper that does everything because then I’m done with the game and walk away.

 

[Doomrider]

9 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

 

Are you really of the opinion that there's anything complicated in this game?

I think both things can be true. The game really isn't that complicated, likewise you will have more ST dps and survivability as a Scrapper in many scenarios like you said but what Nemu said, as cynical as it may sound, isn't really incorrect either.

Melee AT's have a much lower skill ceiling than many other AT's while still performing at the same level or better, so the title of "training wheel class" is kind of true as much as it might sound a bit disparaging. It's simply less effort to play and even less so once optimized with an IO build, having many scrappers tuning their attack chain down to just 3 attacks and maybe a couple aoes, being able to wholly neglect incoming enemy CC and in many cases not needing inspirations at all in order to survive, your damage mitigation becomes mostly passive.
That's not appealing to many people, especially those who want to create challenge in a game largely devoid of it. Playing a blapper is one of many ways to do that.

[Troo]

 

 

WAI

 

 

[Ukase]

15 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

I like term, myself, and use it frequently, if for no other reason but to indicate that I'm playing my blaster in a way that's going to make things die stupid fast.  Imagine getting behind the wheel of a car, cracking your knuckles and saying "buckle up, everyone.. we're in for a ride."  This means more than the words are actually saying.  "Blapper" isn't a word... it's an attitude.

That may be what it means to you - but that's not what it would mean to me. It means to me, and I imagine most other folks,  you're likely to play in melee range. There's no implication that things are going to die any faster - at least, not when I hear blapper. 

Now...an attitude...I suppose it could mean that, but I'd be hard pressed to differentiate that attitude from my own when I play my blaster. In melee when inferno's up and there are a cluster of mobs, but in range when there's just one or two. Just depends. They die every bit as fast no matter how you play, assuming you're slotted for that style. So, I don't necessarily buy the "make things die stupid fast". I expect that from any blaster, be they ranged, melee or what usually is a mix of both. 

For a fire/fire blaster, of course: FSC, inferno, burn, hotfeet. You should be in melee more often than not. But you're still a blaster. Other blaster powersets don't lend themselves so much being in melee. Doesn't mean things don't die stupid fast. 

So, while I kind of see what you're trying to say by saying Blapper, you say the same thing by saying blaster. And, since that is the name of the AT, makes sense to me to use it. 

[Ukase]

18 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

That's all well and good.  Play what you like as long as we all agree doing all that stuff is still going to come at less dps and less survivability than a Scrapper.

I seriously question the truth of your conclusion here. It is true in some circumstances. But I don't know about all circumstances, or even most circumstances. Maybe half the time. Less dps? Less survivability? The only advantage a scrapper has over a blaster is mez resistance. With the number of tactics to mitigate that, scrappers would be hard pressed to out-dps a finely tuned blaster. But, that brings up a second point...the point of being finely tuned. 

You may be a genius in slotting your scrappers and playing out optimal attack chains for maximum dps, while the blasters you may have seen or played weren't quite that well played or well made. It's just impossible to compare the two with numbers, because each person is going to play one AT better than the other, simpy due to experience, preference and who knows what other factors. 

[DarknessEternal]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

You may be a genius in slotting your scrappers and playing out optimal attack chains for maximum dps, while the blasters you may have seen or played weren't quite that well played or well made. It's just impossible to compare the two with numbers, because each person is going to play one AT better than the other, simpy due to experience, preference and who knows what other factors. 

We have the large sample size data.  Scrappers do more damage than Blasters.  This is an objective truth.

 

It should really be considered a huge failure of design that the AT that only does damage also doesn't universally do the most.

Edited April 14, 2021 by DarknessEternal

[Nemu]

Guys I agree with Darkness on this one.

 

It's truly an outrage that my flares can't 1 shot +4 minions. And my Charged Brawl can't 1 shot +4 LTs

 

Plz buff blasters!

[DreadShinobi]

23 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

That's all well and good.  Play what you like as long as we all agree doing all that stuff is still going to come at less dps and less survivability than a Scrapper.

 

3 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

We have the large sample size data.  Scrappers do more damage than Blasters.  This is an objective truth.

 

It should really be considered a huge failure of design that the AT that only does damage also doesn't universally do the most.

Scrappers may have more balance and consistency between powersets and performance, however for blasters at top end performance, and especially when it comes to fire blasting, well, lets just say you gave me a good laugh this morning. 

 

Also buff blasters. Clearly underperforming.

[Hew]

Hm, maybe we could say, scrappers that die less than blasters do more damage by principle of not being dead as much.

 

Sorry, thats all I got. 😄

 

[GM Aurarius]

As a Blaster it's amusing when most everything could be rent asunder from a distance, before anyone even had the chance to enter melee range.

That said, the Archetypes, much like the players that enjoy them, each have something they are good at or are even better at than others.
Let's just keep in mind that not everyone is going to like the same thing we do, and that's okay, we just need to stay objective and constructive when it come to discussions.

[GhostDawg]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:51 PM, DreadShinobi said:

 

 

Blasters absolutely do not need to build for softcapped defenses to be effective, whether teaming or solo. Damage and death is not only damage mitigation by reducing the number of attacks an enemy can get off (sometimes to zero) but higher kill speed means more inspiration drops that can last you through multiple spawn encounters.

 

20% positional defense or 32.5% def are very valuable numbers to hit for blasters because it is 1-2 purple insps from softcapping, where you then have solid layered mitigation with a resist shield and the absorb or HoT or regen from the blaster sustain. I've found scorpion and ice armors to be very ineffective at true tank-magery because your one dimensional survivability is more likely to fail, fail more often, and fail more quickly.

 

You need 0% def to aim/bu/nuke. Timing your nuke cooldown to delete a spawn when your insps are not active extends what you can do with your insp load, and will likely drop you a few more.

 

Rune of Protection is also super valuable for blasters, and will continue to be even after an (excessive) nerf to its performance. It functions as an extra ~4 insps, and can be rotated with your nuke. Nuking when your RoP is down reduces the effective downtime of RoP, because it isn't needed at the time. When both nuke and RoP are down pop 2 purples and continue going to town. 

 

I have a fire/ta blaster that i built as "pure ranged" and honestly it constantly feels lacking in output and fluidity of combat. Being able to just spam blaze/blazing bolt from your primary and fill in the gaps with hard hitting melee attacks makes the fire/ta feel pretty weak in comparison to fire/fire fire/em fire/elec etc that have full rotations of all high dpa attacks. Getting OSA was pretty great though. Being that my other blasters dont suffer a survivability issue by playing in melee, it isnt a trade off that i would ever consider again.

 

Also "blasters exemping poorly" is probably the most hyperbolic of your statements. Blasters fly through low level content like nobody's business.

 

And scrappers cannot use ranged attacks like a blaster can use melee attacks. Scrappers outside specific primaries cannot build effective dps chains at range only. Scrappers cannot deliver aoe output like a blaster can, not even including their nuke.

I concur with much of what you say here. I have a Rad/Atomic blaster built with maybe 32% positional defense and quite a bit of S/L/E resistance. I run clarion for status protection and holds, stuns and immobiles to control the battlefield a bit. I pretty much live in Melee with her and just vaporize most spawns before they can get out of hand. Things were a bit hairy pre-clarion, but that's only because I had to re-toggle one power after hitting a break-free. Point being, you don't absolutely HAVE to cap defense to be effective. On the other hand I do have a Pistols/MA blaster that does have capped defenses. The things I can do with her are amazing. I rarely have to worry about getting mezzed, because they don't hit. On the rare occasion when they do I can use the built in break free power that Martial has and get back to slapping mobs around.

Edited April 16, 2021 by GhostDawg