Help me decide on a Brute for Incarnate/TF/Teaming stuff

[LEUGIM6]

Hi guys.

 

I want to start a Brute, that's useful at Incarnate content, and also TF and regular teams. Not interested in builds optimized for farming.

 

Obviously, I know that  most builds are good at Incarnate level, especially if IOed out.

But what's the top of the cream, so to speak? The best among the best?

I fear that unless it's a good build, it won't keep me playing it, and this time I want to play a Brute at lvl 50s.

 

Obviously, what I am expecting are your ideas for trully very very good builds for the iLevels and your milleage my vary, of course.

Meaning, nobody should get upset with other people's suggestions or ideas.

 

Thanks all

[Apparition]

Energy Melee/Radiation Armor.  You're welcome.

 

Okie, you want an expansion on that answer?

 

With Issue 26, Page 4, Brutes were made to be the single target tank specialists.  No power set does single target damage better than Energy Melee.  Radiation Armor is one of the top five armor sets, (Invulnerability, Shield Defense, Bio Armor, and Energy Aura being the others).  It's the best resistance armor set, and gives you great resistances for smashing, lethal, energy, and toxic damage types, (which are the vast majority of the game).  On top of that, it gives you +recharge to get your Energy Melee attacks going faster, and it includes a mini-nuke of its own in Ground Zero.

[hakurr]

this is really not an easy question to answer. first I have to ask what do you see in your character I mean what do you want from him what is your play style. are you planning to just be DPS or do you want to tank. do you want a little of it all. do you just run in like a berserker or do you look to see what is ahead. do you have unlimited funds or are you looking for a cheap build. just about anything with enough Influence can be OP. some things just get there easier than others. give us some more info and maybe we can point you in a direction that might peak your interest.

[LEUGIM6]

7 minutes ago, hakurr said:

this is really not an easy question to answer. first I have to ask what do you see in your character I mean what do you want from him what is your play style. are you planning to just be DPS or do you want to tank. do you want a little of it all. do you just run in like a berserker or do you look to see what is ahead. do you have unlimited funds or are you looking for a cheap build. just about anything with enough Influence can be OP. some things just get there easier than others. give us some more info and maybe we can point you in a direction that might peak your interest.

 

DPS, not tank ( I have my tank for that).

I don't have unlimited funds but I have patience to farm all the merits and influence needed. So that's not an obstacle.

 

 

[hakurr]

i would say to look at Rad or BIO for secondary both can be very durable and have self heals and damage bonus as far as primary you can pretty much make anything work yes some are harder hitting then others but even if it hits hard if you just don't like it you wont want to play the character very long you really need to enjoy the toon in order toi want to play it all the time. i at the moment am leveling up a Spines/Rad an i love it but that is me you might have spines.

[StriderIV]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

Energy Melee/Radiation Armor.  You're welcome.

 

Okie, you want an expansion on that answer?

 

With Issue 26, Page 4, Brutes were made to be the single target tank specialists.  No power set does single target damage better than Energy Melee.  Radiation Armor is one of the top five armor sets, (Invulnerability, Shield Defense, Bio Armor, and Energy Aura being the others).  It's the best resistance armor set, and gives you great resistances for smashing, lethal, energy, and toxic damage types, (which are the vast majority of the game).  On top of that, it gives you +recharge to get your Energy Melee attacks going faster, and it includes a mini-nuke of its own in Ground Zero.

Cool combo man! This makes a lot of sense. Might try one of my own sometime =P

 

Another pairing I like on a Brute is the classic CEBR: Claws/Electric Brute. It just seems to peak in all the right places and is an absolute blender.

[Snarky]

I have run SS/Invul, Dark/Invul, and Dark/Dark Brutes at 50 as mains on Homecoming in the area of 6months + each.  All are incredible.  

 

What do you like from your Brute?  A Damage Aura, Unkillable to most stuff?  Huge AoE?  Some direction is good.  No Brute is THE best.  Moist Brutes can be made into 'one of the best at X' and really good at Y/Z.  Some are the best at X, but usually there is a trade off.  Fire Armor Brutes put out the most damage.  Not the sturdiest in the land.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

I have run SS/Invul, Dark/Invul, and Dark/Dark Brutes at 50 as mains on Homecoming in the area of 6months + each.  All are incredible.  

 

What do you like from your Brute?  A Damage Aura, Unkillable to most stuff?  Huge AoE?  Some direction is good.  No Brute is THE best.  Moist Brutes can be made into 'one of the best at X' and really good at Y/Z.  Some are the best at X, but usually there is a trade off.  Fire Armor Brutes put out the most damage.  Not the sturdiest in the land.

Moist?  Must be a Fire/Ice broot 😜

[Hjarki]

Right now, I think Brutes aren't in all that great of a place. For most possible sets, Scrappers will generally deal more damage with similar defenses. Scrapper ATOs are also easier to build around since they both provide 10% recharge bonuses while only one of the Brute ATOs does.

 

So you'd really want to be looking for sets that either exploit the Brute's 90% resist cap or have special features not present for the Scrapper version of the set.

 

For example, Storm Kick (from Martial Arts) grants defense on a Brute but not on a Scrapper.

 

A combination like MA/Invulnerability would probably be best played on a Brute because you get the defense, you're not forced to waste a power on Thunder Kick and you can (probably) hard cap S/L at 90%.

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Right now, I think Brutes aren't in all that great of a place. For most possible sets, Scrappers will generally deal more damage with similar defenses.

not to be disagreeable.  But...I disagree lol.  (and since we are on the Brute Forums i obviously win 🙂 )  Seriously though, If you desire a Tankier build that does (usually below Scrapper damage but can easily??? (League mostly) to insane damage levels you are looking at a Brute.  This is my opinion.  

 

There are a LOT of variables in this.  If you are building in such a way that resist caps are not coming into play, then yes, Scrapper may be better right out the gate.  Unless you are building Regen (danged, that needs a nerf) in which case you MIGHT be building for a giant health vault and Brutes would be attractive.  Most of the arguments in favor of Brutes will revolve around Tankiness.  

 

On Live Brutes were doing more damage than Scrappers.  Then got nerfed.  then the nerf got tweaked.  They are not in a "bad" place now.  Out of the box Scrappers out damage Brutes.  But Brutes have a higher possible damage cap.  It does not come into play often.  When it does, oooof.  melt time.  Triple chocolate cookie cake served warm, with a glass of fresh cold milk on the side.

 

So, I agree Scrappers generally deal more damage, but with (usually) weaker defenses.  Shittier agro management.  I absolutely disagree with the statement Brutes aren't in all that great a place.  I have mained two Brutes and a Tank on HC for extended periods.  My current, Dark/Dark/Soul would run shittier by far as a Scrapper for slightly more damage, generally when I am not lacking in damage to begin with.  Maybe it takes me longer to kill on a run through +4/x8 ITF.  But a dead Scrapper has what DPS again?  What?  I'm waiting....

[Sgt. Terminus]

If you are talking about teaming/incarnate/TF, then to quote Mickey, "Speed's what  we need,  Greasy, fast speed!"  You need to be able to move fast and more importantly have good fast animating attacks.  The team will be giving you damage, end, health, defense etc buffs.   The one thing your team can't help with is the animation time of your powers.  This is based on my experience of doing any teaming and wanting to feel like I am contributing something.

 

This is where Rad Melee and Spines while great for farming, fall behind literally.    I have gone  back to my old main, SS/Elec ( Footstomp, +recharge +run Speed, damage aura).  Katana, Energy Melee, Savage feel great in teams to.  As mentioned Bio and Rad are also great secondaries.   Look up animation times in Mids or in game to see what looks good to you.  For epic pools I recommend Mu and Blaze with great fast animating attacks, especially Fire Ball and Ball of Lightning.

 

Brutes are great in teams since that is where we can hit our damage cap and really cause some havoc.   Just some ideas, try some out and play what you think is fun.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Sgt. Terminus

[StriderIV]

35 minutes ago, Sgt. Terminus said:

If you are talking about teaming/incarnate/TF, then to quote Mickey, "Speed's what  we need,  Greasy, fast speed!"  You need to be able to move fast and more importantly have good fast animating attacks.  The team will be giving you damage, end, health, defense etc buffs.   The one thing your team can't help with is the animation time of your powers.  This is based on my experience of doing any teaming and wanting to feel like I am contributing something.

 

This is where Rad Melee and Spines while great for farming, fall behind literally.    I have gone  back to my old main, SS/Elec ( Footstomp, +recharge +run Speed, damage aura).  Katana, Energy Melee, Savage feel great in teams to.  As mentioned Bio and Rad are also great secondaries.   Look up animation times in Mids or in game to see what looks good to you.  For epic pools I recommend Mu and Blaze with great fast animating attacks, especially Fire Ball and Ball of Lightning.

 

Brutes are great in teams since that is where we can hit our damage cap and really cause some havoc.   Just some ideas, try some out and play what you think is fun.

Savage/Bio and Kat/Rad were both combos I was looking at on a Brute myself. Have any experience with either of those combos?

 

Also, I’m always kind of confused as to what the “exhausted” mechanic is in Savage Melee... what debuff does that apply to you?

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, StriderIV said:

Savage/Bio and Kat/Rad were both combos I was looking at on a Brute myself. Have any experience with either of those combos?

 

Also, I’m always kind of confused as to what the “exhausted” mechanic is in Savage Melee... what debuff does that apply to you?

 

It just stops you from building the Savage Melee Blood Frenzy for its duration.  

[StriderIV]

6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

It just stops you from building the Savage Melee Blood Frenzy for its duration.  

Perfect, glad it’s a simple answer 😂 thanks Haijinx. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by StriderIV

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

So, I agree Scrappers generally deal more damage, but with (usually) weaker defenses.

Armor sets are the same for Scrappers and Brutes (75% of Tanker values), so the only time Brutes have better defenses is when you're exceeding the Scrapper resist cap. Brutes do have slightly more base health, but it's a marginal advantage compared to the massive gulf between Tankers and Brutes.

[Erratic1]

33 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Savage/Bio and Kat/Rad were both combos I was looking at on a Brute myself. Have any experience with either of those combos?

 

Also, I’m always kind of confused as to what the “exhausted” mechanic is in Savage Melee... what debuff does that apply to you?

 

Savage/(Rad, SR, Elec, or EA) would allow you double dipping on self +Recharge buffs. 

 

Not that I am in any way suggesting Savage/Bio is not good. Probably quite wonderful.

[Snarky]

54 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Armor sets are the same for Scrappers and Brutes (75% of Tanker values), so the only time Brutes have better defenses is when you're exceeding the Scrapper resist cap. Brutes do have slightly more base health, but it's a marginal advantage compared to the massive gulf between Tankers and Brutes.

Okay, So I am assuming you are using SO builds.  Because everything you said, while true, ignores modern builds in the game using I/Os.

[Hjarki]

31 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Okay, So I am assuming you are using SO builds.  Because everything you said, while true, ignores modern builds in the game using I/Os.

IO sets work the same for whomever equips them, regardless of archetype. The armor sets have the same modifiers attached to them.

 

The main differences:

• Scrappers have two ATOs with recharge while Brutes only have one. In most builds, this translates to Brutes only using one of their ATO sets and more complicated/difficult builds. The second Brute ATO does allow them a slightly better amount of E/N Resist than you could obtain on a similar Scrapper build.
• Scrappers have access to Sting of the Manticore, which Brutes do not.
• Scrappers are less likely to need to mule powers due to the combination of dual recharge bonuses in ATOs and Shadow Meld in Patron pools.
• Scrappers have a 75% cap on resist rather than a 90% cap on resist. However, this doesn't normally come into play without external buffs since so few power sets can push resists in general above the Scrapper cap. Fiery Aura is certainly better on a Brute if you're in a Fire Farm, but having hard-capped 90% Fire Resist while having 68% on S/L/E and other meaningful resists is no better on a Brute than a Scrapper.
• Brutes have about 12% more base health.

However, none of these are particularly major differences - certainly not remotely in the same league as the Tanker's 33% better armor sets or 25% more base health (than Brutes). As a result, Scrappers and Brutes tend to be defensively equivalent unless you're talking about a specific power set that has unusual features that benefit one AT over the other (or only exists for one).

 

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

IO sets work the same for whomever equips them, regardless of archetype. The armor sets have the same modifiers attached to them.

 

The main differences:

• Scrappers have two ATOs with recharge while Brutes only have one. In most builds, this translates to Brutes only using one of their ATO sets and more complicated/difficult builds. The second Brute ATO does allow them a slightly better amount of E/N Resist than you could obtain on a similar Scrapper build.
• Scrappers have access to Sting of the Manticore, which Brutes do not.
• Scrappers are less likely to need to mule powers due to the combination of dual recharge bonuses in ATOs and Shadow Meld in Patron pools.
• Scrappers have a 75% cap on resist rather than a 90% cap on resist. However, this doesn't normally come into play without external buffs since so few power sets can push resists in general above the Scrapper cap. Fiery Aura is certainly better on a Brute if you're in a Fire Farm, but having hard-capped 90% Fire Resist while having 68% on S/L/E and other meaningful resists is no better on a Brute than a Scrapper.
• Brutes have about 12% more base health.

However, none of these are particularly major differences - certainly not remotely in the same league as the Tanker's 33% better armor sets or 25% more base health (than Brutes). As a result, Scrappers and Brutes tend to be defensively equivalent unless you're talking about a specific power set that has unusual features that benefit one AT over the other (or only exists for one).

 

Again, it depends on powersets and how competently you build.  Sorry you are not getting over 75% resist.  you should look at that.  

[Saikochoro]

I would suggest using savage melee or war mace as the primary and either bio armor or energy aura as the secondary. 
 

Savage melee has good single target and great AoE damage (proc out savage leap). It is fast and provides some nice recharge bonus/end discount as you maintain stacks of blood lust. War mace is just a very strong performer all round. 
 

Bio armor is not the toughest set, but it has nice layered mitigation that when built to its strengths works really well. Just don’t try to softcap all types as that will neuter your damage potential. Speaking of damage potential, bio provides a nice boost to damage. 
 

Energy aura is easy to softcap typed defenses, has some decent resist potential, resolves any endurance’s woes as soon as you get energize, and provides + recharge to boot.

 

Overall I think you should go savage/bio and build to bios strengths. Then just laugh as you leap nuke spawns and finish of bosses with a very fast single target rotation. It’s very satisfying.
 

My second suggestion is war mace/energy aura. Strong and pretty is not just a meme, it is actually a monster of a combo. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Saikochoro

[StriderIV]

17 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

I would suggest using savage melee or war mace as the primary and either bio armor or energy aura as the secondary. 
 

Savage melee has good single target and great AoE damage (proc out savage leap). It is fast and provides some nice recharge bonus/end discount as you maintain stacks of blood lust. War mace is just a very strong performer all round. 
 

Bio armor is not the toughest set, but it has nice layered mitigation that when built to its strengths works really well. Just don’t try to softcap all types as that will neuter your damage potential. Speaks of damage potential, bio provides a nice boost to damage. 
 

Energy aura is easy to softcap typed defenses, has some decent resist potential, resolves any endurance’s woes as soon as you get energize, and provides + recharge to boot.

 

Overall I think you should go savage/bio and build to bios strengths. Then just laugh as you leap nuke spawns and finish of bosses with a very fast single target rotation. It’s very satisfying.
 

My second suggestion is war mace/energy aura.  Strong and pretty is not just a meme, it is actually a monster of a combo. 

Sai always coming through with the great advice! Darkir has also pointed out a cool synergy with Sav/Bio Brutes: they’re DOT monsters where the damage from Savage and toxic damage from Bio’s offensive stance ramps up with fury.

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Sai always coming through with the great advice! Darkir has also pointed out a cool synergy with Sav/Bio Brutes: they’re DOT monsters where the damage from Savage and toxic damage from Bio’s offensive stance ramps up with fury.

 

I have an SS/Bio, and yes, his DoT is quite nice, especially with Rage up.

[StriderIV]

6 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I have an SS/Bio, and yes, his DoT is quite nice, especially with Rage up.

Didn’t think about that with SS/Bi! I get it hits like a truck when Rage is up haha

[Erratic1]

15 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Sai always coming through with the great advice! Darkir has also pointed out a cool synergy with Sav/Bio Brutes: they’re DOT monsters where the damage from Savage and toxic damage from Bio’s offensive stance ramps up with fury.

 

Had to hunt around for this. The image quality is low because I compressed the poop out of the video to get it to fit the post size limitation but its from my SM/EA scrapper. Notice the Recharge bonus (fuzzy but you can make it out) as he fights. 

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/uploads/monthly_2020_12/KRBW.mp4.4128ce8a8cec3870f651144e27216d0c.mp4

 

No reason you couldn't do this on a Brute.

[StriderIV]

28 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Had to hunt around for this. The image quality is low because I compressed the poop out of the video to get it to fit the post size limitation but its from my SM/EA scrapper. Notice the Recharge bonus (fuzzy but you can make it out) as he fights. 

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/uploads/monthly_2020_12/KRBW.mp4.4128ce8a8cec3870f651144e27216d0c.mp4 3.81 MB · 14 downloads

 

No reason you couldn't do this on a Brute.

This is impressive. Even shows of that combo’s strength in the early levels.