A reason to not use Fiery Aura for a damage focused sent?

[kelika2]

Been getting into Sents recently.  thinking of Water/Fire to maximize single and aoe damage.

[oldskool]

I'm not a fan of Fiery Aura on Sentinels.  The mitigation is low, the damage pay off isn't worth it, and Consume isn't as strong as other end powers.  

That said, if this is something *you* think would be fun, then go for it.  There are some folks that have posted about Fiery Aura and actually enjoy it.  They may also like getting punched in their crotch, but we don't kink shame here.  

With Fire, if you're using Burn and Whirlpool get ready to be in melee a lot.  Then watch as enemies run from it (even if slowly).  By 35 you may want to give consideration to an AoE Immobilize to stop that annoyance.  Unlike Brutes/Tankers, Sentinels don't have aggro magnet abilities to keep enemies in the ground patches.  

[Underfyre]

On my Fire builds I skip Temperature Protection, Consume, Burn and RotP. It leaves lots of room for pool powers. My build has ~25% defense to primary types, and ~45% resists. As long as you're not getting pummeled to hell, the heal is up often enough to patch you up.

 

If you're concerned with "maximizing" damage go with Bio. It doesn't sacrifice as much defense for it's damage bonus.

[kelika2]

4 hours ago, underfyre said:

On my Fire builds I skip Temperature Protection

Whoa.  On my final respecs for Fiery Aura alts I take Temp Protection at level 49 and slot it just enough to hold IOs.

 

18 hours ago, oldskool said:

get ready to be in melee a lot.

This might be the deal breaker for /fire.  Water is a pretty inward focused set with Tidal Power.  I thought that Molten Embrace would bump everything up

 

Welp, Water/regen it is

[CaptTastic]

I agree with @oldskool. Fiery Aura is a little underwhelming on Sentinels if you are looking for a great playing experience as opposed to something conceptual. Burn and Consume entice you into the melee but the set doesn't really offer you the mitigation to allow you to do so with any real comfort. 

 

My experience of Fiery Aura on a Sentinel was that if you're in a team with a good tank and pick your moment to jump in and out of melee, it's a nice set. I was disappointed with it from a self-sustaining point of view though, because for me that is the key attraction of a Sentinel - and ultimately, if you are reliant on something to hold your aggro for you, would you not rather just play a blaster?

 

I have fire/fire/fire versions in both Sentinel and Blasters, and there isn't a huge amount of difference in terms of survivability, Yes, the Sentinel has a bit better resists and the self-heal, but the blaster kills stuff much quicker so you have to face far fewer attacks. 

[MTeague]

The Endurance Drain protection on Consume is terribly nice.  Verrrry handy against Malta and the like, esp if you have enough recharge.

Healing Flames also comes with a +15% toxic resist that STACKS, and it's up pretty often. I've gotten 45% toxic resist constant from just that alone when on a Hydra-filled-map, and Cauterizing Aura is a nice reliable topper-offer.

 

All in all, I quite like Fiery Aura for Sents. 

Doesn't have Psi resist, but not hard to patch that with IO's. 

 

What it does not have.... At all... and you simply have to live with.... is absolutely zero Defense Debuff Resistance.

You can stack +Defense bonuses all day long take manuevers and weave, etc. But Cascade Failure *Will* be a threat you have to live with. 

 

I chose to stack mostly +Resist bonuses and take some +Def where i could fit it in.  For walking around defense, I only have like 20% melee / ranged / AE. Not everyone is going to be comfortable with that. But it puts within striking distance of softcap with some Luck's, and for sure easy if I'm with a Bubbler or Cold, or if enough people on the team are running Manuevers. (Fortitude is always nice to, but I tend to assume someone else will get the Fort's)

[Underfyre]

18 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Cauterizing Aura is a nice reliable topper-offer.

 

I like to slot it with Numina's. It negates the end cost, essentially making it free.

[oedipus_tex]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:57 PM, MTeague said:

The Endurance Drain protection on Consume is terribly nice.  Verrrry handy against Malta and the like, esp if you have enough recharge.

 

 

Thissssss.

 

Consume is a great power on any archetype that can take it.

[Sovera]

I wanted to play something else than a Tanker and decided on a Fire/Fire Sentinel myself. I always battled against the mediocre damage of Sentinels but after months and months of Fire Tankers I have a healthy respect for the damage Burn brings and decided to give it a try with a Sentinel. I mean, harm it surely won't do.

 

Only done both Posis but it's been fun actually. Been so very long I've just hovered our of the way and do pew pews. The end build will have 45% to S/L (with Barrier) and around 60% to S/L and 58% to E/N (with Barrier). 128 seconds Hasten is decent.

 

I do reckon it is 100% not a solo build though. Rain of Fire will make enemies run, Burn will make enemies run. Surviving should be easy as always on a Sentinel. Just hover up in the air and do pew pews. Then follow the Tank and drop Burn and Inferno.

[Marshal_General]

Anyone ever thought of taking Provoke to talk them into staying for the burn?

[Nightmare Shaman]

The resists you can achieve from FA are much more resilient than you would think at first glance.  This is a build I'm considering for my almost lvl 50 AR/FA sentinel.  

 

Keep in mind, this includes a 20 second recharge 1/2 health heal, a constant heal over time, along with damage scaling at the upper end of the range.  You will likely not be able to take an alpha strike.  You can't tank.  But, you can easily run right up to a group and blast at point blank range if you desire without having nearly the concerns of a blaster or any squishy TA.  And, since you are ranged, you can get out of harm's way much easily if the team is heading towards a wipe.

 

A really big issue I take with most quasi builds you find people posting is that most, if not all, ignore practical concerns at the expense of one very specific goal  (Usually the over-emphasized soft-capped defense.)  They almost always ignore endurance management and sustain.  If you look at the end drain portion of the chart above, that end drain is very manageable.  

I tend to lean more towards survivability than damage but I'm trying to overlook it with this build.  The only concerning hole is psi.  But, it's still manageable.  

I want to point out also that molten embrace increases damage by 10% but also includes a chance to add a fire dot to all your attacks.  10% is maybe irrelevant on a low damage scale AT, but with high damage that is pretty significant.  Especially on large numbers of AOE's or your high damage single target attacks.  Add musculature to that (33% boost) from incarnates and you'll be hitting like a truck with mez protection and the resists listed above.  Sentinels are way more effective then the running dialogue about them would have you believe.  Good luck.

 

[DarknessEternal]

Bio probably does more damage.  That's a reason.

[Underfyre]

1 hour ago, DarknessEternal said:

Bio probably does more damage.  That's a reason.

 

Yeah, but then Blasters do more damage. Where does the madness stop?

[DarknessEternal]

This guy's question was specifically about damage focused Sentinels.  And if he wants the most damaging secondary, it's Bio.

[Underfyre]

45 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

This guy's question was specifically about damage focused Sentinels.  And if he wants the most damaging secondary, it's Bio.

Well you're not wrong.

[Nightmare Shaman]

2 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

This guy's question was specifically about damage focused Sentinels.  And if he wants the most damaging secondary, it's Bio.

Oh wow, you get 25% strength to damage while in offensive mode as bio.  FA has only 10%.  I guess it just boils down to whether you think the burn patch is worth it.  I had no idea bio had such a high boost to damage.  Back to the drawing board.  

[Hjarki]

5 minutes ago, Nightmare Shaman said:

Oh wow, you get 25% strength to damage while in offensive mode as bio.  FA has only 10%.  I guess it just boils down to whether you think the burn patch is worth it.  I had no idea bio had such a high boost to damage.  Back to the drawing board.  

Fire also grants a fire damage proc to all of your attacks. Taken together, Molten Embrace will provide more overall damage than Bio Armor will.

[Underfyre]

26 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Fire also grants a fire damage proc to all of your attacks. Taken together, Molten Embrace will provide more overall damage than Bio Armor will.

Well yes, but actually no. On top of the 25% boost, Bio also adds a toxic damage proc to all of your attacks. The exact same proc as the melee ATs get. The only part that got watered down for Sentinels is the damage boost of 25%. Scrappers get 31.25%, everyone else gets 25%.

 

Anyway, the damage mod of the 2 procs are 2.64 * 195.2% (3 ticks at 80% chance a piece, cancel on miss), and 13.24. They otherwise share the same formula.

 

So Bio is still going to win out.

Edited May 21, 2021 by underfyre

[Nightmare Shaman]

47 minutes ago, underfyre said:

Well yes, but actually no. On top of the 25% boost, Bio also adds a toxic damage proc to all of your attacks. The exact same proc as the melee ATs get. The only part that got watered down for Sentinels is the damage boost of 25%. Scrappers get 31.25%, everyone else gets 25%.

 

Anyway, the damage mod of the 2 procs are 2.64 * 195.2% (3 ticks at 80% chance a piece, cancel on miss), and 13.24. They otherwise share the same formula.

 

So Bio is still going to win out.

 

The one caveat is that fire is much less resisted than toxic by enemies.  Aside from the 15% difference between FA and bio (10% molten embrace versus 25% offensive bio), fire procs are superior to toxic.  Information on enemy resistance source: 

 

[Underfyre]

13 minutes ago, Nightmare Shaman said:

 

The one caveat is that fire is much less resisted than toxic by enemies.  Aside from the 15% difference between FA and bio (10% molten embrace versus 25% offensive bio), fire procs are superior to toxic.  Information on enemy resistance source: 

 

 

Not superior enough to offset a 500% difference in damage. 256.5% if you include the 3 ticks. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by underfyre

[Nightmare Shaman]

27 minutes ago, underfyre said:

 

Not superior enough to offset a 500% difference in damage. 256.5% if you include the 3 ticks. 

Oh I know.  But, it's there.  As well as burn.  Just something to consider if the OP wants all the options.

[DarknessEternal]

How are you keeping things in Burn as a Sentinel?

[Nightmare Shaman]

1 hour ago, DarknessEternal said:

How are you keeping things in Burn as a Sentinel?

Netherworld Tentacles, Chain fences, Fire cages, Frostbite, School of sharks, Web Envelope, Electrifying fences, Tashibishi (caltrops), Soul Tentacles.  (Someone mentioned getting taunt, but I've never tried this.  I think it's a waste.)

This is assuming you are solo.  If you're on a team, there are endless situations to use it.  (Stand right next to the tank, for one.  Also, tank pulls entire room to doorway, drop right there.  They will continue moving into the fire towards the tank if he taunts.)  I found it to be more of a fun, occasional thing to use when I'm in close to mobs rather than some optimal damage power.  It's also interesting to use when mobs are ganging up on you.  They run into the fire towards you then either burn to death while you're shooting them or attempt to run away.   I play on +8/+4 teams and push solo missions as high as I can.  There are plenty of opportunities to pull mobs into the fire.  

Regardless of how you use it, it's still a part of FA's toolkit.  Since the OP asked specifically about damage, it's relevant to the question.

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

How are you keeping things in Burn as a Sentinel?

 

I don't worry about keeping them there. It's got a good front-loaded damage, and if you slot it up with proc's, you get some very nice initial BOOM, kind of like a mini-Inferno.  Half-decent global recharge will make sure it's up fairly frequently, but should still have an excellent proc chance.

[XaoGarrent]

/Fire is just kinda bad on Sents. They took away the buildup and gave it a mediocre toggle instead. Most of what makes it king of damage on melee ATs either is gone, or doesn't really apply well to Sentinels.

 

Go /Bio or /Rad instead. Both are tougher and have a damage buff. /Rad has an extra AoE, too. /Rad is basically a better in every way /Fire on Sents... It should be noted that it has the same cascading defense failure issue, though. But you'll be doing more damage, so maybe that's not as much a problem.

 

Fire is probably a better primary if you want both AoE and single target. Water is an amazing set, but it's a little slow on the single target front. It's sorta the Spines of Blast primaries, except it actually has decent secondary effects.

Edited May 24, 2021 by XaoGarrent