Questions and Suggestions for a Rad/Sonic

[Rylas]

Usually I run brutes or tanks with my friends. I really enjoy jumping into mobs and soaking up the aggro and damage as I dish it out. I want my teammates to have some of that feeling, so after some deliberation, I landed on making a Rad/Sonic. The debuff potential for -RES and -DEF looks downright devastating. I'm hoping my team mates will feel like they're just shredding foes easily.

 

I'm currently leveling up my toon a couple of questions:

 

• What powers do most people consider skippable? Does anyone end up making a lot of use out of Mutation in the later levels? What about Fallout? They both look pretty great on paper, I'm just worried that if I'm doing my job, I'll hardly get a chance to use them. I'm planning on skipping Shockwave, SIren's Song and possibly Screech unless some good arguments for taking them can be made. I just don't care for KB or Sleep effects and minor damage powers aren't that appealing.

• If I'm able to debuff ToHit at -45% would that have the same result as my team being soft capped on defense?

• What Alpha and Interface abilities have the best synergy for this kind of combo? I was looking through them, and after the amount of debuff I'll be doling out, additional -DEF/-RES procs and/or enhancement doesn't seem needed. Has anyone found a good complimentary set up with these?

 

I'm thinking of taking Sorcery and Dark Mastery for the RES and Status toggles and focusing on RES bonuses and some recharge with IO bonuses. I'm not looking to spend too much on the build since it looks like it should perform amazingly well at it's job without IOs. Still, I'm open to hearing any issues anyone sees with going that route. For that matter, any kind of input is welcome.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

Screech isn't a minor damage power. It is a disorient. Using it on the annoying things, Tsoo Sorcerers, can be incredibly useful. I can see skipping on Shockwave, but as someone who has ODed on support, I take every sleep power I get. You can sleep a mob and vastly debuff in safety which means owning alpha strike. When additional mobs start coming in, you can sleep them and let your group take them on as they can. As a defender, your role for manging the situation is more than "I smash buttons, kill stuff, and taunt as needed."

 

I seem to recall taking Mutation on my Rad/sonic back when. Pretty sure I skipped Fallout. Death happens. I shouldn't be looking forward to it.

[Rylas]

Screech isn't a minor damage power. It is a disorient. Using it on the annoying things, Tsoo Sorcerers, can be incredibly useful.

 

Hmm. Ok, that's worth thinking about. As much as I loathe Sorcerers I can see a lot of value in that power. Disorient from outside their f'ing cloud insanity debuff and make all my melee friends happy.

 

I can see skipping on Shockwave, but as someone who has ODed on support, I take every sleep power I get. You can sleep a mob and vastly debuff in safety which means owning alpha strike. When additional mobs start coming in, you can sleep them and let your group take them on as they can. As a defender, your role for manging the situation is more than "I smash buttons, kill stuff, and taunt as needed."

 

Oh, I'm not looking to button smash. It's fine in a MSR raid for 30 minutes at a time, but that stuff puts me to sleep. I've been enjoying the debuff toggles and then jumping around to strategically maximize the cone attack for more debuff. It's been fun trying to be all the buff/debuff god I can be as well as handing out the most damage I can. It's an actively involved combo.

 

That said; I see how sleep could help, but that requires more discipline from my friends and PUB groups that I've seen. If Siren Song was a hold or immobilize it would be one I could use like that.

 

I seem to recall taking Mutation on my Rad/sonic back when. Pretty sure I skipped Fallout. Death happens. I shouldn't be looking forward to it.

 

So would you say you got to use Mutation frequently enough to be happy you took it? Funny enough, if I took it, I could see it being paired well by Fallout. Blow things up, and rez your team mate even better than they were before to kill the next mob. Did you just one slot recharge in Mutation and call it a day?

 

Thanks for the really good input. And so quickly. You've given me some things to mull over.

[Without_Pause]

One slotted it. I wasn't expected that much death. I think for Fallout it was baddies being near the body to where it would hit them was also a factor. Some people on the forums loved the power, so I don't think it is a absolute don't take type of power.

[Rylas]

Following up.

 

I've reworked my build to include Screech. I'm also going to give Fallout a little test run since I've picked up Recall to put bodies where I need. I play with friends often enough I'm sure they enjoy being fodder.

 

Does anyone have any handy keybinds they use with Fallout? I find it unlikely there's a "target nearest dead ally" command.

[Rylas]

I'm having a lot of fun with the Rad/Sonic so far. She's approaching 40 and after some experimenting I've found the direction I think she needs to go in. Dropped Sorcery as it wasn't providing what I was hoping for. Grabbed the fighting pool and decided to aim for a little positional defense. The top three priorities in order are perma-AM, solid enhancement values, and positional defense. I'm keeping it lower cost (the ATOs I have rewards for). As additional bonus, the build ends up having near perma-Soul Drain.

 

If anyone sees any tweaks for more defense without hurting enhancement values (or being overly expensive), I'm all ears.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Rad Radio: Level 50 Technology Defender

Primary Power Set: Radiation Emission

Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack

Power Pool: Speed

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Leadership

Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

 

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Radiant Aura

• (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
  
• (3) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
  
• (3) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (7) Doctored Wounds - Heal
  
• (7) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
  

Level 1: Shriek

• (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (15) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
  
• (17) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
  
• (17) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (19) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  

Level 2: Scream

• (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (29) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (31) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
  
• (43) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (43) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  
• (43) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
  

Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism

• (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
  
• (5) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (5) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge
  
• (31) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
  

Level 6: Howl

• (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (19) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (23) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
  
• (25) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
  
• (25) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  

Level 8: Radiation Infection

• (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
  
• (9) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
  
• (9) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
  
• (11) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
  
• (11) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Endurance
  
• (15) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
  

Level 10: Mutation

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 12: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  
• (13) Recharge Reduction IO
  
• (13) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 14: Super Jump

• (A) Jumping IO
  

Level 16: Shout

• (A) Vigilant Assault - Damage/RechargeTime
  
• (33) Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (33) Vigilant Assault - RechargeTime/PBAoE +Absorb
  
• (34) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (37) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 18: Enervating Field

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 20: Choking Cloud

• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (21) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
  
• (21) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
  
• (23) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
  

Level 22: Boxing

• (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
  
• (40) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (40) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (46) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  

Level 24: Lingering Radiation

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  
• (37) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 26: Tough

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  
• (27) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
  
• (27) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
  

Level 28: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  
• (29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 30: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  
• (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 32: EM Pulse

• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (33) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
  
• (34) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
  
• (34) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
  

Level 35: Screech

• (A) Razzle Dazzle - Chance of Immobilize
  
• (36) Razzle Dazzle - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (36) Razzle Dazzle - Accuracy/Endurance
  
• (36) Razzle Dazzle - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
  
• (37) Razzle Dazzle - Endurance/Stun
  
• (46) Razzle Dazzle - Stun/Range
  

Level 38: Dreadful Wail

• (A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
  
• (39) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• (39) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
  
• (39) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  
• (40) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
  

Level 41: Dark Consumption

• (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (42) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (42) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (42) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge
  

Level 44: Oppressive Gloom

• (A) Razzle Dazzle - Accuracy/Recharge
  
• (45) Razzle Dazzle - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
  
• (45) Razzle Dazzle - Chance of Immobilize
  
• (45) Razzle Dazzle - Stun/Range
  
• (46) Razzle Dazzle - Endurance/Stun
  
• (50) Razzle Dazzle - Accuracy/Endurance
  

Level 47: Soul Drain

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
  
• (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
  
• (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
  
• (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
  
• (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
  
• (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
  

Level 49: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  

Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Vigilance

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty
  

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Empty
  

------------

 

 

 

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[CaptTastic]

I’d take Shockwave and slot a KB to KD enhancement in it. You’re a defender and mobs aren’t going to be attacking your team when they’re going between falling on their asses and getting up again. 

[Rylas]

I’d take Shockwave and slot a KB to KD enhancement in it. You’re a defender and mobs aren’t going to be attacking your team when they’re going between falling on their asses and getting up again.

 

I thought about taking Shockwave, but there's just not room for it with the other powers I need to make use of. On the bright side, the debuffs are so strong, I haven't worried about needing more mitigation help.

[Rumors]

I played a Rad/Sonic long ago on Live, up until Alphas were added.  I have one now as well, but it's only level 32.  There's a number ways to build it depending on how you want to go, ranging from AV/GM soloing, pseudo-controller, Offender, pure support, PvP player killer, "healer", and more.  I haven't say down with it in Mids and don't have my old build, so can't comment on your slotting.

 

 

For Rad, I take everything except Choking Cloud.  It can definitely have utility, but you kinda have to build around it to get the most out of it. 

 

-Fallout is pretty amazing.  People will drop for various reasons no matter how hard you try to save them.  There's just nothing you can do if the Blaster backpedals into an unaggroed group and gets instagibbed, for example.  With your damage buffs, you can pretty much end a fight with Fallout.  You just need teammates who are patient enough to wait a moment in the dirt for you to move them and boom them.

 

-For your debuff toggles, if you're steamrolling, best to either use RI to pull more mobs (you can move during half the cast!) or only use EF.  If you're moving that fast though, your team probably needs to up the difficulty.  On RI, 45% will be effective softcap provided enemies don't resist the debuff, which they can do by simply outleveling you or being an AV.  I recommend going higher than that if you can do so.  I think I was around 60%ish?

 

 

For Sonic attack, I took Shriek, Scream, Shout, Amplify, Howl, and Dreadful Wail.

 

-My ST attack chain was Shriek, Scream, Shriek Shout to maximize the resistance debuffs

 

-Howl I only used for resistance debuffing and didn't have much slotting if memory serves right.

 

-KB to KD didn't exist at the time, so Shockwave was a little useless to me since it's hard to use without scattering your anchors.  Especially now when your anchor might be dead.

 

-Siren's Song is good for soloing, but your debuffs are safe enough usually if you keep everyone near you, as unintuitive as that is for a Defender.  Sleep doesn't play well with teams unless everyone is purely single target focused.

 

-Screech has the biggest resistance debuff on the set, but I didn't have room for it.

 

-Amplify > Soul Drain > Dreadful Wail =  :D:D:D:D:D:D

 

 

I went Dark Mastery, like you did.  Even using EM Pulse and old Dreadful Wail, endurance wasn't enough issue for me for Dark Consumption.  I went Oppressive Gloom, Dark Embrace, Soul Drain, and Soul Transfer.  The latter is good for when the fecal matter aggressively locates your fan. In a team wipe, you can Soul Transfer > Mutation > Vengeance > Fallout and, if the fight isn't over, you and your super buffed ally will easily defeat your debuffed and weakened foes.

 

...plus it's good when an AV decides he's bored of the tank and randomly one-shots you from full despite all the debuffs and defensive toggles.

 

 

For power pools, I think I went Speed, Leadership, and Teleportation.  Hasten and Recall are obvious, but Vengeance is a usually skipped power that has awesome synergy with Fallout.  Use it first, plus Amplify and Soul Drain, and Fallout will make your Blaster wet their pants.  Besides, if you're gonna use your dead friends, might as well get full use of them.

 

Plus you can bring like... level 2 players to your level 54 mission, let them die, and power level them by using them as Fallout/Vengeance bait the whole mission (and they'll probably be more useful that way too.)  I've had people tell me that doing that was the most fun they've had playing the game and actually complained about the level-up rez.

 

 

For Incarnates, I've not touched this much for Rad/Sonic since my 50 was during Alpha days of Live.  I remember Spiritual Radial being the best pick since you used just about everything there and the recharge was awesome for your long clicks.  But, there's more Alphas since then so... could be wrong.

 

 

If you want PvP build advice, I can try to offer that too since I had a PvP build as well.  But mind, it'd be all pre-Incarnate advice.

[Rylas]

For power pools, I think I went Speed, Leadership, and Teleportation.  Hasten and Recall are obvious, but Vengeance is a usually skipped power that has awesome synergy with Fallout.  Use it first, plus Amplify and Soul Drain, and Fallout will make your...

 

Use Vengeance first, plus Amplify and Soul Drain, and Fallout...

 

Use Vengeance first, plus Amplify and Soul Drain, and Fallout

 

Yeah, ok. You've convinced me. Gonna have to make that a second build for tough team content. If you happen to have one laying around that's for SOs (spending my current CoH savings on the posted build), I'd be happy to see it. Would make for two fun play styles.

[Rumors]

Unfortunately, the only build I have right now is my very WIP moderate-cost Rad/Sonic build.  (Like, not even all slots placed WIP).  I could try to copy it and put it together with SOs.

[Rylas]

Unfortunately, the only build I have right now is my very WIP moderate-cost Rad/Sonic build.  (Like, not even all slots placed WIP).  I could try to copy it and put it together with SOs.

 

No worries. If you can toss one out there, that would be pretty generous. If not, well, you already gave me good advice. I think power selection would be he biggest insight over slotting. I only mentioned SOs because I'm not going to be putting IOs in the second build anytime soon.

[Rumors]

That can be done easily.  My plan is...

 

Rad:  Everything but Choking Cloud

 

Sonic:  Everything but Siren's, Screech, and Shockwave

 

Speed:  Hasten

 

Leadership:  Assault, Maneuvers, Vengeance.

 

Teleportation:  Recall Friend

 

Dark Mastery:  All except Dark Consumption

 

Incarnate:  Not really gotten much this far, but Spirit Core Paragon and Clarion are both under strong consideration.  Most likely not Reactive Interface since plenty of -Resist as is.

 

This leaves one power pick for a travel power of choice or other move you might want.  I don't think the build will lend itself to any defensive softcapping on IOs if you try these picks, like 'em, and decide to IO it out, but I usually rely on Rad Infection for that purpose.  You can, of course, also shuffle picks around, like replacing Soul Transfer with Dark Consumption, swapping a Leadership toggle for Tactics, dropping EM Pulse for something else.  I'm actually considering dropping Howl since I only use it for debuffing and I'm usually too busy to hop all over the place to keep it stacked.  But I've not decided what I'd take instead.

[Rylas]

That can be done easily.  My plan is...

 

Rad:  Everything but Choking Cloud

 

Sonic:  Everything but Siren's, Screech, and Shockwave

 

Speed:  Hasten

 

Leadership:  Assault, Maneuvers, Vengeance.

 

Teleportation:  Recall Friend

 

Dark Mastery:  All except Dark Consumption

 

Incarnate:  Not really gotten much this far, but Spirit Core Paragon and Clarion are both under strong consideration.  Most likely not Reactive Interface since plenty of -Resist as is.

 

This leaves one power pick for a travel power of choice or other move you might want.  I don't think the build will lend itself to any defensive softcapping on IOs if you try these picks, like 'em, and decide to IO it out, but I usually rely on Rad Infection for that purpose.  You can, of course, also shuffle picks around, like replacing Soul Transfer with Dark Consumption, swapping a Leadership toggle for Tactics, dropping EM Pulse for something else.  I'm actually considering dropping Howl since I only use it for debuffing and I'm usually too busy to hop all over the place to keep it stacked.  But I've not decided what I'd take instead.

 

Thanks! Yeah, I'm thinking Consumption over Soul Transfer as well. Maybe finagling a way to have both Oppressive Gloom and Choking Cloud. Seems like it would be a great build for tough content. Who knows, I may just IO it as well over time. I've been enjoying my current IO build (not yet complete) quite a bit. Even 25% defense to positional types has quite a bit of survival.

 

The fact that it could have two solidly fun builds is pretty cool.

[Bopper]

 

For Sonic attack, I took Shriek, Scream, Shout, Amplify, Howl, and Dreadful Wail.

 

-My ST attack chain was Shriek, Scream, Shriek Shout to maximize the resistance debuffs

 

 

Edit: My comment was wrong and has been removed. I defer to the original response by Rumors, it is good advice. I provide new (and hopefully correct info) below for those interested

 

Using the cast time numbers from Pines, I have calculated the chains for optimal Debuff Resistance per second (DRPS) and also effective Damage per second (eDPS, which combines DPS and DRPS). I evaluated the following chains and bracket their results [DRPS, eDPS, eDPS w/ EF] *Note, I calculated the effective DPS with and without Enervating Field :

• 
  1) Shriek - Scream [78.74%, 51.12, 59.70] (barely the optimal eDPS; but only if you can achieve near-capped recharge, i.e. ~400% recharge on Scream)
  2) Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Shout [75.76%, 50.12, 58.68] (the practical optimal eDPS)
  3) Screech - Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Shout [88.2%, 45.26, 52.47] (the practical optimal DRPS)
  4) Screech - Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Shout - Shriek [87.72%, 47.18, 54.72]
  5) Screech - Shriek - Scream - Shriek [86.36%, 94.15%, 97.64%] (optimal DRPS if you can achieve 312+% recharge on Screech).
  

 

For the 5th chain I just show the DRPS and I list its 300%, 350%, and 400% recharge performance. The eDPS for these recharges are 37.8, 42.9, and 45.3, respectively.

 

In summary, Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout is the optimal ST attack chain in terms of DPS. This is old news. The big take away from this is to show why one would want to take Screech as a power. In a team setting it will optimize your ST resistance debuff attack chain by a minimum of 12.4% points. That's effectively 12.4% more damage to your teammate's attacks. Also while in a team setting, you might have extreme recharge buffs from teammates which could push your optimal debuff chain into the 90-97% range, which further improves your teammate's damage output.

 

As for adding Screech for the purpose of solo play, only do it if you take Dreadful Wail. You can hit the Boss with Screech, then come in hot with Dreadful Wail to stun the minions and the boss. This is probably a stretch of a reason to add a single power for a solo build, however.

[Guffnat]

That's some great advice!

[DSorrow]

If you can achieve a recharge of over 200%, Shriek is the only ST attack you need. Shriek would recharge before your cast time is finished, and the DPS and RDPS (resistance debuff per second) would both be better than any attack chain (technically incorporating Screech could get you a better RDPS but it plummets your DPS).

 

Unless something has been changed / I misremember things / haven't properly paid attention to what's happening in-game, powers only start recharging after their animation is finished so it's impossible to have a gapless single attack chain. Also I'm not sure if Shriek's -Res stacks from the same caster (most debuffs don't stack that way), so in order to stack -Res you'd want the other blasts too. Shriek > Scream > Shout has a 100% uptime on each of the -Res effects and you can toss in Screech every 20 seconds to refresh that for constant -80%.

[Bopper]

If you can achieve a recharge of over 200%, Shriek is the only ST attack you need. Shriek would recharge before your cast time is finished, and the DPS and RDPS (resistance debuff per second) would both be better than any attack chain (technically incorporating Screech could get you a better RDPS but it plummets your DPS).

 

Unless something has been changed / I misremember things / haven't properly paid attention to what's happening in-game, powers only start recharging after their animation is finished so it's impossible to have a gapless single attack chain. Also I'm not sure if Shriek's -Res stacks from the same caster (most debuffs don't stack that way), so in order to stack -Res you'd want the other blasts too. Shriek > Scream > Shout has a 100% uptime on each of the -Res effects and you can toss in Screech every 20 seconds to refresh that for constant -80%.

 

My in game experience has shown the recharge starts immediately and I have been able to have a gap less attack chain with just Shriek. I'll double check next time I play, though.

 

I'm also under the impression that the debuff stacks, however I honestly have next checked. Unless it says effects don't stack from same caster, I assume it would.

[DSorrow]

My in game experience has shown the recharge starts immediately and I have been able to have a gap less attack chain with just Shriek. I'll double check next time I play, though.

 

I'm also under the impression that the debuff stacks, however I honestly have next checked. Unless it says effects don't stack from same caster, I assume it would.

 

Lag and really short recharge/activation powers make it pretty difficult to track during gameplay, but I guess way to empirically test it would be to find a sturdy target such as a Rikti Pylon, set the attack on autofire and check how many activations you can get within one minute or something similar. Then just divide 60 by the number of activations to get time per activation and see if that corresponds to recharge or recharge+animation.

 

As far as I know about effect stacking, a majority of buffs/debuffs don't stack from the same caster with the one consistent exception being pseudopets such as Sleet because then it's technically the pseudopet "casting" the power and several pseudopets count as different entities. This could also be checked during the same test for the recharging question: just note if your damage ramps up more than once, if not then the debuff only applies once.

[Bopper]

 

Lag and really short recharge/activation powers make it pretty difficult to track during gameplay, but I guess way to empirically test it would be to find a sturdy target such as a Rikti Pylon, set the attack on autofire and check how many activations you can get within one minute or something similar. Then just divide 60 by the number of activations to get time per activation and see if that corresponds to recharge or recharge+animation.

 

As far as I know about effect stacking, a majority of buffs/debuffs don't stack from the same caster with the one consistent exception being pseudopets such as Sleet because then it's technically the pseudopet "casting" the power and several pseudopets count as different entities. This could also be checked during the same test for the recharging question: just note if your damage ramps up more than once, if not then the debuff only applies once.

 

Great suggestion. If nobody does this before this weekend, I'll test it and report back.

[Rumors]

I looked into it myself.  Shriek's recharge begins around when the projectile leaves the character, not as soon as the debuff starts.  However, the debuff timer does start as soon as the power is executed, although, AFAIK, it does not boost the damage of the same cast (unlike Scream, which will self-boost the damage of the second tick and beyond on the same cast).  Shriek will self-stack, however.  With Hasten + AM alone at level 33 I was briefly able to triple stack (like, 1 second tops).  I checked the debuff stacking by using a Power Analyzer.

 

Either way, I don't think Shriek > Shriek > Shriek will work because you have to finish the casting animation before the recharge starts.  If memory serves right, back on Live, the highest DPS chain was Shriek > Scream > repeat, although this did require perma Hasten, perma-AM, and not exemplaying below your set bonuses.  Either Shriek > Scream > Shriek (to refresh the debuff) > Shout or Shriek > Scream > Shout are the next highest.  Don't recall which, I remember there being some issues with Scream causing Shriek's debuff to fall off before Shout, hence probably needing the second Shriek.

[Scientist]

Either way, I don't think Shriek > Shriek > Shriek will work because you have to finish the casting animation before the recharge starts.  If memory serves right, back on Live, the highest DPS chain was Shriek > Scream > repeat, although this did require perma Hasten, perma-AM, and not exemplaying below your set bonuses.  Either Shriek > Scream > Shriek (to refresh the debuff) > Shout or Shriek > Scream > Shout are the next highest.  Don't recall which, I remember there being some issues with Scream causing Shriek's debuff to fall off before Shout, hence probably needing the second Shriek.

 

Does it work to bring Howl into the rotation, since you are likely to have it anyway for AoE debuffing, or is the animation too high?  And is the highest dps chain the same as the max average -res debuffing one, given that your main goal as a defender may be debuffing that AV so the other 7 teammates beating on him will do more damage? 

[Rumors]

I'm not a super numbers person, but a quick glance at Pines for raw values shows that Howl does the same damage as Shriek but at twice the animation time, so it'd probably be a lower DPS for the Defender.  But the group debuff would overall increase team DPS if you can aim it right.

 

If your goal is maximum debuff values, (don't quote me on this part) I feel you'd probably want to cycle in Screech somewhere for its 12 second resistance debuff.  For reference, Shriek lasts 5 seconds, Scream lasts 7, Shout lasts 10, Howl lasts 8, and Dreadful lasts 20.  I'm not 100% sure what the optimum debuff attack chain is, that'd take a lot of number crunching with different power selections. 

 

Either way, basic chains without messing a lot with IOs and stuff should let you maintain ~40-60 debuff between your attacks, before debuff resistance applies.  (Which, ironically, comes from resistance.)

 

 

[Bopper]

I looked into it myself.  Shriek's recharge begins around when the projectile leaves the character, not as soon as the debuff starts.  However, the debuff timer does start as soon as the power is executed, although, AFAIK, it does not boost the damage of the same cast (unlike Scream, which will self-boost the damage of the second tick and beyond on the same cast).  Shriek will self-stack, however.  With Hasten + AM alone at level 33 I was briefly able to triple stack (like, 1 second tops).  I checked the debuff stacking by using a Power Analyzer.

 

Either way, I don't think Shriek > Shriek > Shriek will work because you have to finish the casting animation before the recharge starts.  If memory serves right, back on Live, the highest DPS chain was Shriek > Scream > repeat, although this did require perma Hasten, perma-AM, and not exemplaying below your set bonuses.  Either Shriek > Scream > Shriek (to refresh the debuff) > Shout or Shriek > Scream > Shout are the next highest.  Don't recall which, I remember there being some issues with Scream causing Shriek's debuff to fall off before Shout, hence probably needing the second Shriek.

 

Thank you for confirming this info for us. I may have had a crazy recharge boost when I thought the recharge was faster than the animation. I'll have to test the Shriek-Scream DPS this weekend and see for myself. There would have to be a gap as Scream's recharge can't reach the Shriek cast time.

[Hjarki]

If your goal is maximum debuff values, (don't quote me on this part) I feel you'd probably want to cycle in Screech somewhere for its 12 second resistance debuff.  For reference, Shriek lasts 5 seconds, Scream lasts 7, Shout lasts 10, Howl lasts 8, and Dreadful lasts 20.  I'm not 100% sure what the optimum debuff attack chain is, that'd take a lot of number crunching with different power selections.

 

One way to look at this is 'debuff time per activation':

 

Shriek: 4.2088

Scream: 3.7879

Shout: 3.4435

Screech: 8.6830

Howl: 3.1898

 

So if you could have a rotation that was nothing but Screech, you could stack 8.683 * -20% = -173.66 resist.

 

However, a Shriek/Scream/Shriek/Screech rotation would require +374% recharge (a trifle unrealistic). So your best bet is probably Shriek/Scream/Shriek/Shout/Screech which only requires +197% recharge. That second rotation would stack -97.32 resist.

 

In practice, you could probably skip Shout on the "I need time to do something else" basis. You're probably going to be firing off heals (or whatever), so you can simply occupy your time that way. Even if this were not the case, you could simply use Howl. It's not much of a downgrade in terms of debuffing/damage from Shout and you're taking it anyway.

 

On a side note, when people are building, I think they need to remember that Cones virtually demand range. This makes Defender's Bastion ATO a strong choice (+10% global range in its superior version) and explicitly slotting for range for Howl is worthwhile.