Please revert the Rage change.

[Sniktch]

Don't feed the trolls, Kimuji - it just encourages them.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Sniktch said:

Don't feed the trolls, Kimuji - it just encourages them.

Disagreeing with someone is not "trolling".  Saying that anyone who is not on Discord has no idea what they are talking about or has no "real in-game experience" is trolling.

[Hyperstrike]

On 5/30/2019 at 6:58 PM, Vanden said:

Now I know this isn't true. Rage used to put you in Only Affecting Self rather than bottom out your damage

Now I only joined the game in 2008.  But it did NOT work like that in 2008 or at any point after that.

It was a damage crash and a defense crash that, because of the bug, was avoidable by stacking Rage.

[Hyperstrike]

29 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

The opinions of the people on Discord are no more or no less correct, incorrect or valid than those expressed here, despite your assertions otherwise.  

Then do the research and come up with the actual math.

As we know what opinions are like, and that everyone has one.

[Vanden]

14 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Now I only joined the game in 2008.  But it did NOT work like that in 2008 or at any point after that.

It was a damage crash and a defense crash that, because of the bug, was avoidable by stacking Rage.

It changed in Issue 11, which came out in November 2007, before your time.

[Hyperstrike]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:54 PM, JusticeEagle said:

 

No power set should need two inspirations every two minutes just to function normally.

 

OPINION.

 

On 6/1/2019 at 2:54 PM, JusticeEagle said:

In fact, you can't seem to answer any of my points.

 

How long is a piece of string?

Well!  Since you can't seem to answer THAT simple question!
 

On 6/1/2019 at 2:54 PM, JusticeEagle said:

You can't argue that rage is ok the way it is, so when super strength underperforms, your answer is just "deal with it". I have a better idea, fix it. Make it comparable other sets. Turns out that is possible. 🙂

 

Rage IS okay the way it is.  There is a penalty for having perma-build-up.

Who knew?

And by "fix" you mean "change".

Your sole argument for "fixing" it is "Well *I* don't like it!

Well.  *I* have no problem with Rage as it is now.  A bug has been fixed that allowed you to cheat around one of Rage's weak points.
Deal.

The crash is non-trivial.  But it is by NO means unmanageable.
Your argument against this is "I don't WANT TO manage it!"
Again, I say "Deal!"

Changing it to work like Build Up/Aim would require management as well.

 

On 6/1/2019 at 2:54 PM, JusticeEagle said:

I can't fathom your reason for wanting to keep rage broken, because fixing it wouldn't impact you in any real way, but it definitely needs to be fixed.

 

All that being said, I do appreciate you helping me make my point, however unintentional that was. No other set needs insps to function normally, so I do appreciate the fact that somebody who wants to keep rage broken is forced to admit that.

 

Because, Rage is only broken according TO YOU.

And yes, fixing it WOULD impact me.  Because it would either reintroduce a bug or it would seriously change the set.

Respectfully, politely, humbly, NO!

Rage doesn't "require insps" to function normally.
You just object to "normal" function and won't listen to any strategies meant to alleviate the downsides of normal function.

Not sure what else to tell you.

[ShardWarrior]

55 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

As we know what opinions are like, and that everyone has one.

Yours included. ;)

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Now I only joined the game in 2008.  But it did NOT work like that in 2008 or at any point after that.

It was a damage crash and a defense crash that, because of the bug, was avoidable by stacking Rage.

You didn't have Shield Defense, SR etc. for Tanks back then, so the avoidable -DEF crash was moot.

[Hyperstrike]

13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You didn't have Shield Defense, SR etc. for Tanks back then, so the avoidable -DEF crash was moot.

The fact is that, as the devs left it, the defense crash was SUPPOSED to be an UNAVOIDABLE part of the power.
They simply hadn't gotten around to correcting it.

It's been corrected.
Not everyone likes it.
Life goes on.

[ironjoe]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Because, Rage is only broken according TO YOU.

Please don't discount the opinion of myself and many others in this thread topic. People can have differing opinions without them being completely discounted. Discounting the opinions and experience of others is quite toxic to discussion. Being marginalized in your responses doesn't persuade others towards your point but motivates them in the opposite direction.

[DeformedBrit]

 

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Then do the research and come up with the actual math.

As we know what opinions are like, and that everyone has one.

Okay here's some maths, rage crash causes the character to lose 20% of their defence across the board. Assuming most level 50 tankers/brutes are defence capped that means they will lose 44% of their defence for 10 seconds every time the power crashes. I'm sure even you can understand 44% is a large number for a penalty that hits as often as rage crash does. Not only do they lose the defence but they do next to no damage and also lose a portion of their endurance. The latter two are acceptable debuffs, they hit each defensive set equally.

 

Quote

How long is a piece of string?

Well!  Since you can't seem to answer THAT simple question!

Oh grow up.

 

Quote

Rage IS okay the way it  is.  There is a penalty for having perma-build-up

Yes and the penalty was not doing damage for 10 seconds and losing endurance. Though okay, so whats the penalty for having permanent follow up double stacked, which is essentially a rage. You're talking out of your arse. Also Stalkers have ATO's which fully recharge their build up power too. Make rage unstackable for all I care and remove the penalties so it's the same as follow up then If we are going off other sets.

 

Quote

Because, Rage is only broken according TO YOU.

Nope. If you take the time to read the thread you'd understand he's not the only one. Even then there are people who can't be bothered to write on forums to complain about it.

[ShardWarrior]

29 minutes ago, ironjoe said:

Please don't discount the opinion of myself and many others in this thread topic. People can have differing opinions without them being completely discounted. Discounting the opinions and experience of others is quite toxic to discussion. Being marginalized in your responses doesn't persuade others towards your point but motivates them in the opposite direction.

Shouting down others is what the uneducated do instead of having a discussion.  Some folk just don't like points of view that differ from them, so they shout them down because thats all they can come up with.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

The fact is that, as the devs left it, the defense crash was SUPPOSED to be an UNAVOIDABLE part of the power.
They simply hadn't gotten around to correcting it.

It's been corrected.
Not everyone likes it.
Life goes on.

It was supposed to be unavoidable prior to the addition of SR, Shields etc. for Brutes and Tanks.  No doubt this would have been worked on further to become more palatable for heavy DEF reliant sets. 

[justicebeliever]

35 minutes ago, ironjoe said:

Please don't discount the opinion of myself and many others in this thread topic. People can have differing opinions without them being completely discounted. Discounting the opinions and experience of others is quite toxic to discussion. Being marginalized in your responses doesn't persuade others towards your point but motivates them in the opposite direction.

Well said sir, well said.  +1 to your reputation.

 

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Shouting down others is what the uneducated do instead of having a discussion.  Some folk just don't like points of view that differ from them, so they shout them down because thats all they can come up with.

And you sir, this doesn’t help your cause either.  Calling people uneducated is downright rude.  And name calling, rudeness, tit-for-tat, etc is often a tactic used when you’ve run out of quality points to support your side.  I’m not saying you have, and I don't have an opinion on this topic, except that for me SS is still fun.

[ShardWarrior]

There is an old Vulcan proverb ... "if the shoe fits..."

Edited August 7, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Williwaw]

14 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

It was supposed to be unavoidable prior to the addition of SR, Shields etc. for Brutes and Tanks.  No doubt this would have been worked on further to become more palatable for heavy DEF reliant sets. 

Even in Issue 1, Tankers had Stone Armor and Ice Armor.  There was never a time in the game's entire history where they had no "heavy DEF reliant sets", so the devs knew and intended the -Def effect right from the start.

 

(Mind you, I don't disagree that something should be done about the crash for the game as it stands now.  Just that SR and Shields were hardly the first Defense-based sets a Tanker got)

Edited August 7, 2019 by Williwaw

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Williwaw said:

Even in Issue 1, Tankers had Stone Armor and Ice Armor.  There was never a time in the game's entire history where they had no "heavy DEF reliant sets", so the devs knew and intended the -Def effect right from the start.

The Devs also had Instant Healing being a toggle and didn't have ED back in Issue 1.  The game evolved quite a lot since that time.

[Kimuji]

19 minutes ago, Williwaw said:

Even in Issue 1, Tankers had Stone Armor and Ice Armor.  There was never a time in the game's entire history where they had no "heavy DEF reliant sets", so the devs knew and intended the -Def effect right from the start.

 

(Mind you, I don't disagree that something should be done about the crash for the game as it stands now.  Just that SR and Shields were hardly the first Defense-based sets a Tanker got)

While being a bad set for Tankers in general Super Reflexes handles the Rage crash quite well actually. You can pump your Defenses so high with SR that even with a -20% on your defenses you are still over the soft cap.

As for Shield there's a problem, when you could bypass the crash by stacking Rage Shield/SS Tankers were absolutely OP. You could basically maintaint yourself at the damage cap 90% of the time.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Kimuji

[Hyperstrike]

5 hours ago, DeformedBrit said:

 

Okay here's some maths, rage crash causes the character to lose 20% of their defence across the board. Assuming most level 50 tankers/brutes are defence capped that means they will lose 44% of their defence for 10 seconds every time the power crashes. I'm sure even you can understand 44% is a large number for a penalty that hits as often as rage crash does. Not only do they lose the defence but they do next to no damage and also lose a portion of their endurance. The latter two are acceptable debuffs, they hit each defensive set equally.

 

Yes.  10 WHOLE seconds.  The activation length of 2, maybe 3 powers if recharge is beefy enough.
And yes, I understand comparative percentages.
And you're still treating the Defense Crash as if it means you're AUTOMATICALLY going to be hit or something.

 

5 hours ago, DeformedBrit said:

Oh grow up.

You first!
It was meant to highlight the argumentative style being used.

Nonsensical questions are framed.
And when they're ignored, "well, you can't answer that so I must be right!".

Pfft.
 

5 hours ago, DeformedBrit said:

Yes and the penalty was not doing damage for 10 seconds and losing endurance. Though okay, so whats the penalty for having permanent follow up double stacked, which is essentially a rage. You're talking out of your arse. Also Stalkers have ATO's which fully recharge their build up power too. Make rage unstackable for all I care and remove the penalties so it's the same as follow up then If we are going off other sets.

 

Nope. If you take the time to read the thread you'd understand he's not the only one. Even then there are people who can't be bothered to write on forums to complain about it.

Follow Up requires you to actually hit your enemy.  This isn't always guaranteed.
Rage has no such limitation.

So I'd check my OWN bum before accusing others of talking out theirs.

Ah.  And the assumption that YOUR opinion is that of "the silent majority".

I will assume no such thing.

And unless the devs are going to basically do away with the "Cottage Rule" (and fixing the Defense Crash in no way violated it), I don't really see you getting what you want.

 

[Hyperstrike]

5 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Shouting down others is what the uneducated do instead of having a discussion.  Some folk just don't like points of view that differ from them, so they shout them down because thats all they can come up with.

And assuming that someone disagreeing with you is somehow oppressing you and "shouting you down" is what those who can't actually support their arguments do when backed into a corner.

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

The Devs also had Instant Healing being a toggle and didn't have ED back in Issue 1.  The game evolved quite a lot since that time.

Yep.  And the last iteration of Rage on live was acknowledged to have a bug that allowed one to cheat the Defense crash.

That, like the lag valley in the ITF and the inevitable crashing of Tyrant's personal mission have since been FIXED.

[ShardWarrior]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

And assuming that someone disagreeing with you is somehow oppressing you and "shouting you down" is what those who can't actually support their arguments do when backed into a corner.

It isn't an assumption.  You are shouting down others who have a differing opinion.  Not everyone plays the same way  and everyone has different opinions.  Yes, opinions and those are what matter.  If a person does not like the game because something does not work or play to their liking, all the math in the world is not going to change that.

 

Anyway, this is a pointless discussion.  This is never going to get changed back to what it was on live, which is all that some of us wanted.  I'm happy that those of you who are fine with Rage as is can enjoy it.

Edited August 7, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Galaxy Brain]

Wait, it's an "opinion" that sets shouldn't need to use inspirations to function?

[DeformedBrit]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Follow Up requires you to actually hit your enemy.  This isn't always guaranteed.
Rage has no such limitation.

Well yeah it pretty much is guaranteed to hit because follow up gives you a tohit bonus as well. Even then, in the unlikely event you do miss, the recharge is so low it doesn't matter. So what's the explanation then? Surely this is OP as it has no drawbacks? Please enlighten me as to why this is fine and Rage has 3 debuffs. 

Also you still haven't answered as to why the no damage for 10 seconds and endurance crash isn't enough of a penalty.

[Kimuji]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Wait, it's an "opinion" that sets shouldn't need to use inspirations to function?

What are insipirations for then if the game is so easy that you don't need them? Consumables are meant to be used, having to eat an inspiration doesn't mean that you failed somewhere and you're a bad player. AE farmers eat damage inspirations by the dozens, does it mean that their builds or powers are broken?

Edited August 7, 2019 by Kimuji