The Problem with New Interface Abilities

[JayboH]

I would love to see 3 more Interface abilities, addressing the lack of lethal/cold/smashing DoT options.

 

The problem comes from having only so many debuffs available for creating those 3.

 

A smashing DoT mixed with a 4 second stun makes thematic sense to me, like the Cognitive one (although I question the chance % being so low on Cognitive and Spectral - the confuse makes you lose xp and the immobilize is barely noticeable on Spectral as it is- it should be 4 sec IMO.) 

 

...but then what?  A cold DoT would make you think of slows and -rech but Gravitic already has that covered.  Maybe slips and does knockdown?  Problem with that is how knockdown is coded as a very low magnitude knockback, meaning if 4 stacks of knockdown hit an enemy I assume they would go flying - think of iTrial scenarios.

 

Perhaps for the lethal DoT it could add a 4 second fear along the lines of Cognitive/Spectral, or perhaps a chance at placing a 'mark' on a target that combos into something - not sure, as we are running into a lack of debuffs we can use and also the soft control options.

 

Thoughts?

Edited May 6, 2021 by JayboH

[aethereal]

Can you stack knockback?  I think it's an instantaneous effect, so different sources can't stack it (one power activation can potentially stack, so if you have a knockdown power and then you add a %chance to KD proc, I think that can stack up into knockback).  But I've never seen it stack from different sources.  As far as I know, once you're in the KB/KD cycle, you're immune to other KB.

[JayboH]

Yes you can stack kb, at least you always could, in PvE.

[arcane]

Could pair cold and hold. Maybe lethal with the debuff to debuff resistance like in Acid Arrow?

[JayboH]

Well, that's a hard control, but I guess Confuse is as well, but I guess the main balance factor is always huge raids via iTrials and stacking.  What magnitude hold?  2 perhaps?

 

 

...hmm...  that could be used with the Hybrid that enables additional mag levels, which is interesting

Edited May 7, 2021 by JayboH

[JayboH]

Hmm... what if lethal marked a target for a low chance at a mini crit?  We already have resistance debuffing and -MaxHP to help push damage so I dunno

[Replacement]

Or just duplicate the secondary effects. You can only have 1 equipped, so it just becomes an alternative for better matching a theme.

[BrandX]

25 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Or just duplicate the secondary effects. You can only have 1 equipped, so it just becomes an alternative for better matching a theme.

 

Or you could go with...

 

Frostbite: Cold w/  -Cold Resist

Severity: Lethal w/ +ToHit

Beatdown: Smashing w/ +DMG

 

 

[arcane]

All of the above ideas could be fine if balanced appropriately. To me, the non-damage components tend to have tiny values that are thoroughly un-sexy, so just keep that in mind for all of the above... 

 

“-Cold Resist” sounds like a jip though unless it had a higher value than Reactive’s -Res(All). 

[Teirusu]

Here's a similar suggestion that I had not too long ago along the same vein with the idea of including extra taunt in one version of it.

 

 

[JayboH]

3 hours ago, Replacement said:

Or just duplicate the secondary effects. You can only have 1 equipped, so it just becomes an alternative for better matching a theme.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that, but that makes me wonder: are the 4 stack limits based on the power choice, or the debuff choice?  ...meaning if you just changed it to a Reactive clone with lethal damage instead of fire damage, would it be a stack of 4 Reactive and a stack of 4 of the new lethal interface or would it be a stack of 4 -resist debuffs regardless of Interface source?

[JayboH]

3 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Or you could go with...

 

Frostbite: Cold w/  -Cold Resist

Severity: Lethal w/ +ToHit

Beatdown: Smashing w/ +DMG

 

 

I think there are zero personal buffs because enemies are 'marked' for 'x' amount of seconds for the interface to do its thing.  This would be a neat idea though - it could open up lots more if that were possible.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

All of the above ideas could be fine if balanced appropriately. To me, the non-damage components tend to have tiny values that are thoroughly un-sexy, so just keep that in mind for all of the above... 

 

“-Cold Resist” sounds like a jip though unless it had a higher value than Reactive’s -Res(All). 

 

I was thinking it would have a higher -RES than Reactive, yes.

[JayboH]

6 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I was thinking it would have a higher -RES than Reactive, yes.

...or make it like -res to fire and cold, and make it temperature-themed perhaps.  Do the same for smashing/lethal.

Edited May 8, 2021 by JayboH

[BrandX]

1 minute ago, JayboH said:

...or make it like -res to fire and cold, and make it temperature-themed perhaps.  Do the same for energy/negative, and smashing/lethal.  That leaves psionic and toxic together I guess.

 

Well, not sure if we need one for the other resist types, as I figured this was just about getting more thematic interface's by damage type.  Unless you're thinking the S/L -Resist should go to the Smashing or Lethal Interface.

 

However, I do like adding the -Fire Resist to it, and making it temperature based.

[JayboH]

Just now, BrandX said:

 

Well, not sure if we need one for the other resist types, as I figured this was just about getting more thematic interface's by damage type.  Unless you're thinking the S/L -Resist should go to the Smashing or Lethal Interface.

 

However, I do like adding the -Fire Resist to it, and making it temperature based.

Yeah I edited it while you were typing this.

[BrandX]

Just now, JayboH said:

Yeah I edited it while you were typing this.

 

I did originally have the idea for the -Resist to a specific damage type, to the Smashing interface, but I didn't feel the +ToHit or +DMG fit the cold theme as well.

[America's Angel]

Some debuffs that could be interesting:

 

-damage

-heal

-perception

 

[BrandX]

59 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Some debuffs that could be interesting:

 

-damage

-heal

-perception

 

 

I had actually thought about -Perception to go along with a Cold Damage Interface.  

[Monos King]

 

4 hours ago, America's Angel said:

-damage

-heal

I think those two exist already in paralytic and gravitic respectively.

[JayboH]

20 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Some debuffs that could be interesting:

 

-damage

-heal

-perception

 

-Damage and -heal already exist, and -perception doesn't work because Interface only activates from damage abilities, and as soon as damage is applied it overrules any benefit that -perception applies for the player applying it - unless you are thinking of it being a fairly high debuff that tankers/brutes might want to narrow the view of enemies to mostly them to help keep aggro?  Not sure that would actually work anyway, it would have to be practically a global placate and placate is crazy strong for crowd control.

[BrandX]

14 hours ago, JayboH said:

-Damage and -heal already exist, and -perception doesn't work because Interface only activates from damage abilities, and as soon as damage is applied it overrules any benefit that -perception applies for the player applying it - unless you are thinking of it being a fairly high debuff that tankers/brutes might want to narrow the view of enemies to mostly them to help keep aggro?  Not sure that would actually work anyway, it would have to be practically a global placate and placate is crazy strong for crowd control.

 

Could make it placate?

[JayboH]

13 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Could make it placate?

Now multiply that by 4x each player in a huge raid/iTrial for every single player hitting enemies with placate.  Way too strong, no?  Enemies can't attack anything?

[BrandX]

30 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Now multiply that by 4x each player in a huge raid/iTrial for every single player hitting enemies with placate.  Way too strong, no?  Enemies can't attack anything?

 

I was thinking very low chance and that there was an IO with Placate Proc.  Nothing said the proc had to end up at 75%/25% ratio and such.

 

However, also in a huge raid/iTrial, for everyone with the placate proc, think about all those with an AOE attack/damage aura.  Placate disappears as soon as attacked.

[JayboH]

3 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I was thinking very low chance and that there was an IO with Placate Proc.  Nothing said the proc had to end up at 75%/25% ratio and such.

 

However, also in a huge raid/iTrial, for everyone with the placate proc, think about all those with an AOE attack/damage aura.  Placate disappears as soon as attacked.

The IO is in a fear set, for abilities designed for casting control already, if I recall correctly.  It can't be used in every single damage ability a player has.

 

Spectral and Cognitive are 12%-12.5%~ at one and and 20%-25% at the other end.  Spectral is soft and Cognitive is hard control.  Is Fear/Placate considered soft?  Is Placate basically a negative aggro/hate debuff?  Pretty sure it's an aggro prevention and removal tool rather than a monstrous perception debuff at any rate.  I've never looked at the numbers for that yet.

 

How does placate work on DoTs by the way?  If you hit an enemy with a slow dot and slam placate as soon as possible, does the next tick of the previous ability instantly remove the benefits of placate?  I assume so.

 

I guess I'd have to know more about it and what the chance would be.  Like it could really wreak havoc due to RNG on a team.  A tanker could nail a ton of placate on rolls while a blaster could roll duds and get all the aggro, although you'd kinda want to shoot a tanker that goes for placate interface.

 

Interesting.