Playing the new trick arrow

[KelvinKole]

Rolled up an illusion/ta troller last night thinking it would be a fun combo. Admittedly, looking at all the TA powers post buff is pretty overwhelming. They all look great, with no real auto skip powers, and the interactions between each one are interesting. How are people playing the newly revamped set and still having time for your primary? It looks like I’d at least want to get acid arrow, disruption arrow, and flash arrow applied as regularly as possible. What have beeb some approaches to locking down what you can and still get all the debuffs out? 

[Psyonico]

Flash Arrow doesn't notify enemies, so you can cast that before a fight starts.  On my TA Trollers I generally cast Flash Arrow before the fight, cast whatever AoE control I have on that toon, then drop debuffs.  the debuffs last long enough that in most cases you can get away with just casting one set per fight.  Acid Arrow is only really necessary IMO against harder targets

 

So on an Ill/TA it would look like Flash Arrow->PA/Spectral Terror/Flash-> Disruption Arrow->Blind->Spectral Wounds

[laudwic]

Just leveled a Ill/TA to 50.  I only skipped Ice Arrow in TA.  Skipped Group Invis and Flash in Illusion. 

 

Acid Arrow is great for Procs.  I use Disruption Arrow almost every fight.  Oil Slick is fun and flammable, I use it for boss fights.  I forget I have EMP Arrow generally, but It is useful.

 

Big fights: PA - Oil Slick - Bind (on the boss) - Disruption Arrow - Fireball (or Apprentice Charm) to set off the Oil Slick - Acid Arrow - Bind to now hold the boss - help PA as needed.

 

Spectral Terror is also fun to drop in the middle of enemies.  

[Corythia]

I can't imagine skipping Ice Arrow.  One of the great strengths of TA is the second hold, so you can hold one boss immediately, then a second boss a few seconds later, and keep them both held.  All while throwing some debuffs and other controls.  Your AOE controls and debuffs can take care of the chaff while you neuter the real dangerous mobs.  

[Carnifax]

Glue is pretty skippable. Acid too, although it can also be a bit of a proc monster. I like PGA as a one-slotter unresistable -Dam power (with the Overpowering proc in it to make little fonts) but it's not hugely important. 

 

On my Grav/TA Glue was the one I skipped, PGA is one slotted as above and Acid is procced up. Ice Arrow is there both as a backup hold and for the Moar Debuff it can throw on AVs. 

[Mr. Vee]

On my defender I skipped ice arrow, but I never take a hold without a damage component (I'm spoiled by 2 purple damage procs). Now that flash arrow isn't useless I didn't even consider ice. Also skipped poison gas. I don't think I'd miss acid arrow as I only ever use it for AV fights. There's not a bad power in the set anymore so it's just a matter of how much you want to use your other power set. 

[Hjarki]

My general approach:

• Entangling Arrow (Gravitational Anchor). This is a mandatory pick and it's not horrible, but not great. It's only a Mag 3 Immobilize, so it's not actually much good as an Immobilize. While you can theoretically lock down an AV/GM eventually and it can slot another purple set, it's primarily a -resist debuff for hard single target fights.
• Flash Arrow (4-set Cloud Senses, no proc). This is one of the key powers of the set and it will normally floor an opponent's hit unless they have ways to significantly resist -hit debuffs.
• Glue Arrow (skip). Aside from being a weak effect, it doesn't have good slotting options.
• Ice Arrow (4-set Basilisk's Gaze). While I don't actually use this much as a Hold, it's one of the best single target debuffs in game and it can slot the excellent Basilisk's Gaze.
• Poison Gas Arrow (skip). I want to like this, but it just doesn't do enough. Any time I'd be tempted to use it, Flash Arrow is the better option.
• Acid Arrow (procs). This can be used as an AE by slotting a host of different procs into it. Even on sets where you don't have Energy/Fire damage, this can permit igniting oil slicks.
• Disruption Arrow (nothing or Preemptive Optimization). The Endurance component of this power doesn't do much but permit slotting a set into a power that otherwise doesn't need slotting. However, it's a great -resist debuff.
• Oil Slick Arrow (various AE damage options). This does as much damage as most ultimates (albeit without Aim/Build Up) and can take a host of procs.
• EMP Arrow (4-set Basilisk's Gaze). The primary use I have for this power is actually the 'bubble'. As an offensive effect, it's narrow to the point of uselessness. However, being able to mule Hold sets and lay down a status protection effect makes it a strong pick.

Overall, I think Trick Arrow is one of the best sets because it has massive debuffing, exceptional slotting opportunities and covers a traditional weakness in Control sets (AE damage).

 

[Doomguide2005]

     Now I know I've been out of action too long (dang computer) ...  Entangling Arrow and Ice Arrow are both mezzes.   Illusion has trouble setting up containment as I recall.  Shouldn't this help setting up containment?  

     Flash Arrow isn't just a really sweet To Hit debuff, it's also a massive perception debuff.  You're practically guaranteed to make any foe unable to see the team including pesky foes that ignore stealth or have exceptionally large perception radius (i.e.) snipers.  You're Illusion you have Superior Invisibility-->you'll be able to get in range to blind them and then once alerted they'll be shooting back with that nasty To Hit debuff present.

 

[SmalltalkJava]

Were there more changes than just the visual change to the one attack?

[Psyonico]

2 minutes ago, SmalltalkJava said:

Were there more changes than just the visual change to the one attack?

The changes happened in the Page 1 update, the visual update happened in Page 2.  Here are the changes that happened in Page 1

 

Powerset Revamp: Trick Arrow

Trick Arrow has suffered with performance issues for a long time, primarily due to the strength of the debuffs against higher level enemies, but also due to redundancy between powers in the set. We've made a comprehensive suite of improvements, impacting almost every power in the set.

 

Power Changes (Numbers provided are Defender values)

•  Entangling Arrow
  • Immobilize duration reduced from scale 15 to scale 7
  • No longer has a -Recharge debuff
  • Now applies a 30s -Res debuff
    • PvP only: This effect is removed
•  Flash Arrow
  • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
  • -ToHit increased from -6.25% to -18.76%
    • Half this debuff is now irresistible
•  Glue Arrow
  • -Recharge debuff increased from -20% to -40%
  • Debuff duration increased from 30s to 60s
  • This power is now location based
•  Ice Arrow
  • Increased the -Recharge debuff from -12.5% to 25%
  • Now applies a 60s -Special and -Damage debuff
    • PvP only: -Heal, -Absorb and -Damage removed, the remaining debuffs only last 10s
•  Poison Gas Arrow
  • -Damage debuff now lasts 60 seconds
    • PvP only: Debuff only lasts for 3s after you leave the cloud
  • -Damage debuff increased from -31.25% to -50%
    • Half this debuff is now irresistible
•  Acid Arrow
  • Debuff radius increased from 8ft to 15ft (damage still has an 8ft radius)
  • -Res debuff moved to Disruption Arrow
    • This power still has a -25% defence debuff
  • Now applies a heal resistance debuff (heals on the target will be less effective)
    • PvP only: Debuff halved
  • Now applies a -special resistance debuff (Endurance, ToHit, Regen, Recovery, Recharge Time, and Endurance Discount debuffs against the target will be stronger)
    • PvP only: Reduced to -20%
  • Debuff duration increased from 20s to 45s
    • PvP only: Duration is still 20s
  • This power has a new icon
•  Disruption Arrow
  • Target cap increased from 10 to 16
  • Now applies a -MaxEnd debuff and takes Endurance Modification enhancements and sets
  • -Res debuff doubled (moved from Acid Arrow)
  • Only one Disruption Arrow can be maintained at once
  • Recharge decreased from 60s to 30s
  • Duration increased from 30s to 45s
•  Oil Slick Arrow
  • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
•  EMP Arrow
  • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
  • No longer applies -recovery to the caster
  • Half of the -regen debuff now lasts 45 seconds (previously the entire -regen debuff dropped off after 15 seconds, now only half of it does)
  • Hold duration for non-robots reduced by roughly 50%
  • This power is now location based
  • This power now spawns an EMP Field at the target location that acts similarly to Electrical Affinity's Faraday Cage and provides:
    • 15% damage resistance to all but Toxic (not enhanceable)
    • Resistance against End Drain and Recovery Debuffs
    • Protection against status effects and knock back

[SmalltalkJava]

Thanks for the info.  Now I'll have to redo my old Beat/TA proc based MM.   And look into a troller also.

[KelvinKole]

Thanks for the input all. I fully intend to proc out ice arrow as another attack. I’m surprised a bit by people saying poison gas arrow is skippable, isn’t it like a 50% damage debuff (defender value)? That’s like handing out 50% resist to the team. Does kill speed just make it obsolete? 
 

[Psyonico]

23 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

Thanks for the input all. I fully intend to proc out ice arrow as another attack. I’m surprised a bit by people saying poison gas arrow is skippable, isn’t it like a 50% damage debuff (defender value)? That’s like handing out 50% resist to the team. Does kill speed just make it obsolete? 
 

 

If I'm reading CoD right, the Controller values are 20% unresistable and 20% resistable for the -dam.  Nothing to scoff at there.

 

I love TA, my biggest problem is I always want to take everything in the set.  On Defenders I used to skip Entangling Arrow, but now with the -resist in it, I don't even recommend that.

[Doomguide2005]

17 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

Thanks for the input all. I fully intend to proc out ice arrow as another attack. I’m surprised a bit by people saying poison gas arrow is skippable, isn’t it like a 50% damage debuff (defender value)? That’s like handing out 50% resist to the team. Does kill speed just make it obsolete? 
 

Yes and it appears half is resistable and half is not.  And while that will be fairly meaningless vs the mob overall on many fast moving teams that is a strong debuff against hard targets like an EB, AV or GM.  And useful for a defender set with no self healing in its primary teamed or solo.  PS those values are 25% and 25% on a defender

[Carnifax]

5 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Oil Slick Arrow (various AE damage options). This does as much damage as most ultimates (albeit without Aim/Build Up) and can take a host of proc

Beware of procs in Oil Slick, ones from damage sets won't start proccing until it gets lit. 

[KelvinKole]

13 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

Beware of procs in Oil Slick, ones from damage sets won't start proccing until it gets lit. 

How well do procs work once lit? Do they pop upon ignition, at some set interval, or randomly per damage tick?

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

PROCs in patches usually check on initial cast followed by checks every 10s.

This. Because most patches are essentially an invisible pet with an aura they check every 10 seconds, starting at 0 seconds, with a fixed recharge of 10 seconds for the Proc Math. Given the wide area of Oil Slick and the quick fixed recharge of 10 seconds it tends to be a poor individual chance for the proc to hit someone. 

 

In other words procs don't tend to work well in big patches at all. 

[Elia87]

So it is pointless to slot and put procs in OSA?

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, Elia87 said:

So it is pointless to slot and put procs in OSA?

Not pointless, but you've probably got better options (Acid is good, Epic blasts can be good too)

[Carnifax]

8 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

The size of the area is a factor making it less likely the PROCs will go off on top of only checking every 10 seconds. Smaller patches are decent but not great. I think a good option for OSA is to maximize uptime IMO.

6 Artillery is my slotting for it. Cheap and 4% Ranged / Energy / Neg Def. And it comes with decent Recharge enhancement. 

 

Alteratively 5 Posi Blast (or Bombardment if you've a few Cones as well) and a 50+5 Common Recharge IO for the Recharge set bonus (6.25 for Posi, 5 for Bombardment but it also gives a 5% range bonus for 2 which is nice for Cones). 

[Elia87]

25 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

The size of the area is a factor making it less likely the PROCs will go off on top of only checking every 10 seconds. Smaller patches are decent but not great. I think a good option for OSA is to maximize uptime IMO.

By uptime you mean the recharge? I was thinking 3 Artillery and 1 res debuff..but maybe i'll slot an Recharge Reduction 

[schrodingercat]

one super important thing people are forgetting about Poison Gas Arrow is it makes things stand around and puke. This is the reason I take it - for the puking!

[MTeague]

Kind of amazed at people saying Glue Arrow is skippable.  The kitability and -Recharge is very nice. 

 

I am quite happy with my Praetorian Fire/Trick Arrow controller.  He's only lvl 12 so far, but Flash Arrow + Hot Feet + Fire Cages + Glue Arrow = you're melting,  can't hit me, get very few chances to attack me at all, can't escape, and if I mistime Fire Cages you'll never get away before I reapply it. 

[oedipus_tex]

Don't forget the Resistable portion of the -Damage in Poison Gas Arrow is multiplied by -Resist from Disruption Arrow and Entangling Arrow. So although the base is -20% or whatever (I forget the exact num and don't have it handy) that's then increased by 45% or so (again I dont have the exact numbers).

[Carnifax]

9 hours ago, MTeague said:

Kind of amazed at people saying Glue Arrow is skippable.  The kitability and -Recharge is very nice. 

 

I am quite happy with my Praetorian Fire/Trick Arrow controller.  He's only lvl 12 so far, but Flash Arrow + Hot Feet + Fire Cages + Glue Arrow = you're melting,  can't hit me, get very few chances to attack me at all, can't escape, and if I mistime Fire Cages you'll never get away before I reapply it. 

It's the easiest to drop, especially for Controllers with AOE Immobs and AOE hard mezzes. So it's not that it's bad really, more that it is excess and when you're looking to prune it tops the list.

 

On an Illusion for example I'd probably try and keep it.