My Roleplay Problem: I Suck at Clubbing

[GraspingVileTerror]

I don't want to crawl too far up my own rearside, so I apologize in advance for how this post comes off . . . but I generally feel fairly accomplished as a roleplayer.

I've taken on many roles, ranging from all sorts of walks of (un)life, social locations, eras, settings, mental acumens, personal identities, and beyond.

Some roles have been challenging, and some required quite a bit of research to get "correct."  Others fit like a well-worn [REDACTED, FOR GOOD TASTE].

And I'll never claim to be an expert.  In anything.  There's always room to grow.  There's always room to learn more.

 

But the role which I consistently freeze up on and just end up feeling like crap whenever I try and then fail to take on is . . . 

Club-goer.

 

Real life nightclubs are pretty much the antithesis to my being.  I've done BDSM dungeons and felt very comfortable in that space, but spaces with loud music and drinking but no other -purpose?-  Nothing structured?  Nothing organized?  Nothing to do?  Just "socializing?"

What even the hell is that?  I can't even.

 

This isn't normally a problem, but I do want to branch out a bit and get to making some connections with more roleplayers.  The club scene is a pretty strong one on Everlasting.  It feels pretty bad for me to be unable to tap in to that scene so utterly.

 

Does anyone have any insights that they may be willing to share?  Any ideas on how to potentially work around this issue I have without dragging down or disrupting the scene for anyone else?

I'm happy to learn!

[Crystal Dragon]

As a player that wanders scene to scene, I find the club going scene to be the most enclosed honestly. I like to switch things up, meet in a club, and move the scene elsewhere to do something else. Sort of a Hi, feel like hitting the streets to check things out in Brickstown? Or I'm just on a break between raids and unwinding for the moment to prepare for the next one, wanna keep me company and chat a while? 

 

I find people are actually more than willing to leave club scenes if you give them the right initiative or hook to draw them in for some more in character play, but too many haunt the social scenes rather than just getting in and digging hooks into other parts of the game and it's environments'. You aren't the only one however in this regards, there's been a few roleplayers expressing a distaste for stagnant scenes like the clubs and it just tends to be very disorganized as a while. I get people enjoy something stale now and then, but branching out doesn't take much effort if people just look outside of their routines now and then to incorporate roleplaying into their daily affairs. (Yeah, I know, says the one that roleplayings while healing a full MSR run and the occasional Hami.😄)

[Crazyleo]

I too suffer from this malady, mostly because of my social anxiety and my own introverted tendencies. But I do belong to an excellent VG that is trying hard to draw me out to that scene though.

[Coyotedancer]

I've never enjoyed clubbing or standing around in some bar out in the Real World, so I can't really say I was surprised to find out that I don't care for it in-game, either. 😝

 

Personal introversion aside, the "BarP Scene" on Ev has honestly never seemed all that open or inviting, anyway. The impression I've gotten is that it's basically still as closed-group based as any regular roleplay SG. The participants are just meeting up with the rest of their Usual Group in a more public setting. LIke those SGs, if you're in the group, you're involved with the group. If you're not? You're scenery. 

[Crystal Dragon]

I try to take in everyone in the scene as part of the Rp when I'm in character in the club scenes. I dislike removing others from social interactions unless they themselves made themselves unavailable to chat with or just to take notice of IC. It's understandable why anyone would be hesitant about rping in those scenes though, and I try to make myself available to RP with pretty much anyone, no matter the space or place in general. How you open that door, is up to you, but a lot of people don't have the energy to put a whole lot into their introductions and joining of new scenes straight away and like to vibe things out to see if the people present are comfortable with their own character playstyle or not.

[Andreah]

I could not begin to count the number of times the various club XYZ-1234's of the world have had an event, and I wanted to go, but just couldn't do it. Even when people I knew were there, and even when I'd been invited.

[Crystal Dragon]

17 hours ago, Andreah said:

I could not begin to count the number of times the various club XYZ-1234's of the world have had an event, and I wanted to go, but just couldn't do it. Even when people I knew were there, and even when I'd been invited.

I can understand that feeling. Many of the clubs and such venues I generally avoid. Oasis is the rare exception as I generally take my husband with me if I go there. But the rest? They either have lighting that really gives me a headache, or certain people there that I would much rather avoid and not make contact with again.

[Andreah]

8 hours ago, CrystalDragon said:

I can understand that feeling. Many of the clubs and such venues I generally avoid. Oasis is the rare exception as I generally take my husband with me if I go there. But the rest? They either have lighting that really gives me a headache, or certain people there that I would much rather avoid and not make contact with again.

For me it's primarily social anxiety.

[_Kai_]

I have no direct experience, as everything is pretty much over by the time I can log on being a late west coast player, but if its much like Pocket D, there are things you need and expectations you have to set as a character and a player.  Your character has to not be shy, they need to have a personality that has no problems jumping into other people's conversations and have enough background to draw from to be interesting, and you as a player have to know it well enough that it's engaging without having to rely on a friend/pet/second account because scroll is giant.  This might be hard if you, as a person, are not that kind of personality and takes some getting used to. As a player, well, its like hanging out at bars or clubs IRL, its best to take a friend with you and expect that for every 10 conversations you have, 1 will be really good and a handful more will be 'okay', set the bar super low if you are used to deep SG plot or events where there is a common thing that everyone's there for to provide an 'in'.

[Crystal Dragon]

5 hours ago, Andreah said:

For me it's primarily social anxiety.

*hugs to you* I getcha. I have anxiety as well, it takes time to overcome it, but I get panic attacks with large gathering and events. I find ways to plow through it by tunnel visioning but sometimes that can really make or break an RP scene for groups.

[Andreah]

For me, it's more a condition to live with than a problem I can solve. There are times and places when the proverbial stars align and I can manage to participate. I try to learn to recognize those circumstances; but they're rarely in club-RP, which I think is a shame, because it could be a lot of fun.

 

It can seem counter-intuitive. For example, if a club has a "greeter" at the door, saying hello to everyone, welcoming them to the club, and giving directions, that can be a barrier to me. Weird, right?

 

Sometimes it's sheer numbers. Say I know and have roleplayed with each of ten characters pretty well before; put them in one place and sometimes, I'm feeling the anxiety pretty strongly. So, in terms of clubs, it's easier for me to tag along with a smaller group of friends than a larger one. 

 

If there are activities and such beyond pure "socializing" (and this may be more to the OP's original issue), such as roleplaying billiards, or darts, or dancing, and so on, this works better for me. Possibly because it distracts me from the wider social environment; or perhaps because the groups involved tend to become smaller, more topically focused, sub-groups.

 

There have been larger RP events I've been to, participated in, and even organized, but I have to say these haven't been pleasant. I can force myself through them based on a sense of obligation or objective, but it's become "work" at that point to me, not play.

[Greycat]

Eh. I just don't club-RP.  If I'm going to one, whether it's Pocket D or one of the player created ones, I'm typically going there for some purpose for some set amount of time - I see someone on that I need to talk to and they're there, or it's a prearranged meeting going into something else, or maybe karaoke night (which... the one I know of tends to conflict with a SG night, so I miss going to those.)

 

I'm not one (IC or IRL) typically to start conversations with someone I don't know. My characters (and I) don't tend to go somewhere to drink or flirt or whatever at the end of their day - if it's someone who drinks, that drinking will tend to be "at home" or somewhere with a very few people they know. *shrug*

 

Only character I have that does any clubbing on a regular basis is Louisville Slaughter, and that's the "hit people with a baseball bat" variety, not the "dance, drink and be around people" sort.

[GraspingVileTerror]

 . . .

 

Ok, terrible idea, but . . . hear me out . . . 

 

What if we schedule a Clubbing Night one of these days?

 

No, no.  Not a bar or nightclub.

Like @Greycat's joke at the end there.

A night where we all play as some variety of War Mace or Bane Spider characters, and we all go CLUBBING.

Yeah?

[rookery.]

Long as it's not just exclusive to clubs Jester will come. Melting peoples faces is always a good time!

 

Club RP feels like the lowest common denominator for getting a group together for roleplaying. Not to denigrate it, rather a CLUB or a WEDDING/FUNERAL are the easiest ways to get people to join up and TALK to one another. And I would argue, clubs are the easiest of those to setup. 

 

I mean by design it is a place to go and see or be seen by other people and to occasionally chat about things, and given roleplayers, that usually means their characters and their backstories, "I'm not sure you should be telling me about your plans to build a nuclear device in your basement."

 

But like RL, that person in the club with the awesome look that you compliment, "Hey that's a great look! Are you... a Pisces." instead becomes, "Hey that's a great look! Are you ... a dragon?" and then may lead to further conversation between the two chars. perhaps more as others may join in. 

 

Feel free to come by the Black Cat club Tuesday nights at 8 pm EST. and explore! 🙂

[Badger54]

I had been told for the better part of a decade across five separate MMOs by gatekeepers and 'pillars of the community' that 'people don't really want social RP/slice of life RP/relationship RP, the majority really want XYZ but you don't see it because it's behind the closed doors of a permanent group.'  

At this point I've accepted that was garbage, and yes, actually that really is what most people want.  With a long term partner/tripod/harem/whatever.  People don't want 'plots,' they don't want adventure or intrigue or mystery, they want to hang out somewhere as an idealized version of themselves and talk about the same damn things they talk about in real life and be affirmed and validated (especially if they do not receive that in 'real life').   Because even behind those closed doors, I found that's what people wanted.

And that's fine.   It's what people want.  Just not really what I wanted or am proficient at.  And that's just how it is.

So I've lowered my expectations to something more healthy, and try to be happy with what I get as a roleplayer rather than keep chasing something I've built up in my head that doesn't match up with reality.

 

[rookery.]

*raises hands* I...want plots. I want both really.

 

But I understand that plotting takes a lot of effort and setup, just like being a DM for a Tabletop game. Only doing it out in the open where anyone can pop in is even MORE nerve wracking. 

 

[_Kai_]

Speaking as someone who runs plots, it is very much an SG or group of established friends thing that is rarely in an open space because the logistics of a making something interesting and at least not a complete cakewalk if an AE/fight is involved is hard enough when you have a set of known quantities that could participate,   If you go trying to make a plot about like....someone having to deal with a cursed object after getting in the middle of some Tsoo and Warriors for characters that have the 'feel' of sort of city scale powers its frustrating, disruptive, and altogether a train wreck if you do it in the open and a handful of people join in the conversation with 'oh well I'm a demigod/fae/really powerful sorcerer lemme just un-curse that for you!' because you have to figure out how to either explain why they can't, or flat out say it OOCly, and they accuse your group of being 'closed' or a 'clique' and the people already involved for which this was intended to be High Stakes are now having to pretend the whole incident didn't happen, or spend time on 'protecting' the feel of the plot than actually playing through it.

[Crystal Dragon]

As someone that enjoys building storylines off of various different characters and creating indepth tales to delve into, I find roleplay can be hard sometimes because I don't push myself out of my comfort zone as much as I'd really like to because of my own personal fears of judgement and misplaced concerns coming from past experiences I've had in other mmos. COH was my first attempt at Hero / Villain roleplaying and I've really enjoyed it but large group events, gatherings with lots of people I hadn't met or know IC, I get really flighty and try to escape the scene as quickly as I can because it puts a lot of my anxieties to the forefront of my mind. I want to be able to involve more players into my circle of IC contacts, but I don't want to deal with misunderstandings, miscommunications and crossed wires that often happen for people that are of the neurodiverse spectrums. I do tend to lean more to a clique sort of collective for roleplaying because of this, most of the people I play with are either experienced roleplayers, or learning the ropes - which I'm more than happy to help with answering common questions and sometimes assist with developing background details or help find information to solidify their concepts. As a roleplayer, I'm fairly open to walk-up's, cross encounters, and introductions through any of my friends, and most of them know who they are by now. As long as we understand communication is key to story development and player interactions, there won't be a single issue with me. Club scenes tend to put me on edge in a manner that I cannot foresee interactions with random players going well and tend to stay the wall flower and watch how things unfold and react to things as I see it with my characters, and very rarely get involved. I'm a late night lurker in clubs, my front line duties with Crys takes a priority that most players find either annoying, or interferring with their play time schedules so I don't have as broad of a group to make contacts with as I'd truly like. But I keep myself out there, like dangling a bit of jerky for hungry nibblers. If ya wanna RP and don't mind wandering OUT of the Club scene, feel free to hit me up or just see if I'm interested via tell. I keep my tell's in a seperate tab from the main local/emotes/team/league chats but I'll definitely hear the ping and answer it as quickly as I am able.

TL;DR ver. I do like to watch things happening in the clubs, but am generally hesitant to jump in unless I legit know the characters involved personally. SOMETIMES I jump in cause it's the right thing to do, and SOMETIMES it's just a matter of how drunk my character really is. Beyond that, I avoid staying in the clubs for longer than a couple hours at a time for my own peace of mind.

[Siouxsie]

Suffering from both simple shyness and social anxiety I have to support the scenery approach.

 

I've been getting back into the game after a long break, and with Pride happening I decided to get out of my comfort zone and start clubbing.  I find an unoccupied spot on the dance floor, the bar, or the slot machines and park myself for a while.  From there I listen and get a feel for the place, while throwing out the occasional quip if I can get away with it. I've had a few people walk up and while they weren't intense interactions, it at least broke the ice.  (Wait staff and bartenders make good low pressure, short conversation scenes.)  One night I helped close the club down and by then there were only a handful of us, which made it much easier to be a part of the conversation.  I figure show up often enough and people start to recognize you, and you start to recognize them, so it becomes easier to join in.

 

The down side to that method is it can eat up a lot of time without much immediate payout.  So find a club playing a stream of music you enjoy, or get yourself a real drink and costume watch while settling in.

[teamtr]

I don't enjoy club RP exclusively, but in moderation, and with the promise of interesting things going on outside the club, I can be happy with it. Clubs are very useful for browsing around and meeting new people. I met my current SG, which I'm very happy with, just going to Black Cat for the first time, getting into a conversation with someone interesting, and being directed to that SG's table.

 

Scenes in clubs can give me a moment to slow my character down a bit and explore more basic social interactions beyond just "Good blazes! Dr. Evil replaced the President's bulletproof vest with a live cobra! We've got to warn him!" That being said, it's definitely not my style to only do slice of life basic social RP, or scenes where nothing gets accomplished or we learn nothing about anyone's characters. I don't have nearly enough time to dedicate to that, but that's just my personal experience, and everyone's entitled to what appeals to them.

 

Another thing I will note is that the setting does not matter nearly so much as the content. I have engaged in some of the most gripping, visceral scenes I've ever been a part of in the middle of a club, and I've been half-AFK in the middle of a crazy high-stakes mission on a team of fellow heroes fighting for our lives and for the fate of the Earth. RP following a plot is not inherently more valuable, respectable, or 'correct' than walkup RP, slice of life RP, giant demon woman harem tickle fight RP, or even ERP. It's just about what keeps everybody in the scene engaged, what develops people's characters in a satisfying way, and what tells a story its participants will remember.

 

(I love clubbing IRL, but only started after I met my partner. It's a lot of fun going to clubs when you're already taken and can dance and have fun together. I've also gone clubbing with my siblings, which is also a great move, because then someone in your group is always ready to slip you an Ibuprofen on the dancefloor or let you be stupid drunk without judgement, and there's no stupid friend politics you have to navigate or some friend-of-a-friend you don't know super well you have to be awkward with the whole night. Would recommend.)

[TwoDee]

On 7/14/2021 at 5:04 AM, Badger54 said:

I had been told for the better part of a decade across five separate MMOs by gatekeepers and 'pillars of the community' that 'people don't really want social RP/slice of life RP/relationship RP, the majority really want XYZ but you don't see it because it's behind the closed doors of a permanent group.'  

At this point I've accepted that was garbage, and yes, actually that really is what most people want.  With a long term partner/tripod/harem/whatever.  People don't want 'plots,' they don't want adventure or intrigue or mystery, they want to hang out somewhere as an idealized version of themselves and talk about the same damn things they talk about in real life and be affirmed and validated (especially if they do not receive that in 'real life').   Because even behind those closed doors, I found that's what people wanted.

And that's fine.   It's what people want.  Just not really what I wanted or am proficient at.  And that's just how it is.

So I've lowered my expectations to something more healthy, and try to be happy with what I get as a roleplayer rather than keep chasing something I've built up in my head that doesn't match up with reality.

 

I was originally planning on responding to this post last week, but several family birthdays and one doggie trip to the veterinarian later, it totally slipped my mind.  So let me see if I can dredge up what I was thinking of saying in the moment, because I think I simultaneously agree and disagree with this contentious post.

 

I disagree with the heavily implied notion that 'in-depth RP plots existing behind the closed doors of a permanent group is a myth,' because I have patently contradictory evidence.  The New Praetorians Initiative has had several group-participatory 'meta' plots written by members of the guild (most prominently @_Kai_ above and @CellyEl) to varying, but generally positive, degrees of success.  We're always learning more about how to engage our fluctuating player base, which is reward in and of itself, and it gives players a shared backstory of crisis to reflect upon in social RP.

 

But that's just the rub of it; there's a lot of social RP, because it's a lot easier than running a sweeping, gamemastered plot, it's available as 'pick-up RP,' and slice of life still falls very much into our mandate.  Furthermore, I think I ultimately agree with you that 'what most roleplayers want' is that kind of relationshippy, parasocial space described in the post... or at least, I think that's the main drive towards RP for a large contingent of players and that's fine provided that expectations are made clear (which it sounds like they weren't, to you).

 

Something that doesn't often get a lot of discussion vis-a-vis RP communities is that two or more RPers are generally coming at the exercise looking for something absolutely different from both a metanarrative and emotional-needs perspective.  I think we all have an element of that parasocial, "this is my OC and I want to show them off" drive because it's sort of built-in to the space, but there are plenty for whom merely Existing As My OC is both the end and the means, and generally speaking that's a totally valid way to roleplay.  There are others who approach RP as a storytelling, worldbuilding, or character-exploration exercise, which is more where I'd place myself, and it's lead to a lot of interesting and impassioned debates over CORP-side with [a player who may not want me to tag him] who takes a strict-simulationist approach and believes that my tendency to crowbar characters into the appropriate shapes for a narrative box-puzzle is violating their authenticity as simulated people.  To call it a spectrum would be a disservice, because that implies a scalable binary between, say, 'likes slice of life' and 'likes plot.'  It's more like trying to find a car, or a house, that works for you.  Everyone is going to have their own intensely personalized needs.

 

As for my suggestions to bridge the divide, it's a robust and constant line of OOC communication, be that through OOC tells, proactively asking other players to help you workshop plots, or a companion Discord or OOC channel.  We're all chasing the unicorn of that magic, completely spontaneous moment where someone lines up IC perfectly flush with all of our expectations in one glorious, angel-descending-from-heaven introduction, but similar to you, I've found that relying on that as my de facto expectation is a good way to have boring RP.

[teamtr]

34 minutes ago, TwoDee said:

To call it a spectrum would be a disservice, because that implies a scalable binary between, say, 'likes slice of life' and 'likes plot.'  It's more like trying to find a car, or a house, that works for you.  Everyone is going to have their own intensely personalized needs.

 

Your whole post is a great read, but this stands out to me as an absolutely fantastic way of illustrating the concept. (I like to think my RP is like an overgrown junkyard trailer that's just jam packed full of sad, angry women.)

 

39 minutes ago, TwoDee said:

We're all chasing the unicorn of that magic, completely spontaneous moment where someone lines up IC perfectly flush with all of our expectations in one glorious, angel-descending-from-heaven introduction, but similar to you, I've found that relying on that as my de facto expectation is a good way to have boring RP.

 

Sometimes the real magic is in the stories you tell and the memories you make while you're chasing that unicorn. Most of my favorite scenes have come from the organic, logical conclusions of my character's motivations, temptations, needs or weaknesses. Just about getting your character to a state that feels solid and then starting a fire under them to see what happens.

[GraspingVileTerror]

I think you have a lot of great insights, @TwoDee, so thank you for sharing them!  And I don't mean to split hairs, but I do think it's important to address the statement "we're all chasing ..."

As I just brought up in the other thread about advice tidbits; nah.  That chase ain't my bag.

I've had WAY too many bad experiences from someone (including myself) jumping in to a scene without OOC negotiations first.  At this point, I would be too rife with anxiety and concern to enjoy an otherwise "glorious, angel-descending-from-heaven introduction," no matter how many check boxes it struck.

[teamtr]

I definitely agree with your pro-OOC setup stance @GraspingVileTerror, even though I don't mind spontaneity. I think some of the best scenes I've been in have had at least a little bit of OOC rapport built up first where both parties understand what they're looking for, so I understand completely.

 

(Plus, I can't tell you how many horror stories I have from my earlier RP days where I'd encounter some other player who is exclusively interested in being a little Don Giovanni, but I don't discover that fact until I realize their character is just nonstop trying to steer the conversation into "your place or mine". Terrible tango scraping those people off. Your anxiety isn't unfounded. 🙄)

[chase]

 

On 7/29/2021 at 1:58 PM, teamtr said:

I definitely agree with your pro-OOC setup stance @GraspingVileTerror, even though I don't mind spontaneity. I think some of the best scenes I've been in have had at least a little bit of OOC rapport built up first where both parties understand what they're looking for, so I understand completely.

 

(Plus, I can't tell you how many horror stories I have from my earlier RP days where I'd encounter some other player who is exclusively interested in being a little Don Giovanni, but I don't discover that fact until I realize their character is just nonstop trying to steer the conversation into "your place or mine". Terrible tango scraping those people off. Your anxiety isn't unfounded. 🙄)

Frustrating, but I do remind myself that It can be anxious for the Don Giovanni's too.  I'm OOC friendly and avoid Tabby's more natural brusqueness.   Getting shot down, even in character, isn't fun and can lead to some to take offense, no matter how gently you approach it, and that unexpected jolt can lead to... well... people being assholes.   <Venting> Apparently "no ERP" in a catgirl's bio is just meant to be a joke.   The stories of the "social activities" of feliform females extends across so many genres that it must be a universal constant.  If you're at all concerned about your prospects to hook up and you see a catgirl in the room... you're now just concerned whether there will be a line.  Getting turned down by a girl with critter ears and a tail isn't possible in their worldview.  I've had people wonder why I bothered rolling her up if I wasn't into RP nookie.  Or accuse me of baiting them on (purely by playing a catgirl?) just to humiliate them.   </Venting>  

(inhale)
(exhale)

and- to be clear-  that's just from a polite decline and a friendly OOC follow-up.   Social anxiety can run that high.

 

If I was being true to character- or at least her character history, that anxiety could really hit a breaking point.   Strangely, I made Tabby aware of (and repulsed by) the "public perception of catgirls" in part due to my own anxiety.  I couldn't bring myself to roleplay her due to the stigma attached to felinoids.   A friend challenged me with, "if it bothers YOU, imagine how SHE feels." and  I gave it a shot.  Of course, since I shared my anxiety with my friends, I knew they'd be sure to steer clear of things I'd find uncomfortable and play nice and.... absolutely not.  (I'm  a terrible judge of character :P)   They made a game about creating awkward situations for me/her and I'd retaliate in the dumbest way possible-  by twisting it into some kind of cringeworthy rom-com failure.  This only encouraged escalation- a kind of nuclear proliferation until you've reached rom-com awkwarness that even Ben Stiller would walk away from.

That's all fine and dandy among friends, but with the anxiety encountered just mustering up an RP approach, it could be absolutely destructive.   It's one thing to laugh at a cringeworthy rom-com moment you're watching;  it's another to unexpectedly find yourself part of one.   Heck, a terrible pick-up line might really REALLY deserve to be called out IC-ly, but I can't even bring myself to risk upsetting someone, no matter how much I feel Tabby would critique it.

 

(( Besides, they're using that line on a catgirl, so how hard do they have to try, right?  :"Wait.  'I'm a pony. Ride me. '  THAT's what you're going with.   You flag me down all the way from redside D just to say that? Seriously?   And how, exactly did you imagine that going down?  How did you... no... nevermind, just...  go....  ... go... see that catgirl?  No, the one by the carnie.  The other carnie.   Closest to the carnie.  Maybe try her. *watches him leave*  ..... Hot damn. It worked?  Seriously?  Goddamn, I need to find a way out of this body.   I can't even...  HEY! GET A ROOM YOU TW... THREE.."))

(That, and I'm rusty and jaded in my old age.   It's hard to come up with new material. Everything's just a retread of a long-past gem, and you can't recapture the old magic.   Kinda like rom-com's nowadays.)

Edited July 30, 2021 by chase