How do you play...

[Ultimo]

In the past, I've usually played more sturdy characters... Tankers, mainly.  I've never really played Blasters or Controllers much... and I'm finding them a bit mysterious.

 

Blasters have NO defense to speak of, and rely on killing enemies before they can do much damage.

Controllers (and the like) depend on locking down foes, so they don't take damage... because they also have no defense to speak of.

 

So what do you do when you're facing foes you can't kill quickly, or lock down, like bosses or elite bosses?  My Tankers have never really had a problem with those kinds of foes, but the Blasters and Controller types just get squashed before they can do much of anything.

So, how do you Blaster/Controller pros deal with enemies like that?

 

(And I know I can just use piles of purples, but I don't think that should be necessary... my Tanks and Brutes don't have to resort to that...)

[DreadShinobi]

Insp tax is real. Purples also break the game tbh. So do defensive IO set bonuses. Getting to just 20% positional defense isnt that hard to get to on a blaster and means you only need to pop 2 small purple insps to get to the 45% softcap. Blasters can make critters hit the floor faster than most anything else also means they can get more insps faster to keep the insp buff flowing. Rune of Protection, even post-nerf, is still great for blasters. On teams you can certainly be the first person into a spawn, but you also don't need to be, post alpha strike damage is quite minimal.

[Omega Force]

Just don't fight them.  Turn off bosses solo until you're higher level and have the resources to handle them.

[GraspingVileTerror]

As a Controller, I use terrain to my advantage to get two applications of my Hold on a Boss before they can hit me.

 

Blasters I pop Build Up and Aim right before laying EVERYTHING I have on the Boss in an effort to bring them down straight away.

 

Defenders are generally the one where I have the most trouble, but terrain and tactical movement help significantly for all Archetypes.

 

Granted, in all of those scenarios, that's assuming just SOs and no P2W goodies.  Which . . . honestly, hasn't really been the case for a long, long time.

[Ultimo]

53 minutes ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

As a Controller, I use terrain to my advantage to get two applications of my Hold on a Boss before they can hit me.

 

Blasters I pop Build Up and Aim right before laying EVERYTHING I have on the Boss in an effort to bring them down straight away.

 

Defenders are generally the one where I have the most trouble, but terrain and tactical movement help significantly for all Archetypes.

 

Granted, in all of those scenarios, that's assuming just SOs and no P2W goodies.  Which . . . honestly, hasn't really been the case for a long, long time.

It's all I use.  I can't afford all the bells and whistles.

 

I've just been wondering.  My Blaster is only L20 now, but he has GREAT difficulty even taking on three minions, let alone bosses.  I'm supposed to take on Veles in that KR mission line, but I'm not even bothering to try at this point, he's just going to immediately obliterate me.

 

I took on that previous boss (Chernobog?), but it required a full tray of purples and greens, and I STILL came out of it at about 2% health.

 

It's why I wondered what people experienced with the class do.

[ZorkNemesis]

It's heavily dependent on the build and what happens in those cases often comes down to what tools that character has.  Generally though, big opening damage and constant repositioning to stay out of danger is the way to go.  Some examples from my own kits:

 

Archery/Energy/Mace often has me abusing my absurd range bonuses from Boost Range and Ranged Shot so I do everything I can to stay far away from the tough targets (Combat Jumping helps with rapid repositioning).  Explosive Arrow and Mace Beam Volley both cause knockdowns for some temporary mitigation and I use the Spiderlings as a back line in the event things do reach me.  Power Thrust is also a good tool for getting a boss out of my face with the excessive knockback that only the biggest foes resist.

 

Archery/Plant/Soul lacks the similar range of /Energy but Vines is a fantastic tool for locking everything in place while I deliver my Rain of Arrows.  Spore Cloud on a tough foe can weaken it a fair bit while Soul Tentacles can also make things a little harder to hit me.  More CJ jousting to stay at range though.

 

Pistols/Electric/Electric I run as a melee build.  Spring Attack, Lightning Clap and Thunder Strike all have AoE KD so I can keep most mobs semi incapacitated, plus Hail of Bullets has a nice defense buff.  Shocking Grasp and Shocking Bolt are kitted with Lockdown Procs so I can easily Mag 10 Hold a target if needed; very few bosses resist that much.

 

Sonic/Ninja/Fire relies heavily on being a Blasttroller and being able to shut a group down to pick them off in smaller numbers.  Siren's Song followed up with Blinding Powder can sleep bosses and knock out most of the crowd.  Dreadful Wail stuns most of the survivors while Choking Powder and Cinders can also Mag 10 Hold with procs.  Bonfire also helps by creating a knockdown patch.  Unfortunately Smoke Flash doesn't seem to function correctly, it doesn't Placatte affected foes last I knew, so I don't have it.  Would be a nice tool for escaping a sticky spot though, or setting up a stronger Wail with its -Res.

 

Fire/Dark/Fire is sort of screwed.  Other than Bonfire causing a KD patch and Touch of the Beyond letting me fear a single mob, he ultimately has to rely on big damage to survive which is made a fair bit harder by Soul Drain requiring getting close.  Dark Pit can help by stunning a group before draining, but with very little extra mitigation it comes down to what survives Inferno and whether I can kite safely at times.  To help counter the lack of mitigation, Soul Drain has an Avalance KD proc in it while Fire Ball has the Overwhelming Force KD proc, allowing two big AoEs to also floor the mobs I fight.  Soul Drain also has Fury of the Gladiator -Res for bonus damage.

 

On the Controller side

 

Electric/Storm/Leviathan relies heavily on knockdowns, pets and end drains.  My general game plan is to constantly throw tornadoes, thunder clouds, and water spouts at everything while also draining all of their endurance with Static Field and Conductive Aura.  Generally only stronger EBs and AVs won't be drained but with enough time everything typically can't fight back with all the KDs and lack of endurance.

 

Plant/Time/Psi is capable of considerable self-buffing.  With Hasten and Chrono Shift, Farsight is effectively permanent while Time's Juncture works the opposite direction resulting in very high evasion.  Carrion Vines are immensely powerful and spawn multiple targets drawing away enemy attacks, Distortion Field also helps keep things close to the vines.  Seeds of Confusion also turn everything against the strongest foes while causing utter chaos to begin with.  Additionally /Time gives me an extra Hold, allowing for Mag 9 when combined with Strangler and Vines (or 10 if the target is also Delayed).  /Psi also gives me a click status protection to let me dodge a few mezzes myself.

[Omega Force]

This struggle is what drove the creation of Sentinels.  As the others have said, use your controls.  You can't one-shot mez a boss, but you could mez a minion while you go ham on the other.  Chug inspirations, they're not just for decoration.  I'm not sure if the KR arc made it off the Beta server on live, but it sounds like it was overtuned like they did with Praetoria.  What is your primary and secondary?

[Ultimo]

My usual strategy has been to use Combat Jumping to do flybys.  I will start out of range, then leap past, firing as I go, and land out of range again.  Trouble is, the enemy gets to shoot me as I pass, too.  Bosses and the like will frequently do half or more of my health in one shot, so it makes it difficult to survive when my best shots will do only a tenth of theirs.

 

I know I can use inspirations, but as I said before, I don't think it should be necessary to use them, as not every class has to.  It suggests an imbalance to me (though, the game has been around a long, long time, so what do I know, lol).

 

Anyway, I appreciate the advice and thoughts.

[DreadShinobi]

9 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I know I can use inspirations, but as I said before, I don't think it should be necessary to use them, as not every class has to.  It suggests an imbalance to me (though, the game has been around a long, long time, so what do I know, lol).

This was my primary argument when RoP was adjusted. I don't argue that it shouldn't have been looked at, but the reason it is valuable in the way it is, is because it reduces insp tax disparity between archetypes. The mez system as a whole is outdated and would unfortunately require developer attention that is beyond what can be expected of a volunteer staff to overhaul. Challenges that most enemy factions present are noticeable by some archetypes and otherwise largely ignored by most melee archetypes due to their inherent protections. IMO, you havent experience the uniqueness of each enemy faction until you have played a blaster.

[huang3721]

18 hours ago, Ultimo said:

My usual strategy has been to use Combat Jumping to do flybys.  I will start out of range, then leap past, firing as I go, and land out of range again.

How about jumping sideways? I use jumping to add distance between an aggroed mob and my character. Get in range, open fire, then jump sideways. Wait for them to come, open fire, then jump again. Still, blasters are most effective when they are attacking, not jumping around. In my opinion, you should try Hover.

Also, a non-slotted blaster can withstand multiple melee attacks (3 or 4) from a boss before succumbing. Maybe you have set your difficulty level too high, or your build is inadequate for your current difficulty level. Either way, you need to rely more on kiting rather than a head-on attack. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by huang3721

[Ultimo]

1 hour ago, huang3721 said:

How about jumping sideways? I use jumping to add distance between an aggroed mob and my character. Get in range, open fire, then jump sideways. Wait for them to come, open fire, then jump again. Still, blasters are most effective when they are attacking, not jumping around. In my opinion, you should try Hover.

Also, a non-slotted blaster can withstand multiple melee attacks (3 or 4) from a boss before succumbing. Maybe you have set your difficulty level too high, or your build is inadequate for your current difficulty level. Either way, you need to rely more on kiting rather than a head-on attack. 

I use Hover on most of my ranged characters (Defenders and Sentinels, mainly), but it's not appropriate for this particular character (based on Reed Richards, who doesn't fly...).

 

I do also have a Fire/Fire Blaster, but his healing aura makes everything better.  He still takes damage like the new guy, but recovers fast enough to be able to stay in the fight.  He does have Hover.

[huang3721]

What I am trying to say is blasters should avoid jumping into the fray. Blasters are good at killing targets from a distance since most of their primaries are ranged attacks. Some secondary powers allow you to play a blaster like a scrapper but don't do that for all blasters. Otherwise, this might happen. 

 

On 7/11/2021 at 10:33 AM, Ultimo said:

get squashed before they can do much of anything

 

 

On 7/11/2021 at 10:33 AM, Ultimo said:

So, how do you Blaster/Controller pros deal with enemies like that?

 

To fight a boss, get in range, then start blasting. Try to maintain distance as best as you could. Unless the difficulty level is set too high, that boss will die relatively fast. 

 

My hunch is that you always play a tank, so you approach a mob like a tank, although you are playing a blaster at that time. Don't worry. Blaster's strategy is not hard to memorize. For a starter:

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Blaster_Strategy

 

[InvaderStych]

On 7/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, Ultimo said:

I can't afford all the bells and whistles.

 

Well, see, but you actually can.  Cruising the forums here with folks posting builds with total price tags in the Billions makes it seem daunting, but unless you're trying to kit out dozens of 50s there's plenty of inf to be had to build up that first fully kitted, T4 IncarnateMonster.  From there inf (and more importantly high value drops like converters/catalysts) falls like Rain on the Plain In Spain any time that Monster comes out to play.

 

I also recently came to Blasters from the world of Melee, and I leveled my first blaster on SOs and key IO Globals + the ATO sets, then rounded him out at 50 with a couple respecs until I had him tuned to taste.  Just adding the two +3%def pieces to an SO build can make a huge difference.  Get yourself a Panacea and a Power Transfer and you're that much further ahead of the SO game as well.

 

Run content that nets you Merits (some arcs give out surprisingly large quantities); there are many ways to reliably turn 100 merits into approximately 20-25Mil.  No farming needed.  Heck, are emails cross-server?  If not, and you're on Excelsior PM me your in-game global, I'm no EbilMarketeer, but I bet I got ~50mil sitting around someplace you can have if you're in need of some Fake Money Units.

 

 

On 7/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, Ultimo said:

My Blaster is only L20 now, but he has GREAT difficulty even taking on three minions, let alone bosses.

 

Veles and Cherborg are pretty tough fights @ that level.  I've run a few of my scrappers through those fights in-level and they're not easy.  I wouldn't use that as a metric for how your blaster is doing at lvl20.  I don't recall trying to solo this arc with anything but melee toons. 

 

It took a moment for me to adjust to the "No, you cannot FaceTank with this character" tactical change.  Really there seem to be two approaches. Hover-Blast to maintain range at all (or most) times, or Constant Movement Is Life.  Though I suppose the Hover strategy also involves lots of movement. The AI is easily confused by fast moving targets; sometimes when you're kiting they'll waste precious seconds trying to get into melee range, or you can move into melee after tricking them into using their (often less dangerous) ranged attacks.

 

If you mentioned what sets we're talking about here, I can't seem to find it in the scroll.  But coming from lots of melee, may I suggest giving Martial Combat a try? Inner Will and Reaction Time are excellent mitigation and it has a "Scrapper With Blasts" feel.

 

Hmm... Now that I think about it Reaction Time is almost like Blaster Training Wheels.  It slows down all of the mobs, effectively making kiting easier to learn. 🤣

 

That is not a diss, my Fire/MC is still the "fun factor" metric by which I measure anything I've rolled since it's creation. 😄

Edited July 17, 2021 by InvaderStych

[Riverdusk]

Controllers can be very tanky depending on the powers.  My illusion/dark hardly ever gets touched with all its pets plus even has decent defense and resistances as well as a bunch of -tohit debuffs flying around. Also has near perma status protection with the psi epic pool mez protection power. 

 

/Time is almost like having an armor secondary.

 

/Traps is another amazing one, good defense and status protection.

 

That is on top of the ability to lock things down that the control side has.   I've never had surviving issues with controllers, it is more about it just being a bit slow on the killing side (especially some sets).

 

Blasters yeah, I find them a bit challenging as well, although of course much better than they used to be.

[carroto]

It really depends on the powersets on the specific character.  There are quite a few I don't tend to play on squishies because they don't provide adequate means to deal with mezzes and tough bosses.  I've played Sonic Resonance quite a bit because it offers mez protection.  On my Blasters I tend to go Hover for the protection it offers.

 

Mez-lock can be a real problem sometimes.  Getting mezzed over and over with little if any break to act in between.  Slows are a big help there.  If I have those my general approach is to open with the Nem Staff, then stack as many slows as I can.  If the boss gets up and mezzes me, at least I'll have some time after it wears off before it can apply another (usually).

 

KB can be a big help too.  Like I said, I usually choose either a primary or secondary that has some form of control I can use to deal with difficult bosses, the only exception being if I'm building something primarily for teams.

 

For Controllers I tend to either open with Nem Staff, or apply a hold while ducking behind something in the environment, only popping back out to double-stack the hold.  It's usually some kinds of tricks like that on squishies.  Throwing down caltrops, or a rain power to scatter and keep mobs from closing to melee.  Slow the mobs.  Confuses are the best.  Kite and joust (Combat Jumping is the best here).

 

Then there are the Mary Sues that can't be controlled in any way.  Annoying and boring, just pop a bunch of purples and reds (don't forget the reds), hold your nose, and get it done.

 

On top of that I tend to get certain key IOs if I can.  The two +3% def IOs aren't that hard to get, and along with Combat Jumping and Stealth (or similar) means you'll have roughly 10% defense to all.  Add a single small purple and it's not a lot of protection but it's enough to cause the occasional miss.  Add that to the other tactics and I've found that it's enough to handle a lot of battles without feeling like I'm cheating.  I still take damage and have to do things right to win, but it gives me a little extra edge when I need it, and only needing one small purple means my inspiration tray goes a long way.

 

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot to mention, I almost always focus on strong hitpoint recovery in some form as well.  Blasters have their sustains, so they're pretty well covered there.  Many Controller and Corruptor Secondaries have a heal of some sort.

 

As I said I like Sonic Resonance but it has no heal.  I've solved that in various ways.  Pairing it with Dark Blast (which has a heal), putting a bunch of +heal procs in the single-target blasts, building for as much +regen as possible, along with some form of hard/soft control to limit incoming damage.  Things like that.  If you  don't have strong control (and often even if you do), you need good health recovery.

 

As I said at the start, I consider all of these things when picking my power sets.  If I can't meet the requirements for survivability, it won't get built.

Edited July 19, 2021 by carroto

[Doomguide2005]

Combat Jumping + Hurdle you can now jump backwards firing and land around a corner.  Great for pulling.

 

That t1 Immobilize of blaster secondaries.  Yes they still fire back but you can move and take cover and decide what to do next.  

 

Air Superiority-> very reliable knock up.  Takes one target out of the picture.  Recharges fast enough to keep one foe out of commission while you deal with others.  My Empath would use her Cosmic Burst to get one boss stunned and use Air Sup to keep the other boss helpless while CB wore the first into defeat.  That's with defender scale damage not blaster vs "Invincible" notoriety Cimeroran mobs.

 

Use slows and patches with Afraid and Avoid mechanics.  Mobs running away aren't attacking so yes you silly hero shoot them in the back while they're running away ... you're only arresting them after all.

 

Many targeted AoEs can be used around a corner.  Many of Earth controls powers work this way.

 

Stealth.  Attack first against oblivious foes.

 

More specific ideas require knowing what sets are in use.

[Snarky]

I am a fan of building defenses onto a Blaster.  Two of my favorite sets are Dark and Ice.  Ice is fully ranged.  At softcap range Def you can screw with bosses a long time.  Dark has -to hit debuff all over it.  If you focus on that one boss that wont go down easy he probably cant hit you for squat either.

[Triumphant]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:19 AM, Ultimo said:

It's all I use.  I can't afford all the bells and whistles.

 

I've just been wondering.  My Blaster is only L20 now, but he has GREAT difficulty even taking on three minions, let alone bosses.  I'm supposed to take on Veles in that KR mission line, but I'm not even bothering to try at this point, he's just going to immediately obliterate me.

 

I took on that previous boss (Chernobog?), but it required a full tray of purples and greens, and I STILL came out of it at about 2% health.

 

It's why I wondered what people experienced with the class do.

 

Veles and his Death Knight can be particularly challenging to take down, so try not to get too discouraged by that.  I've defeated Veles multiple times, but I've been defeated by him even more times than that.  Just keep trying, mix up your strategies, and keep reading the wiki and threads about character building, etc.

 

This game is odd in that it takes a lot, initially, to learn how all the moving parts fit together and how to leverage them in play )I played for months before I really figure out how to play effectively).  But, once you do that, the game becomes surprisingly easy in all but a handful of cases.

[Ultimo]

Ya, Veles has been tough on some of my characters (Defenders and especially Controllers, since he's immune to controls, which are the Controller's only defense).  My Tankers had no real trouble with him, and the Brutes did pretty well... but I've been playing Tankers since time immemorial, and know what I'm doing there.

 

Blasters, not so much.

[Vengeful Arrow]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:38 AM, Ultimo said:

Ya, Veles has been tough on some of my characters (Defenders and especially Controllers, since he's immune to controls, which are the Controller's only defense).  My Tankers had no real trouble with him, and the Brutes did pretty well... but I've been playing Tankers since time immemorial, and know what I'm doing there.

 

Blasters, not so much.

What are your sets?  My old school main is an elec/elec blaster. I find that most blasters avoid some of their most useful tools because it "seems useless" if it's not damage or instant hold. This, at least, can be solved relatively cheap even if you don't kit out an entire character. Even at low levels my guy has tesla cage, a single target hold, slotted with " lockdown: chance to hold". This means as long as I have that power, it has at least a chance to hold a boss every now and again with no stacking required.  Most regular bosses are only "immune" to the first application of a hold, not stacking or higher magnitude. Telling us your build helps people recommend little tweaks or strategies. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Vengeful Arrow

[Ultimo]

I have a couple of Blasters now.  One is Fire/Fire (based on Human Torch), the other is Beam Rifle/Atomic (based on Reed Richards).

[Snarky]

22 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

I have a couple of Blasters now.  One is Fire/Fire (based on Human Torch), the other is Beam Rifle/Atomic (based on Reed Richards).

That's Fantastic!

[Vengeful Arrow]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I have a couple of Blasters now.  One is Fire/Fire (based on Human Torch), the other is Beam Rifle/Atomic (based on Reed Richards).

So, with fire/fire, it's mostly kill or be killed. Aim and buildup or embrace( I forget what /fire gets) and then unleash everything on a spawn. If it's one hard target, same thing but with your snipe and then fireblast and then I would either lay rain of fire on top of them to make them scatter or hit them up with single target swords to try to kill them first. Either way even the worst EB's usually can't stand up too long to fire, even on SOs.  Now on DOs it's a slightly worst story but inspirations can help a lot. And with the full power snipe and blasts, they shouldn't have much left to them by the time they close the distance on you. If it's not happening that way, you need to lower the level to what fits your strategy. On my blaster it's gotta be a good hit for me to go down before the target one on one, or I have to be held...and he's electric. I haven't played beam or atomic at all since the game came back so I will have to look at those. 

[ZorkNemesis]

On 8/1/2021 at 10:20 PM, Vengeful Arrow said:

Aim and buildup or embrace( I forget what /fire gets)

 

/Fire gets plain old Build Up these days.

 

A tip for Fire/Fire is to take advantage of knockdown procs to help any sort of mitigation you can.  Overwhelming Force or Ragnarok procs (as well as Might of the Empire before level 22) in Fireball and/or Breath of Fire can really help since enemies on their asses don't hit back.  They won't always go off, but temporarily incapacitating two or three foes per group is still a net positive.  Also consider the Avalance proc for Fire Sword Circle for the same reason (not in Burn though, it doubles up on Burn for some reason and launches foes away which is not helpful for Burn's damage, though it could turn the power into a "get off me" move if that's something you'd want).

[Ultimo]

On 8/1/2021 at 8:03 PM, Snarky said:

That's Fantastic!

I see what you did there...

😎