What about a Redside week... month... whatever?

[Sunsette]

Honestly, I apologize for starting up with my "yeah not a big red side fan". It was off-topic, I knew it was off-topic, I was talking just to talk but I was part of kind of an avalanche of negativity. 

 

I genuinely think having a regular planning thing is a great idea for increased interest and community-building and I wish the best to it. The only thing I think is genuinely not a good idea would be the suggestion in the middle about altering task forces but no one really ran with that. Taking pictures and all that, find a jazzy name, I'll try to make a logo as my way of apology (though I'm kinda amateurish) if someone wants?

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sunsette

[nihilii]

On 7/13/2021 at 4:21 AM, Ghost said:

 No incentive will make someone play it, and stick with it.

I find this train of thought questionable. AE farms aren't exactly thrilling content either, yet plenty partake in it. *Clearly* there is a level of incentives sufficient to direct a large portion of the playerbase towards content.

Example: double XP and merits for redside content for a month, see how it goes. Blueside players who prefer playing heroes lose nothing, their rewards are still the same.

[Ghost]

26 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I find this train of thought questionable. AE farms aren't exactly thrilling content either, yet plenty partake in it. *Clearly* there is a level of incentives sufficient to direct a large portion of the playerbase towards content.

Example: double XP and merits for redside content for a month, see how it goes. Blueside players who prefer playing heroes lose nothing, their rewards are still the same.

 

AE Farms are a means to an end - want super quick levels/influence, you farm.

Most are sitters - meaning they are not playing, but sitting and doing other things.

Once you achieve what you want, you either play the game, make a new character or get bored and quit.

 

Offer something to entice players to a side they aren't interested in playing (obviously, or they already would be).

Once they get the reward, they will go back to blue.  Is that what you're looking for? A one day surge in numbers, followed by a complete drop off?  What's the benefit of that?

 

You want people to play redside?

Be available for them!!!

 

When you see someone broadcast that they are looking for a team - drop whatever you are doing and join them.

Pick a day or two a week, where most villains agree to be on standby to help/play with anyone looking for a team on redside - commit to it.  Advertise it.

Sure you may delay whatever you were working on - but what's more important to you?  Growing redside, or getting badge number 1312?  

How many people would have stuck with red if they had someone to play with from the beginning?  

Why do you think players leave other shards and go to Excelsior? They want to play with other people.

Instead, red side players sit in the corner trying to figure out ways to lure players over to the dark side, while completely ignoring those that actually wander over there. 

How many of the new players you entice over with rewards will stick around when they find themselves standing alone with no teammates? Day after day.

  

I played villain for one month.  I gave it a shot.

Found exactly one team, and then spent the rest of the time running around solo - something I hate doing.

Would I have stayed had any of the higher levels invited me, of joined me? Probably not - I don't enjoy being the bad girl/guy.

But I'm positive others would have stayed.

 

Stop looking for the quick fix to low villain count, and work on actually growing the community - one lonely player at a time!  

  

Edited July 14, 2021 by Ghost

[Snarky]

23 minutes ago, Ghost said:

 

 

Stop looking for the quick fix to low villain count, and work on actually growing the community - one lonely player at a time!  

  

While I do not agree with most of this thread (not just post, the whole damn thread) this sentence stands out.  The goal of the thread, admirable, is of course to increase activity Redside.

 

How to do this?  ...  I have no good ideas.  Make it fun?  Some people hate it.  Increase the rewards?  To what?  Farm levels?  Increase the power?  With people already screaming power creep?  

 

But in the end (if it succeeds in any way) the reason will be the above statement.  Increase the number of players.  So, kidnap a few people and strap them to computers forcing them to play City of Villains.  DO YOUR PART!

[nihilii]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

You want people to play redside?

Nah, I just want to challenge your claim incentives don't matter.

I think you're building a rationalisation to separate AE farms and villain content that is as elaborate as it is arbitrary.

There's yet another hole in your logic (to me). If incentives don't matter, then it shouldn't hurt any to double XP/merits on villain side for a month and see what changes we see, if any.

If there's a significant uptick in villain population, then this might suggest incentives do matter and that we can even the populations through such tweaks. At which point a conversation on *whether* tweaking that distribution is desirable or not, could be had.

If there's no change in villain population, then your theory would be proven right. No need for further discussion.

Win/win.

[Apparition]

I know a whole host of people that don't like Rikti mothership raids, but did a ton of them when the Vanguard merits to reward merits ratio was still ten to one.  As soon as it was bumped up to thirty to one, they stopped as they no longer deemed it worthwhile and haven't done one since.  Rewards and incentives matter.

 

If you really want to increase red side population, the only thing that will work (IMO), is to double the reward merits for everything red side (including the red side WSTs, effectively quadrupling them).

Edited July 14, 2021 by Apparition

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

Nah, I just want to challenge your claim incentives don't matter.

 

 

Of course you do.

Why actually come up with solutions for red side populations, when we can argue about my take on incentives.

 

Ok, Ill rephrase what I said.

Incentives are not a long term solution for a problem.

Are you looking for players, or a once a month bump in the numbers?  

If players are only doing something for an incentive, they will only do it for that incentive

 

Are there any weeklies on red side?

Of course there are.  Every week, and they do nothing to raise population.  

 

Any red side exclusives like badges or patron powers?

Yes.  Players quickly jump over and spend roughly one hour a month getting what they want, and then returning to blue.  

 

 

I tried red.  I didn't bash it.  I didn't say it sucked.

I offered up one solution, that I think would help.

What have you done?

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Ghost

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

Why actually come up with solutions for red side populations, when we can argue about my take on incentives.

I mean... You can scroll up and see this is literally what I came here to do, and hence why I selectively quoted a part of your post. Two liners reply, that's it. It is your choice to go on a full rant in answer, and to directly ask me unrelated questions.

 

Especially after your previous "only respond if you agree with me" snark directed at OP, hmm? 😉

But OK, you want me to talk about your topic of choice. I will say you put forward an adequate counterpoint to your own thesis.

If incentives make players move, then incentives are a long term solution to the problem.

Incentives are not temporary by nature. They can last forever. The AE offers permanent incentives. The AE successfully attracts people to content that is objectively (or pretty close to it) lower quality and more repetitive than normal.

There is no reason to stop a working incentive program. A trial period does not imply it cannot be renewed. Quite the contrary. Once a trial has proven effective, there could be justification to make it permanent.

Provided the community decides this is a worthy goal, and the devs agree. Which is another can of worms entirely.

Edited July 14, 2021 by nihilii

[Seed22]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:21 PM, Ghost said:

I think people need to stop tying to find ways to drag others kicking and screaming to red side.

Those that want to play red side, will.  No incentive will make someone play it, and stick with it.

 

I tried it for about a month, and just didn’t like the idea behind being a villain.

 

if you enjoy it, play it and be happy the option is available.

I don’t think he’a forcing anyone here, it’s just a thought. Same can be applied to people who don’t want to be red. Don’t like it? Great. No one’s gonna force your hand. But please PLEASE stop coming onto these suggestions or ideas to try and shut them down like this. Simply…move on.

[Seed22]

20 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

I am (as almost always) puzzled by the number of people who read a suggestion as some kind of enforced activity, as if I'd suggested shutting down Blueside for a week or month, or requiring players to play only Redside, or something. This is the third or fourth time I've posted something like, "Hey, why don't we..." as a suggestion and been severely taken to task for trying to tell players they have to do something they don't wanna.

 

As much as I love this community, some of its members have... reading comprehension as narrow as the phone screen they're probably reading it on.

So much this. It’s damn annoying.

[Seed22]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

 

Of course you do.

Why actually come up with solutions for red side populations, when we can argue about my take on incentives.

 

Ok, Ill rephrase what I said.

Incentives are not a long term solution for a problem.

Are you looking for players, or a once a month bump in the numbers?  

If players are only doing something for an incentive, they will only do it for that incentive

 

Are there any weeklies on red side?

Of course there are.  Every week, and they do nothing to raise population.  

 

Any red side exclusives like badges or patron powers?

Yes.  Players quickly jump over and spend roughly one hour a month getting what they want, and then returning to blue.  

 

 

I tried red.  I didn't bash it.  I didn't say it sucked.

I offered up one solution, that I think would help.

What have you done?

 

 

Where are you getting this “Players hop over for X” info? Especially that once a month thing. Is that what you do? 

[Ghost]

32 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Where are you getting this “Players hop over for X” info? Especially that once a month thing. Is that what you 

You’ve obviously read only bits and pieces of this thread.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Ghost

[Ghost]

 

You guys win.

I give up.

You are correct Seed22 - I did smart off in my first post, out of frustration.  I shouldn't have done that.

Unfortunately, I tried to correct the course I was on, and like typically happens with these threads, it wasn't allowed.

 

Good luck with your endeavors to increase red side population.

My suggestion is to try and engage in a meaningful discussion with both former red players, and those who have never tried it.  A discussion in which people actually listen to one another, instead of everyone getting defensive and ending up attacking each other.

 

 

 

I'm out.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seed22]

14 minutes ago, Ghost said:

 

You guys win.

I give up.

You are correct Seed22 - I did smart off in my first post, out of frustration.  I shouldn't have done that.

Unfortunately, I tried to correct the course I was on, and like typically happens with these threads, it wasn't allowed.

 

Good luck with your endeavors to increase red side population.

My suggestion is to try and engage in a meaningful discussion with both former red players, and those who have never tried it.  A discussion in which people actually listen to one another, instead of everyone getting defensive and ending up attacking each other.

 

 

 

I'm out.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that sucks, look chief we didnt mean to ward you off the thread, oh and for your info I read the whole thread.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Seed22

[UltraAlt]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:14 PM, DoctorDitko said:

OK, on to suggestions: What you need is a charismatic team leader who knows Redside backwards and forwards.

 

I think you have been in for forums long enough to know that the "Red side" players really don't want any help.

Their solution is to force others to play with them or give themselves some advantage for playing the "red side".

 

They want to be villians. Let them enjoy being what it means to be a villain.

 

[UltraAlt]

On 7/12/2021 at 8:49 PM, Shenanigunner said:

So how about a Red week or month

 

No.

You want to be a villain, then play a villain.

You are on your own.

 

On 7/12/2021 at 8:49 PM, Shenanigunner said:

where all the heroes hang up their capes for a vacation and as we get as much of the community as possible to get their Villain ya-yas out?

 

We all get to play the game the way that we enjoy playing it.

There are apparently no "villain ya-yas" to get out or they would be gaming on the villain side.

 

On 7/12/2021 at 8:49 PM, Shenanigunner said:

How about "Be Bad Week," from Miller time on Friday the 23rd until we all come to our senses Sunday night the 1st?

 

No.

 

[Shenanigunner]

13 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

They want to be villians. Let them enjoy being what it means to be a villain.

 

9 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

We all get to play the game the way that we enjoy playing it.

 

And we have a new record for "grim, humorless player mindset."

 

You even quoted the funny bits and then sternly thumped the table over them. Sheesh.

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

And we have a new record for "grim, humorless player mindset."

 

You even quoted the funny bits and then sternly thumped the table over them. Sheesh.

 

Sorry. 

Was mugged by villains - more than once (more than 3 or 4 times) when I tried to suggest that they work together to get more people to game with.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:14 PM, Shenanigunner said:

I just kinda wonder how many players have never really tried it, because of all the trash talk

 

Well, I was part of the CoV Beta. This is from about 5 minutes before the CoV beta server shutdown.

I had my level 50 Villain before the sunset. Ran other villains.

I have 4 villians on Torchbearer.

 

I just don't enjoy the content.

Don't really feel the need to play a villain. Really played it more before the sunset because I paid for it .. and, mainly bought it, so I could have access to a superhero base.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

On 7/13/2021 at 3:36 AM, Take One said:

This might be accomplished by having the WST fluctuate between Red-side and Blue-side with one neutral option each week, instead of what we have now.

So week one, we get a blue TF and a co-op one, week two we get a red SF and a co-op one. And so on.

 

Sure. Why not do something to cater to what is generally never over 1/3 and mostly less than 1/4 of the population that is on at any given time?

 

On 7/13/2021 at 6:14 PM, Dazl said:

One way you could draw more people red and gold side is to up the rewards over blue side. More influence, merits and experience  might incentivize more people to play there.

 

No mechanic should be added to punish the majority of players (those that play heroes) or grant favor to the minority that want to commit crime.

(Gold side, go head and continue on with whatever that is that you all do in that alternate reality.... most of your content has been merged into co-op content anyway.)

 

The game shouldn't try to force heroes to commit crimes (run villain content) in order to gain an advantage, but, apparently, there are some players that feel that they need to get their end-game powers from supervillain mentors. - so, apparently, there was some leaning in that direction by the DEVs before the sunset.

 

On 7/13/2021 at 5:00 PM, Shenanigunner said:

you've just listened to all the trash talk

 

Okay. I'm pretty sure that you have brought up this "trash talk" multiple times.

Can you please post what this "trash talk" is that you have been seeing?

(at least, I'm assuming the "trash talk" is acceptable enough to post on the forums and wasn't delete by the Moderators before I read it).

[Take One]

1 minute ago, UltraAlt said:

Why not do something to cater to what is generally never over 1/3 and mostly less than 1/4 of the population that is on at any given time?

 

It's the same population. We're all players here. Many people play both sides.

[Darmian]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:14 PM, Dazl said:

One way you could draw more people red and gold side is to up the rewards over blue side. More influence, merits and experience  might incentivize more people to play there

I main Gold side.  Love the place.  My main is a Gold who never left.  And I know it's quiet over there.  However, you simply cannot up the rewards without outlevelling the content almost immediately. Nova Praetoria to Imperial City to Neutropolis runs 1 to 20, and there's a fair chunk of content there. Yes it's available via ouro, but part of the draw (for this player at least) are the choices you make, and ouro loses a lot of that. Small teams can work there, our SG has them, the Hounds of Love SG run teams in Praet, but you can't just up rewards, merits whatever without bypassing the content.  

 

If I had a say (which I don't) I'd slide the levels in Praetoria Proper up to 25 at least and leave the content mostly as is, move First Ward to 25 to 35 and Night Ward 35 to 45. 

 

A pet peeve of mine is seeing a message from a newb asking how to get out of Praetoria. So far I have refrained from what I want to say, which is make a new character.  If you're not liking the story then it's not for you. Find your sweet spot and have fun there. Hell, it might even be base building or Hellion punting.  

 

And I've hijacked this thread long enough.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Darmian

[Glorious]

What the hell is even going on in this thread?

 

OP: Hey, why don't we meet up and play some redside con-

Others: Redschide content? Nooo, I hate redschide!

OP: Well, maybe this isn't for you. I'm just trying to gather a few-

Others: Nooo, you can't forche me! I refusche! Here'sch fifty paragraphsch of me telling you why I refusche!

 

I think a "Be Bad Week" sounds great, OP. A week every month, where we (*gasp* no, not you! Heavens, no! We -- the sometimes  -- redside players) put some extra effort into forming teams and events redside instead of blue. Unfortunately, I play during EU-times, but I'm still willing to do my part.

[Hew]

Excelsior redside team lfm, zero takers. 🙂 418 am EST

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Take One said:

It's the same population. We're all players here. Many people play both sides.

 

I don't think you understand what I'm telling you.

"Many" is a nebulous term. You could say that "many" game on Reunion. There aren't a couple, a few, or several players that game on Reunion. There are "many". But Reunion is still the least populated server.

The villain side is hardly ever over 1/3 of the population on any given server at any given time. (I have seen rares spikes on the least populated servers).

The villain population is under (often well under) 25% of the population any given server most of the time.

 

Look for yourself ::

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/status/