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Buckets of Spoilers! Lore Galore!


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Folks, I'd like to know more about the game and share various spoilers that exist after playing through the content of this great game in order to better understand its story and lore. I am looking to contain this discussion to anything found in game - if it's in the Lore AMAs, I don't consider it canon. It should go without saying, but it is highly likely that this thread will contain spoilers, so please use the spoiler button when discussing something other players may not have finished yet. That being said I have a few bullet points, but I would like your help adding others. If you have an interest and provide some spoilers, I will update this post and credit it to the original poster:

 

After completing the Rikti War Zone story arcs and the final task force from Lady Grey, I understand the following:

Spoiler

 

  • (Big thanks to @GastlyGibus! The Rikti are from another dimension and are descendants of humans - They were a peaceful race that did not worship any deities (because they exterminated them all in their dimension). Nemesis sent automaton replicas of the Freedom Phalanx to Rikti Earth to cause havoc and destruction and provoke a war between the Rikti and humanity, with the intention of stopping them and being the savior of earth. Nemesis didn't realize how powerful the Rikti counter-attack would be, though, and the mission was a massive failure that Nemesis hid from even his own soldiers. Hroh'Dtohz learns of the deception, but is too invested in the war effort to just give it up. He leads the Restructurist faction who, presumably, want to turn Rikti society from a largely peaceful path to one of imperialism and conquest. His goal is to conquer earth and wipe away the truth of the war so he can return to the Rikti homeworld as a hero who saved his society.. The Omega Team closed off the portal that the invasion was using through magic force. After the war, there were two distinct factions; 'the Traditionalists' and 'the Restructurists'. The former are pacifists and are open to other cultures and people (think the Lost), and the latter are the militant portion of their society and are led by the Lineage of War.
  • The Hydra were kidnapped by the Rikti from their home dimension to guard underground bases after the first Rikti Invasion. You can learn more about this in Tina MacIntyre's missions (even through the Ouroboros options, from the mission chain that gives the Multidimensional badge, though you don't actually have to finish the chain to get the badge, so many people don't) (Credit to @Lazarillo)
  • The Lost are human that were imbued with Rikti DNA. There has been a cure discovered and players provide it in the early portion of the game to Lost enemies.

 

 

 

Croatoa is a magical destination. I played through all of the content, but I couldn't tell you what the zone or story was about besides the Sleepy Hollow vibe. 

Spoiler

Earlier, the Red Caps performed some ritual that had Eochai running around Paragon during Halloween. (Referenced in an explore badge in Atlas Park.) Whether related to that or not (not sure if explicitly stated,) the town north of Paragon known as Salamanca - aka Croatoa (a nod to the missing Roanoake colony) - currently has all sorts of monsters showing up. It's even stated that many of them were the town's residents. It's revealed in the first mission from Skipper Legrange (end of the first contact's arc, before you get Skipper as a contact) that the ghosts you were sent to investigate weren't spirits that didn't pass on, but that the town was being pulled into the spirit world. There are two sides to this - the Red Caps and fir Bolg (pumpkin pie filling) vs the Tuatha and the Red Caps. The Red Caps are trying to perpetuate the war between the Tuatha and fir Bolg (and those warriors keep resurrecting and fighting. More pain for the Red Caps to enjoy.) End goal seems to be permanently making Salmanca into Croatoa. (Credit to @Greycat).

 

Another post from @Crasical found that: Wayback in the Wayback, (Somewhere between Prehistory and the 1st century, we'll say) in ancient mythic Ireland the ancient tribes of the Fir Bolg, the natives of the island, did battle with the invading Tuatha de Dannan. This battle was long, vicious, and bloody, which absolutely delighted the native Irish fey, the Redcaps. The Fir Bolg eventually lost, and fled across the ocean. The Redcaps, annoyed that the fun was over, decided to kidnap a contingent of the Tuatha to chase down the Fir Bolg. 

 

Fast forward to 1588, America, Roanoke Colony. The Fir Bolg stumble out of the woods, exhausted and hungry. (Questions about the distance traveled and the many years intervening can be answered with 'The Redcaps did it'. Malicious fey are malicious.) The colonists, of course, happily provide the strangers with food and rest. 

 

Cue the redcaps showing up with their attack dogs, the Tuatha. They rip the whole Roanoke colony into 'The Spirit World', the fey realms, whatever you wanna call it, and proceed to massacre the colony. All the males killed, the women and Firbolgs sent running through the spirit world. They spend the next 400 years torturing and tormenting the firbolg and the women of Roanoke, The Roanoke women eventually take up spellcasting, learning magic to help them survive in the spirit realm (arcadia, fey realms). It's not clear if the Firbolg and Tuatha were transformed into monsters by the redcaps during this period, or later? I'd assumed that the Firbolg at least had human forms up until the Roanoke colony is disappeared, it kind of stretches my suspension of disbelief that the colonists would have taken pity on a tribe of giant pumpkin scarecrows.

 

400+ years pass, setting to modern time. Paragon City is a nexus for powerful magic, and it attracts the Redcap's attention. They nab some Fir Bolgs (possibly transforming them now, this is the last point this could happen, chronologically) and shove them through doorways into Paragon city, and delight as the heroes hunt them down as monsters. This makes them so happy they decide they want to have some more fun: Dragging Salamanca into the spirit realm where they can have more carnage and suffering.

 

This sets up the zone as we see it: The Fir Bolg and Cabal are conspiring together to try and put together a genocide spell to delete the Redcaps entirely, the Tuatha are being tormented and used as attack dogs by the Redcaps, the spirits are just confused and terrified ghosts of Salamanca humans, and heroes are caught up in it

 

The Ouroboros is pretty thick with story, but I haven't honestly dug too deep in to it. I know that...

Spoiler

Mender Silos is Lord Nemesis from a different timeline and that another dude [Dream Doctor] is telling us not to trust the guy. I don't see much else besides "timey wimey" stuff happening with the story from there and it is likely that it won't be progressing any further due to the Battalion not making its way in to the game.

 

The Shivans are...

Spoiler

...pieces of a large galactic entity called Shiva that devours worlds a la 'Galactus.' Anything else about them that is important to the story?

 

Implicitly*, Shiva is the vanguard of the Battalion (or at least a portent within the timeline) per the Ouroboros introduction arcs.  Since I vaguely recall the A.M.A.s confirming this, I'mma consider that one full canon, personally.

 

* (Which, from my point of view, since most narrative content is delivered in the form of dialogue from Contacts, almost all of it is subject to potentially being false due to the possibility of them being Unreliable Narrators.  I mean, after all, some content is explicitly written with the Contact being -wrong- about the things they're saying, ie:  Early Primal Clockwork missions, where some Contacts incorrectly assume the Clockwork are robots.  HELL!  Even some of the in-game descriptions suffer from this, as I think at least one of the Primal Clockwork descriptions references that same incorrect assumption.) (Credit to @VileTerror)

 

The Faultline zone story arcs and background (Credit to @GastlyGibus again!)

Spoiler

The story we're given on both the wiki and in-game is that Faultline was originally known as the Overbrook Dam, until the evil villain Faultline destroyed the entire area with his nefarious earthquake devices, causing the area to be renamed Faultline in memory of the event.

 

You go to Faultline to talk to a man named Jim Temblor, who is looking for an old VHS tape of the final battle with the villain Faultline. You find out the Lost have it, and Arachnos is mixed up in it as well, for reasons unknown. You fight a Lost leader simply named "Kurse," you get the tape and find out Jim Temblor is the son of Faultline, trying to make peace with the past, being too young to have known of his father's evil.

 

You talk to Penelope Yin (before her induction to the Freedom Phalanx) to help save her dad. The Lost have kidnapped her dad for control over Penelope, and you find out she's an immensely powerful psychic who draws both the Lost and Clockwork to Faultline. What the Lost want with her is a mystery.

You then go to Doc Delilah, an archeologist trying to piece together everything, and she helps you find an old supergroup base with a better quality recording of the final battle. In it, you learn the truth: Faultline wasn't a villain, he was a hero who fell victim to another villain named Psi-Kurse, who used a special gadget called the "PsychoChronoMetron" to effectively rewrite history, using his psychic power to turn Faultline into a villain. The way the game describes it, the "PsychoChronoMetron" can "turn psychic energy into temporal energy," and with a powerful psychic, can be used to rewrite history as one sees fit. Whatever the wielder envisions will become reality, and so the villain Psi-Kurse used it to rewrite history and make it so that Faultline, his former nemesis, was his villain ally the whole time. Faultline, now a villain, then destroyed Overbrook, and since the event was "rewritten" by Psi-Kurse, Faultline's heroic deeds were nearly forgotten by everyone who didn't know him personally. Faultline went down in history as the evil villain who destroyed Overbrook, when in reality he was always a hero who fell victim to an evil scheme and was forced to become a villain in his last moments.

 

Finally, you learn the PsychoChronoMetron wasn't destroyed, and it's still out there. Arbiter Sands is in Faultline looking for it to deliver to Lord Recluse; "Kurse" is actually a Rikti-fied Psi-Kurse, who presumably wants to use it to bring about the Lost's vision of utopia; an Arachnos Night Widow named Nocturne is there, who wants the device for her own goals; Finally, the Sky Raiders are there too, who want it simply because it's valuable. You finally track down the device, beat all four groups, and save Penelope Yin one last time, who then uses her psychic powers to "rewrite" the history of the device so that it can never work or be built ever again.

 

Kheldian Lore:

Spoiler

@Memphis_Bill (from the legacy forums) thanks @Greycat!

So, who or what is a Kheldian?

This isn't a guide to how to slot a Kheldian, how to play one, or what powers are best. This is a guide for those curious about what a Kheldian is supposed to be "inside" the game world. This will (hopefully) answer questions on why they're here, what they are, what we know of their history and culture and why they can do the things they do.

What is a Kheldian?
In-game: An "Epic" (story driven) AT unlocked when you reach level 50. You can play a Peacebringer or Warshade, which have a few differences between them.

But what ARE they?

Kheldians are energy beings from outside our galaxy. There are three types you'll typically encounter in the City of Heroes universe - Peacebringers, Warshades, and Nictus.

Peacebringers: Regular Kheldians. The Peacebringers themselves are dedicated to hunting down the Nictus and destroying them for what they did to the Kheldian race (and still plan on.)

Warshades: "Redeemed" Nictus. These are Nictus that have had a change of heart, merging willingly with another instead of trying to force their way in. They fight alongside the Peacebringers against the Nictus, and have a sometimes uneasy truce with them.

Nictus: These are Kheldians who, when faced with the short native lifespan of the Kheldian people, turned to science and changed themselves. They feed off of life energy, and were at one point able to siphon the life force of the Kheldians from great distances.

From the Moonfire task force:
[ QUOTE ]

"I have told you that the Nictus once fed upon other Kheldians. What I did not tell you was how. The Nictus scientists developed a powerful energy transfer device that could rip away a Kheldian's life force, even at a distance of light years. This terrible weapon is the reason we Peacebringers have resolved to destroy all Nictus, wherever they may be."


[/ QUOTE ]

How long do Kheldians live?

The native lifespan of an unjoined Kheldian is 10 years. (Also from Moonfire.) Some have said the Nictus lifespan was reduced to 5 years, but I have yet to see a citation for that.

Kheldians can, however, merge with a host being. They aren't (typically) parasitic, though the Nictus often seem to try to take over the host's mind. With a continual chain of hosts, Kheldians are functionally immortal. (Shadowstar, the Warshade leader, has been around since ancient Egypt - 3000 to 5000 years.)

Nictus, after travelling across vast distances via Shadow Cysts, tend to be weak and use the cysts as "life support" if no host is ready. If the cyst is destroyed, the Nictus die off quickly, regardless of age.

Join?

Yes. Most beings are, for lack of a better description, like apartments to Kheldians. They can move in, if the host is willing (or very weak,) and they can seperate at will. They cannot be forced into someone (again, unless they're very weak, or "boosted" in as Arakhn tried to do.) And with enough willpower, the host can force them out. No 30 day notice needed.

The joining has advantages for both the host and the Kheldian.

The host gets power - typically seen in-game as attacks, shields and the like. In addition, it seems the host's natural lifespan is increased as well.

The Kheldian, as mentioned, stretches its lifespan when joined. In addition, in the future it can make an energy "copy" of any being it's been joined with in the past - such as the Nova and Dwarf forms of tri-form Kheldians. (So, yes, in the future a Kheldian from Paragon could merge with something else and change to Human form. Or alien, or catgirl, or whatever else it merged with.)

Forms?

Yes, forms. Being energy, Kheldians have no natural "shape." At best they appear as wisps of energy. OK, occasionally bad tempered, deadly wisps of energy, but wisps nontheless. You can see this if you run across a Shadow Cyst - it'll spout "puffs" called Unbound Nictus that will do their best to kill you. They're pretty good at it when they get going.

Most people that have seen a Kheldian are used to two non-host forms:

NOVA - also known as the "squid," this flying, tentacled form (no relation to the GSM) is based on a life form the Kheldians encountered that lived in a gas giant. It has inherent flying ability - not much to stand on in a gas giant, after all.

There are two "types" of Nova, the Bright and Dark Novas. They're essentially the same, and best thought of much like Human races - just because you're Asian, Caucasian, African or whatnot, you're still human. The Bright Novas are from the gas giant's upper reaches, and are called Mefnanim. The Dark Novas are from the depths of the same planet, and called Hulmanim. (In-game info.)

The Nova is also the key to how Kheldians (not Nictus) travel interstellar distances. More on this in a moment.

DWARF - also called the "lobster," this slow moving, tough form is derived from creatures that lived on the surface of a very dense dwarf star. It's very durable, and has an inherent self-teleport ability.

Once more, two "types" or "races." The White Dwarf form's "base" race are called the Kurukt, and lived on neutron stars. The Black Dwarf form is based on the Ruktur, who are said to have lived on the surface of a pulsar. Yes, we know how small those are. It's a comic-book world. (In-game info.)

Also, as mentioned, it appears the Kheld can make a copy of anything it's joined with previously. Judging from story arcs and in-game canon, it's an individual memory, not a racial memory. This also lets "all Human" or bi-form (Human/Dwarf, Human/Nova, even - though I haven't seen anyone play this - dwarf/nova) Khelds explain why they don't have "all" their forms. We don't know if there's a limit to the number of forms they can assume or not - it's possible a Kheldian could visit, say, three other planets, have five more species of hosts, and become octoform. (And you think you run out of slots NOW....)

Do they have any other effects on the hosts?

Well, other than glowing eyes, it's hard to say. Given this is in City of Heroes, people with odd colored skin (or made up color) aren't exactly rare. Given there's no consistent coloration, it's a safe bet it's part of a costume.

In addition, when forcably seperated at least, the two halves can "feel" the other's out there. We don't know if this happens with a willing seperation or not. (Lars Mendehlson, Absense of Shadows (WS) arc -

[ QUOTE ]

They used their magic, and they pulled us apart. They pulled Altered Umbra out of Lars Medelson, and trapped it in a crystal. The Kheldian is gone, and so is part of me. I can still feel Altered Umbra, my Kheldian half, out there somewhere. The rituals they're doing here will sever that connection forever. You've got to stop them! And you've got to rescue Altered Umbra! I know where he is. I wish I could help you, but I'm... I'm not Shadowcatcher anymore. I'm not sure I'm even lars Mendelson.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't know if this is from the magic, a side effect of forcable seperation, or if it "always" happens.

Who runs the Kheldians?

For the Nictus - Arakhn is the head cheese. On the other hand, Requiem says
[ QUOTE ]

When we are done and this world is under our rule, the Nictus will need a leader if we are to stave off the certain Peacebringer assault and quell the growing number of Warshades. If you show such weakness again, you shall not live to challenge me for the title.


[/ QUOTE ]
so it's hardly a "secure" position. Arakhn's also in charge of the Galaxy troops and Void Hunter mercenaries, while Requiem has the War Wolves.

For the Warshades, at least on Earth, Shadowstar seems to be the boss.

For the Peacebringers, the top one We know of is Sunstorm. He seems to have some clout, as Shadowstar refers to him when mentioning the truce between the Peacebringers and Warshades. Moonfire, however, seems to be the Kheld "PR" department and liason with other superheroes and hero groups.

As for a "ruling body," the Kheldians ARE extragalactic. While there may be a "ruling council" or something similar, the Peacebringers on earth don't seem to refer to them.

How long have they been here?

A very long time. As mentioned before, Shadowstar has been around since the time of ancient Egypt. The Nictus have definitely been here at least as long, given references to the Path of the Dark (using Shadow Seeds - essentially Nictus Cysts) being here since Ancient Rome - and they sounded pretty well established by that time. (The cyst in Ravenna mentioned in the PotD arc has been there since the 5th century AD.)

How long have the Peacebringers been here? We don't know. There are many scattered around the globe, some joined, some not - Sunstorm makes mention of them, as does Moonfire. They have chased the Nictus "across half the universe."

*** Spoiler *** Requiem planned to use Shadow Cysts ('Shadow Seeds') planted across the globe to take over and make Earth a new Nictus homeworld. During the Kheld arcs, you find a 70 year old map showing the plans. So they've been growing and planning this for quite some time. Why they've waited this long? Hard to say. My *guess* is that it's a combination of an increased Peacebringer presence and technology finally getting to a point where they can force Nictus into unwilling hosts en masse. (Moonfire TF.)

How did they GET here?

7/8/2011 - Edit! We have more info! The old answer - "Again - no definitive answer. Sorry to sound like a broken record. "

The following is pure conjecture on my part:
Nictus can travel great distances very quickly, by using a Shadow Cyst. The Cysts are made by (or from) weakened Nictus, and are quite tough. I could see a colony of Nictus, weakened, getting encysted and just being scattered like dandelion seeds, with one landing on Earth some millenia ago.

Creating Cysts requires three things - a weakened Nictus, the "right" crystals, and the "right" energy available. This leads to some of the speculation at the end of the guide - that the reason there was no earlier attempt to take over Earth is that we were too primitive until recently. Now, though, more cysts could be made and a takeover could be contemplated.

Now, I promised new information. Thanks to FloatingFatMan and (indirectly) Avatea for this!

Being energy, they can survive in space (see references to "longing for space" in various arcs.) And they are probably only limited by physics to what speed they can attain. Given the nearest star other than the sun is 4.2 light years away... well, it's all up to someone to get creative.

And someone did. Per the lore bible, in a Kheldian's Light form, they *can* get to light speed... at which point they do something very comic-book-y, switch to Dwarf, and basically create a wormhole. They point themselves in the direction they want to go, and use the mass at the destination to slow down. Or, for a direct quote...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan

Hi there Bill!

Yes, I did get some info from Avatea about Kheldian star travel, and I'm allowed to share it (as I did in a piece of fiction I wrote). Below is my exchange with Avatea.

Initial PM
Quote:
The question is, HOW did the Peacebringers get to Earth. More precisely, how do they travel across the galaxy? We know that the Nictus use Shadow Cyst crystals to travel anywhere instantly, but all we have on the Peacebringers is the very first issue comic that isn't considered canon by anyone.
Her first reply:
Quote:
To answer your question, they travel at lightspeed in their light form, straight out of our human lore encyclopaedia!
Obviously, a good answer but not really enough. Lightspeed is way too slow for star travel! So I mailed her back...

My second mail
Quote:
JUST lightspeed, or wayyy faster? Otherwise it'd like, take centuries to get anywhere and they only live for 8 years..
And the response was:

Quote:
Hold on! It seems more information has been found since I asked the question so I~m pasting the official information here for your usage:

Within the vacuum of space Kheldians use their light form to accelerate to light speed and then shift to their Kurukt or Ruktur form. Having sudden immense mass in this form while moving at the speed of light creates a time/space rip (a small wormhole) to form. The result is the Kheldian moving great distances at nearly instantaneous speeds. The only thing slowing them down is a carefully aimed vector toward single or series of massive gravitational bodies. This technique is used to leap frog between star systems with the only notable amount of time expended being the period of acceleration to light speed and subsequent deceleration at the destination point.
This fit in perfectly for me, as I'd already postulated that they must be able to open some kind of wormhole to jump from star to star, but it does raise the question of how they got to the Kurukt/Ruktur stars beforehand. I didn't ask that particular question as I felt I'd pushed my luck a little bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if they turn out to come from the same region of space.

So there we go. Kheldians can achieve lightspeed (I figure this would only be possible in space, in LightForm), and once at speed, they do some complex metal arithmetic, shift to Dwarf Form and tear a wormhole in space to where they need to go. I added in some (reasonable I think) postulations that they need to be out of a star's gravity well to be able to do that, in the piece of fiction I wrote for it. That's just standard scifi fare in that regard, though.

So there you go. Hope that helps!

FFM

THANK you FFM!



"Not Really Kheldians" - Galaxies, Quantums, and Voids (Oh my.)

Let's break these into three levels:

Quantums are nothing more than your average badguy who is armed with a Quantum Array gun. These smack Kheldians rather hard, but other than that, they're just a thug.

Galaxy troops are soldiers who have been infused with Nictus fragments ("pieces" of dying or weakened Nictus, though it seems healthy ones can create them too.) They are given some Warshade-like attacks (such as Ebon Bolt and Gravimetric Snare.) Not all of them are volunteers. (Moonfire TF)

Void Hunter mercenaries are the real baddies, as far as Kheldians are concerned. They're infused with far more Nictus fragments which have been modified with Quantum energy and are out hunting Khelds. They have a Quantum Array gun, as well as additional Nictus damage when in melee that affects the Kheldian inside the host. Their altered fragments provide them with energy resistance, instead of the attacks the Galaxy troops get.
***Spoiler*** Arakhn's in charge of the Void Hunter mercenaries, though Requiem's secretly been sending "loyalists" to undergo the process. (Shadow Science.)

Galaxy troops can opt to go for a "full conversion" after a while to a full Nictus - most likely, given other in game comments, because the shards integrate more fully into the host, get stronger, and keep making the suggestion (plus the "longing for space" that's mentioned.) It's mentioned in a story arc that the conversion rate for Galaxy troops to full Nictus is reaching 40%.

Two other types of creatures come up in conversations about these - War Wolves and Vampyrii. Failed Galaxy conversions can create War Wolves, though there is also some seperate process geared specifically towards making them. Vampyrii are made in a completely seperate process that has nothing to do with Nictus shards or Kheldians at all.

*** Spoiler *** There is a portion of the Kheldian story arcs that has you dealing with "shadow" enemies - Shadow freaks, Shadow vampyrii and the like. These are Freaks and Vampyrii that have been infused with Nictus fragments. Nosferatu himself was considering it. But the fragments have NOTHING to do with the original creation of Vampyrii.

Kheldians making Kheldians
We don't know how Khelds reproduce. Nictus, however, have a means apparently available to them (hinted at in the Galaxy soldier section.) In order to make a Galaxy soldier, N-fragments ("pieces" of a Nictus) are implanted. We don't know how many pieces it takes, or how many you can get from a dying Nictus. 40% of those troops (at this point) opt to become full nictus. If you can get more than one set of shards from a Nictus - and given there's a bit about creating them from healthy Nictus, as well - you can have multiple Nictus created from one. How much of the original Nictus personality remains is unknown.

In-game, the Peacebringers seem surprised by this, so they most likely have some other means available to them.

We don't know of "native" Kheld gender. The hosts obviously have gender, but native Khelds - unknown.

So you want to be a Kheldian...

Well, first things first, get a toon to 50. There's nothing definite about "can I delete the 50 afterward" at this point - in general, it's considered to be better safe than sorry, and not delete it.

Warshades, being the scientifically changed "rebel" Nictus, have a Science origin.
Peacebringers are Natural. As for how they play - well, browse the Kheld forum to get 50 different answers.

Of course, part of the fun is naming your character. There are no hard-and-fast rules about Kheldian naming. Everything I thought I found for Peacebringers had some exception. I THOUGHT the name would be "solar object + light reference" but that's broken by Sunstorm, Moonbow and Freeflight... so go nuts. Warshades SEEM to have a "shadow" reference to them - but people seem to go that way (shadow/dark) with them as it is, given their dark coloration in-form.

The names, by the way, are the names of the joined beings. Shadowstar's daughter Lilian is slated to become "the new" Shadowstar, so it's an inherited name or title.

Native Kheldian names? We know of some - Altered Umbra, Perhelion, and Dirge of Entropy. The best "explanation" for these names is it's the best fit our minds and language can come up with for Kheldian names. They are, after all, energy beings.

Some names from within the game:
Peacebringer:Sunstorm (Kheld named Perhelion,) Freeflight, Moonfire, Coldstar, Fullalbedo, Moonbow, Brightshift
Warshade:Shadowstar, Shadowcatcher(Nictus named Altered Umbra)
Nictus: Requiem (Nictus named Dirge of Entropy,) Arakhn

So just pick something that sounds good to you.

Other bits and pieces, speculation and references

Don't take any of the below as canon. It's just loose speculation or interesting tidbits.

- Requiem is called Science Lord in the original COH comic. Again, though - not canon. Sounds cool though.

- Earth was either not interesting enough, not advanced enough, or not needed for takeover earlier. Given "recent" advances (Nictus takeover map = 70 years old, Industral Revolution = 1800s, now up to nuclear power, quantum physics, and space travel) we may have just gotten VERY interesting or much more useful. Nictus may even be (in game, obviously) a driving force behind some advances. Nothing in game to back this up other than needing the "right" energy and crystals for a cyst. It's just an interesting choice time-wise.

- The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Unless Peacebringers have hosts that can survive interstellar space, something Cyst-like or can 'hibernate' as well, it would take nearly half a Kheld's natural life to get here (assuming that, as an energy being and having no mass, they could travel at the speed of light.)

EDIT 7/8/2011 - ... at which point we can add, "Which they can. Then work around it."

- Shadowstar's been mentioned in "ancient egypt," which gives us 2000-5000 years to work with. Board speculation (or bored speculation?) came up with an interesting idea - that Egyptian funeral rites could have been influenced by experience with the Nictus, with the Pyramids as a hiding point for a Cyst. Nothing in game supporting it, but it's an interesting idea to play with. (Fuzun.)

 

 

The comics and literature contain canon themselves:

Spoiler

 "The Web of Arachnos" is set in the 20s/30s, up to Brass Monday, and nothing in game AFAIK contradicts anything in it.  Similarly with "The Freedom Phalanx" being set in 1986, almost 20 years before the game starts, it contains nothing that contradicts anything in the game. In fact it provides some clarity on various bits and bobs of game lore found on plaques and so on. There are a few things that simply have to be taken on trust since the game cannot show them, such as Manticore's version of a "Batmobile"! (Credit to @Darmian)

 

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This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but my hope is to develop a good picture of the overall game story (laughs out loud). I know I could just as easily browse the Homecoming Wiki (which is an awesome resource!) but it would be quite a lot of reading I imagine. Anyways, I will make note of the greater discussion that has come before me in other sections of this forum. For others interested in this topic who have posted in other places, many thanks - posters like @VileTerror, @Darmian, @Latex and many many others. Here is what I could dig up on such discussion on the forums:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited by Glacier Peak
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I'll have to tag my future posts on Lore with a combination of "This is known", i.e. in game/novels/comics (though Going Rogue retconned a chunk of the comics) and speculation based on reasonable assumptions.  And if you'll pardon the expression, I'm assuming my assumptions are reasonable!  I'm always open to hear counter arguments though.

 

I've pointedly NOT referenced the Lore AMA as "canon" here. Most of it probably is but the OG devs' statements on things that had yet to occur are now, thanks to HC, in a nebulous form unless and until the current devs implement any of them or state they are void. A tracery of possibility rather than carved in stone diktat.

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The novels are canon to my knowledge at least. "The Web of Arachnos" is set in the 20s/30s, up to Brass Monday, and nothing in game AFAIK contradicts anything in it.  Similarly with "The Freedom Phalanx" being set in 1986, almost 20 years before the game starts, it contains nothing that contradicts anything in the game. In fact it provides some clarity on various bits and bobs of game lore found on plaques and so on. There are a few things that simply have to be taken on trust since the game cannot show them, such as Manticore's version of a "Batmobile"!

 

Since the game came back I've re-read my copies twice, and like yourself @Glacier Peak , enjoyed them. I prefer the writing in the first to the second, but that's me. And as a Lore hound who likes to mine things for AE creation and tries to line things up with what's in the game we all play, I've found nothing contradictory or retconned about them.

 

The comics are another matter entirely, and as they are all online anyone can check themselves.

 

  • The intro Dark Horse issue is fun and apart from Statesman having a helmet and not a face plate, all is fine with that. 
  • The Blue King run is for my money the most consistent and best of the comics, and doesn't appear to be retconned in any way.  My only gripe about that run is we never saw a version of Horus in game, though it would have to be a flashback I suppose. It would have made an interesting link to the Peacebringer path.
  • Top Cow's run.  How can I put this? Veers between "that was cool" to "oh dear god what cr*p". The entire Prometheus arc is blatant rubbish. The arc dealing with the Banished Pantheon is probably the best (and for my money the best part of this run), while the various bits of the Praetorian material have simply been retconned out of existence by Going Rogue.* The Cyrus Thompson story (playable via Twilight's Son) is nice, and the final two issues detailing the Rikti and the Honoree are decent.
  • The less said about the fumetti/cosplay/adverts that comprise the two special editions, the better really. 

 

*Going Rogue didn't retcon ALL the old Praetorian material, notably the OG Maria Jenkins arc in game still happened, but none of the material in the comics is ever referenced there again, or for that matter in the game itself at all, either Pre or Post Going Rogue. 

 

I think I'm showing my biases enough for now!

Edited by Darmian
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16 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

The Hydra were created by the Rikti to guard underground bases after the first Rikti Invasion.

Actually not exactly the case.  The Hydra were not created, they were kidnapped.  The Rikti basically swiped some of them from their home dimension, and exploited their confused state to use as attack dogs, more or less.  You can learn more about this in Tina MacIntyre's missions (even through the Ouroboros options, from the mission chain that gives the Multidimensional badge, though you don't actually have to finish the chain to get the badge, so many people don't).

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1 hour ago, Lazarillo said:

Actually not exactly the case.  The Hydra were not created, they were kidnapped.  The Rikti basically swiped some of them from their home dimension, and exploited their confused state to use as attack dogs, more or less.  You can learn more about this in Tina MacIntyre's missions (even through the Ouroboros options, from the mission chain that gives the Multidimensional badge, though you don't actually have to finish the chain to get the badge, so many people don't).

!!! That's super helpful. I did the Abandoned Sewer Trial and got the Charmer badge, but that was the extent of my background knowledge of the faction. Thank you!

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I'm going to tag @TwoDee as well, since they seem to have a really strong grasp on lots of the lore too.

 

Implicitly*, Shiva is the vanguard of the Battalion (or at least a portent within the timeline) per the Ouroboros introduction arcs.  Since I vaguely recall the A.M.A.s confirming this, I'mma consider that one full canon, personally.

 

* (Which, from my point of view, since most narrative content is delivered in the form of dialogue from Contacts, almost all of it is subject to potentially being false due to the possibility of them being Unreliable Narrators.  I mean, after all, some content is explicitly written with the Contact being -wrong- about the things they're saying, ie:  Early Primal Clockwork missions, where some Contacts incorrectly assume the Clockwork are robots.  HELL!  Even some of the in-game descriptions suffer from this, as I think at least one of the Primal Clockwork descriptions references that same incorrect assumption.)

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2 hours ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

I'm going to tag @TwoDee as well, since they seem to have a really strong grasp on lots of the lore too.

 

Implicitly*, Shiva is the vanguard of the Battalion (or at least a portent within the timeline) per the Ouroboros introduction arcs.  Since I vaguely recall the A.M.A.s confirming this, I'mma consider that one full canon, personally.

 

* (Which, from my point of view, since most narrative content is delivered in the form of dialogue from Contacts, almost all of it is subject to potentially being false due to the possibility of them being Unreliable Narrators.  I mean, after all, some content is explicitly written with the Contact being -wrong- about the things they're saying, ie:  Early Primal Clockwork missions, where some Contacts incorrectly assume the Clockwork are robots.  HELL!  Even some of the in-game descriptions suffer from this, as I think at least one of the Primal Clockwork descriptions references that same incorrect assumption.)

Absolutely agree with this aside. This is why I @'ed you! Sometimes story arcs in game aren't even in the traditional canon - looking at Pocket D mostly, but the stories still exist in the Co* universe. 

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Croatoa:

 

Going mostly from memory -

Earlier, the Red Caps performed some ritual that had Eochai running around Paragon during Halloween. (Referenced in an explore badge in Atlas Park.)

 

Whether related to that or not (not sure if explicitly stated,) the town north of Paragon known as Salamanca - aka Croatoa (a nod to the missing Roanoake colony) - currently has all sorts of monsters showing up. It's even stated that many of them were the town's residents. It's revealed in the first mission from Skipper Legrange (end of the first contact's arc, before you get Skipper as a contact) that the ghosts you were sent to investigate weren't spirits that didn't pass on, but that the town was being pulled into the spirit world.

 

There are two sides to this - the Red Caps and fir Bolg (pumpkin pie filling) vs the Tuatha and the Red Caps. The Red Caps are trying to perpetuate the war between the Tuatha and fir Bolg (and those warriors keep resurrecting and fighting. More pain for the Red Caps to enjoy.) End goal seems to be permanently making Salmanca into Croatoa.

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Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec.

 

I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages.

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20 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Croatoa:

 

Going mostly from memory -

Earlier, the Red Caps performed some ritual that had Eochai running around Paragon during Halloween. (Referenced in an explore badge in Atlas Park.)

 

Whether related to that or not (not sure if explicitly stated,) the town north of Paragon known as Salamanca - aka Croatoa (a nod to the missing Roanoake colony) - currently has all sorts of monsters showing up. It's even stated that many of them were the town's residents. It's revealed in the first mission from Skipper Legrange (end of the first contact's arc, before you get Skipper as a contact) that the ghosts you were sent to investigate weren't spirits that didn't pass on, but that the town was being pulled into the spirit world.

 

There are two sides to this - the Red Caps and fir Bolg (pumpkin pie filling) vs the Tuatha and the Red Caps. The Red Caps are trying to perpetuate the war between the Tuatha and fir Bolg (and those warriors keep resurrecting and fighting. More pain for the Red Caps to enjoy.) End goal seems to be permanently making Salmanca into Croatoa.

Oooh, I appreciate the added context @Greycat. Croatoa, for me at least, is a bit of an off-shoot from the main storyline. There isn't a lot that ties in to the rest of the game here, yet it is an entire zone with its own unique enemies, badges, contacts, and task force. 

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... should add the Cabal mostly seems to be there to be annoyed by the Red Caps and look for human males. (Check corners in croatoa...)

Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec.

 

I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages.

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1 minute ago, Greycat said:

... should add the Cabal mostly seems to be there to be annoyed by the Red Caps and look for human males. (Check corners in croatoa...)

Is the Croatoa 'Cabal' enemy faction at all related to War Witch's cabal? What about the Praetorian equivalent related in some way?

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1 minute ago, Glacier Peak said:

Is the Croatoa 'Cabal' enemy faction at all related to War Witch's cabal? What about the Praetorian equivalent related in some way?

 

Not related to Praetoria - that cabal's dealt with in Night Ward.  As far as relation to WW's coven... couldn't say. I don't believe so, but I don't recall the lore well enough to absolutely say one way or another.

Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec.

 

I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages.

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4 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Is the Croatoa 'Cabal' enemy faction at all related to War Witch's cabal? What about the Praetorian equivalent related in some way?

Her coven afaik is unrelated. At least the connection is never stated. Croatoa's coven came over during the colonial era and are all immortals or at least have great longevity. I'm also mad they killed her and sort of Horus off. They did great for a bunch of level 15's. I certainly wasn't fighting the carnival then. I think I just barely finished the hollows. 

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1 hour ago, A Cat said:

Her coven afaik is unrelated. At least the connection is never stated. Croatoa's coven came over during the colonial era and are all immortals or at least have great longevity. I'm also mad they killed her and sort of Horus off. They did great for a bunch of level 15's. I certainly wasn't fighting the carnival then. I think I just barely finished the hollows. 

Yeah, but for your delectation I provide this! 2/3 of the team together.

With Apex actually holding War Witch's sword.

 

screenshot_210802-14-59-36 - Copy.jpg

Edited by Darmian
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8 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Is this from his TF? (Yes, I have not ever run a Tinpex. It wasn't a thing back in the day and I haven't gotten around to it yet in HC). 

No, it's from a DA arc versus Mot.  He never appears IN his own TF other than to give instructions.

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1 hour ago, Darmian said:

No, it's from a DA arc versus Mot.  He never appears IN his own TF other than to give instructions.

Ah. I haven't done any of that either. I only have one 50 so far and I'm trying to be disciplined and not play her too much while I'm on the home stretch leveling another hero. I'm looking forward to it though. I just reread all of that comic series and want to see my buddies together again. I just loved the two of them together in particular. 

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On 8/5/2021 at 10:47 PM, A Cat said:

Ah. I haven't done any of that either. I only have one 50 so far and I'm trying to be disciplined and not play her too much while I'm on the home stretch leveling another hero. I'm looking forward to it though. I just reread all of that comic series and want to see my buddies together again. I just loved the two of them together in particular. 

You don't see him at all in game other than that single place, handing out TF stuff and one instance in defending Vanguard's RWZ base from Mot. That annoyed me a bit so

Spoiler

I wrote an AE arc, The Spark of the Blind, that references him.

*Edited to update for Vanguard RWZ v Mot.

Edited by Darmian

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44 minutes ago, Darmian said:

I don't see him at all in game other than that single place and handing out TF stuff. That annoyed me a bit so

  Reveal hidden contents

I wrote an AE arc, The Spark of the Blind, that references him.

 

Apex is tied into the DA arcs, apart of a team fighting Mot, you meet him in a couple different missions in those four arcs.

Edited by Dr_Snokle
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5 hours ago, A Cat said:

Her coven afaik is unrelated. At least the connection is never stated. Croatoa's coven came over during the colonial era and are all immortals or at least have great longevity. I'm also mad they killed her and sort of Horus off. They did great for a bunch of level 15's. I certainly wasn't fighting the carnival then. I think I just barely finished the hollows. 

I thought those exact same things reading the comics, I think everybody would've love to have seen Horus as a contact - perhaps a late game Peacebringer/Warshade mission giver. 

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1 minute ago, Glacier Peak said:

I thought those exact same things reading the comics, I think everybody would've love to have seen Horus as a contact - perhaps a late game Peacebringer/Warshade mission giver. 

Well, like Tin Mage II or Luminary perhaps?  Horus II? There's already a giant SPOILER warning at the top of the page, so I'll just say that Horus I dies (kinda) in the comic run.  His Kheldian half persists though so definitely a late game Peacebringer/Warshade guy.

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26 minutes ago, Dr_Snokle said:

Apex is tied into the DA arcs, apart of a team fighting Mot, you meet him in a couple different missions in those four arcs.

 

Though, IIRC, the Apex we see isn't that Apex, but an imposter. (I think one of the badges in the northern islands in Talos references it, as well as ... gah, whatsisname in sharkhead. Dean.)

 

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I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages.

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1 minute ago, Greycat said:

 

Though, IIRC, the Apex we see isn't that Apex, but an imposter. (I think one of the badges in the northern islands in Talos references it, as well as ... gah, whatsisname in sharkhead. Dean.)

 

No, that's AJAX you're thinking of.

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AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079)Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642)* | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104)* | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489)*The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403)* | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140)* The Eve of War (Arc id 41583)*

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617)* | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)*

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