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Posted (edited)

Folks, I'd like to know more about the game and share various spoilers that exist after playing through the content of this great game in order to better understand its story and lore. I am looking to contain this discussion to anything found in game - if it's in the Lore AMAs, I don't consider it canon. It should go without saying, but it is highly likely that this thread will contain spoilers, so please use the spoiler button when discussing something other players may not have finished yet. That being said I have a few bullet points, but I would like your help adding others. If you have an interest and provide some spoilers, I will update this post and credit it to the original poster:

 

After completing the Rikti War Zone story arcs and the final task force from Lady Grey, I understand the following:

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Croatoa is a magical destination. I played through all of the content, but I couldn't tell you what the zone or story was about besides the Sleepy Hollow vibe. 

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The Ouroboros is pretty thick with story, but I haven't honestly dug too deep in to it. I know that...

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The Shivans are...

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The Faultline zone story arcs and background (Credit to @GastlyGibus again!)

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Kheldian Lore:

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The comics and literature contain canon themselves:

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This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but my hope is to develop a good picture of the overall game story (laughs out loud). I know I could just as easily browse the Homecoming Wiki (which is an awesome resource!) but it would be quite a lot of reading I imagine. Anyways, I will make note of the greater discussion that has come before me in other sections of this forum. For others interested in this topic who have posted in other places, many thanks - posters like @VileTerror, @Darmian, @Latex and many many others. Here is what I could dig up on such discussion on the forums:

 

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Edited by Glacier Peak
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Posted

I'll have to tag my future posts on Lore with a combination of "This is known", i.e. in game/novels/comics (though Going Rogue retconned a chunk of the comics) and speculation based on reasonable assumptions.  And if you'll pardon the expression, I'm assuming my assumptions are reasonable!  I'm always open to hear counter arguments though.

 

I've pointedly NOT referenced the Lore AMA as "canon" here. Most of it probably is but the OG devs' statements on things that had yet to occur are now, thanks to HC, in a nebulous form unless and until the current devs implement any of them or state they are void. A tracery of possibility rather than carved in stone diktat.

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Posted (edited)

The novels are canon to my knowledge at least. "The Web of Arachnos" is set in the 20s/30s, up to Brass Monday, and nothing in game AFAIK contradicts anything in it.  Similarly with "The Freedom Phalanx" being set in 1986, almost 20 years before the game starts, it contains nothing that contradicts anything in the game. In fact it provides some clarity on various bits and bobs of game lore found on plaques and so on. There are a few things that simply have to be taken on trust since the game cannot show them, such as Manticore's version of a "Batmobile"!

 

Since the game came back I've re-read my copies twice, and like yourself @Glacier Peak , enjoyed them. I prefer the writing in the first to the second, but that's me. And as a Lore hound who likes to mine things for AE creation and tries to line things up with what's in the game we all play, I've found nothing contradictory or retconned about them.

 

The comics are another matter entirely, and as they are all online anyone can check themselves.

 

  • The intro Dark Horse issue is fun and apart from Statesman having a helmet and not a face plate, all is fine with that. 
  • The Blue King run is for my money the most consistent and best of the comics, and doesn't appear to be retconned in any way.  My only gripe about that run is we never saw a version of Horus in game, though it would have to be a flashback I suppose. It would have made an interesting link to the Peacebringer path.
  • Top Cow's run.  How can I put this? Veers between "that was cool" to "oh dear god what cr*p". The entire Prometheus arc is blatant rubbish. The arc dealing with the Banished Pantheon is probably the best (and for my money the best part of this run), while the various bits of the Praetorian material have simply been retconned out of existence by Going Rogue.* The Cyrus Thompson story (playable via Twilight's Son) is nice, and the final two issues detailing the Rikti and the Honoree are decent.
  • The less said about the fumetti/cosplay/adverts that comprise the two special editions, the better really. 

 

*Going Rogue didn't retcon ALL the old Praetorian material, notably the OG Maria Jenkins arc in game still happened, but none of the material in the comics is ever referenced there again, or for that matter in the game itself at all, either Pre or Post Going Rogue. 

 

I think I'm showing my biases enough for now!

Edited by Darmian
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Posted
  On 8/4/2021 at 3:23 AM, Glacier Peak said:

The Hydra were created by the Rikti to guard underground bases after the first Rikti Invasion.

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Actually not exactly the case.  The Hydra were not created, they were kidnapped.  The Rikti basically swiped some of them from their home dimension, and exploited their confused state to use as attack dogs, more or less.  You can learn more about this in Tina MacIntyre's missions (even through the Ouroboros options, from the mission chain that gives the Multidimensional badge, though you don't actually have to finish the chain to get the badge, so many people don't).

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Posted
  On 8/4/2021 at 8:25 PM, Lazarillo said:

Actually not exactly the case.  The Hydra were not created, they were kidnapped.  The Rikti basically swiped some of them from their home dimension, and exploited their confused state to use as attack dogs, more or less.  You can learn more about this in Tina MacIntyre's missions (even through the Ouroboros options, from the mission chain that gives the Multidimensional badge, though you don't actually have to finish the chain to get the badge, so many people don't).

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!!! That's super helpful. I did the Abandoned Sewer Trial and got the Charmer badge, but that was the extent of my background knowledge of the faction. Thank you!

Posted

I'm going to tag @TwoDee as well, since they seem to have a really strong grasp on lots of the lore too.

 

Implicitly*, Shiva is the vanguard of the Battalion (or at least a portent within the timeline) per the Ouroboros introduction arcs.  Since I vaguely recall the A.M.A.s confirming this, I'mma consider that one full canon, personally.

 

* (Which, from my point of view, since most narrative content is delivered in the form of dialogue from Contacts, almost all of it is subject to potentially being false due to the possibility of them being Unreliable Narrators.  I mean, after all, some content is explicitly written with the Contact being -wrong- about the things they're saying, ie:  Early Primal Clockwork missions, where some Contacts incorrectly assume the Clockwork are robots.  HELL!  Even some of the in-game descriptions suffer from this, as I think at least one of the Primal Clockwork descriptions references that same incorrect assumption.)

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Posted
  On 8/4/2021 at 10:40 PM, GraspingVileTerror said:

I'm going to tag @TwoDee as well, since they seem to have a really strong grasp on lots of the lore too.

 

Implicitly*, Shiva is the vanguard of the Battalion (or at least a portent within the timeline) per the Ouroboros introduction arcs.  Since I vaguely recall the A.M.A.s confirming this, I'mma consider that one full canon, personally.

 

* (Which, from my point of view, since most narrative content is delivered in the form of dialogue from Contacts, almost all of it is subject to potentially being false due to the possibility of them being Unreliable Narrators.  I mean, after all, some content is explicitly written with the Contact being -wrong- about the things they're saying, ie:  Early Primal Clockwork missions, where some Contacts incorrectly assume the Clockwork are robots.  HELL!  Even some of the in-game descriptions suffer from this, as I think at least one of the Primal Clockwork descriptions references that same incorrect assumption.)

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Absolutely agree with this aside. This is why I @'ed you! Sometimes story arcs in game aren't even in the traditional canon - looking at Pocket D mostly, but the stories still exist in the Co* universe. 

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Posted

Croatoa:

 

Going mostly from memory -

Earlier, the Red Caps performed some ritual that had Eochai running around Paragon during Halloween. (Referenced in an explore badge in Atlas Park.)

 

Whether related to that or not (not sure if explicitly stated,) the town north of Paragon known as Salamanca - aka Croatoa (a nod to the missing Roanoake colony) - currently has all sorts of monsters showing up. It's even stated that many of them were the town's residents. It's revealed in the first mission from Skipper Legrange (end of the first contact's arc, before you get Skipper as a contact) that the ghosts you were sent to investigate weren't spirits that didn't pass on, but that the town was being pulled into the spirit world.

 

There are two sides to this - the Red Caps and fir Bolg (pumpkin pie filling) vs the Tuatha and the Red Caps. The Red Caps are trying to perpetuate the war between the Tuatha and fir Bolg (and those warriors keep resurrecting and fighting. More pain for the Red Caps to enjoy.) End goal seems to be permanently making Salmanca into Croatoa.

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Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 5:18 PM, Greycat said:

Croatoa:

 

Going mostly from memory -

Earlier, the Red Caps performed some ritual that had Eochai running around Paragon during Halloween. (Referenced in an explore badge in Atlas Park.)

 

Whether related to that or not (not sure if explicitly stated,) the town north of Paragon known as Salamanca - aka Croatoa (a nod to the missing Roanoake colony) - currently has all sorts of monsters showing up. It's even stated that many of them were the town's residents. It's revealed in the first mission from Skipper Legrange (end of the first contact's arc, before you get Skipper as a contact) that the ghosts you were sent to investigate weren't spirits that didn't pass on, but that the town was being pulled into the spirit world.

 

There are two sides to this - the Red Caps and fir Bolg (pumpkin pie filling) vs the Tuatha and the Red Caps. The Red Caps are trying to perpetuate the war between the Tuatha and fir Bolg (and those warriors keep resurrecting and fighting. More pain for the Red Caps to enjoy.) End goal seems to be permanently making Salmanca into Croatoa.

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Oooh, I appreciate the added context @Greycat. Croatoa, for me at least, is a bit of an off-shoot from the main storyline. There isn't a lot that ties in to the rest of the game here, yet it is an entire zone with its own unique enemies, badges, contacts, and task force. 

Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 5:41 PM, Greycat said:

... should add the Cabal mostly seems to be there to be annoyed by the Red Caps and look for human males. (Check corners in croatoa...)

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Is the Croatoa 'Cabal' enemy faction at all related to War Witch's cabal? What about the Praetorian equivalent related in some way?

Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 5:44 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Is the Croatoa 'Cabal' enemy faction at all related to War Witch's cabal? What about the Praetorian equivalent related in some way?

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Not related to Praetoria - that cabal's dealt with in Night Ward.  As far as relation to WW's coven... couldn't say. I don't believe so, but I don't recall the lore well enough to absolutely say one way or another.

Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 5:44 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Is the Croatoa 'Cabal' enemy faction at all related to War Witch's cabal? What about the Praetorian equivalent related in some way?

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Her coven afaik is unrelated. At least the connection is never stated. Croatoa's coven came over during the colonial era and are all immortals or at least have great longevity. I'm also mad they killed her and sort of Horus off. They did great for a bunch of level 15's. I certainly wasn't fighting the carnival then. I think I just barely finished the hollows. 

Posted (edited)
  On 8/5/2021 at 5:52 PM, A Cat said:

Her coven afaik is unrelated. At least the connection is never stated. Croatoa's coven came over during the colonial era and are all immortals or at least have great longevity. I'm also mad they killed her and sort of Horus off. They did great for a bunch of level 15's. I certainly wasn't fighting the carnival then. I think I just barely finished the hollows. 

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Yeah, but for your delectation I provide this! 2/3 of the team together.

With Apex actually holding War Witch's sword.

 

screenshot_210802-14-59-36 - Copy.jpg

Edited by Darmian
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Posted

Is this from his TF? (Yes, I have not ever run a Tinpex. It wasn't a thing back in the day and I haven't gotten around to it yet in HC). 

Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 7:53 PM, A Cat said:

Is this from his TF? (Yes, I have not ever run a Tinpex. It wasn't a thing back in the day and I haven't gotten around to it yet in HC). 

Expand  

No, it's from a DA arc versus Mot.  He never appears IN his own TF other than to give instructions.

AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079) Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) X | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

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Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 8:02 PM, Darmian said:

No, it's from a DA arc versus Mot.  He never appears IN his own TF other than to give instructions.

Expand  

Ah. I haven't done any of that either. I only have one 50 so far and I'm trying to be disciplined and not play her too much while I'm on the home stretch leveling another hero. I'm looking forward to it though. I just reread all of that comic series and want to see my buddies together again. I just loved the two of them together in particular. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 8/5/2021 at 9:47 PM, A Cat said:

Ah. I haven't done any of that either. I only have one 50 so far and I'm trying to be disciplined and not play her too much while I'm on the home stretch leveling another hero. I'm looking forward to it though. I just reread all of that comic series and want to see my buddies together again. I just loved the two of them together in particular. 

Expand  

You don't see him at all in game other than that single place, handing out TF stuff and one instance in defending Vanguard's RWZ base from Mot. That annoyed me a bit so

  Reveal hidden contents

*Edited to update for Vanguard RWZ v Mot.

Edited by Darmian

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Posted (edited)
  On 8/5/2021 at 9:59 PM, Darmian said:

I don't see him at all in game other than that single place and handing out TF stuff. That annoyed me a bit so

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Expand  

Apex is tied into the DA arcs, apart of a team fighting Mot, you meet him in a couple different missions in those four arcs.

Edited by Dr_Snokle
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Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 5:52 PM, A Cat said:

Her coven afaik is unrelated. At least the connection is never stated. Croatoa's coven came over during the colonial era and are all immortals or at least have great longevity. I'm also mad they killed her and sort of Horus off. They did great for a bunch of level 15's. I certainly wasn't fighting the carnival then. I think I just barely finished the hollows. 

Expand  

I thought those exact same things reading the comics, I think everybody would've love to have seen Horus as a contact - perhaps a late game Peacebringer/Warshade mission giver. 

Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 11:04 PM, Glacier Peak said:

I thought those exact same things reading the comics, I think everybody would've love to have seen Horus as a contact - perhaps a late game Peacebringer/Warshade mission giver. 

Expand  

Well, like Tin Mage II or Luminary perhaps?  Horus II? There's already a giant SPOILER warning at the top of the page, so I'll just say that Horus I dies (kinda) in the comic run.  His Kheldian half persists though so definitely a late game Peacebringer/Warshade guy.

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Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

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Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 10:44 PM, Dr_Snokle said:

Apex is tied into the DA arcs, apart of a team fighting Mot, you meet him in a couple different missions in those four arcs.

Expand  

 

Though, IIRC, the Apex we see isn't that Apex, but an imposter. (I think one of the badges in the northern islands in Talos references it, as well as ... gah, whatsisname in sharkhead. Dean.)

 

Posted
  On 8/5/2021 at 11:12 PM, Greycat said:

 

Though, IIRC, the Apex we see isn't that Apex, but an imposter. (I think one of the badges in the northern islands in Talos references it, as well as ... gah, whatsisname in sharkhead. Dean.)

 

Expand  

No, that's AJAX you're thinking of.

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AE SFMA Arcs: The Meteors (Arc id 42079) Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part One. (Arc id 26756) X | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Two. (Arc id 26952) | Dark Deeds in Galaxy City: Part Three. (Arc id 27233) Darker Deeds: Part One (Arc id 28374) | Darker Deeds: Part Two. (Arc id 28536) | Darker Deeds: Part Three. (Arc id 29252) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part One (Arc id 29891) |

Darkest Before Dawn: Part Two (Arc id 30210) | Darkest Before Dawn: Part Three (Arc id 30560) |

 Bridge of Forever ( Arc id 36642) | The Cassini Division (Arc id 37104) X | The House of Gaunt Saints (Arc id 37489) X | The Spark of the Blind (Arc id 40403) | Damnatio Memoriae (Arc id 41140) X  The Eve of War (Arc id 41583) | Spirals: Part One. (Arc id 55109) |  Spirals: Part Two. (Arc id 55358) |  Spirals: Part Three. (Arc id 57197)

I Sing of Arms and the Man (Arc id 42617) | Three Sisters (Arc id 43013)

(Pre War Praetorian Loyalist.  Pre War Praetorian Resistance.  Pre ITF Cimerora.  Post ITF Cimerora. X = Dev Choice/Hall of Fame )

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