Marvel's "What If?" series

[Glacier Peak]

Pretty cool, haven't watched cartoons in a while. Interesting, wondering how it is going to tie in to the larger Phase 4 and 5 multiverse plot.

[Doc_Scorpion]

The writing was banal, except for the parts cut 'n pasted from movies...  But I hope the amount of paste eaten by the writer didn't give them a stomachache.  The animation was horrible.  It looked like they rotoscoped a Pixar movie, right down to the stereotypical gestures and facial expressions, producing a weird horror that was neither 2D nor 3D.  Whoever designed the characters should be shot and their body dumped in the nearest outhouse.  And whoever directed the voice acting could really up their game by watching a round dozen low budget kung fu dubs from the mid 70's and paying careful attention.

The only good part was the sweet relief of seeing the end credits roll and knowing the torture was over.  It was an enormous let down...  which is very depressing because I was a huge fan of What If? back in the day and I'm a huge fan of the MCU in general.  I wanted to like it so very badly, but I just couldn't.

 

[Mr. Vee]

Tell us how you really feel 😄

I didn't mind it. Peggy in action was fun as she was more athletic and trained going into the process than Steve so seemed more badass. I wasn't expecting much and anything I can get through in 15 minutes without wanting to bang my head against something is a win in my book. I do wish they'd have picked a less recognizable actor for Uatu though. It's not as bad as Dennis Haysbert on Masters of the Universe but there's still a real disconnect for me when an animated character's voice is so obviously a particularly well known actor.

[Glacier Peak]

  On 8/12/2021 at 5:07 AM, Doc_Scorpion said:

The writing was banal, except for the parts cut 'n pasted from movies...  But I hope the amount of paste eaten by the writer didn't give them a stomachache.  The animation was horrible.  It looked like they rotoscoped a Pixar movie, right down to the stereotypical gestures and facial expressions, producing a weird horror that was neither 2D nor 3D.  Whoever designed the characters should be shot and their body dumped in the nearest outhouse.  And whoever directed the voice acting could really up their game by watching a round dozen low budget kung fu dubs from the mid 70's and paying careful attention.

The only good part was the sweet relief of seeing the end credits roll and knowing the torture was over.  It was an enormous let down...  which is very depressing because I was a huge fan of What If? back in the day and I'm a huge fan of the MCU in general.  I wanted to like it so very badly, but I just couldn't.

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I can understand and emphasize with everything you've said. I reset my expectations after Loki (because it was so good!) and this show was about as good as I expected. 

[Glacier Peak]

  On 8/12/2021 at 8:06 AM, Mr. Vee said:

Tell us how you really feel 😄

I didn't mind it. Peggy in action was fun as she was more athletic and trained going into the process than Steve so seemed more badass. I wasn't expecting much and anything I can get through in 15 minutes without wanting to bang my head against something is a win in my book. I do wish they'd have picked a less recognizable actor for Uatu though. It's not as bad as Dennis Haysbert on Masters of the Universe but there's still a real disconnect for me when an animated character's voice is so obviously a particularly well known actor.

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This.

 

Did they get Atwell for the voice acting? I honestly couldn't tell... I did like that they got Stan for Bucky though.

[Mr. Vee]

  On 8/12/2021 at 3:17 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Did they get Atwell for the voice acting? I honestly couldn't tell... I did like that they got Stan for Bucky though.

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They did.

[Techwright]

  On 8/12/2021 at 3:17 PM, Glacier Peak said:

This.

 

Did they get Atwell for the voice acting? I honestly couldn't tell... I did like that they got Stan for Bucky though.

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Most of the parts were played by the actors who did the live action.  Even the creep commanding the SSR was taken from the live action "Marvel One Shot: Agent Carter" and is voiced by the live show actor.  Notable exceptions (and I'm not really spoiling anything here):  Steve was voiced by another, and Schmidt was voiced by the same actor who did Red Skull in Infinity War and Endgame.  Both, I thought did a fine job.

 

I've already read a lot of reviews and seen a lot of reactions.  Even talked to two YouTube reactors who are on my work team.  This is actually the first I've heard a lot of negative regarding the animation.  I have heard a comment, based solely on the trailer, that suggested the mouth movements were odd, but that was about the depth of it so far.  Speaking with my coworkers, we all agreed that the animation style, particularly the use of light and shadow, felt like a descendant of the old 2D Max Fleischer Superman cartoons of the early 1940s.  I wonder if the fact that those were animation from the WWII era, meant that this animation style was a homage.

 

As to the episode itself, I rather liked it.  I do have a few nitpicks, which I'll put in the spoiler box with everything else:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Captain Carter exhibited a notable level of strength beyond what we've seen with Captain America.  What's been said for the last 13 years is that the serum enhances to peak human conditioning.  While we have seen Rogers hurl an in-motion motorcycle, I'm trying to think if we've ever seen a level of jumping height equal to what Peggy exhibited, clearing the tops of evergreens.  Initially I was not thrilled with the flipping of the truck, again feeling it exhibited a level beyond that of super soldier  (Walker, for example, struggled to haul a truck from a precipice).  I was willing to chalk it up to the old martial arts concept of using your opponent's strength against him, hence the flip.  One of my coworkers point out however, that Rogers pinned down a helicopter once, so I'm a bit more accepting of this as a result. 

 

2. No combat between Red Skull and Captain Carter.  I get that the space squid was to be the ultimate test of her abilities, but its an important combat that they should not have missed.

 

3. How off earth did Red Skull even know there was a giant space squid out there?  Nothing in the writing, that I recall anyway, suggested that Hydra had any connection to space or its inhabitants.  And don't point to Agents of SHIELD for the answer.  Kevin Feige rejected them, and the character there is humanoid, both on screen and in the comics.

 

4. What an incredibly conveniently-place sword!  Even more impressive, its a significant weapon, and not a costume weapon like a lot of those sword-in-shield decorations

 

5.  So Red Skull's plan to conquer his heavily armed enemies was to whip out a giant space kraken?  One whose tentacles can be lopped off easily with a strong woman with a sword?  What was he thinking it would do against a tank battalion, let alone a full army?

 

6.  I'm unclear how the machinery burning necessitated an immediate transformation procedure.   You have both the vials of Dr. Erskine's formula and the scientist who built all the machinery to deliver the formula.  If anything the project was just set back for a month or two.  I hate agreeing with a worthless stuff-shirt like Col. Flynn, but Peggy and Howard should have grabbed the vials and gotten everyone clear of there.  Howard could then rebuild, and they'd have pure samples to analyze and duplicate.  At worst, they finish the lab mark II and put a healed Rogers through the process at that time.

 

7. Captain Carter riding the HYDRA Stomper feels like a direct rip-off of DC's Star Girl riding the S.T.R.I.P.E. armor.  I've even found a picture or two in a nearly identical pose.

 

8.  Captain Carter with sword and shield feels like a complete rip-off of the first Wonder Woman movie.  Which I'm okay with because a lot of that movie was a rip-off of Captain America: The First Avenger.

 

9.  The HYDRA castle looked like a deliberate parody of the Disney park castles,

 

10.  Running up to the motorcyclist:  lost opportunity to say "On your left".

 

11. I like that they didn't use the name "Captain Britain".  It gives me hope that we'll one day see Marvel's Captain Britain.

 

12.  Notice the scene where Captain Carter moves in to interrogate Dr. Zola?  It's subtle, but it has to be a deliberate contrast to Zola's interrogation in The First Avenger.  There, Col. Phillips has a persuasive, gentle interrogation of Zola.  Phillips points out that Zola was responsible for the "death" of Cap's best friend, and he wouldn't like his chances with anyone else in the room (implying Rogers handling the interrogation).  In this timeline, Phillips is dead, and Col. Flynn being a complete waste of uniform is not conducting the interrogation, so the person to enter the room is the super soldier who just lost her best friend.  Alt timeline Zola found out the truth of  what sacred timeline Col. Phillips was hinting at.

 

 

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

  On 8/14/2021 at 12:06 AM, Techwright said:

Most of the parts were played by the actors who did the live action.  Even the creep commanding the SSR was taken from the live action "Marvel One Shot: Agent Carter" and is voiced by the live show actor.  Notable exceptions (and I'm not really spoiling anything here):  Steve was voiced by another, and Schmidt was voiced by the same actor who did Red Skull in Infinity War and Endgame.  Both, I thought did a fine job.

 

I've already read a lot of reviews and seen a lot of reactions.  Even talked to two YouTube reactors who are on my work team.  This is actually the first I've heard a lot of negative regarding the animation.  I have heard a comment, based solely on the trailer, that suggested the mouth movements were odd, but that was about the depth of it so far.  Speaking with my coworkers, we all agreed that the animation style, particularly the use of light and shadow, felt like a descendant of the old 2D Max Fleischer Superman cartoons of the early 1940s.  I wonder if the fact that those were animation from the WWII era, meant that this animation style was a homage.

 

As to the episode itself, I rather liked it.  I do have a few nitpicks, which I'll put in the spoiler box with everything else:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Captain Carter exhibited a notable level of strength beyond what we've seen with Captain America.  What's been said for the last 13 years is that the serum enhances to peak human conditioning.  While we have seen Rogers hurl an in-motion motorcycle, I'm trying to think if we've ever seen a level of jumping height equal to what Peggy exhibited, clearing the tops of evergreens.  Initially I was not thrilled with the flipping of the truck, again feeling it exhibited a level beyond that of super soldier  (Walker, for example, struggled to haul a truck from a precipice).  I was willing to chalk it up to the old martial arts concept of using your opponent's strength against him, hence the flip.  One of my coworkers point out however, that Rogers pinned down a helicopter once, so I'm a bit more accepting of this as a result. 

 

2. No combat between Red Skull and Captain Carter.  I get that the space squid was to be the ultimate test of her abilities, but its an important combat that they should not have missed.

 

3. How off earth did Red Skull even know there was a giant space squid out there?  Nothing in the writing, that I recall anyway, suggested that Hydra had any connection to space or its inhabitants.  And don't point to Agents of SHIELD for the answer.  Kevin Feige rejected them, and the character there is humanoid, both on screen and in the comics.

 

4. What an incredibly conveniently-place sword!  Even more impressive, its a significant weapon, and not a costume weapon like a lot of those sword-in-shield decorations

 

5.  So Red Skull's plan to conquer his heavily armed enemies was to whip out a giant space kraken?  One whose tentacles can be lopped off easily with a strong woman with a sword?  What was he thinking it would do against a tank battalion, let alone a full army?

 

6.  I'm unclear how the machinery burning necessitated an immediate transformation procedure.   You have both the vials of Dr. Erskine's formula and the scientist who built all the machinery to deliver the formula.  If anything the project was just set back for a month or two.  I hate agreeing with a worthless stuff-shirt like Col. Flynn, but Peggy and Howard should have grabbed the vials and gotten everyone clear of there.  Howard could then rebuild, and they'd have pure samples to analyze and duplicate.  At worst, they finish the lab mark II and put a healed Rogers through the process at that time.

 

7. Captain Carter riding the HYDRA Stomper feels like a direct rip-off of DC's Star Girl riding the S.T.R.I.P.E. armor.  I've even found a picture or two in a nearly identical pose.

 

8.  Captain Carter with sword and shield feels like a complete rip-off of the first Wonder Woman movie.  Which I'm okay with because a lot of that movie was a rip-off of Captain America: The First Avenger.

 

9.  The HYDRA castle looked like a deliberate parody of the Disney park castles,

 

10.  Running up to the motorcyclist:  lost opportunity to say "On your left".

 

11. I like that they didn't use the name "Captain Britain".  It gives me hope that we'll one day see Marvel's Captain Britain.

 

12.  Notice the scene where Captain Carter moves in to interrogate Dr. Zola?  It's subtle, but it has to be a deliberate contrast to Zola's interrogation in The First Avenger.  There, Col. Phillips has a persuasive, gentle interrogation of Zola.  Phillips points out that Zola was responsible for the "death" of Cap's best friend, and he wouldn't like his chances with anyone else in the room (implying Rogers handling the interrogation).  In this timeline, Phillips is dead, and Col. Flynn being a complete waste of uniform is not conducting the interrogation, so the person to enter the room is the super soldier who just lost her best friend.  Alt timeline Zola found out the truth of  what sacred timeline Col. Phillips was hinting at.

 

 

 

 

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Wow, you should do this for a living!

[Techwright]

  On 8/14/2021 at 12:20 AM, Glacier Peak said:

Wow, you should do this for a living!

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Having a pair of YouTube reactors for coworkers makes for some really fascinating water cooler talk.  If anything, playing ideas off of those two has actually intensified my reactions and observations.  I tend to deep dive into the information.  Guessing outcomes to Marvel miniseries, though...well, let's just say I'm not buying a lottery ticket.  Yet.  😉

[DougGraves]

I assume the portal tentacle monster ending was a salute to the Hellboy movie.

 

I thought the animation was okay but my daughter loved it.  She had to tell us that several times while watching it.  So there is an audience for it.

 

What is "Marvel One Shot: Agent Carter" - something besides the tv show?

[Mr. Vee]

Evidently. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3067038/ I haven't seen it either but I wondered why they've mentioned Zodiac in a couple things when I didn't remember Zodiac being in the MCU. I just chalked it up to my terrible memory. I'm thinking it being mentioned as where to see more Agent Carter is a pretty clear disavowal of the TV series' continuity. Too bad, it was uneven but had its moments. 

[Triumphant]

  On 8/12/2021 at 5:07 AM, Doc_Scorpion said:

The writing was banal, except for the parts cut 'n pasted from movies...  But I hope the amount of paste eaten by the writer didn't give them a stomachache.  The animation was horrible.  It looked like they rotoscoped a Pixar movie, right down to the stereotypical gestures and facial expressions, producing a weird horror that was neither 2D nor 3D.  Whoever designed the characters should be shot and their body dumped in the nearest outhouse.  And whoever directed the voice acting could really up their game by watching a round dozen low budget kung fu dubs from the mid 70's and paying careful attention.

The only good part was the sweet relief of seeing the end credits roll and knowing the torture was over.  It was an enormous let down...  which is very depressing because I was a huge fan of What If? back in the day and I'm a huge fan of the MCU in general.  I wanted to like it so very badly, but I just couldn't.

 

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My opinion:  Writing was great.  Animation was great.  Voice acting was great.  Looking forward to the next episode.

[Heraclea]

Yes, it's derivative.  I nevertheless enjoyed it thoroughly.  Back to the drawing board.....

[Techwright]

  On 8/15/2021 at 2:37 AM, DougGraves said:

What is "Marvel One Shot: Agent Carter" - something besides the tv show?

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Marvel released a series of "Marvel One Shots".  They're up to 15 minutes each (some much less) and fill in some details.  I think all of these can be found online, just not on YouTube.  Just look for the longest number of minutes to find the full videos as folks like to clip brief scenes from them.

 

"Agent Carter" gave Peggy's immediate after-war experience with the pre-SHIELD SSR, mostly a bunch of misogynists who somehow never realized the effectiveness of her role in the SSR during the war.  It is the link between Captain America: The First Avenger and the Agent Carter TV show.  As such, it has persons and thematic elements that are reused in the Captain Carter storyline in the What If...? episode.

 

"All Hail The King" is the only reason I can tolerate Iron Man 3.    Goofball actor Trevor in prison continues to play off his 15 minutes of fame unaware that someone terrifying has taken notice.  It can be considered a precursor to the upcoming Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings movie.

 

"A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To Thor's Hammer" highlights SHIELD Agent Phil Coulson's unique disarming charm and martial prowess, and is considered a precursor to the first Thor movie.

 

"The Consultant" tied The Incredible Hulk movie to the MCU (which they'd previously been hesitant to do), and gave a humorous look on the behind-the-scenes bureaucracy within a pre-The Avengers SHIELD.

 

"Item 47" is a post-Battle of NYC (The Avengers) story about what happens when a bunch of dead aliens leave their weapons behind.  Agent Sitwell is highlighted, and the story could be considered a precursor in theme to Spiderman: Homecoming.

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

The second episode was full of surprises. 

[CursedSorcerer]

  On 8/15/2021 at 2:37 AM, DougGraves said:

I assume the portal tentacle monster ending was a salute to the Hellboy movie.

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Actually, I think it's supposed to be a tease for Shuma-Gorath, who I think is supposed to be a major villain in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.

[Techwright]

  On 8/19/2021 at 7:59 PM, Glacier Peak said:

The second episode was full of surprises. 

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Serious understatement.

 

I'll say this (and I don't believe I'm spoiling anything, 'specially with the title and all):  they gave Chadwick a great high note to go out on.  (Though I understand he'll voice smaller bits in other episodes)  I read somewhere that they said Chad had more fun doing this than his live action movie, and was constantly tweaking his performance and making notes to himself as to how this performance should influence him in the next live movie.  Sadly, he didn't get the chance, but they have the notes, and intend to allow them to influence the development of the film.

 

Thumbs up to voice actor Fred Tatasciore for nailing the role in the bar scene.  He had me fooled for a second thinking it was the live action actor.  (Fred is the usual voice of the animated Hulk, so this was a surprise).

Another thumbs up to every live-action actor who came back to voice only one or two lines of the animated version of their characters.  The commitment to the role is appreciated.

 

Watching a dozen or so YouTube reactor channels reacting to this was a blast.  There were certain moments every single one of them lost their collective cool over and it was glorious.

[Wavicle]

I thought it was great. I liked both episodes so far.

[CursedSorcerer]

I wonder who the third episode will center on... Just a couple more days...

[Techwright]

  On 8/23/2021 at 5:52 PM, CursedSorcerer said:

I wonder who the third episode will center on... Just a couple more days...

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Got an answer for that...

  Reveal hidden contents

The web is saying it will be a Loki episode, which, if right, I'm a tad disappointed with Marvel.  We're not even 4 episodes away from LokiVisio...um, Loki the Series.  You'd think they'd let the dough rest a bit, maybe coming back to Loki later in the What If...? season, and give some other characters the spotlight for better variety.

 

[Glacier Peak]

  On 8/23/2021 at 8:18 PM, Techwright said:

 

Got an answer for that...

  Reveal hidden contents

The web is saying it will be a Loki episode, which, if right, I'm a tad disappointed with Marvel.  We're not even 4 episodes away from LokiVisio...um, Loki the Series.  You'd think they'd let the dough rest a bit, maybe coming back to Loki later in the What If...? season, and give some other characters the spotlight for better variety.

 

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It better be about....

  Reveal hidden contents

... Alligator Loki! 😆

 

[Techwright]

@Glacier Peak, I'd be on board with that!  😁

[klulka1]

Or what if loki was deemed worthy to lift thors hammer?

[Marine X]

  On 8/15/2021 at 10:11 AM, Mr. Vee said:

I didn't remember Zodiac being in the MCU

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The Zodiac Cartel were a group of Industrialists/Business People with Super Powered Suits and / or Skills that allowed them to depict each of the Zodiac Signs. They were a long running nemesis in comics of SHIELD, The Defenders, The Avengers and Iron Man which would have been active in the 1970s and 1980s.

The Agent Carter version may be a different group or perhaps their Progenitors, since they were wealthy, they may not have been the first generation in the Club.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Marine X

[Mr. Vee]

I knew who they were in the comics, just didn't remember from MCU. Turns out it was just a green liquid MacGuffin in the Agent Carter one-shot. I watched all the one-shots btw and they're ok, but certainly not essential watching.