Spice up the game some with ?

[AlabasterKnight]

I love the game, I do, but content wise, we need more actual villains and groups to show the same diversity in threats as the zillion PCs running around. I'm pretty sure the existing villain groups reproduce from spores or something. >_<.

Offline, I have long been involved in the production of superhero RPG material and have published my share. So, although this game is ( imo ) still the best for what it is, I feel like we could all agree it needs more foes and to my mind, the easiest way to do that is to proliferate new groups and major costumed EB and AV villains is through radio missions rather than the Architect... In Architect, it doesn't feel like you're in the city.

 

I wonder how hard it would be to have a "Secret Frequency" that allows the game to use your architect villains and groups to populate radio missions you select?

Like you see three regular radio missions as normal, and if your account has made custom villain groups, and you mark them public or something along those lines in Architect, they could crib into a fourth listed mission.

Alternatively,

Maybe people could submit their custom made groups for this dev team to use to proliferate into the radios to add a little spice and mystery?
When a new group is encountered, you get a dialogue with a short couple paragraphs or something and off to the races.

 

Shoot, I'd be willing to create stuff to help put a new coat of paint up.
Peace.

[Aurora_Girl]

Aren't there like...two hundred different enemy groups already? Sure, lots and lots are underused or underrepresented on TFs/SFs (looking at you, Council with your FOUR TFs while my beloved Carnies have ZERO), but I definitely don't think we need more. Hell, Gold side stuff added like 50 groups by itself. 

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Aren't there like...two hundred different enemy groups already? Sure, lots and lots are underused or underrepresented on TFs/SFs (looking at you, Council with your FOUR TFs while my beloved Carnies have ZERO), but I definitely don't think we need more. Hell, Gold side stuff added like 50 groups by itself. 

The fact that he mentions radios multiple times does support the possibility that he’s not availing himself of all the options.

 

Also, AE has very specific penalties since it’s so easy to game a system you can design yourself. So it makes sense that moving player creations into the city would be a hard no from a balance perspective.

Edited August 31, 2021 by arcane

[AlabasterKnight]

Some people may want the game to do more. And to the charge of "two hundred... etc.", no, there's a very limited rogues gallery in the game, and a lot of us have seen them all. The reason I mention radios is to see variance without having to hard code story arcs, but rather just plug in new villains to one shot missions.

And for the hard no balance - anything suggested can be imported and 'balanced' as it is made available. The idea is to save some of the creative work. I just love how everyone gets up on their junior-dev high horse and shoots ideas down around here. Variety is good, and sometimes people might be willing to pay to get it.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

Variety is the spice of life, as the saying goes.

I can always get on board with this type of MOAR!

I love that you not only made the suggestion, but also offered up your services to help make it happen.

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

15 hours ago, AlabasterKnight said:

And for the hard no balance - anything suggested can be imported and 'balanced' as it is made available.

Assuming that dev time is available to balance 2,456,947 different player made creations.  That's on par with with assuming I'm going to win the lottery this evening.

Seriously, for this to be viable, you're going to need a large roster right out of the gate.  And you're going to need a considerable number regularly added (and older ones rotated out) to prevent folks from coming back and making the same complaints of having "seen everything".  That's...  a lot of manpower this dev team doesn't have.  It would be a huge task even for a full time dev team.

 

15 hours ago, AlabasterKnight said:

I just love how everyone gets up on their junior-dev high horse and shoots ideas down around here.

When someone posts a bad idea, people are going to point out that it's a bad idea.  When an idea has deep structural flaws, people are going to point out those deep structural flaws.  (And, as per the subforum rules, they're permitted to do so.)  It's impossibly rare that an idea is immaculately conceived.

If someone has actually been involved in any actual development (of pretty much anything), they know this is the way development works.  The way the world works.  If they've never encountered this, they don't have the experience they think they do.

[BurtHutt]

If you go to the AE section, I had some ideas for this. I've also sent those ideas directly to some Homecoming staff in hopes they use the idea. I am also willing to help in the process. The HC Devs are a small but mighty crew. There is no way they can pump out enough to keep the masses happy but this AE option I pitched could be a big help as it allows all of us to pitch in by making AE missions, having them reviewed and then having them possibly added to game. 

 

 

[arcane]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:53 PM, AlabasterKnight said:

I just love how everyone gets up on their junior-dev high horse and shoots ideas down around here.

You posted in the incorrect subforum if you don’t want to deal with disagreement.

[AlabasterKnight]

22 minutes ago, arcane said:

Dude 1:
"When someone posts a bad idea, people are going to point out that it's a bad idea.  When an idea has deep structural flaws, people are going to point out those deep structural flaws.  (And, as per the subforum rules, they're permitted to do so.)"
 

Dude 2:
"You posted in the incorrect subforum if you don’t want to deal with disagreement."

(sic)

Except there's no deep structural flaw, just a bunch of naysaying hyperbole. As someone who holds an MM, I am no stranger to logistics or planning or fleshing out an idea if you build buy-in, momentum and have constructive conversations about the how.
When people think it's a bad idea and then back that up by parroting back how awful it could be as the immense task in the worst perspective frame, I guess that makes them look smart.

 

If you're worried about dev load, I'd suggest they do this kind of thing - one at a time.

 

If you're worried about fairness, set up a lottery to draw suggestions out of a hat to evaluate, and they draw a few until they get a viable candidate idea, and then whammo presto, new stuff - in whatever timeframe available.

If they need more help and they have to pay for it, a community that seems to fund things quickly before most of us can even contribute because by the time we hear about it, the ask is closed... well, can we ad more volunteers to the dev team?

oooh and special shout out to snarky Dude 2: I'm dealing just fine with your disagreement, you just have yet to create a positive and constructive reply that supports something new being better than a bad idea because of your personal point of view. In the inception of an idea, the coolest thing to do that benefits everyone is to actually figure out a way it could be done until it can't, thereby supporting everyone's hope, not jumping bandwagon with forum cartel and figuring out the quickest way to defeat it, shut it down and bury it because I don't post so often and hey, maybe that guy will go away.

Kallisti Wharf sits largely unused, development is slow and eventually you will lose the momentum of this cool game that should have never left that despite it's age, has acquitted itself well that there isn't anything like it.

Maybe admitting the development needs help and running it as more than a hobby might see interest from everyone to really support more infrastructure.
But hey, I have no clue what I am even saying here - clearly I don't know shit.

~~

Have a great day everyone.
 

[golstat2003]

On 9/12/2021 at 2:03 PM, AlabasterKnight said:

Except there's no deep structural flaw, just a bunch of naysaying hyperbole. As someone who holds an MM, I am no stranger to logistics or planning or fleshing out an idea if you build buy-in, momentum and have constructive conversations about the how.
When people think it's a bad idea and then back that up by parroting back how awful it could be as the immense task in the worst perspective frame, I guess that makes them look smart.

 

If you're worried about dev load, I'd suggest they do this kind of thing - one at a time.

 

If you're worried about fairness, set up a lottery to draw suggestions out of a hat to evaluate, and they draw a few until they get a viable candidate idea, and then whammo presto, new stuff - in whatever timeframe available.

If they need more help and they have to pay for it, a community that seems to fund things quickly before most of us can even contribute because by the time we hear about it, the ask is closed... well, can we ad more volunteers to the dev team?

oooh and special shout out to snarky Dude 2: I'm dealing just fine with your disagreement, you just have yet to create a positive and constructive reply that supports something new being better than a bad idea because of your personal point of view. In the inception of an idea, the coolest thing to do that benefits everyone is to actually figure out a way it could be done until it can't, thereby supporting everyone's hope, not jumping bandwagon with forum cartel and figuring out the quickest way to defeat it, shut it down and bury it because I don't post so often and hey, maybe that guy will go away.

Kallisti Wharf sits largely unused, development is slow and eventually you will lose the momentum of this cool game that should have never left that despite it's age, has acquitted itself well that there isn't anything like it.

Maybe admitting the development needs help and running it as more than a hobby might see interest from everyone to really support more infrastructure.
But hey, I have no clue what I am even saying here - clearly I don't know shit.

~~

Have a great day everyone.
 

 

Sure give them the funds to do that. We'll wait.

[AlabasterKnight]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:13 PM, golstat2003 said:

 

Sure give them the funds to do that. We'll wait.

Given the right support and permission, I could easily [EDIT HERE: help ] turn this into a business that monetizes development. The last time I tried to proffer such an idea, the people in the community that wanted to run revitalization efforts like a volunteer camp circled the wagons and decried the idea of 'evil corporations' on a project that rightly costs millions to do correctly.
The people in the wings know where to find me. I'm not anonymous.

On topic, I'm just looking for variety to keep everyone interested.

Edited September 15, 2021 by AlabasterKnight

[arcane]

22 minutes ago, AlabasterKnight said:

Given the right support and permission, I could easily turn this into a business that monetizes development. The last time I tried to proffer such an idea, the people in the community that wanted to run revitalization efforts like a volunteer camp circled the wagons and decried the idea of 'evil corporations' on a project that rightly costs millions to do correctly.
The people in the wings know where to find me. I'm not anonymous.

On topic, I'm just looking for variety to keep everyone interested.

I think I’d prefer you remain off the project after this little display 🙂

[AlabasterKnight]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

I think I’d prefer you remain off the project after this little display 🙂

 

What display?
I remember "Plan Z" and the people involved. Some awesome people, some awful people.
The awful people seemed to outnumber the awesome people and generated an uncomfortable social atmosphere that was centered around intersectionality.
This should be about the game, so, I don't know what you expect me to say?

 

So....Your loss, my loss, our loss, and everyone's loss. 

Happy gatekeeping Arcane!

[golstat2003]

19 hours ago, AlabasterKnight said:

Given the right support and permission, I could easily [EDIT HERE: help ] turn this into a business that monetizes development. The last time I tried to proffer such an idea, the people in the community that wanted to run revitalization efforts like a volunteer camp circled the wagons and decried the idea of 'evil corporations' on a project that rightly costs millions to do correctly.
The people in the wings know where to find me. I'm not anonymous.

On topic, I'm just looking for variety to keep everyone interested.

 

You can't turn it into a business for obvious reasons. Seeing as how the IP is not owned by anyone currently playing or working on this. Think on that for a second. We'll wait.

 

You can DONATE those funds though via the monthly donation window. You know, the one they announce pretty much EVERY MONTH.

 

😛 

[Bionic_Flea]

Or maybe the Dev's can sponsor an AE contest to get ideas . . . oh wait!

 

 

[Marine X]

Is there perhaps a way, that the same method that @brigg used to Create Cos-Play Villains from Player Costume Files for his $Comicon Farm Missions in AE, could accomplish this? He was able to create a Pool of potential NPCs to fill the mission from that list of Character Files and the Map/Mission randomly populates the Map with them. Just a thought.....

[AlabasterKnight]

6 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

You can't turn it into a business for obvious reasons. Seeing as how the IP is not owned by anyone currently playing or working on this. Think on that for a second. We'll wait.

 

You can DONATE those funds though via the monthly donation window. You know, the one they announce pretty much EVERY MONTH.

 

😛 

 

I'm not talking about incorporation and your vision is severely lacking when you parrot the obvious and chase your round room logic.
*You* think on that a second, I'm going to spare myself the wait.
This conversation with *you* is done for me. Your sarcasm doesn't endear you to me taking you seriously. 
Have a nice day.

[skoryy]

On 8/29/2021 at 8:56 PM, AlabasterKnight said:

I wonder how hard it would be to have a "Secret Frequency" that allows the game to use your architect villains and groups to populate radio missions you select?

 

A secret frequency that somehow is full of villains with fire-based powers. 🤔

 

On 8/29/2021 at 8:56 PM, AlabasterKnight said:

Maybe people could submit their custom made groups for this dev team to use to proliferate into the radios to add a little spice and mystery?
When a new group is encountered, you get a dialogue with a short couple paragraphs or something and off to the races.

 

Each existing group has its own lore and backstory that you can discover in game via exploration, plaques, missions, task forces, et al.  For new groups, I'd prefer they have all that rather than simply being a group of easily forgotten radio randos.

[AlabasterKnight]

3 hours ago, skoryy said:

 

A secret frequency that somehow is full of villains with fire-based powers. 🤔

 

 

Each existing group has its own lore and backstory that you can discover in game via exploration, plaques, missions, task forces, et al.  For new groups, I'd prefer they have all that rather than simply being a group of easily forgotten radio randos.

Me too, really, but I'm thinking anything is better than nothing. And who knows, maybe a rating at the end of the radio for how you liked the group, run like a survey and top performers start to get plaques and backstory? I dunno, I like the possibilities.

[skoryy]

Just now, AlabasterKnight said:

Me too, really, but I'm thinking anything is better than nothing. And who knows, maybe a rating at the end of the radio for how you liked the group, run like a survey and top performers start to get plaques and backstory? I dunno, I like the possibilities.

 

The top performers will be the easiest ones to steamroll, a quick check of the AE will prove it.

 

What you're talking about would have to be dev-level choices and work, stuff like what @Piecemeal's putting together.  I wouldn't leave it to a fan vote.

[AlabasterKnight]

On 9/16/2021 at 5:17 PM, skoryy said:

I wouldn't leave it to a fan vote.

 Fair enough.

[Marbing]

I really like this idea. Anything that could add more content to the game is a huge plus in my book. 

 

As for the logistics, I think we as a community could easily come up with an idea to make this feasible instead of shooting it down immediately. Everyone who plays this game has created content, simply by creating their character. Others have gone even further and created entire enemy groups! Others still have gone even further and created non-farming enemy groups complete with lore friendly backstories and the like! I am not saying it WILL work, I am just saying that this idea does deserve some thought beyond "Nope, impossible, next!".

 

We do already have tons of AE content in the game (that is NOT A FIRE / SMASH-LETHAL FARM) that can be pulled from. The Dev's already host AE contests (as mentioned earlier in this thread by @Bionic_Flea) that right there could be one way this could slowly grow. As to how hard it is to port an enemy group from an AE mission into PvE gameplay, I don't know. But, it seems to me we already have the systems needed in place to start this thought ball rolling at least. And I am sure there are other's out there that may have some good ideas too, outside of AE content/contests. 

 

Remember: @AlabasterKnight isn't saying lets integrate 100 new enemy groups immediately complete with full backstories and TF/SF's! 

The idea would be to slowly, one at a time, start integrating AE enemy groups (non-farm groups) that the Dev's choose (through some sort of contest or content that they have experienced on their own in AE) into the game in some sort of small capacity. Radio's would work because they aren't centered around a story, they are just one off missions. Tip missions could be another way. Then as we start seeing them more and more that can grow into something bigger down the road. 

 

So... yeah... start with ONE. See how it works. Go from there. I like the idea, lets figure this out! Also, shout out to @AlabasterKnight for offering his services to help make this happen. I would also be willing to create enemy groups and/or backstories to make this happen. 🙂

 

[Arctique]

 

1 hour ago, th0ughtGun said:

The idea would be to slowly, one at a time, start integrating AE enemy groups (non-farm groups) that the Dev's choose (through some sort of contest or content that they have experienced on their own in AE) into the game in some sort of small capacity. Radio's would work because they aren't centered around a story, they are just one off missions. Tip missions could be another way. Then as we start seeing them more and more that can grow into something bigger down the road. 

 

This is about the only way I could see something like this working, via something like forum contests where players can submit their custom enemy groups for a chance to have it added to radio/safeguard/mayhem mission spawns, or something similar to the Dev's Choice for story arcs in AE itself. BUT that would still require a dev to spend hours they might not really have on testing the balance of these player made enemy groups (Which in the context of a contest, could be hours of testing for each submission to be sure things will be balanced properly, you can't just fight a mob with one character one time and go "yep it's good") and of course it could be a substantial amount of work to actually then code any chosen groups into radio missions. It might sound like a simple task to just say "take custom AE mobs and put them in radio missions!" but I really doubt the game's code makes that so simple. So they'd need to ask themselves if the effort required to implement them would be worth their time over other development projects like actual new story arcs.

 

It's a nice idea, but there's a lot of problems with figuring out how to implement it and if that would be a worthwhile use of the development team's limited manpower.

 

An alternative idea I could see maybe working better (though would still require some VERY hefty development time still and would by no means be easy to implement either) would be a system added to AE where maybe players can just make singular missions and set them to randomly pick a certain door type out in your zone of choice? Something like, a special terminal added to AE buildings where you can make or play single one-off missions that don't use a contact and can be set by the creator to spawn in a specific zone and/or randomly on their choice of office door, cave entrance, sewer entrance, etc. Basically a new expansion of AE's system that provides a variety of bite-sized bits of content like radio missions, but actually does send the players out into the world instead of staying huddled in the AE building start to finish. I couldn't see it being as abused as the regular AE is, because the regular AE arcs that require zero travel would always be more efficient for farming than something that's going to make you go looking for a random door across the zone that will take longer to get to than the glowing pillar of light five feet away from you.

 

That would still take a lot of effort to implement and still might not be worth the development time compared to other content and features, but I feel like just expanding on AE functionality to allow for more kinds of custom content, would be a more elegant solution and require less time on the developers' end having to test and curate what custom mobs make the cut for radio missions. Instead creating a unique alternative for that style of generic repeatable content, with its own pros and cons when compared to basic radio missions. For instance regular radio missions would remain more convenient with being able to accept them from anywhere via your contacts list compared to the AE radios needing you to go to the AE building to select a mission first, as well as regular radios counting towards safeguard missions that can yield more unique rewards like temp powers and special badges. The AE radios however would be able to offer far more variety in maps, enemy groups, objectives, and story content, along with some more diverse difficulty in how hard or easy the creator may have designed their mission/mobs to be.

 

Probably more than a few glaring flaws in that idea too of course, I'm no dev myself, just somebody who sometimes likes to think "hey this might be a cool thing maybe", and then ramble on about said maybe neat idea to try and make what's in my head make sense to anyone other than myself.

[Marbing]

1 hour ago, Arctique said:

It's a nice idea, but there's a lot of problems with figuring out how to implement it and if that would be a worthwhile use of the development team's limited manpower.

 

This is the part I don't know, we would need a Dev to weigh in on it. Is it something that can be done without massive hours of development time? Maybe we can get one of them to answer if this is even possible? That would certainly decide where this could go.

Edited September 26, 2021 by th0ughtGun
typo

[Arctique]

5 minutes ago, th0ughtGun said:

This is the part I a don't know, we would need a Dev to weigh in on it. Is it something that can be done without massive hours of development time? Maybe we can get one of them to answer if this is even possible? That would certainly decide where this could go.

 

My guess, to be taken with a grain of salt because it is just a guess based on limited knowledge of the game's code, is that it would be a pretty big undertaking because:

A) As far as I know, the raw custom enemy group files used by AE are only used by AE, so it wouldn't likely be as easy as plucking a custom mob from AE and just adding it to an enemy group spawn list for radio missions. Either they'd need to have some way to convert a custom AE mob into something the game will recognise as a regular enemy group, or rework how radio missions work so that they can create some sort of framework with which they can just stick AE mob files into them, or recreate those custom mobs entirely from scratch as a new group entirely just based on what was made in AE.

B) There is the question of how they'd have to decide which custom mobs make the cut for showing up in radio missions. Like I mentioned above, developer time would need to inevitably be spent not just integrating a new enemy group into the list of which ones can show up for radio missions, but also thoroughly testing any potential groups to make sure they'd be well balanced against the existing vanilla enemy groups. They'd need to be see how they function against different sized teams and solo players, different ATs and powersets, unslotted builds vs. SO slotted builds vs. fully IO'd, builds with and without Incarnates unlocked, etc. Imagine if you were running radios solo on a SO-slotted Scrapper and get a custom mob, only to find they absolutely curb stomp you because they were only tested for 10 minutes using a fully IO'd Incarnate slotted Brute. Testing and balancing would likely take far more time than the actual coding to add the groups.

C) Which enemies appear in radio missions also varies depending on the zone and level ranges remember, so would these custom made enemy groups just appear at all level ranges in every zone? Or would the devs have to spend time considering where specifically each new mob should appear and within what range of levels? Which will require more testing to make sure that an enemy group that's perfectly fine as level 50 mobs isn't going to be overpowered if fought at level 20 instead.

D) Any new feature or update is inevitably going to have its bugs, so that's more development hours to account for as well. You accepted a radio mission with a custom enemy group, only to find that group wasn't added in properly and didn't actually spawn when you loaded into the mission map? Well that's going to be more time the dev team's going to have to take away from other tasks to now figure out what triggers that bug and how they can fix it.

 

How much they'd be willing to invest the hours into such a feature is something only the dev team themselves can answer, maybe they'll see it as a worthwhile enough addition that it is worth putting the work and the hours in... But game development can be a very lengthy and complex process, especially when your developers are mostly volunteers and hobbyists that have to work with somebody else's decades old spaghetti code.