Focused Feedback: Stone Melee - Changes and Proliferation

[drbuzzard]

I suppose I should test it to be sure, but I skipped fault on the test stalker because it says 'may do damage' which sounds an awful lot like it's random if it does damage or not. 

 

I guess I understand the change which created seismic mallet. Stalkers already do crazy damage, so siesmic smash might be excessive. Though after playing stalkers with the fixed EM, I can't imagine that seismic smash at full force would have been all that excessive. ET when going properly (which should be every time if you play it right) is far more damage (DPAS). Also the quickened total focus also stands as a respectable DPAS attack now. 

 

Stone melee on brutes (or tanks) was always a hotshot in single target DPAS because of the combination of heavy mallet and seismic smash. We lose heavy mallet here. (stone punch is good because it is quick, but really not godly or anything). I suppose the idea was that assassin strike coupled with seismic smash would be excessive. Well I know this set won't be tempting me to abandon my EM stalkers. 

 

As for other things- there's a number of powers tied to being on the ground. Thematically that makes sense and all, but it does put a kibosh on hover fighting. Fighting romans on the walls of Cimerora I found out the hard way that Geode only worked on the ground. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by drbuzzard

[drbuzzard]

2 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

 

Accidental double post. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by drbuzzard

[Marshal_General]

What's that noise?

We are either in the middle of a thunder storm, a land slide or being attacked by a stone melee stalker.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

I suppose I should test it to be sure, but I skipped fault on the test stalker because it says 'may do damage' which sounds an awful lot like it's random if it does damage or not. 

it’s not random, but I pointed out earlier and I am now doing so again that the description is misleading.

[Parabola]

I'm not sure I understand the geometry of the new fault. The patch notes suggest that the damage cone only extends between the caster and the target, which would make it have variable length? No other cone effect in the game works like this to my knowledge? How does it react to range enhancement and +range global bonuses? Also just to confirm, it is affected by the tanker arc buff right?

 

If it is a variable length cone between caster and target and you have a separate radial fault effect around the target you are then torn when targeting. For maximum damage coverage you would want to target a critter at the back of the pack but you are then wasting fault radius extending beyond the pack. For maximum control coverage you would target a critter in the middle of the pack but then the damage cone would be shortened.

 

I've had a quick play with it and it seems to work ok but it's very hard to tell on screen exactly what is going on! Another thought; if a critter is in both areas of effect is the power making two separate hit rolls against them for the damage and control effects?

[Sovera]

11 minutes ago, Parabola said:

I'm not sure I understand the geometry of the new fault. The patch notes suggest that the damage cone only extends between the caster and the target, which would make it have variable length? No other cone effect in the game works like this to my knowledge? How does it react to range enhancement and +range global bonuses? Also just to confirm, it is affected by the tanker arc buff right?

 

If it is a variable length cone between caster and target and you have a separate radial fault effect around the target you are then torn when targeting. For maximum damage coverage you would want to target a critter at the back of the pack but you are then wasting fault radius extending beyond the pack. For maximum control coverage you would target a critter in the middle of the pack but then the damage cone would be shortened.

 

I've had a quick play with it and it seems to work ok but it's very hard to tell on screen exactly what is going on! Another thought; if a critter is in both areas of effect is the power making two separate hit rolls against them for the damage and control effects?

 

Also, neither the dev notes nor the info on the power seems to indicate size of the cone and depth. Or perhaps I'm blind. Is it a 90% cone? More? Less?

 

I also feel it's quite a complicate solution on all levels as opposed to a short range Shockwave clone with the CC changed around.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Sovera

[jojogladco]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

Also, neither the dev notes nor the info on the power seems to indicate size of the cone and depth. Or perhaps I'm blind. Is it a 90% cone? More? Less?

 

I also feel it's quite a complicate solution on all levels as opposed to a short range Shockwave clone with the CC changed around.

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.stone_melee.fault_cone_brute&at=brute

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.stone_melee.fault_cone_tanker&at=tanker

Scrapper data doesn't appear to be up on COD Beta yet 

 

Interestingly the Brute version has greater range and radius.  But COD is a couple of builds behind on BETA right now, so that may have been normalized/fixed/however you'd like to say it. 

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, Parabola said:

Another thought; if a critter is in both areas of effect is the power making two separate hit rolls against them for the damage and control effects?

Answered this for myself - yes the two effects roll to hit independently. So that raises the question do they both share the same 0.8 acc modifier?

 

In terms of enhancements it looks like the damage cone is only affected by taoe sets and the fault part by stun, kb and taunt sets. I assume that the damage cone is prevented from being affected by taunt sets to stop the power double dipping on perfect zinger procs?

 

I do wonder if this power isn't a little too complicated? Procs like a champion though.

[Sovera]

7 minutes ago, jojogladco said:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.stone_melee.fault_cone_brute&at=brute

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.stone_melee.fault_cone_tanker&at=tanker

Scrapper data doesn't appear to be up on COD Beta yet 

 

Interestingly the Brute version has greater range and radius.  But COD is a couple of builds behind on BETA right now, so that may have been normalized/fixed/however you'd like to say it. 

 

Thanks Jojo. And holy crap, 6 second recharge? Wat? 35º cone? Wow... That's... pretty terrible? Back to the bad old days of trying to fit 5 mobs in Shadow Maul, is it?

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Thanks Jojo. And holy crap, 6 second recharge? Wat? 35º cone? Wow... That's... pretty terrible? Back to the bad old days of trying to fit 5 mobs in Shadow Maul, is it?

It’s Ranged. Comparison to Shadow Maul is hardly appropriate.

[Sovera]

16 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It’s Ranged. Comparison to Shadow Maul is hardly appropriate.

 

We are meleers. We are in melee range. People are not going to jump ten feet back to use it. I think it's appropriate. It's on the line of Fire Breath.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

 

We are meleers. We are in melee range. People are not going to jump ten feet back to use it. I think it's appropriate. It's on the line of Fire Breath.

 

You don't have to jump back. I took a Stone/Stone into a 4/8 mission and Fault was definitely making a big difference. It's not Foot Stomp, no, but it doesn't have to be.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

You don't have to jump back. I took a Stone/Stone into a 4/8 mission and Fault was definitely making a big difference. It's not Foot Stomp, no, but it doesn't have to be.

 

I'm not asking for that. I haven't actually used it so you're ten steps ahead of me. I was just surprised at seeing CoD say it had 35% arc. You've used it, how does it feel? Old Shadow Maul style? Actually dependable to hit 5+ enemies?

[Wavicle]

Just now, Sovera said:

 

I'm not asking for that. I haven't actually used it so you're ten steps ahead of me. I was just surprised at seeing CoD say it had 35% arc. You've used it, how does it feel? Old Shadow Maul style? Actually dependable to hit 5+ enemies?

 

If you think of it as a Line attack then yes it is dependable. If you try to use it like a cone on guys spread in front of you then no.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

 

If you think of it as a Line attack then yes it is dependable. If you try to use it like a cone on guys spread in front of you then no.

 

Yikes. Yeah, that's terribad. Old Shadow Maul bad. The CC is a benefit to the build but an early AoE to tidy it up until 32 is just or more important in my book.

 

Well, lets see how this goes.

[Wavicle]

Just now, Sovera said:

 

Yikes. Yeah, that's terribad. Old Shadow Maul bad. The CC is a benefit to the build but an early AoE to tidy it up until 32 is just or more important in my book.

 

Well, lets see how this goes.

 

I don't know how to respond to this without sounding like I'm saying learn to play. Lining up cones is not difficult. Golden Dragonfly hits 3 to 5 all the time. Hitting that many with Fault is considerably easier than that.

[Sovera]

Just now, Wavicle said:

 

I don't know how to respond to this without sounding like I'm saying learn to play. Lining up cones is not difficult. Golden Dragonfly hits 3 to 5 all the time. Hitting that many with Fault is considerably easier than that.

 

... Yeah, lets perhaps not go down that path, shall we?

[Wavicle]

Just now, Sovera said:

 

... Yeah, lets perhaps not go down that path, shall we?

 

Then go try it yourself before having this discussion maybe?

[Bopper]

3 hours ago, jojogladco said:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.stone_melee.fault_cone_brute&at=brute

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.stone_melee.fault_cone_tanker&at=tanker

Scrapper data doesn't appear to be up on COD Beta yet 

 

Interestingly the Brute version has greater range and radius.  But COD is a couple of builds behind on BETA right now, so that may have been normalized/fixed/however you'd like to say it. 

The one you linked to is the correct size for all ATs. They were mixed up in the beginning, but now should all be 20 feet, 55 degrees

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Bopper said:

The one you linked to is the correct size for all ATs. They were mixed up in the beginning, but now should all be 20 feet, 55 degrees

 

Well that's a heckuva lot bigger than a line, so either it changed since I tested it or I misjudged. No one's going to confuse that with Shadow Maul.

[Bopper]

3 hours ago, Parabola said:

Answered this for myself - yes the two effects roll to hit independently. So that raises the question do they both share the same 0.8 acc modifier?

 

In terms of enhancements it looks like the damage cone is only affected by taoe sets and the fault part by stun, kb and taunt sets. I assume that the damage cone is prevented from being affected by taunt sets to stop the power double dipping on perfect zinger procs?

 

I do wonder if this power isn't a little too complicated? Procs like a champion though.

They don't share the same accuracy modifier. It's basically like casting two powers at once. The stun/kb power has the 0.8x modifier (like it always had) and the damage cone has a 1.0x modifier.

 

As for procs, that should be correct. Only the stun/kb power will accept the disorient, kb and taunt sets (and their procs). While the damage cone accepts TAoE, ATOs, and Universal Damage sets and their procs.

 

They also will proc differently. The stun/kb will use 20s cooldown, and is a spherical AoE (15'?). The damage will use a 6s cooldown and has the area factor of a cone with 20' radius and 55 degree. 

 

I am not sure if the main target gets proc'd like a ST attack. If so, that's a bug and would have to be fixed.

[Sovera]

12 minutes ago, Bopper said:

They also will proc differently. The stun/kb will use 20s cooldown, and is a spherical AoE (15'?). The damage will use a 6s cooldown and has the area factor of a cone with 20' radius and 55 degree.

 

While I have your attention, Bopper, has there been any internal talk of letting Fault work with Hover? Just asking more pointedly to know if it's a hard no and no point in requesting it, or talk about it is ongoing with a maybe in the horizon.

[jojogladco]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

The one you linked to is the correct size for all ATs. They were mixed up in the beginning, but now should all be 20 feet, 55 degrees

Brute is showing Range 30 ft, Arc 35 degrees and rad of 30ft

Tanker is showing Range 20ft, Arc 55 degrees and rad of 20ft

Are you saying that the current active build on Brainstorm has everything fixed to be 20ft/55 degrees?  Sorry to be so slow to understand on this one, just want to make sure I'm on the right page. 

[Bopper]

Just now, jojogladco said:

Brute is showing Range 30 ft, Arc 35 degrees and rad of 30ft

Tanker is showing Range 20ft, Arc 55 degrees and rad of 20ft

Are you saying that the current active build on Brainstorm has everything fixed to be 20ft/55 degrees?  Sorry to be so slow to understand on this one, just want to make sure I'm on the right page. 

Check the date, it was last updated in August. I would have to search closed beta patch notes, but they were all set to 20/55 fairly recently.

[jojogladco]

Just now, Bopper said:

Check the date, it was last updated in August. I would have to search closed beta patch notes, but they were all set to 20/55 fairly recently.

Yeah COD is 3-5 builds behind for BETA was my thought. I checked closed beta patch notes earlier today and didn't find anything. But and it's a big BUT, I'm on day 25 of dealing with COVID and somedays like today my brain is just mush. So it's possible I missed it. I'll double check again. I didn't have any luck searching Beta Discord for the terms range, radius, or arc either, but I def glossed over just searching Fault so I'll check there also. Thanks Bopper.