A new challenge.

[dtjunkie]

36 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

Okay, I don't get how they dropped your resistances that far.  I thought res debuffs were resisted BY damage resistance.  Or is Tar Patch not their only res debuff?

 

Two Tar Patches, each reducing res by 39.9%

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, dtjunkie said:

Two Tar Patches, each reducing res by 39.9%

 

Which is why I said I thought res debuffs were resisted BY damage resistance.  What you're saying would be true only if these tar patches were unresistable.  I don't see that in City of Data's description of them at least.  Again, unless I am missing something.

 

Edit: I was missing it.  It's there in City of Data.  The version that Prophets are using is tagged "Ignores Resistance".  Sheesh!

Edited November 4, 2021 by ZemX

[Werner]

7 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Which is why I said I thought res debuffs were resisted BY damage resistance.  What you're saying would be true only if these tar patches were unresistable.  I don't see that in City of Data's description of them at least.  Again, unless I am missing something.

I didn't pay close attention, but a 40% unresisted resistace debuff for each tar patch would account for what I was seeing on my runs.

[Werner]

23 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Tactics. Man is THAT gonna have to chew through some godmode muscle memory...

I feel so old school pulling enemies and splitting spawns.

[ZemX]

12 minutes ago, Werner said:

I didn't pay close attention, but a 40% unresisted resistace debuff for each tar patch would account for what I was seeing on my runs.

 

Confirmed.  The dang Tar Patch is bugged.  No wonder these guys are so mean!

This is my Rad/Staff who even at 50 is not built for capped resistances because I left room for MoT and Sky Splitter's +res bonus to cap me, which they easily do.  Except here I don't have access to Sky Splitter... oops.  There's +13% res down the tubes.  Then I get hit by unresisted Tar Patch.   I got very close to dying on the first couple fights.

 

But yeah... it's just a matter of moving out of the tar patch quickly enough and I can take each spawn.  Not done yet but if I'm careful, the normal +1/x8 on Rad/Staff should be no big deal.

 

By the way... here's the old bug report.  I wonder if it got fixed for Player cast Tar Patch but not all the NPCs that can do it:

 

[ZemX]

Okay, completed normal +1/x8.  I am ordinarily built well enough for level 29 but that Tar Patch nearly sent me to the hospital a few times.  Mainly, don't want to be surrounded and def floored WHEN it hits.   Because then you have a couple seconds to run and hide around a corner.  Well.. I did anyway.

 

Safest to pull and get into a bit of a retreating fight until the Prophets drop their patches.  Then I can stand and fight.  Staff did okay with it's two AoEs at this level.  I don't even have Ground Zero and Radiation Therapy procced up.. though I plan to soon probably.  That would have made this slightly easier.

[KC4800]

died twice with a SJ/WP scrapper at +1/X8. Was pulling with a ranged debuff, that just pissed them off.

[lemming]

Yow.  Ran my Bio/Fire tank thru.  At +2/x8 if I didn't jump away from the tar patch, near instant death.  Still a bit dicey if I did and needed to watch stuff like a hawk.

At +1/x8, easier but still a bit of a challenge and if my cat distracts me, I die.

[Spaghetti Betty]

Just got done trying this with my Bio/Kat tank. At +1x8 I had to carefully plan each encounter or eat dirt. Had quite a few deaths from some bad pulls. No amount of absorption stopped me from getting chewed up by the blender of -def and negative energy damage if I pulled bad.

 

Tried it again at +2. I had to give that one up. With Katana being so low damage, especially at that lvl, on a Tanker, I couldn't make any headway on mobs before I was overwhelmed with -tohit, and eventually killed.

[Carnifax]

Edit : I should have reread the rest of the thread 1st, others have picked up on this too 🙂

 

Looking at Combat Attributes and City of Data I think I've figured out why my maxxed resists Rad Armour folds like wet tissue paper. 

 

Guess who still has the Unresistable version of Tar Patch then.....

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tarpatch.tar&at=minion_pets

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Carnifax

[Carnifax]

14 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Which is why I said I thought res debuffs were resisted BY damage resistance.  What you're saying would be true only if these tar patches were unresistable.  I don't see that in City of Data's description of them at least.  Again, unless I am missing something.

 

Edit: I was missing it.  It's there in City of Data.  The version that Prophets are using is tagged "Ignores Resistance".  Sheesh!

Some Vahzilok bosses apparently also use this version of Tar Patch, according to CoD but on the Wiki I can't see it listed in their powers. 

 

Which is probably why it's escaped things. If Vahzilok had widely it Posi 1 and 2 would be pure evil. 

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Guess who still has the Unresistable version of Tar Patch then.....

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.tarpatch.tar&at=minion_pets

 

Ah ha! Figured out why I missed this the first time.  I had turned off "Show PvP Data" in the top margin of City of Data.  This unresitable -res effect only affects players.

 

All player accessible versions of Tar Patch were changed at some point to something that redirects to "Dark Miasma.Tar" which does not contain the unresistible effect.   All NPC versions are still the old Pets.TarPatch which has the unresistible (against players) res debuff.

 

 

So just Prophets, Desdemona, Decay Murk Eidolons, and AE.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/entity.html?entity=vahzilok_decay_murk_eidolon_boss

 

Interesting to note the Mission Maker version is unresistible.  I've never done any of the AE801s but now I wonder if this features in any of them.  

 

[ZemX]

Oh wow... do a search on Enervating Field over at CoD.   Positron, Antimatter, and Bile all have unresistible 30% res debuff.  The kicker?  That includes the Positron Signature Summon! 😈

[ThrillMill]

16 hours ago, Werner said:

And being cautious and tactical about your approach and knowing when to retreat. Of primaries I have experience with, I think Invuln would be good at this too. Good resistance and defense and defense debuff resistance, Dull Pain healing you and giving you high hit points when you're taking hits escaping from the tar patch while defense debuffed. Then a secondary with good damage output at the mid levels, not sure which. Not just single target, but also AoE to wipe out the minions faster to help avoid cascading defense failure, before switching to single target DPS since you don't want to kill the Soothsayers until the end.

So what you're saying here is Invlun/Claws...right? 

[Carnifax]

14 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Oh wow... do a search on Enervating Field over at CoD.   Positron, Antimatter, and Bile all have unresistible 30% res debuff.  The kicker?  That includes the Positron Signature Summon! 😈

Well that explains why a tricked out incarnate Rad Brute got annihilated by Bile while my scrapper looked on a bit bewildered. I was a level 40-something Ice/Ice and the whole point was that they'd get something tougher to deal with a +4 Bile. 

 

 

[Werner]

1 hour ago, ThrillMill said:

So what you're saying here is Invlun/Claws...right? 

Ooh, probably! Not sure which attacks come in when, but it has a good mix of single target and AoE, even a ranged knockdown cone, right? I’m not at my computer. That sounds perfect to me, even though I’ve not played claws.

[Linea]

3 hours ago, ZemX said:

Interesting to note the Mission Maker version is unresistible.  I've never done any of the AE801s but now I wonder if this features in any of them.  

Only Minimally.  I strongly limited auto-hit and unresistible effects.  I did not limit them completely, and the farther up the scale you go, the more there may be, but they remain limited even in the hardest versions.

[Werner]

They absolutely wrecked my Katana/Dark Brute at +1x8 no temps no insps no amps. Two deaths and I'd barely dented the first group. I managed to pull and kill a couple minions, managed to get away with a few hit points when everyone joined, but due to the to hit debuffs, I couldn't hit a thing with Dark Regeneration when they arrived, or land Divine Avalanche for defense, and down I went. Second try they all came at once, I was OK for a few moments, killed a minion, got my next target, my defense and resistance were negative, hit points plunging, I reached for Dark Regeneration and died before I could hit it. Since I did kill a few minions for my two deaths, and I'm sure I could get the hang of Dark Regeneration again (it's been a long time), maybe I could slowly and painfully make some progress, but it doesn't seem worth it. Maybe if I'd taken Cloak of Fear early enough to have it, it would have helped, but instead I took Oppressive Gloom at 38. I guess I'll try my Dark Armor/Martial Arts Tanker. That'll at least let me know if Oppressive Gloom (and being a Tanker) helps.

[Werner]

Switched to my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes Brute, +1x8 no temps no insps no amps. Better but not good. Died twice taking out two groups. Gave up.

[Werner]

3 hours ago, Werner said:

I guess I'll try my Dark Armor/Martial Arts Tanker. That'll at least let me know if Oppressive Gloom (and being a Tanker) helps.

My Dark Armor/Martial Arts Tanker with amps and Oppressive Gloom is a far different beast. Capped resistance makes a huge difference, plus I can run at almost full speed out of the tar patches with 80% run speed debuff resistance, so I'm only at low resistance for a brief moment. I didn't use Dark Regeneration on my first pass, taking out everything but Anna's group at +1x8 with no deaths. Bumped it to +2x8 and didn't seem to be having trouble on the first group, so I bumped it to +3x8. Difficult but doable. They chased me completely out of the mission a few times, and all the way to the door a few other times, but I finished, +3x8 no temps no insps no deaths kill all. I doubt I'll try for +4, and if so, maybe some other time. I'm getting tired of these guys.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Werner

[Sovera]

I decided to give this another try after the tales of kiting and splitting up spawns, but, no. Even just BU + Burn then run off and break LoS and wait before attacking when they arrived had me die twice still at the first spawn.

 

At one point I got a crit that shaved 75% of my HP. Boom 😄

[ihatethewind]

I got bored so I tried this again on my SR/DM tank with a slight change in tactics.  Turns out it made +1x8 laughably easy.  Just turn on fly and punch the tops of their heads, easy peasy.

[Werner]

3 hours ago, ihatethewind said:

I got bored so I tried this again on my SR/DM tank with a slight change in tactics.  Turns out it made +1x8 laughably easy.  Just turn on fly and punch the tops of their heads, easy peasy.

Oh! OK, +1x8 no temps no insps no amps no deaths done on my DM/SR and Katana/Dark Brutes. Thank you. 🙂

[Uun]

So far I've been unceremoniously crushed on my Dark/Dark and SR/Staff tanks. 

[Uun]

29 minutes ago, Uun said:

So far I've been unceremoniously crushed on my Dark/Dark and SR/Staff tanks. 

After 2 initial deaths, cleared the map and completed the mission on my SR/Staff. +1x8, no temps, no inspirations. Basic strategy was to run out of Tar Patch and around a corner every time it was cast (I've got 60% speed debuff resistance).