Silly Idea

[Gruntius]

So I had a bit of a silly idea I was hoping the community could help me flesh out. I wanted to RP a character that suffers a debilitating injury and loses access to their super powers, this means that starting at level 4 the only powers available to them would be power pools. Obviously this build would be gimped so I'm keeping them to solo play only, that doesn't mean I'm not trying to make this toon as viable as I can manage though. I had some questions regarding this build which are

 

The first most obvious one is "which pools?"

I feel like fighting is a givin since it's attack powers are what made me want to do this build in the first place, I've never taken them before and wanted to actually give them a try

 

Sorcery vs Force of Will vs Experimentation

I understand these three pools are mutually exclusive, so which one is the best for this build? FoW seems the most in line from an RP perspective. I won't lie Rune of Protection is very tempting but I'm just not sure if the rest of the sorcery pool would be very useful. Experimentation doesn't interest me that much but I won't take anything off the table

 

which archetype?

I posted this in the Brute forum because I'm 90% confident that this toon should be a Brute due to their good mix of the offense and defense and their better than average solo potential, but I'm not unwilling to consider tankers, scrappers and stalkers

 

Which Primary and Secondary?

I'm only going to have access to their pre level 4 powers so which primary and secondary have the best starting powers, minus any weapon powers due to redraw

 

And that's about it, I just wanted to have a chance to have some fun making a dumb build with some people, so have at it

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gruntius

[InvaderStych]

Hmm..

 

Primary:

 

Street Justice.  Thematically fitting, and you get combo builders and a finisher in the first 3 powers (available before lvl 4 rule). Go fully into the Boxing/Kick/CrossPunch on top of those three and likely a viable attack chain.  Maybe Spring Attack to round out a little extra AoE?

 

Secondaries?:

 

Energy Aura: Typed defenses in the first two toggle shields, and a good +Res auto in the middle.

 

- or - The Unconventional Choice:

 

Regen: The two Autos fit in theme with having lost powers. The Heal could be useful and RP'd as a device of some sort.

 

AT?:

 

Not sure it matters all that much; I don't remember if any Stalkers get AS by 4, so perhaps not one of those?  The other 3 melee would benefit better from their inherent on a project like this.  Seems like a "dealer's choice" sort of moment.

 

I can't really speak to the other pool choices, don't know enough about them.

[roleki]

Experimentation is actually pretty decent for melee types, especially Brutes.  Speed of Sound and a Jaunt macro means you can pop between mobs and minimize the Fury cool off you'd get when running between mobs. Corrosive Vial is a small AoE with a small number of targets, but it's an auto hit that will take the Achilles' Heel proc.  Adrenal Booster isn't Moment of Glory or whatever, but it does give you a nice little spike if Fury is waning or you're swatting at something that needs some cheating.

[Erratic1]

The character lost access to their super powers but is getting pool powers which are themselves...super powers? 😛

 

I am thinking an Ice/SR brute for base. Ice because the one attack you will take from it, Ice Sword, applies both -SPD and -Recharge. While you could have a second attack it would probably be better to grab powers from your secondary for protection. SR wins out for covering all three positional attack vetors with a higher value than Shield does. And you are going to want to be as unhittable as possible since you will not be getting any status protection from the AT secondary powerset. Also SR comes with scaling damage resistance baked in (and of course we will be grabbing the scaling damage resistance IO too).

 

So here is a go at it. No doubt someone will come along with better but sucks to be first.  Went with Experimentation. While juicier when you can grab Hasten with it (particularly peram-Hasten) there just was not room for Hasten. But the buff from Adrenal Booster was too good to pass up.

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.1.2
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Ice Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Experimentation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Ice Sword -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(7)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(7), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(9), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), LucoftheG-Def(11), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(11)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(19), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(19), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 4: Speed of Sound -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 6: Toxic Dart -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Kick -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(25), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Mk'Bit-Dam%(27)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Lnch-Jump(29), Lnch-End/Jump(29), Lnch-End(31), Lnch-+Special(31)
Level 14: Jump Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Cross Punch -- FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(A), FuroftheG-Dam/Rech(31), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(33), Erd-Acc/Rchg(33), Erd-%Dam(33), Arm-Dam%(34)
Level 20: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(34), UnbGrd-ResDam(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(36)
Level 26: Spring Attack -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Rchg(37), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(37), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 28: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(39), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 32: Adrenal Booster -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(42), HO:Membr(42)
Level 35: Soul Tentacles -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(43), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Ann-ResDeb%(45)
Level 38: Victory Rush -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Ann-ResDeb%(48)
Level 44: Summon Widow -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(48), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(48), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50), BldMnd-Acc(50), BldMnd-Dmg(50)
Level 47: [Empty] 
Level 49: [Empty] 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Prv-Heal(13), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg(15), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(15), Prv-Absorb%(17)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(17)
------------

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[Six-Six]

The idea is not as silly as it sounds. It's called the pool boy challenge, and several people including myself have completed it. I enjoyed it so much that I have 2 more in their early 30s.

So, here's a shot at it:
AT: Brute. Because I am Broot.
Primary: Psionic Melee T1 or T2.
I think Psi Melee makes the "losing access to super powers" easier to RP.

 

Secondary: Bio Armour.
I'd go with Bio Armour because Bio's T1 and T2 offer more value than the other secondaries. You get Lethal, Smashing, Toxic, Disorient, Sleep, Slow and End drain res + regen and recovery. Other armours have these too, but at later levels.

Force of Will OR Leaping
Surprisingly, FoW gels very well with Psi melee in terms of animation, concept and even sound effects. Mighty leap's Takeoff is also a rather useful cc for what it's worth; and unleash potential is simply awesome IMHO. unfortunately, the other powers animate really slllloooowwww... which may contribute to the RP (him having trouble with powers). However, Leaping has CJ which is a very good bang for your buck. Super Jump is redundant with Mighty Leap; as is Spring Attack is with Takeoff, but the former deals damage. If you choose Leaping, then you can take Experimentation and do what @roleki stated above.

Note about Sorcery.
With Bio armour, you won't need to rely on Rune of Protection as much. And if your toon concept doesn't fly, then it's a waste of Flight, which can slot some nifty set bonuses. However, Arcane Bolt and Enflame are really good.

Fighting.
In lieu of your failing powers, this will be your main damage dealer. You may not have most of your powers, but you can still throw a punch. Read the bit about the attacks synergising, then if slotted right, could be quite an effective attack chain (you can even throw in brawl). Of course, with your secondaries missing, Fight and Weave are that much more important.

Presence.
Hey, you've lost your powers, but your enemies don't need to know about it. Intimidate and Invoke Panic before they wise up... or Pacify =). You also get Unrelenting, which is another winner.

Leadership.
Powers guzzle end like there's no tomorrow, but they are quite effective. 

I rarely take Super Speed and Concealment on my toons, so I am in no position to discuss them. 

For your Epic Pool, I would suggest Mace Mastery. not only would Scorpion Shield be very useful to a brute, but you can RP the Mace attacks + pets as having to rely on some tech when you realised your powers were gone.

[Gruntius]

alright, thank you everyone for your suggestions so far. I'm liking the suggestions, let me give you my overall thoughts

 

Primary

I really like street justice and it would really look good with the fighting pool powers, the only problem I'm having with it is an RP one. From and RP perspective Street Justice and Fighting are essentially the same thing, how do I rationalize someone losing access to one and not the other?

For Ice Melee and Psi Melee, every time I've seen people mention -recharge and -speed on the forums they usually talk about how these debuffs underperform in the grand scheme of things, but maybe they only meant it in regards to how fast teams kill enemies and it would be more viable solo?

What do you guys think of a more crowd control based primary like Super Strength, T2 of Kinetic Melee or Stone Melee?

 

Secondary

I'm a big fan of a lot of the suggestions here. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard defense is more important than resistance because it allows you to dodge mezzes as well as damage and it's easier to cap, so I'm tempted to go with either Super Reflexes for it's high melee and ranged defense in its first two powers or Energy Aura because it gives both smashing and lethal (the two most common damage types) defense and resistance, however I completely agree with @Six-Six that Bio Armor is a beast of a beginning power. As a side note I really love the regeneration suggestion from @InvaderStych because it would make the character feel very weak and squishy which is good because of their background but I probably won't go with it. I'm really stuck on this one

 

Power Pools

Little note, since I'm soloing I don't tend to care about travel powers that much, I'm more than happy to skip them in favor of more power slots and P2W travel powers. Unless there's something unique and fun about them like FoW's knock down jump

Fighting: This is a given, I don't see any universe where I don't take fighting with this build

leaping: Is another one of the pools that originally made me wanna do this build, when I was a stupid kid back on live I took leaping on one of my toons and had a lot of fun with spring attack, I kinda wanted to recapture that with this build

Leadership: I'll be honest I'm very tired of taking leadership, I play Mastermind mostly and if you're not taking leadership as a Mastermind you're not playing Mastermind, I was hoping to avoid it in favor of more fun options, unless you guys think the buffs are too important to pass up?

Speed: If I know CoH Hasten will probably become a must have power, probably to keep RoP/UF/AB perma'd. what do you guys think of whirlwind?

Medicine: I'm surprised no one has really mentioned this one yet, Aid self + field medic sounds pretty good for this build

presence: Aggro play isn't something I'm well versed in but it sounds like it could be fun, especially if I could find a way to perma unrelenting with some other clickies

Teleportation: I like the idea of picking the enemies off one by one when I'm in a jam but nothing else really interests me here

Force of Will: Really fits with the theme of the build, gives ranged options and has a great clicky buff. all around good choice for this build I think

Sorcery: Enflame sounds good, Rune of protections sounds really good and arcane bold sounds alright but I'll probably shelve this for one of the other two specialist powers

experimentation: So after reading what @roleki said about this pool and after reading up on it in the wiki, I can't imagine why I was avoiding this pool, it sounds awesome

Flight and concealment: I don't really see these getting into the build under any circumstance except where I desperately need one more def toggle

Overview: So for right now I'm thinking Fighting, leaping, presence and experimentation, any thoughts on that? Does that leave me with any notable blind spots?

 

Epic Pools

I'll come clean, I have a minor case of altitis, most of my toons are sitting at lvl 30 with a single lucky sole that made it to 50. As such I don't have a lot of experience with epic pools

 

Misc

11 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

The character lost access to their super powers but is getting pool powers which are themselves...super powers? 😛

I could have sworn when I was playing back on live I read something about the power pools having an in game explanation that was outside of your characters normal super powers, something connected to the Well of Furies but I can't find that information anywhere, I might be misremembering 

 

13 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Not sure it matters all that much; I don't remember if any Stalkers get AS by 4, so perhaps not one of those?  The other 3 melee would benefit better from their inherent on a project like this.  Seems like a "dealer's choice" sort of moment.

Specifically I thought Brute was the best choice because of all the archetypes they needed a team the least, being a kind of mid point between a Scrapper and a Tanker. I assumed I had the most flexibility with them and therefore could get away with silly builds like this one more easily

 

11 hours ago, roleki said:

Experimentation is actually pretty decent for melee types, especially Brutes.

Thanks for changing my mind on this, I don't know why I wrote experimentation off so easily

[Six-Six]

Awesome!

A quick note on Experimentation: I like Speed of Sound the most when it comes to immersion. It's the only travel power that behaves "realistically" other than Flight. When it's on, you have a tendency to bump into things--think of Flash just getting the hang of his powers. I especially enjoy the inertia and the fact that you can't change direction in mid air like Mighty Leap or Super Jump. That said, Jaunt will take care of your Teleport problems. And while you may not find much use for the first two powers if your toon will be solo (save for the occasional missions with NPC Allies), Corrosive Vial is underrated. 

Here are the binds I use for Jaunt:
/bind [key] powexec_location Target Jaunt -- TPs you directly in front of your selected target
/bind [key] powexec_location Back:40 Jaunt -- TPs you away from melee at a distance for most short ranged cones (you may change the distance by increments of 5)
/bind [key] powexec_location cursor Jaunt -- TPs you to where your mouse pointer is at.

With these three, you can fire from range, TP in (you'll arrive almost simultaneously with your projectile) TP out and back in or next target. It's a blast once you get the hang of it... and as long as you sort out SoS's end guzzling.

Enjoy your spanking new toon.

[Sovera]

Street Justice has no powers, it's literally kicking and punching. So there is no rationale, you're kicking and punching, be it from StJ or Fighting Pool. Now Psi and Ice are powers, we get FX each time one is used.

 

Upside of Street Justice is also the very fast recharge.

 

Spring Attack is frankly terrible. You're glossing over Air Superiority in Fly though. It recharges fast and is a nice CC.

 

You can't perma Rune of Protection, and Field Medic is just terrible. I squeezed it in many builds and tried to make it work, but it's a 4 second interruptible animation, so two slots are dedicated to interrupt reduction which still isn't enough if you're standing on fire.

 

As someone who has lost their powers I don't see you using Hover or even Combat Jumping, but Athletic Run and Sprint is all you're going to need (though, y'know, running faster than a car seems pretty super powered still).

 

For a secondary I don't recall how FX intrusive Bio is but it's what I'd suggest. You get the anti-CC toggle, regen&recovery, and a S/L res toggle by level 4.

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sovera

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

For a secondary I don't recall how FX intrusive Bio is but it's what I'd suggest. You get the anti-CC toggle, regen&recovery, and a S/L res toggle by level 4.

 

Bio has a minimal FX option. My understanding was that only T1 and T2 powers were available.

 

But Hardened Carapace does give some coverage and pool powers would nicely augment it.

[Gruntius]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Street Justice has no powers, it's literally kicking and punching. So there is no rationale, you're kicking and punching, be it from StJ or Fighting Pool. Now Psi and Ice are powers, we get FX each time one is used.

12 hours ago, Gruntius said:

I really like street justice and it would really look good with the fighting pool powers, the only problem I'm having with it is an RP one. From and RP perspective Street Justice and Fighting are essentially the same thing, how do I rationalize someone losing access to one and not the other?

Same wavelength

 

Why is Spring Attack terrible?

 

I was worried rune of protection couldn’t be perma’d what about Unleash Potential, Adrenal Booster and Unrelenting?

 

My rational is that the power pools are separate from a persons normal super powers, so I’m okay with the power pools still giving them powers. I think the NPCs even mention “giving you access to them” when you turn level 4. Even if that’s not the case I can just pretend it is

[Yomo Kimyata]

Some of the power pools have some damage-dealing utility you may overlook at first.  Check out my pool section in this thread.

[Sovera]

30 minutes ago, Gruntius said:

Why is Spring Attack terrible?

 

 

 

120 seconds recharge for 67 damage.

 

 

 

Shadow Punch recharges in 3 seconds and does 57 damage.

 

 

I know it's an AoE, but, still.

[Six-Six]

Haha, because of this, I revisited my parked pool boy. He's a Psi/Bio Scrapper. Currently level 32, I respec-ed into

T2 Primary, T1 + T2 Secondary
All of Fighting Pool + Brawl... and maybe Sands of Mu if I can fit it in the power tray where my fingers can reach them (heehee)
Will be taking all of Leaping except T1 (Jump Kick)
Same with Experimentation (all except Exp Injection)
All of Presence except Provoke
And I'm eyeing Weapons Mastery or Mace Mastery (still got 3 levels before I decide). I don't have MIDS so I pretty much build by ear. 

Thanks for the revitalisation of a toon 😃

Oh, and IIRC, you can use Air Superiority even when you're not flying.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Six-Six

[Gruntius]

@Sovera That’s a very good analysis and I respect it, however as Spring Attack feels really cool to use I’m going to take it anyways

 

@Six-Six I’m really glad I could revive one of your toons for you. Since you and Sovera are both pulling for Bio I think that’s what I’ll go. Still not entirely set on the primary but I think my pool choices are pretty well set (same as yours) and I’ll figure out my epic pool when I get there

[Snarky]

Good Luck with this.  Taking a Brute is a good idea. A lot of the ATs power is their health and fury.  Take a armor set that has mez prot early if there is one lol.  Or take Willpower and all its powers.  (Except rez and the tier 9).  That would give the “feel” of not having powers since will is set and forget famous.  Take secondary attacks from the power pools.  The punch from the flight pool is decent.  You will never get a big attack but you will do okay.  Super strength.  You will not get rage but you will get some decent attacks by level 4.  Also fits thematically with having no real powers. Again, good luck.  Have fun

[Gruntius]

@Snarky Yeah, you're pretty much right, that's mostly what ended up happening. I went Super Strength/Bio Armor, gives regen, max HP, recovery, resists S/L/T and some sleep and stun protection

 

Here's the finished product, haven't gotten very far with her yet. Working undercover with the Loyalists and I ran into a bug that stops me from progressing, posted it in the bug section already. I'll have to shelve her until it's fixed, oh well. Thanks for all of your help guys! Couldn't have done it without you

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Gruntius
better picture