Imagine if CoH Were to Go Commercial Again

[cohRock]

Unless NCSoft ever decides to sell the CoH IP cheap, I doubt the game will ever go commercial again.  Basically, many would think of it as "yesterday's game."  (Note that Ultima Online is still going, and by that standard, UO is "last week's game".)  That said, here's a thought experiment.  What would it take to make CoH commercially viable?

 

My first thought is that a number of the p2w freebies would need to go back to their initial status.  Non-mission features like Walking and Disable All Powers would remain free  This was as either cash purchases or obtainable for monthly tickets earned by subscribers.  Full time devs would need to be able to earn a living, so we game lovers would need to begin financial support again.  Another step to viability would be advertising, which also costs money.

 

My examples (your ideas are welcome):

1. Re-offer a subscription model.  Subscribers would earn 2-5 tickets per month which could be used to purchase cash add-ons.  Subscription cost would be about $10/month if bought 6 months at a time (more/month for lesser intervals).
2. The game would maintain a free-to-play option as before.  IIRC a free account could have 2 characters total.  This limitation should be expanded to maybe 2 characters/server.  Legacy Homecoming players could access 5 pre-existing characters/server, allowing for  a significant number of their current characters.  They could move characters between servers to maximize the number of their available characters, and for general flexibility.
3. Subscribers could still have up to 1000 characters/server.  (Has anyone actually had 1000 characters on one server??)  This wouldn't increase server load (except character storage -- nowadays likely a non-issue), because players would still be limited to one active character per account.
4. Any formerly-free p2w powers would be canceled.  However subscribers who were Homecoming players would be granted an up-front subscription bonus of a month's worth of subscription tickets for each month they actively played.  This would be limited to a 6-month maximum.  I recognize cancelling anything will lead to a backlash, but in the interests of commercial viability, an influx of cash up-front would likely be a necessity.
5. As an example of what an in-game purchase might cost, let's look at the experience bonuses.  These (at least the double-xp one) did not yet exist on the live Live servers, but had been on Live's Beta, free for testing.  A workable price would scale according to the bonus.  The 25% xp would cost 25 cents/hour.  You would have to purchase at least a dollar's worth at a time, though (same as the other levels).  One subscription ticket would be good for 8 hours at 25%.  50% xp would cost 50 cents/hour, and one subscription ticket would be good for 4 hours.  Double xp would cost $1/hour, and one subscription ticket would be good for 2 hours.
6. Monetize instant alignment changes via Null the Gull.  (Going thru the alignment+morality missions process would remain free, however.)  Cost would be 1 subscription ticket or $2 if paying cash.
7. Prestige travel powers such as Jump Pack or Beast Run would cost 1 subscription ticket or $2.
8. Note that a single ticket equated to about a $2 in-game purchase.
9. If permission could be obtained from whoever owns Mids, Vidiot Maps, and other third-party extensions, these could be offered as separate downloads directly from whoever owns CoH.  I'm wording it this way to avoid any responsibility to the company for third-party software.  Although I'd certainly have no objection if the company did assume responsibility for the maintenance and upkeep of them.
10. Should the developers be interested, features from the CoH replacement projects might slowly be implemented within a revitalized CoH.  I realize adapting such features would likely be a headache, having to be adapted into the likely convoluted code of CoH.  That said, those developers might contribute their expertise to this process and receive some compensation for so doing.  A long-term from-scratch rewrite would be the ideal, and it obviously would not have to avoid the IP hurdles potentially plaguing these projects.

 

Even if you don't think CoH could ever be commercially viable, I'd like to hear why you think so.  And if you could set that aside and offer ideas for what might help, it would be appreciated.  My goals included allowing players significant access to game features even if not subscribing, and offering substantial value to those willing and able to subscribe.

Edited December 29, 2021 by cohRock

[Shenanigunner]

And this would be an improvement (or change) from the HC model... how?

 

All I see is that a volunteer/donation model would be replaced with a corporation/profit model. I doubt the numbers would support any revamp or improvement of the game greater than what our talented and dedicated Dev team is already doing.

 

 

I do find it endlessly odd that superhero sims are the red-headed stepchild of the gaming industry. I am boggled at the endless appetite for games in a small handful of genres; just how much hyperreal marine combat sims can you play? CoX leads the pack, at least in non-branded play, and has barely scratched the surface of what the genre can support. But no, it's all a dusty clearance bin while gamers buy Far Cry Halo Black Ops at first announcement... repeatedly.

 

I see no gain in taking CoX back to that model.

[PeregrineFalcon]

45 minutes ago, cohRock said:

What would it take to make CoH commercially viable?

It depends on what exactly you mean by commercially viable.

 

Just enough money to pay for expenses? Approx 400 subscribers at $15/month would provide $6,000/month, which would be enough to cover current listed expenses.

 

Enough money to pay salaries for The Council of Thirteen? Approx 4,000 subscribers at $15/month would provide $60,000/month. This would be enough to cover expenses and pay 13 developers $50,000 annual income. This assumes that Homecoming is set up as a tax exempt non-profit.

[SeraphimKensai]

It's not a viable property to go commercial ever again as the source code has leaked out to the public. I'd rather not play whack a mole with cease and desist letters and potential legal action for something that can be sprung up for realistically fairly cheaply. Case in point I've had 25 ppl on my own private server and I could of probably had more I just ran out of people that I wanted to invite for my test launch. And since everyone and their mothers have access to the binaries no company could ever really make a substantial profit off this game as it is.

 

That said the IP could be developed into a Full Length Feature Film and do fairly well. We have a rough plot line, overcome with destruction by invasion the Freedom Phalanx knocks on my door and begs for me to end the invasion single handedly while all the other players watch on in awe. Otherwise a limited Series on Netflix could spur CoX2, and tie in with comics again and potential toys.

 

Realistically I don't see anything happening with the IP.

 

[Shenanigunner]

16 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Realistically I don't see anything happening with the IP.

 

I do, but it's not pretty.

 

NCsoft's peculiar attitude and position can be explained by a double-ended assumption: the current IP is next to worthless; even if they were to take it over, give nice bonuses to the HC Devs and put it back on the commercial market, it would likely be a financial failure.

 

But.

 

The IP in the larger sense is potentially quite valuable; CoX 2 has every potential to be a  mega-game, GOTY, cash-cow, residuals-churning monster... just not now. Or next year. Maybe in five years, or ten; it costs NCsoft nothing to reserve all their rights while making the occasional stern face HC's direction. And if a superhero MMO never becomes a good idea again, even in some uber-VR/Ready Player One future... it costs them nothing to keep the chips under guard.

 

 

(Written from the perspective of someone who holds a valuable key piece of a well-known IP... but subject to the control of a majority owner who has sat on it for 35 years in just this fashion, holding out for what might be profitable someday and unwilling to let it go cheap just because there's no interest or widespread piracy of the old material.)

[cohRock]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

And this would be an improvement (or change) from the HC model... how?

It would eliminate the ghost hanging over our heads.  At any time, NCSoft could order the shut down the fan servers, and Homecoming as we know it would go away.   Also, an active, employed by CoH, development stuff would focus full time on the game.  The current Homecoming developers are doing a great job, but imagine what they could accomplish if they didn't have to work a full-time job elsewhere.

 

@SeraphimKensai, yes, the Homecoming code base is "out there", and fan servers would continue to run.  The same is true with Ultima Online, which has had fan servers for decades.  So the argument that fan servers would automatically doom a commercial implementation is by no means a sure thing.  Since the commercial game would offer a free-play option, many casual and even dedicated players would choose to play on the official servers.  Many non-subscribers would even contribute financially via in-game purchases.

Edited December 29, 2021 by cohRock

[Mezmera]

I'm much happier with allowing this to stay in the hands of people that cared enough about the game to learn the inner workings of the game on their own time to sustain its life and to be able to create such great new stuff.  

 

No to another commercial venture.  Yes to being able to see these volunteers being more recognized and well compensated.  And may all of the other offshoots thrive as well.  

Edited December 29, 2021 by Mezmera

[cohRock]

2 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

...

No to another commercial venture.  Yes to being able to see these volunteers being well compensated.  And may all of the other offshoots thrive as well.  

I don't follow.  Right now our developers are compensated by us giving them a virtual pat on the back for a job well done.  Does this amount to "well compensated"?

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, cohRock said:

I don't follow.  Right now our developers are compensated by us giving them a virtual pat on the back for a job well done.  Does this amount to "well compensated"?

 

I don't want to see this become an industrialized game again.  But I'd like to see the people working on this to see some industrial standard gaming compensation beyond the donation ceiling and "pat on the back", along with being able to be recognized for it by having it be allowed to officially be on their resume.  

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, cohRock said:

At any time, NCSoft could order the shut down the fan servers, and Homecoming as we know it would go away.

Not necessarily.

 

While the current Homecoming servers are in NA, I seem to remember that, in the beginning, they were located in another country. In the event that NCSoft sends a cease and desist the servers can be migrated to a country that doesn't have legal reciprocity with SK or the US.

 

This is why I'm not concerned about Homecoming shutting down. I also believe that it's one of the reasons why NCSoft hasn't sent a cease and desist, because it would just make them look weak and foolish. It's probably also the reason that the devs don't want to reveal their secret identities.

[biostem]

The subscription model for MMOs, IMO, has all but vanished in terms of popularity.  Aside from a steady stream of microtransactions, which would either rely on things like costume sets/pieces or otherwise gating current "normal features" behind a paywall, (color changing powers, alternate animations, locking entire sets or ATs), how would you fund this venture?  You'd need to keep the treadmill going, so either adding "50+ levels" or other forms of progression would also be necessary.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Personally, I'd just go with a subscription model. I really hate the nickel and dimeing of the in game store microtransaction model. And don't even get me started on gamble boxes.

 

I don't care if subscriptions have vanished in terms of popularity. You know what else isn't really popular anymore? 17 year old MMOs.

 

Perhaps they could even go with a hybrid model. Free players get 10 slots per server, subscribers get the 1,000 slots per server.

[Dazl]

Why couldn’t you use the current donation system even if the game was open to making a profit? We would all agree the devs should get something for the effort. Why couldn’t that just be factored into the donations? I doubt we will ever have an issue with getting enough donations.

[cohRock]

31 minutes ago, Dazl said:

Why couldn’t you use the current donation system even if the game was open to making a profit? We would all agree the devs should get something for the effort. Why couldn’t that just be factored into the donations? I doubt we will ever have an issue with getting enough donations.

I'd help fund the game that way.  As it is, their monthly window for donations is so short and filled so quickly, it's quite likely fully open donations would be rewarding, even if still a labor of love.

[JnEricsonx]

8 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

I do, but it's not pretty.

 

NCsoft's peculiar attitude and position can be explained by a double-ended assumption: the current IP is next to worthless; even if they were to take it over, give nice bonuses to the HC Devs and put it back on the commercial market, it would likely be a financial failure.

 

But.

 

The IP in the larger sense is potentially quite valuable; CoX 2 has every potential to be a  mega-game, GOTY, cash-cow, residuals-churning monster... just not now. Or next year. Maybe in five years, or ten; it costs NCsoft nothing to reserve all their rights while making the occasional stern face HC's direction. And if a superhero MMO never becomes a good idea again, even in some uber-VR/Ready Player One future... it costs them nothing to keep the chips under guard.

 

 

(Written from the perspective of someone who holds a valuable key piece of a well-known IP... but subject to the control of a majority owner who has sat on it for 35 years in just this fashion, holding out for what might be profitable someday and unwilling to let it go cheap just because there's no interest or widespread piracy of the old material.)

Any hint as to what that IP is?

[FrogTheToad]

I don't think Homecoming would ever go back to a subscription service, but I see if they had the rights, they might open a Patreon and gain continuous support that way.

[Shenanigunner]

13 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You know what else isn't really popular anymore? 17 year old MMOs.

 

I quite stiffly beg to differ. I will take not one but two 17-year-old Marilyn Monroe omnibots as soon as you can ship them.

[SuggestorK]

16 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

And if a superhero MMO never becomes a good idea again, even in some uber-VR/Ready Player One future... it costs them nothing to keep the chips under guard.

 

Oh boy, that final fight in Ready Player One combined with all Might The CoX Chars could have blown into IOI, would have raised it from Epic to Legendary 😉 .

 

Just imagined Mechagodzilla in Fight with 3 Stone Tankers (someone say Jurassik)  and then got hit instantly with a dozen Nukes from Blaster /Sentinel... +  Sniper Attacks.. would have blown the Screen apart ^^

Edited December 30, 2021 by SuggestorK

[Shenanigunner]

1 minute ago, SuggestorK said:

Oh boy, that final fight in Ready Player One...

 

...makes my WASD fingers twitch uncontrollably, and honest, I'm not that much of a gamer. Glorious.

 

I am holding out high hopes for the Borderlands movie. The casting is superb and the production hints are right up there.

[Ukase]

If they tried to commercialize this in the precise manner in which the OP suggests, at least half the player base would quit, instantly. At least half.

In item 2 in the list :  Legacy Homecoming players could access 5 pre-existing characters/server, allowing for  a significant number of their current characters. 


Do you know what the term significant means? I can't speak for everyone, but most everyone I know and have teamed with in this game has hundreds of characters. Not just 25. And having 5 characters on another server is like not having them. I don't think many players bounce around from server to server playing this day on Excelsior and that day on Everlasting, etc. 
And if I couldn't play them, I could deal with that, but because I couldn't play them, I'd have to respec them all and take out all the enhancements and sell them because I don't have enough storage for all the enhancements - and because they're 50, I'd have to respec them twice to get all of them out. 
This wouldn't be fun in the least. It would be annoying. In fact, I wouldn't do it, I'd just quit playing altogether. 5 characters...sheesh. 


During this pandemic, most folks suffered some sort of economic hardship. Loss of hours, loss of job...kids moving back in - some sort of issue. It will take some time to "catch up" to where they were before. Most would likely not pay. Maybe 10-20% of the folks that are playing now. You can advertise all you want...it may bring in some new folks - but will you keep them? No way to know. 

With all the ridiculousness in that list, you're basically telling people to subscribe, or be ripped off. That's really it. 2xp bonus payable by the hour? In real cash? Nobody sane is going to pay for that. An insta-50, perhaps. A token dollar, maybe. 

If you monetized alignment changes, you might as well tell redside players to kick rocks. And they probably would, too. It would be even more scarce than it is now. 

A better solution would be to hope things stay as they are. 



 

[Ukase]

19 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

It depends on what exactly you mean by commercially viable.

 

Just enough money to pay for expenses? Approx 400 subscribers at $15/month would provide $6,000/month, which would be enough to cover current listed expenses.

 

Enough money to pay salaries for The Council of Thirteen? Approx 4,000 subscribers at $15/month would provide $60,000/month. This would be enough to cover expenses and pay 13 developers $50,000 annual income. This assumes that Homecoming is set up as a tax exempt non-profit.

Given various variable and fixed costs aside from payroll itself, I think the sub rate per month would have to increase to $25/mo, per account. For each dollar an employer deducts from payroll, they have to match a portion of those taxes for unemployment, not to mention 401k matching & other perks - like paid vacations & the like. Legal expenses would likely increase, too. I don't know what all the new expenses would be, but I'd wager there'd be a lot of them. 

I think in addition to them being non-profit, they should also be a charity - where profits over 10% are donated to other known charities, and the 10% held in reserve for hard times (and perhaps expansion)

[Snarky]

At this point, for me personally, any iteration of CoH/CoV that is not managed by Homecoming is 1) competing with the primary established community of hardcore CoH players 2) if done for money just automatically suspect. 2a) I have no problems with people earning.  I wish HC could monetize this.  I would pay a monthly fee.  But we all know what a many source cash driven market supply of CoX would be.  Nightmare. 3) walking away from the steady and wonderful improvements and daily work put in by the true fans of CoH.  The HC staff and volunteers 

 

With respect, as much fun as it can be to imagine, I do not think this is helping move anything forward or in a positive direction 

[JasperStone]

I subscribed to both Dungeons and Dragons Online and also Elder Scrolls just to have something to play once CoH was shut down.

 

The yearly subscriptions gave me access to certain, but still I had to buy in game currency in order to obtain certain things. I just did with out.

Elder Scrolls were the worst at teasing you to get the higher level subscription to get those weekly/monthly rewards.

in those games I had two characters total, one for each game.

CoH I only have 50. One server. Though right now I am focusing on one, normally I rotate through my character list.

 

I'd be fine with a yearly subscription, but only if I have the same level of access as now. 

Man, I would love for our HC staff to compensated for their work.

....

What about the people who don't want to subscribed? What are they limited to accessing?

Will they stay, most likely not.

[PeregrineFalcon]

You see, this is what I love about people. People are hilarious and full of contradictions.

 

Many posts in this thread boil down to "I won't pay any money" but also "The Homecoming developers deserve to get paid for their work."

 

You all are too funny.

[Luminara]

All of this conjecture is founded on some critical oversights.  There's no data to indicate that the HC team wants to develop for Co* full-time.  Or that any of the proposed financial models would equal or exceed their current incomes.  Or that they have grandiose intentions of re-introducing Co* to the world as a financially successful product.

 

And a thread like this might be misinterpreted as pressure to do all of those things.

 

Just one of those crazy thoughts that pop into my head from time to time.