Sweeping defense changes

[Bill Z Bubba]

  On 1/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Haijinx said:

That sort of system was never intended to only live on one rail or the other.  They figured the players would live more in the mediocre area.

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And it worked, mostly, with SOs. Only softcapped blasters back then happened if they had multiple buffers. Then the devs broke it with inventions. Again, the system is fine. Being able to softcap a squishy solo (and extrapolating that to how stupid we can get our melee characters) is the problem. Therefore, inventions are the problem. Nerf set bonuses into the dirt if you want to fix it.

[Aurora_Girl]

  On 1/20/2022 at 11:56 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Therefore, inventions are the problem. Nerf set bonuses into the dirt if you want to fix it.

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Aaaaaaaand say goodbye to your players. 

[Luminara]

  On 1/20/2022 at 12:39 PM, Aurora_Girl said:

 

Aaaaaaaand say goodbye to your players. 

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Eh.  ToHit debuffs still exist, Defense buffs still stack, toggles aren't mutually exclusive, wouldn't be remotely difficult to compensate.  And that's without delving into inspirations and temp powers.

 

It's also worth mentioning that despite the "ZOMG TEH GAME IS TEH RUINT BCUZ OF DEFNESE" complaints from a few players, the HC team hasn't gone on a festival of nerfs and power reductions, they've done the opposite, buffing under-performing sets, and have created an entirely new category of challenge modes specifically to cater to the "My damage mitigation is huge, son!" crowd.  They're not going to take a dump on the casual crowd by nerfing IO set bonuses into the ground, no matter how loudly the Defense haters shout.

 

[KaizenSoze]

  On 1/20/2022 at 11:56 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

And it worked, mostly, with SOs. Only softcapped blasters back then happened if they had multiple buffers. Then the devs broke it with inventions. Again, the system is fine. Being able to softcap a squishy solo (and extrapolating that to how stupid we can get our melee characters) is the problem. Therefore, inventions are the problem. Nerf set bonuses into the dirt if you want to fix it.

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Or just add more mobs with nasty debuffs. I think I am one of the few players that enjoy fighting carnies, because they are a challenge.

 

Some of this comes from playing Widows which are one the best ATs to fight carnies.

 

If I mention carnies to most players they shutter and ask to pick another mission if it's radios.

 

Carnies have some of the nastiest debuffs on top of the phasing. They can nuke your defense, resists, toHit, and recovery. Then avoid your return fire.

 

Also, Arachnos can be devastating on defense based chars w/o good DDR. If you get enough Tarantula Mistresses.

 

Aeon's SF is such a great step in that direction. So, I think devs are already thinking this way.

[arcane]

  On 1/20/2022 at 5:56 AM, Rudra said:

That is getting back into the weeds again. Basically, if it takes you more than a half hour to clear a 5-minute mission, sure, you may have soloed it, but you are not an effective soloist. I don't know how other solo players feel, but taking a week to finish a mission as a single player isn't soloing except in the strictly technical sense, it is self-torture. That is likely how Frozen Burn feels too, but he would have to answer that. Now, back to the regularly scheduled tail chasing, I mean circular arguing, I mean OP discussion.

 

(Not to cut you off, but we have been down too many rabbit holes on this thread and it really should have died after the first response.)

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You keep using hyperbole to describe the speeds of slower characters, and it only shows that you can’t fathom what a properly built one looks like. Most likely explanation is you’re probably bad.

[Solarverse]

  On 1/19/2022 at 2:37 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Yes, the game is too easy. And it's just going to get easier.

 

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The new Aeon mission is nice though, I can take a controller and actually feel useful again. I think the answer is not to nerf, but to create tougher content that requires balanced teams fighting mobs that are equipped to handle IOs and Incarnates. making new content that cannot be done unless you are well built, fully armed with incarnates AND have a well built team is the way to go. Make end game make your IOed out, Incarnate power having keester feel the pain this game once made you feel before i5, and you've got a winner for end game content. Aeon isn't it, but it sure is a step in the right direction.

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 1:46 PM, arcane said:

You keep using hyperbole to describe the speeds of slower characters, and it only shows that you can’t fathom what a properly built one looks like. Most likely explanation is you’re probably bad.

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Yep. I'm an absolutely terrible player. Can't even finish a level 1 mission as a level 50 at -1/x1. I already know I'm not as good as some of you. I can't solo +4/x8 with just any character like the rest of you. You want to actually discuss the OP or just attack me? The whole point is that guess what? Some of us are not uber players. So if you think the game is too easy, play it the way the OP says you can. No IOs. So no procs and no set bonuses. No incarnate powers including the passive buffs and the passive debuff. Then try +4/x8. Still too easy? Use DOs instead of SOs. Still too easy? Use TOs instead of DOs. Still too easy? Don't use enhancements.  Still too easy? Pick a team-centric AT and focus on team buff powers. A lot of those can't be used on the granting player without a different player applying it. Regardless, the game is as challenging as you choose to make it. So stop trying to say it needs to be more difficult.

[ZacKing]

  On 1/20/2022 at 2:01 PM, Solarverse said:

I think the answer is not to nerf, but to create tougher content that requires balanced teams fighting mobs that are equipped to handle IOs and Incarnates. making new content that cannot be done unless you are well built, fully armed with incarnates AND have a well built team is the way to go. Make end game make your IOed out, Incarnate power having keester feel the pain this game once made you feel before i5, and you've got a winner for end game content. 

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100% agreed!  Wish people would stop nerfherding and look toward the future.

[arcane]

  On 1/20/2022 at 2:58 PM, Rudra said:

[More “you want challenges? Why are you using the tools every player is using? Why have you not self-gimped?” logically fallacious drivel]

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Oh not this crap again. Grow up and use your brain.

 

People are allowed to want challenges on maxed out characters, not just gutted ones. You can disagree but it only means you don’t know how video games work. No game is intentionally designed with “well if they wanted a challenge they would obviously opt out of every feature in the game” as its approach. People need to stop repeating that tremendously stupid idea.

Edited January 20, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:08 PM, arcane said:

Oh not this crap again. Grow up and use your brain.

 

People are allowed to want challenges on maxed out characters, not just gutted ones. You can disagree but it only means you don’t know how video games work. No game is intentionally designed with “well if they wanted a challenge they would obviously opt out of every feature in the game” as its approach. People need to stop repeating that tremendously stupid idea.

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So only players that can play at your level are allowed to play the game then? Because that is exactly what you are saying. "I'm an uber player that is bored because content is not aimed at challenging me specifically. So increase the difficulty so only I can play."

[UltraAlt]

  On 1/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Sirius.Games said:

The game is easy, let's be honest. You don't need IOs or incarnates for a number of sets.

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Okay. If you don't tweak up the difficulty, and run at -1.

Players can run pretty well with SO at least up to +2 most of the time.

 

 

  On 1/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Sirius.Games said:

There is a time intensive fix.

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Er, what?

 

The game doesn't need wide-sweeping changes to core mechanics.

We are here playing this game because we enjoy it as it is.

 

The DEVs tweaking some things is one thing.

You are proposing massive changes. These simply do not need to be done. The game is functioning fine without your proposed changes.

 

  On 1/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Sirius.Games said:

1. Remove types for defenses

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  On 1/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Sirius.Games said:

2. Remove dual type defenses

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  On 1/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Sirius.Games said:

3. Increase the accuracy floor or the guaranteed hit roll increase

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Oh, so you want those with defense to get nerfed.

Seems pretty bais.

I guess your characters rely upon resistance for damage mitigation instead of avoiding being hit.

 

Yeah. I'm totally against your ideas proposed here.

 

----

I shouldn't have take time to even post on this thread. I didn't look at the posters stats.

The starting post is very trollish in my opinion. 

I should have learned by now that the community is changing.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by UltraAlt

[arcane]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:20 PM, Rudra said:

So only players that can play at your level are allowed to play the game then? Because that is exactly what you are saying. "I'm an uber player that is bored because content is not aimed at challenging me specifically. So increase the difficulty so only I can play."

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You can do everything I can do in this game. I don’t have some special dashboard of cheat codes at my disposal. Again, we’re not really using logic here are we.

Edited January 20, 2022 by arcane

[Solarverse]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:20 PM, Rudra said:

So only players that can play at your level are allowed to play the game then? Because that is exactly what you are saying. "I'm an uber player that is bored because content is not aimed at challenging me specifically. So increase the difficulty so only I can play."

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To be fair, players who wanted this game to be easy got their way. I think it's only fair that players who prefer a challenge get content that better suits them. It's not about exclusion, it's about inclusion. Whether or not you want to build in such a way that you can run that content, is entirely up to you. I think you are looking at it all wrong.

[UltraAlt]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:20 PM, Rudra said:

So only players that can play at your level are allowed to play the game then? Because that is exactly what you are saying. "I'm an uber player that is bored because content is not aimed at challenging me specifically. So increase the difficulty so only I can play."

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Any player that thinks the game isn't difficult enough can unslot all their enhancements, delete out all their P2W powers, set their difficulty at +4,8, run solo, and see if the game is challenging enough.

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:22 PM, arcane said:

You can do everything I can do in this game. I don’t have some special dashboard of cheat codes at my disposal. Again, we’re not really using logic here are we.

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I don't recall saying anyone had a dashboard of cheats....

Anyway, yes, I have access to all the same powers and enhancements that you do. However, obviously you are better at it. Obviously I am not. I cannot play at your level. I prefer to play with my own gaming style and enjoy the game. You prefer to max out and stomp the game. Good on you. You have already said I am a bad player. I have already admitted it. So changing the game to make it a challenge for you when I am already being challenged just means that you get to play and I don't. Because as already stated, I am not as good as you.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add missing punctuation. And remove extraneous word.

[arcane]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:26 PM, UltraAlt said:

 

Any player that thinks the game isn't difficult enough can unslot all their enhancements, delete out all their P2W powers, set their difficulty at +4,8, run solo, and see if the game is challenging enough.

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Except that’s a ridiculous proposition because there’s no point to a video game if you have to gut away all the fun content to make it more engaging.

 

I cannot think of a single other game I have played where maxed out characters and challenging content are, with a few exceptions, regarded by the players as mutually exclusive features that can’t  coexist. That’s because that’s not how games work.

Edited January 20, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:24 PM, Solarverse said:

 

To be fair, players who wanted this game to be easy got their way. I think it's only fair that players who prefer a challenge get content that better suits them. It's not about exclusion, it's about inclusion. Whether or not you want to build in such a way that you can run that content, is entirely up to you. I think you are looking at it all wrong.

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Content would be great. The OP is about weakening the entire game's defense system and upping mob to hit. If this were about content to challenge players, I wouldn't be arguing.

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:28 PM, arcane said:

Except that’s a ridiculous proposition because there’s no point to a video game if you have to gut away all the fun content to make it more engaging.

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And there is no point to a video game if you can't play it for being too difficult either.

[Solarverse]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:28 PM, arcane said:

Except that’s a ridiculous proposition because there’s no point to a video game if you have to gut away all the fun content to make it more engaging.

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Or gut away at your own abilities and enhancements. What's the point of playing a progression type of MMO, if you have to gimp yourself to give yourself a challenge? Might as well just remove levels if we are going to do that, lol.

[arcane]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:30 PM, Rudra said:

And there is no point to a video game if you can't play it for being too difficult either.

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Are we anywhere close to a universe where CoX is like this....

 

I’m sorry for attacking you, but you keep minimizing all of our real experiences with the game and it’s annoying as hell. “Uh, no, you can solo +4x8 even with an Ice controller, I’m doing it right now.” - “LoL i BeT eVeRy MiSsIoN tAkEs A mOnTh LoL”.

Edited January 20, 2022 by arcane

[Solarverse]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:29 PM, Rudra said:

Content would be great. The OP is about weakening the entire game's defense system and upping mob to hit. If this were about content to challenge players, I wouldn't be arguing.

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Yeah, that's not happening though, I thought we were past that and was talking about other options. Admittedly I have not read page two, but it looked like to me the original idea has been blown out of the water on page one, heh. So I am coming at this from a new perspective rather than what the OP suggested.

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:31 PM, arcane said:

Are we anywhere close to a universe where CoX is like this....

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Yes. Have you not read the posts? The OP is that +4/x8 is too easy on any AT using any power set with any power choices with no IOs and no incarnate powers. WITH IOs and incarnate powers, I can only do +4/x8 on ONE of my characters, and I have to be very conscientious about mobs and how badly I am getting stomped. The rest struggle at +2/x2 or LESS. So if you up the difficulty because you can sleep through +4/x8, then players like me can't play. So you want the game to cater to you specifically rather than the community as a whole. If challenging content for you is released, great! Have fun! I shall adore you from the safety of super kindergarten. But to change the entire game? No.

[Wobegone]

  On 1/19/2022 at 10:22 PM, arcane said:

Every powerset combo in the game can solo +4x8 with caveats (IO/Incarnate up, AV’s not guaranteed to be included in package, absolute worst combos ever may struggle with a number of enemy groups). So this here is kind of just plain incorrect.

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Just want to emphasize this as perhaps it's getting lost in the current conversation.   Arcane isn't some Greek God of Gaming cuz he can solo a +4x8 with an Ice Controller.  He can because he has lores, a giant nuke, defensive buffs, mez protection buffs, recharge buffs, end buffs, etc from Incarnates.  And yea, sure, a bunch of procs.  

 

Edit: Not to mention unlimited inspirations.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ignatz the Insane

[Rudra]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:38 PM, Ignatz the Insane said:

Just want to emphasize this as perhaps it's getting lost in the current conversation.   Arcane isn't some Greek God of Gaming cuz he can solo a +4x8 with an Ice Controller.  He can because he has lores, a giant nuke, defensive buffs, mez protection buffs, recharge buffs, end buffs, etc from Incarnates.  And yea, sure, a bunch of procs.  

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And again, the OP is about soloing +4/x8 without any of that. Please start a new thread if the discussion is moving on.

[UltraAlt]

  On 1/20/2022 at 3:36 PM, Rudra said:

Yes. Have you not read the posts?

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I think they are trolling.