Why do people say Poison needs help?

[arcane]

5 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

I'm going to have to agree with Parabola, THAT fact is bad design.

I’d agree with you if the powers were bad, but skippable and bad aren’t the same. The powers in question are skippable but not bad.

 

Bad powers make bad sets. Skippable powers make flexible sets.

 

I think about every single power. But it’s nice to not have to agonize over every power and every slot when you want good pool/epic picks too.

Edited February 7, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I'm going to have to agree with Parabola, THAT fact is bad design.

 

Quoting for absolute truth.

[arcane]

I’ve decided to ban all three of you from teaming with Kins until you recant this backwards-ass bull that devalues half the best sets in the game. 🙂

[Wavicle]

No one is devaluing anything. I’m not saying Kin is BAD, I’m saying it’s badly designed, which it is.

[arcane]

Just now, Wavicle said:

No one is devaluing anything. I’m not saying Kin is BAD, I’m saying it’s badly designed, which it is.

Ok but... under that logic I don’t want to see it designed “better” sooo standard has questionable value to me 🙂

[Wavicle]

They aren't going to fix Kin. Don't worry.

[Uun]

20 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Here's a question though, should Stealth suppress Venomous Gas?

I don't know if it should, but I wish it would. I can't count the number of times I've been killed because I forgot to turn it off.

[Wavicle]

Just now, Uun said:

I don't know if it should, but I wish it would. I can't count the number of times I've been killed because I forgot to turn it off.

Literally happened to me just now lol

[Marshal_General]

24 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Here's a question though, should Stealth suppress Venomous Gas?

I've had sone venomous gas I have tried to stealth.

[MTeague]

Just now, Marshal_General said:

I've had sone venomous gas I have tried to stealth.

what, look over at the golden retriever, and say "Bad Dog!" 😄

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

I've had sone venomous gas I have tried to stealth.

 

HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[MTeague]

When City of Villains first launched, I tried a Ninja/Poison mastermind. 

 

This experiment ended.... badly. The character got deleted around lvl 15. It was just too painful. This was before IO's even existed (pretty sure, anyway, if not it was before I could afford to think about them much), and at that time, Poison was truly single-target only.  Lowbie ninjas had no noteworthy defense and no good way to buff it, and groups kept expecting my pets to tank purple mobs (spoiler: they couldn't) while all the corruptors who focused on their primary and had no support skills to speak of tried to act like blasters. 

 

At that point, I was willing to say Poison needed help. 

 

Today, with IO's, with the splash-area on poison effects, and with the ability to STACK the primary target / splash target effects, I'm quite content with Poison as-is. My Earth/Poison controller does quite well for herself.  Is it a roving-murderball-friendly set?  Yes and no.  It won't help tons on trash fights.  But when you're up to the AV, you kittenize it completely. Can other players TELL that? Not necessarily. Do I care? No.  It's enough that I know I kittenized it and that's why it died so fast and whiffed vs everyone it attacked. 

 

Also, Rad Emission your debuffs are tied to the anchor mob.... and if things move away, you have to decide whether to de-anchor/re-anchor.  For Poison, they were debuffed at the moment of the impact / splash, and they STAY debuffed for it's duration, no matter who moves where. I think that makes up the difference plenty well. 

[arcane]

24 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

They aren't going to fix Kin. Don't worry.

Well please don’t “fix” Poison either on that note then 🙂 

Edited February 7, 2022 by arcane

[kiramon]

Just now, arcane said:

Well please don’t “fix” Poison either on that note then 🙂

They won't just cuz you asked. 

[Wavicle]

Both sets can remain as is with no issues, as far as I can tell.

 

Force Field is the one buff set that still needs something, imo. 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

When City of Villains first launched, I tried a Ninja/Poison mastermind. 

 

This experiment ended.... badly. The character got deleted around lvl 15. It was just too painful.

I was stubborn. I took mine to 50. 

[ForeverLaxx]

8 hours ago, Pzn said:

The toggle debuff in poison is the same size as the ones in radiation.  Far from useless.  Poison is much better in a world where blowing up spawns immediately is the norm because VG requires no setup time.

On a Defender, that means you're jumping into the middle of spawns yourself. Without a kitted build, you're just going to fall over. On a MM, you put that on a minion, but he'll just fall over, not go where you want, or require a ton of micromanagement that I can't be bothered with (I know from experience, my main villain on live was Necro/Poison).

 

I'm not saying Poison is weak. Far from it. I'm saying that you get almost no use out of your debuffs spawn-to-spawn unless there's a tough target in it. I'm fine with this; it's everyone else trying to change Poison that isn't and my post was explaining why.

[arcane]

14 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

On a Defender, that means you're jumping into the middle of spawns yourself. Without a kitted build, you're just going to fall over. On a MM, you put that on a minion, but he'll just fall over, not go where you want, or require a ton of micromanagement that I can't be bothered with (I know from experience, my main villain on live was Necro/Poison).

 

I'm not saying Poison is weak. Far from it. I'm saying that you get almost no use out of your debuffs spawn-to-spawn unless there's a tough target in it. I'm fine with this; it's everyone else trying to change Poison that isn't and my post was explaining why.

Well yeah you gotta understand how to scrap in melee as a defender to do Poison right. That doesn’t constitute a problem to me, just a slight learning curve.

[Seed22]

19 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I'm playing a Poison Defender now and it seems Very potent...what's the problem?

I love my poison/fire fender. And, seeing that poison has its best values on a fender, it does kinda make me blind to say, the woes of the MM using poison( I mean, it’s not HORRIBLE on MM, and absolutely shines in PvP like always and AV hunting but still.).

 

I played poison back when the debuffs were ST only and it still wasnt horrible. Now? Saying it needs help? Well, I just chalk it up to build advice on the forums from a non min max perspective. Just nod and walk away…

[Seed22]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

Well yeah you gotta understand how to scrap in melee as a defender to do Poison right. That doesn’t constitute a problem to me, just a slight learning curve.

People forget, not every set plays like a ho hum cookie cutter ez i win button set. Leveraging melee on a fender with poison is key( and easy af too. I mean..it’s not even expensive I- nvm going off on a tangent :P)

[Clave Dark 5]

I think it's the hit/miss quality of the power sin it, as others have said.  Pretty much every guide I've ever looked at for it (and builds) were "take these three or four powers, don't waste any time with the rest."  It can still play OK doing that, but who wants a power set with five wastes of time in it?

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I think it's the hit/miss quality of the power sin it, as others have said.  Pretty much every guide I've ever looked at for it (and builds) were "take these three or four powers, don't waste any time with the rest."  It can still play OK doing that, but who wants a power set with five wastes of time in it?

 

I think that advice is wrong. I find both holds and the cone slow handy. The heal, antimez, and rez are the more situational, but fine at what they do.

[Major_Decoy]

Yes, whether or not the single target hold is handy depends on your other power sets. With Electricity or Ice, it can be helpful. Paired with Water Blast, I didn't find myself using it very often. Actually, my Poison/Water blast defender tends to stay at range where I can use neurotoxic breath and steam spray more effectively. (I also slot Annihilation: Chance for res debuff and Achilles' Heel: Chance for res debuff in every power that takes them).

 

Edit: If I were going to change Venomous Gas to be more friendly to my playstyle, I'd make it give every damage power a proc with the debuff. It'd lose the auto-hit feature that way, but it'd be nice to use it at range.

 

(You could combine the two, have it be both a PBAoE toggle and a proc that doesn't stack with the toggle)

Edited February 8, 2022 by Major_Decoy

[MTeague]

40 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

I think that advice is wrong. I find both holds and the cone slow handy. The heal, antimez, and rez are the more situational, but fine at what they do.

Antidote can be interesting purely for slotting purposes. It comes with +RES (Toxic), and because of that, takes Resistance IO sets.

You can use it to slot your +3% defense uniques, if for other reasons you chose not to take Tough.

 

And hey, I've never hated it when a teammate breaks me out of mez. I'm sometimes shocked to my toenails 😄, but it's nice when it happens.

[Wavicle]

There was a suggestion recently that the Team UI should show you when allies are Mezzed to make it easier for Buff characters to see when to use Clear Mind, Antidote, etc. That would be so cool.