Which ATs or specific power sets are most in need of a review?

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, KaizenSoze said:

Banes, good single target damage, good AOE,-resists, def, resists. Great support melee build.

 

I have to assume you're leaning on the mace attacks. Go pure rifle and the ST damage is ... well, bad. On the support side with double maneuvers and assault? Hell yea.

[KaizenSoze]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I have to assume you're leaning on the mace attacks. Go pure rifle and the ST damage is ... well, bad. On the support side with double maneuvers and assault? Hell yea.

Yes, the character started as a Wolfbane. Then I switched to mace after getting annoyed by the poor single target.

 

This is one of my Bane builds in action in Trapdoor.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

I'm sure it's been said already, but MM Mercs.  There's a good thread somewhere here that points out all their animations for attacks are way too slow and out of step with the Rifle animations players use; doing some math, it all checks out that they'd be much much better with those updated.  Unless I missed some later arguments in that thread, after reading it, it ended up looking like a no-brainer for vastly improving what may be the worst CoH set (which I still like though, :P).

[Peacemoon]

I think Dominators could use some more love. And I don’t necessarily just mean in pure +damage. I think their inherent and ‘Perma Dom’ could be more user friendly. At the moment it’s too binary and not easy for newcomers. I’d rather the control benefits were made baseline and the endurance refill and other bonuses were kept on a recharge, perhaps? 
 

Their AoE and attack skills are more muted compared to traditional Blast sets. My Defender’s get nukes and my Dominators have to contend with quite watered down attacks.

 

I think Corruptors inherent could scale from 100% rather than only starting at 50%. As often the extra damage is only overkill in normal fights. 
 

Masterminds I agree with the other feedback. 
 

Controllers/Defenders are in a good place as ATs, but some powersets could really use a look at.

[KaizenSoze]

4 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I think Dominators could use some more love. And I don’t necessarily just mean in pure +damage. I think their inherent and ‘Perma Dom’ could be more user friendly. At the moment it’s too binary and not easy for newcomers. I’d rather the control benefits were made baseline and the endurance refill and other bonuses were kept on a recharge, perhaps? 

Yes, the need for one power to be perma for an entire AT to be effective is bad design.

 

There are some suggestion in the Dom forums about alternate takes on Domination. 

[Redletter]

Most of the ones I night have mentioned were already mentioned. So...

 

• Illusion Control

Ive said before that Illusion seems kinda... weird. You get TWO stealth powers... TWO of them. Why would you EVER need two? Either give the team stealth, or the personal stealth. I know for a fact there's a lot of things the set is missing as a *CONTROL* set that I'd like? Ya know, like a hold that doesnt take fucking forever to come back? Like, Blind is ok when it WORKS, but sometimes it DOESNT. I *dont* like this. You could solve BOTH problems in ONE swing by trading out one of the stealths for a hold, OR! Maybe something like Dimension Shift? A single target dimension shift you could apply to an ally or an enemy? It'd bring it in line with the Carnies the set mimics and it'd also mean Gravity is no longer the ONLY SET THAT CAN DO THIS.

 

• Mind Control

So, there's nothing wrong with Mind inherently? But it has to try and contend with Nature and Elec, which both do what Mind does, but just objectively better? I wouldnt say the whole set needs a change, but I'd like... I dont know. Bigger mags on it? Since it's supposed to be *THE* mind control set. Or like... a -def or -to hit on it's moves? Since the ONLY thing mind is doing is CC. Nature and elec are popping off with all sorts of extra goodies, but mind is just like "yeah i uh... I do psi damage tho".

 

• Psi melee

This thing needs a revisit. Boggle is dumb. Mass levitate comes out of nowhere and feels totally against the set? Then there's insight, which is probably the dumbest gimmick. Tidal Power, Combo Meter, Blood Frenzy, Perfection... hell even with Contaminated and Energy Focus and Dual Blades' attack chain? They all function. You use your moves, you get your gimmick, you use a bigger move and your gimmick buffs it. Rinse/repeat. But Insight? ooooh boy, Insight is just *tooooo* cool for that! Nono, Insight says "I got a random chance to apply, and like, the only reliable way to get me is to use your terrible and out of place Confuse and to ATTACK THE ENEMY YOUVE CONFUSED THUS DEFEATING THE POINT OF HAVING A CONFUSED ENEMY. Then, and only then, will I come to you with any regularity. And once we're together, I will add like, 4 ticks of psi damage to mass levitate or I can make Greater Psi Blade's mostly meaningless Hold last 3 seconds longer. It's your choice, because you only get to use me once until you're COMPLETELY locked out of getting me back for several seconds..."

I don't think the devs NEED to do anything about it? It's not pressing. But, I do think it's the worst gimmick in any melee set, and the set could afford to have a touch up... ya know. Just so that way we dont need an entire thread to break down the statical likelihood of your chances of gaining insight in the first place...

[Redletter]

3 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Yes, the need for one power to be perma for an entire AT to be effective is bad design.

 

There are some suggestion in the Dom forums about alternate takes on Domination. 

I'd argue perma isnt mandatory for Doms to be effective. They get the same controls Controllers get, they just get a much more dangerous secondary that relies on them landing their controls to really capitalize on (in general). It's hard to have the assault sets on such a squishy body, and Domination doesnt make THAT aspect of Dominators any better.

[tidge]

This is a sort of side opinion to the Dominator discussion but... I actually like this peculiar feedback loop for perma-Dom...

 

+Global Recharge -> MOAR clicking -> more -Endurance

 

+Global Recharge -> PermaDom -> Endurance bar refills

 

I haven't found anything else quite like it in the game, so any time there is a whiff of changing Global Recharge or Domination I think fondly about this feedback loop.

[KaizenSoze]

14 minutes ago, Redletter said:

I'd argue perma isnt mandatory for Doms to be effective. They get the same controls Controllers get, they just get a much more dangerous secondary that relies on them landing their controls to really capitalize on (in general). It's hard to have the assault sets on such a squishy body, and Domination doesnt make THAT aspect of Dominators any better.

Not to quibble too much. If they are going to take advantage of their 105% melee damage modifier they have to  get in close. Doms secondaries don't provide a lot support, the ones that do, like Psionic Assault are popular.

 

So, doms have to rely on domination for mezz protection and endurance. There have been threads in dom forum were the general agreement was that doms are wimpy before perma. I find that to be a major design issue.

 

All for a healthy discussion about domination. I have 3 level 50 doms and I just don't enjoy them due to the reliance on perma dom.

Edited February 27, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[Gulbasaur]

1 hour ago, Redletter said:

So, there's nothing wrong with Mind inherently? But it has to try and contend with Nature and Elec, which both do what Mind does, but just objectively better? I wouldnt say the whole set needs a change, but I'd like... I dont know. Bigger mags on it? Since it's supposed to be *THE* mind control set. Or like... a -def or -to hit on it's moves? Since the ONLY thing mind is doing is CC. Nature and elec are popping off with all sorts of extra goodies, but mind is just like "yeah i uh... I do psi damage tho".

I will say that Mind soloes incredibly well. It plays like a blast set, but also controls. Mind also bypasses ranged defence, which is situationally useful but it's there.

 

Telekinesis is a gimmick power, but other than that they're all solid. What I would like is if Containment procced on Fear, though.

[Clave Dark 5]

20 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

There have been threads in dom forum were the general agreement was that doms are wimpy before perma. I find that to be a major design issue.

Your personal opinion aside, people complain about a lot of things.  I found my Doms playable even before hitting perma.  Maybe it's the power creep that making some think they're pointless without; same sorta thing with how people call [set X] "trash" even though it's still playable.  Not everything needs to be number crunchable to supra-heights.

 

*is chased from the boards for heresy*

[Peacemoon]

1 hour ago, Redletter said:

I'd argue perma isnt mandatory for Doms to be effective. They get the same controls Controllers get, they just get a much more dangerous secondary that relies on them landing their controls to really capitalize on (in general). It's hard to have the assault sets on such a squishy body, and Domination doesnt make THAT aspect of Dominators any better.

I may be wrong but Controllers have superior Control numbers to Dominators, unless Dominators have Dominate on in which case their controls are superior. 

I’m talking about duration primarily.

 

Dominators are not useless of course, I just consider them a bit below par is all, and not very newbie friendly.

[pblue]

Oh my, and to think my best characters are all Sentinels and Masterminds, including a Mercs/FF Mastermind (over 100 Vet levels and still going). 

 

I really ought to learn how to play City of Heroes one of these days.

[kiramon]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:26 PM, KaizenSoze said:

Yes, that is on my short list of improvements. If crabs get those attacks, banes should their own version.

 

Imagine if Web Cocoon fired as fast as Fort:Dominate. 🙂

 

I'd start with raising Crabs base HP to Brute and Widows base HP to Scrappers. 

[Ukase]

18 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

We really need to talk. You're obviously doing something wrong, at least with your Fortunatas.

 

Go check out the Trapdoor thread in the scrapper forum. Fortunatas are up there with the best times.

 

I have a Night Widow build that can complete an 801.2 under the two hour limit. Though I will admit it's not a fun build in regular play.

 

If you tried to level a Night Widow normally, then yes that is probably the most painful way to level a VEAT. Hence, why I think they need some improvements. Fortunatas are much easier to level. Wolfspiders are probably the best out of the box w/o IOs.

 

All VEATS suffer somewhat from not awesome until IOs, but after IOs they almost all serviceable to awesome from 1-50.

We already talked - don't you remember? 
 

Widows are trash. I say this being very aware that I probably did not build it properly. I probably pursued the wrong set bonuses. But - CoH isn't about the cookie cutter builds, while it can certainly have those and be fine. I'm supposed to be able to build it in a way that makes sense to me and be just fine. Maybe not fantastic, or even good, but adequate.  On a team, I was okay. It was adequate. I rarely died, but that's because of the great defensive bonuses. But, the damn thing couldn't punch it's way out of a wet paper bag. I would never solo with it, ergo - it's trash. If you're not good alone, you're not adding enough to be worthy of a team. That's my philosophy when it comes to having a character. It has to be able to hold it's own alone and it couldn't. So - trash. 

Now you might make it a treasure - and that's great. But for me - it's trash. 
To make it so it's not trash would require more thought - and that thought would require time that I would rather not invest. It's easier to just park it on Reunion and repress the bad memories of it. 


 

[DoctorDitko]

On 2/25/2022 at 3:56 PM, Crasical said:

Buff LRM Missile

My Dual Pistols blaster would just like her LRM to not be imaginary. But a small buff would be nice, too. It's a bit underpowered for a power that needs 2 pool choices to unlock.

[oedipus_tex]

I'm unsure if I'm actually serious about about this request, but part of me wants to the cut long recharge of controls in Controller and Dominator sets roughly in half in exchange for halved mezz durations. Doing that would have a lot of downstream impact, particularly at low and middle levels. It could actually make the game harder at end game due to needing to reclick stuff. But it's something I might not mind a powers designer looking at, even if ultimately they decide the current ratio:duration ratios are ok.

[Outrider_01]

Nerf regen results in a buff, everything else falls in line and is better at the same time

[Cancrusher]

1 Sentinels

2 Regeneration

3 Kinetic Melee

 

In that order.

 

Certainly, it would really be great if those could at least be addressed before the implementation of any more new material.  JMO.

[OmegaOne]

I think Defense-heavy powers at high levels might need a looking at. For Ice Armor, the answer could simply be in the Blaster's Frigid Protection (which is basically a buffed Chilling Embrace). Similarly, for Force Field, a means to provide some +Absorb would be helpful (though I think FF has more issues than just that, the Absorption mechanic would be a big help). I haven't really thought of a good thematic solution for Super Reflexes yet - maybe some means to "roll with the punch" or a "glancing blow" or something to reduce incoming damage?

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, OmegaOne said:

I haven't really thought of a good thematic solution for Super Reflexes yet - maybe some means to "roll with the punch" or a "glancing blow" or something to reduce incoming damage?

 

That's precisely the basis for the scaling resists in SR.

[tidge]

17 hours ago, Ukase said:

 

Widows are trash. I say this being very aware that I probably did not build it properly. I probably pursued the wrong set bonuses. But - CoH isn't about the cookie cutter builds, while it can certainly have those and be fine. I'm supposed to be able to build it in a way that makes sense to me and be just fine. Maybe not fantastic, or even good, but adequate.  On a team, I was okay. It was adequate. I rarely died, but that's because of the great defensive bonuses. But, the damn thing couldn't punch it's way out of a wet paper bag.

 

 Obviously, mileage varies. I have a 2-form build Fortunata & Night Widow... in which the Fortunata is "all range" (a scrappy controller) and the Night Widow is "all close" (a team-boosting scrapper). I greatly prefer the Fortunata, primarily because the AoE can clear x8 maps solo much faster... but OTOH... it was the Widow build that I used during much of the post 24 leveling up, and I still switch to it when I am on teams.

 

I suppose there are things about the Widow VEATs that would make the Night Widow better for me specifically (Damage per Activation maybe?) but much of the imbalance in relative performance is (I think) due to my specific power picks.

 

I have a very simple-minded suggestion about the VEAT Inherent: I would much rather have the Inherent be +MaxEnd instead of +Recovery. I suppose a hard look could be had looking at the full suite of Endurance costs for the VEAT powers, but for my build-points the variety in VEATs comes from the Power & Patron pool choices which I wouldn't expect to be tuned for VEATs. I also feel that (effective) +Recovery bonuses get to the point of diminishing returns too fast (from sets, globals) and a higher MaxEnd just appeals to me.

[KaizenSoze]

3 minutes ago, tidge said:

I have a very simple-minded suggestion about the VEAT Inherent: I would much rather have the Inherent be +MaxEnd instead of +Recovery. I suppose a hard look could be had looking at the full suite of Endurance costs for the VEAT powers, but for my build-points the variety in VEATs comes from the Power & Patron pool choices which I wouldn't expect to be tuned for VEATs. I also feel that (effective) +Recovery bonuses get to the point of diminishing returns too fast (from sets, globals) and a higher MaxEnd just appeals to me.

I have always liked your idea of just adding more endurance. It solves a lot of the Widow power costs with minimal changes.

 

There are powers issues that extend beyond endurance cost. But I think I have beaten that drum enough.

[AlwaysAPrice]

Regeneration & Force Field. Only thing I think they both really need to be back up to snuff with their peers is something that provides an offensive benefit, as that's the main way I feel they've been left behind - they're both great at the things they're meant to do, that are central to their concept, but there are just so many alternatives, ones that provide +damage, +recharge, or debuffs or control tools while also meeting or exceeding their standards of survivability, that the classics have become a real hard sell.

[OmegaOne]

13 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

That's precisely the basis for the scaling resists in SR.

Ah of course. Hmm - maybe that needs to be tweaked a bit then? Will have to check out the actual numbers, but I rarely seem to even notice that having an effect in the past.