Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Shred Monkey]

  On 6/7/2022 at 1:28 PM, ShardWarrior said:

  On 6/7/2022 at 6:05 AM, Voltor said:

Ahsoko Tano tells Mando that Grogu/baby Yoda has a lot of fear in him and that it may be best to let his abilities fade.

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That line did not make sense to me either.

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I thought she was saying, "uhh... he might go evil... I've seen it before."

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

  On 6/7/2022 at 3:14 PM, Shred Monkey said:

I thought she was saying, "uhh... he might go evil... I've seen it before."

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Thought so too. The Force is a powerful ally, and in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, a powerful weapon. You don't necessarily want someone lashing out with it in fear or anger, let alone someone with as much natural talent as Grogu has. 

 

That said, Grogu's primary instincts seem to be towards protection and compassion (and snacks).

He's been through a lot for a youngling, even a 50-year-old one, but he knows love when he feels it.

[Techwright]

  On 6/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

If they fire first (or spot the primary weapon array charging and get lucky with evasive maneuvers), Classic/Pike Enterprise could run'n'gun around the Death Star.

Defiant's more suited to this gig - could even just about do the Trench Run sideways.

Disco could use Magic Mushroom Drive to jump out of the firing arc repeatedly.

 

Picard gets obliterated before they've even got coffee set up for the board meeting. Which is frankly just rude, but that's Imperials for ya.

 

EDIT: thought strikes me. How do the Enterprise cope when they meet their first Force user? Are Spock / Troi Force-sensitive?

(Or maybe another member of the crew - Bones would be pretty hilarious...)

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"Magic Mushroom Drive"...okay, that made me laugh.

 

It's a good point:  The Defiant was designed to hold out against an adaptable Borg cube (notice I said "hold out".  I'm well aware of what happened to Defiant I.).  A Deathstar, fascist though it be, is far less efficient.  Less transporters on the Defiant, however.  I'm a fan of Diane Duane's books, and in "My Enemy, My Ally" she showed the potential for even a small transporter to wreak chaos on an opposing force.  Having several cargo transporters would be frighteningly effective in a willing hand.

 

Picard would have one thing going for him.  The ship would probably die anyway, but he might take out the dish using the Picard Maneuver

(No not that one, the real one.)

 

As to the Enterprise coping with a force user?  Hand Sulu a light saber, for one. ("Hand Sulu"...hmm..."Han Sulu" Well, it is a merged universe 😉)  Honestly, though?  Trek has a history of talking it out with or tricking superpowered entities: V'Ger, Apollo, the Squire of Gothos, Q (all of 'em), Plato's Stepchildren, and the Prophets/Wormhole Aliens to name a few.

Trek telepathic connections to the force would probably be about the same as in their universe: limited.  Q play with the substructure of the universe all the time, and it doesn't alert the telepaths.  Now that said, there is the matter of Guinan and her people.  They do seem to be able to sense the greater universe around them.  Guinan just might sense a force user.

 

 

Sorry, this is really derailing the thread.  

[Shred Monkey]

  On 6/7/2022 at 5:40 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

Thought so too. The Force is a powerful ally, and in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, a powerful weapon. You don't necessarily want someone lashing out with it in fear or anger, let alone someone with as much natural talent as Grogu has. 

 

That said, Grogu's primary instincts seem to be towards protection and compassion (and snacks).

He's been through a lot for a youngling, even a 50-year-old one, but he knows love when he feels it.

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Of course he seems like a good guy... but then again look at the choice he just made to leave the temple and travel with Mando.  It's possible this might go a different way.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Shred Monkey

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

  On 6/8/2022 at 2:28 PM, Shred Monkey said:

It's possible this might go a different way.

 

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Grogu was offered the choice of wisdom, power, and learning... or a loving father and a new extended family bound by both honour and love to protect him.

It would seem, from the small beats with Obi-Wan in E3, that's a choice Jedi don't get offered a lot.

 

Been very busy today so only just settling down with a mug of tea and headphones to watch Ep4. Usual aimless gibbering will follow, but I've noticed a lot of people on the Interweb pipes talking about a direct lift from Fallen Order. Wonder if everyone's favourite ginger Jedi will put in an appearance?

 

Oh, and Archer's Enterprise might get a couple of shots in but a Vader-led TIE squadron would take him. And his little dog, too.

[FX: menacing space-witch cackles fading off into distance, because we haven't screwed with canon enough yet]

Edited June 8, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Glacier Peak]

  On 6/6/2022 at 5:43 PM, Krimson said:

Sorry but if Star Wars crosses over with Marvel, I'm going to watch the Hell out of that. 

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This actually occurred! The Ms. Marvel show did a name drop in the first episode. 

[Glacier Peak]

  On 6/7/2022 at 6:05 AM, Voltor said:

 

Ahsoko Tano tells Mando that Grogu/baby Yoda has a lot of fear in him and that it may be best to let his abilities fade.

 

The classic game: Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast had Kyle Katarn go through the process of rediscovering his abilities as he let them fade after Dark Forces 2.

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Make Kyle Katarn canon!!!

[Techwright]

  On 6/8/2022 at 9:44 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

Been very busy today so only just settling down with a mug of tea and headphones to watch Ep4. Usual aimless gibbering will follow, but I've noticed a lot of people on the Interweb pipes talking about a direct lift from Fallen Order.

 

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This episode had a LOT of references to other Star Wars works.  The Fallen Order one was just the most obvious one.

 

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References:

1. The obvious one:  Using the shattered glass of the Inquisitorium to flood the passageway to allow escape.  Fallen Order

2. Leia trying to threaten with rank and status. A New Hope

3. Leia interrogation with a lot of sass.  A New Hope

4. Obi deflecting blaster bolts into other enemies.  The Prequel Trilogy

5. T-47 Speeders.  Empire Strikes Back.  

6.  Master Tera Sinube, 1st Jedi in amber that Kenobi and the camera focus upon.  The Clone Wars, episode "Lightsaber Lost" (appearances in other episodes as well)  There was also an unclear shot of a creature which might have been one of two known Jedi from the same species.  One of those was a Jedi Council member, Coleman Kcaj.

7. Lightsaber attacks on stormtroopers in a darkened interrogation room.  The Force Unleashed II trailer.

8. Reva's charging cry of "Betrayer!" The Force Awakens - Kylo's rage-cry of "traitor" towards Flynn.

 

Thoughts:

 

1. Stormtroopers never live to learn:  when you hear a noise behind the door you are guarding...solo... you call it in.  You do no open the door and look hard to one side exposing the back of your head.  Honestly, since there's an Evil Overlord's List, there should be an Evil Minion's List as well, and this should be on it.

 

2. I'm reminded of a line from Der Fuehrer's Face, that Nazi-mocking WWII hit by the Spike Jones Orchestra:  "they'll never bomb this place".  Arguably the third most powerful fortress in the galaxy, and they have no underwater sensors, and apparently no long range sensors to see two fighter craft approaching.  They also have a big open deck apparently with no anti-aircraft weaponry, and with masses of equipment and troops just waiting for conical ranged destruction.  Oh and they hang their ships from the ceiling where its not easy to jump in and pursue.  The word for today, kids, is "overconfidence".

 

3. A good psych-out.  Some of the YouTube reactors agreed with my feelings that Tala couldn't possibly survive the fortress.  Clearly the design was to make us think that, then kill Wade instead, a character we barely knew.  But the impact was still powerful and sobering.

 

4. When are they going to give Fourth Sister meaningful dialog and something to do other than to stare menacingly?  It's really getting bizarre by this point.  She's window dressing, and that doesn't seem like something that should be for an Inquisitor since they are so rare.

 

5. Vader's rage was awesome.  Even Kenobi didn't gain such a vigorous reaction after Vader started wearing the helmet.

 

6. The amber tombs:  so unexpected, and yet, maybe not.  Rumors have been swirling for a while now that Favreau and Filoni have been tasked with making sense out of the hash that is the Sequel Trilogy.  There've been hints of a secret cloning research project underway in both The Bad Batch and The Mandalorian.  Putting force-sensitives into amber is reminiscent of Jurassic Park getting DNA from mosquitos in amber.  Here, it may be a way to preserve the bodies of the force-sensitives to extract material at any time for the study and perfection of cloning or perhaps other techniques for constructing a force-sensitive body.  Palpatine may already be setting his ideas of immortality into motion.

 

 

 

 

  On 6/8/2022 at 11:08 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Make Kyle Katarn canon!!!

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He already is.  The game is considered canon.  Make him live action...aye, that's what we want to see.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Techwright

[Glacier Peak]

  On 6/9/2022 at 2:16 AM, Techwright said:

 

This episode had a LOT of references to other Star Wars works.  The Fallen Order one was just the most obvious one.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

References:

1. The obvious one:  Using the shattered glass of the Inquisitorium to flood the passageway to allow escape.  Fallen Order

2. Leia trying to threaten with rank and status. A New Hope

3. Leia interrogation with a lot of sass.  A New Hope

4. Obi deflecting blaster bolts into other enemies.  The Prequel Trilogy

5. T-47 Speeders.  Empire Strikes Back.  

6.  Master Tera Sinube, 1st Jedi in amber Kenobi focuses upon.  The Clone Wars, episode "Lightsaber Lost" (appearances in other episodes as well)  There was also an unclear shot of a creature which might have been one of two known Jedi from the same species.  One of those was a Jedi Council member, Coleman Kcaj.

7. Lightsaber attacks on stormtroopers in a darkened interrogation room.  The Force Unleashed II trailer.

8. Reva's charging cry of "Betrayer!" The Force Awakens - Kylo's rage-cry of "traitor" towards Flynn.

 

Thoughts:

 

1. Stormtroopers never live to learn:  when you hear a noise behind the door you are guarding...solo... you call it in.  You do no open the door and look hard to one side exposing the back of your head.  Honestly, since there's an Evil Overlord's List, there should be an Evil Minion's List as well, and this should be on it.

 

2. I'm reminded of a line from Der Fuehrer's Face, that Nazi-mocking WWII hit by the Spike Jones Orchestra:  "they'll never bomb this place".  Arguably the third most powerful fortress in the galaxy, and they have no underwater sensors, and apparently no long range sensors to see two fighter craft approaching.  They also have a big open deck apparently with no anti-aircraft weaponry, and with masses of equipment and troops just waiting for conical ranged destruction.  Oh and they hang their ships from the ceiling where its not easy to jump in and pursue.  The word for today, kids, is "overconfidence".

 

3. A good psych-out.  Some of the YouTube reactors agreed with my feelings that Tala couldn't possibly survive the fortress.  Clearly the design was to make us think that, then kill Wade instead, a character we barely knew.  But the impact was still powerful and sobering.

 

4. When are they going to give Fourth Sister meaningful dialog and something to do other than to stare menacingly?  It's really getting bizarre by this point.  She's window dressing, and that doesn't seem like something that should be for an Inquisitor since they are so rare.

 

5. Vader's rage was awesome.  Even Kenobi didn't gain such a vigorous reaction after Vader started wearing the helmet.

 

6. The amber tombs:  so unexpected, and yet, maybe not.  Rumors have been swirling for a while now that Favreau and Filoni have been tasked with making sense out of the hash that is the Sequel Trilogy.  There've been hints of a secret cloning research project underway in both The Bad Batch and The Mandalorian.  Putting force-sensitives into amber is reminiscent of Jurassic Park getting DNA from mosquitos in amber.  Here, it may be a way to preserve the bodies of the force-sensitives to extract material at any time for the study and perfection of cloning or perhaps other techniques for constructing a force-sensitive body.  Palpatine may already be setting his ideas of immortality into motion.

 

 

 

 

He already is.  The game is considered canon.  Make him live action...aye, that's what we want to see.

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I could've sworn I heard that Disney waved off the video game series in to "Legends" status. 

[Techwright]

  On 6/9/2022 at 2:19 AM, Glacier Peak said:

I could've sworn I heard that Disney waved off the video game series in to "Legends" status. 

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Hmm...first I've heard of it.  I'll do some digging.

[Techwright]

Okay,  did some digging, and it appears that in the earliest stages of the game that would become Fallen Order, it was not canon.  But that quickly changed in the development phase.  Additionally, the sequel to the game, which is being called Jedi: Survivor is canon according to reports I've read.  Since it relies on the previous work, the previous work must be canon.

[Voltor]

  On 6/8/2022 at 11:08 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Make Kyle Katarn canon!!!

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Dark Troopers appeared in Season 2 of Mandalorian, so I would presume Kyle is canon.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Right. Finally caught up a few hours later than scheduled:

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• Crosscuts between Ben's burns and Anakin's mirrored the ones between Luke and Vader's cybernetics in ROTJ.
• Many other bits of fanservice in this episode, including at least one actual fan.
• Yeah, I hate airport security too. Bastards. All of them. Even the mouse droids.
• The Jedassic Park Hall Of Horrors was a nicely nasty surprise. Especially the beat at the end: yes, the Empire will quite happily drown kids in amber too. Alive.
• Side note thinking about the amber: is anyone else thinking John Noble would be a fantastic addition to Star Wars, or is he too close to McDiarmid in performance style?
• I like that the characters (perhaps Ben, Vader and Second Brother aside) engage their brains and use doublethink.
  • Tala is very, very smart. "Of course I'm a spy". (If an Inquisitor's capable of at least surface reading someone's mind, you'd better be ready).
  • Leia's "can I ask my daddy, because we're all on the same side..." is genius, partly because it deflected Reva's line of questioning back on herself, and partly because it reminds me of the kind of detailed, circular and surprisingly well-crafted arguments I have to deal with when nieces are trying to get one over on their parents, teachers and/or me. I'm also fairly sure I've also been through Reva's "whattheWAITNOoyoulittleGIT" series of expressions quite a lot. Again, Space Mom would be proud.
  • And then Reva. It was right there, and yet I didn't spot it coming. Allow the enemy to think they've won, then track them to their base and destroy them? Neat idea. I wonder if Vader'll borrow that one later?
• Somewhere on Raxus Prime, the head of Engineering Corps is beating his head on his desk: "Again. AGAIN??? Why... underwater... you... MORONS. You could have had the whole of a nice industrial park on Chandrila for a fraction of those credits and nobody would have looked at the place twice, but OH NO, it's got to be the Obvious Fortress of Doom with the custom bathrooms"...sighing, and requisitioning 200 Imperial Mop-Droids.
• It's been blasted all over the internet, but that tiny moment between Ben and Leia is big. I might have cut there rather than the OH NOES EVIL LOLA giveaway.

 

Overall, I like: not the filler ep the Internet said it would be. Good setup for the final two episodes. It seems we're following a bit of an up/down cycle with each episode. So be prepared for a downbeat and Big Damn Cliffhanger in Episode 5. They've already used up the beat with Leia, so how do they rack up the tension next time?

Edited June 9, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

  On 6/9/2022 at 8:35 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

It seems we're following a bit of an up/down cycle with each episode. So be prepared for a downbeat and Big Damn Cliffhanger in Episode 5. They've already used up the beat with Leia, so how do they rack up the tension next time?

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Seems suggestively obvious to me.  They're going to pull an Episode VII move...

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...and massacre a Resistance/Rebel cell village.  The destruction of The Path will be Kenobi's next big heartbreak, but it also might be his turning point as well.

 

Come to think of it: if they are going to be doing a second and third season/series, this well may be the mission that occupies his time while watching over Luke:  counselling the rebuilders of The Path, perhaps a Tatooine branch (though honestly, I think he'd want nothing on the planet that might draw attention to Luke.)

 

I'd not be surprised if Quinlan Vos appears in episode 5, though he may already be dead or slaughtered soon afterwards.  I'd not be surprised to see other recognizable Jedi as well.  (Maybe the one who got Grogu out of the Jedi Temple finally?) Then again, Vos has the force talent of psychometry, a talent shared by Cal Kestus.  It would be interesting if Vos shows up in Jedi: Survivor, to give Cal advanced training to hone this native ability.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

You can see where the writers would normally go with this, but they've definitely thrown a few curveballs.

 

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Thought 1: massacre's a possibility, but a Hoth-style siege would also fit the bill. As would Ben doing something as dumb as, say, surrendering himself to buy everyone else an escape route.

 

Thought 2: we've seen the writers allow many characters to work smarter in this show. Ben recently repaired Lola so he knows how she works: I wonder if Leia or Ben might be observant enough to notice an Imperial haX0r job (given Reva didn't seem to have long, it might not be that subtle...) In which case, who's walking into a trap now?

 

Thought 1+2 = 3: Ben notices that Lola has issues, borrows her for "a couple of minutes", and takes off separately in one of the speeders. He'll be alone, sure, but he'll be able to pick the high ground.

 

[Techwright]

Something just occurred to me, and it might just be a big, ol' plot hole in episode 4:

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Reva put a tracker in Lola the droid.

 

But why?

 

At the moment she controlled the droid there was no known threat of rescue.  Kenobi was incapacitated at the very least, Leia was secured deep in the bowels of the complex, and Reva was moving towards the torture step.  The first moment Reva is aware Kenobi has infiltrated is when the alarm went off when she was in a different part of the building, away from Leia and the droid.  So why put a tracker in the droid?  If there was info with Leia it would eventually come out with torture.

 

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that the writers botched it.  Plot holes are common when writing complex narratives, but something so critical to the bridging of episodes 4 and 5 seems like it would be more tightly considered.

 

[Mr. Vee]

  On 6/10/2022 at 12:55 PM, Techwright said:

Something just occurred to me, and it might just be a big, ol' plot hole in episode 4:

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Reva put a tracker in Lola the droid.

 

But why?

 

At the moment she controlled the droid there was no known threat of rescue.  Kenobi was incapacitated at the very least, Leia was secured deep in the bowels of the complex, and Reva was moving towards the torture step.  The first moment Reva is aware Kenobi has infiltrated is when the alarm went off when she was in a different part of the building, away from Leia and the droid.  So why put a tracker in the droid?  If there was info with Leia it would eventually come out with torture.

 

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that the writers botched it.  Plot holes are common when writing complex narratives, but something so critical to the bridging of episodes 4 and 5 seems like it would be more tightly considered.

 

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She probably assumes a 10 year old girl who'd only been kidnapped and met her rescuers that week wouldn't be privy to enough information to damage the Path as much as a surprise attack at wherever they escape to would. I assume trying to get info from Leia was mostly performative. She knows Kenobi well enough to know there'll be a rescue attempt.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Mr. Vee

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

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  On 6/10/2022 at 12:55 PM, Techwright said:

At the moment she controlled the droid there was no known threat of rescue. 

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Point taken, and it does feel like a hole. If you wanted to patch that hole, you could say...

 

1. Reva hacked Lola to keep an eye on her when she got thrown back in solitary. Kid isn't going to talk to her, but Leia might let something slip if she thinks she's alone.

 

2. Reva is lying to Lord Vader (which is never a good idea), hadn't planned to let them go at all, and is scrambling to come up with a backup plan.

 

1+2=3. Reva is incredibly lucky - the trick she meant to use for one thing wound up being useful for another. 

 

or

 

4. Reva's an Inquisitor, and apparently strong with the Dark Side. She might well have guessed (or foreseen, if she's really strong) that Ben would attempt a rescue.  Backup's never a bad thing. She might even have sensed Ben when he landed - or just enough of a tremor in the Force to put her on guard.

 

...but yeah, probably just a hole. Unless the writers have out-thought us yet again...

 

[Mr. Vee]

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They've made it a point to emphasize that she's obsessed with Kenobi. My working theory is she knew he'd come and is probably more clever than Vader at this point. There's a whole theme in the novels, carried over from Anakin's strong-headedness in the prequels, that Vader is a blunt instrument. I get the feeling they're trying to gradually transform him through his interactions with various clever people (Thrawn, Tarkin, maybe Reva) into the Vader of 4-6 who's masterminding traps and such.

 

[DougGraves]

Finally seen the first 2 episodes.

 

So far:

 

It seems that they are determined to fill in the full story of the main characters from Episode 1 through  Episode 9.  Whether it is an interesting story or not.

 

For some reason Disney lets the MCU shows be fun and exciting but wants Star Wars shows to be slow and grim.  I have to wonder if they just want to show off the world, literally.  Lots of slow scenes and shots of the Star Wars world with not much happening.

[Frostbiter]

  On 6/13/2022 at 5:00 PM, DougGraves said:

Finally seen the first 2 episodes.

 

So far:

 

It seems that they are determined to fill in the full story of the main characters from Episode 1 through  Episode 9.  Whether it is an interesting story or not.

 

For some reason Disney lets the MCU shows be fun and exciting but wants Star Wars shows to be slow and grim.  I have to wonder if they just want to show off the world, literally.  Lots of slow scenes and shots of the Star Wars world with not much happening.

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Episodes 3&4 are were the action picks up. The first two were scene and plot establishment. Although the episodes do get shorter after that. 10 minutes of credits don't count.

[Techwright]

  On 6/13/2022 at 5:00 PM, DougGraves said:

For some reason Disney lets the MCU shows be fun and exciting but wants Star Wars shows to be slow and grim.  I have to wonder if they just want to show off the world, literally.  Lots of slow scenes and shots of the Star Wars world with not much happening.

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It's actually following a pattern I've seen with Disney TV programming going back at least to the mid-1980s with Brian Blessed's performance of Long John Silver in the Disney Channel's miniseries Return To Treasure Island.  It was actually a fun story and a great performance from Blessed, but also clear that some executive told them to drag it out for a few more episodes.

 

Only if you've seen episode 3 of O-W K:

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[DougGraves]

Having seen 3-4 I have to wonder if they are taking the long view on this.

 

The episodes lacked tension for me because I know from the movies who has to survive.  But I wonder if they are planning these so that in 20 years people will watch them in chronological order and not know who will survive.  In which case instead of these scenes being pointless, they will make the later movies more meaningful.

[Mr. Vee]

5 seemed like a step up from the others despite 

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actually giving Christianson some dialogue. Also weird they didn't do any de-aging on him. Seems like it'd be easier to do given he's only 40ish. Unless they did it and just did a lousy job of it.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Thoughts on Ep5:

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• Siege episode was pretty standard and quite predictable stuff, TBH, other than the flashbacks and the extra-sneaky use of L0LA.
• Tala gets 'fridged. Could see it coming, still not happy about it.
• Reva was trying to get close to Anakin, but not for the reasons we thought...
• ...and Obi-Wan using her as a catspaw is, well, a little bit Sithy on his part.
• Sure, the kid wanted a shot at the title, but nowhere near ready to take on the champ. That was just mocking and brutal.
• Angry Vader is the best Vader, buuuut...
• ...I'm not quite sure how that backup-transport gag worked - was the one Vader downed illusory, was the second one hidden using Force Invisibility...? Feels like a bit of a hole.
• Speaking of holes: Reva's Force power seems to be blind luck. Not just that she's left with a survivable gut-shot, but found a handy-dandy reveal of where to go next.
• We have the EpVIII cliffhangers back again, just in reverse order: trapped in a base, then trying to outrun Imperial cruisers. 

This means we probably know where Ep6 is going, and it's where it was always going to go: back to the Twin Suns for a final showdown.

Maybe the "Reva leak" is real: maybe it's fake or they reshot it.

Hopefully, Leia can get safely home at this point so ObiWan (and the viewers) can focus wholly on Luke, Reva and...Vader?

Overall, other than Vader going full Unleashed and showing off, less visual or plot inventiveness than previous episodes. Still, good series, and looking forward to finale next week.