Respec question.

[Infinitum]

I have never taken the time to ask this, but does the order of slot placement during a respec matter when exemplared still?

[RobotLove]

Nope.

[Infinitum]

6 minutes ago, RobotLove said:

Nope.

So how does that work out when exemplared in terms of power?

[Adeon Hawkwood]

4 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

So how does that work out when exemplared in terms of power?

Enhancement values are scaled down if you exemplar below level 31 to account for the fact that you have more slots.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

So how does that work out when exemplared in terms of power?

 

Exemplaring reduces the value of enhancements.  It ignores how many slots you have, it doesn't record the level at which you put slots into powers, it just applies a global enhancement value reduction.  You're still "stronger" than a native level character, because you have more slots, you have more powers, but you're not so powerful that you make the lower level character look like a poser.

[Infinitum]

Ok that makes sense.  I thought it was something like that.

 

Do i remember correctly on live at some point when respecing that slots were by level also?

 

Or did i dream that in a van down by the river?

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Ok that makes sense.  I thought it was something like that.

 

Do i remember correctly on live at some point when respecing that slots were by level also?

 

Or did i dream that in a van down by the river?

 

Yeah, the original respec system was a hot mess, requiring players to add slots after each power selection.  They changed it at some point, don't recall exactly when, to the way it works now, selecting all powers, then placing slots.  I remember being excited about the new respec system because it allowed a power just taken to be six-slotted, instead of having to wait (example: take a power at level 26, immediately respec, place six slots in that power).

 

Hilariously, Mids' still was never changed to reflect the updated respec system.  You can't six-slot a level 49 power in Mids', it either removes the extra three slots, or it flags them as Invalid and pretends they don't exist.  Probably messes with at least a few players' heads.

[tidge]

58 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Yeah, the original respec system was a hot mess, requiring players to add slots after each power selection.  They changed it at some point, don't recall exactly when, to the way it works now, selecting all powers, then placing slots. 

 

Was the system tweaked maybe after issue 6? I feel like there was a subtle respec effect which made it possible to make the Kheldian Dwarf forms more effective in Bloody Bay than they should have otherwise been because of slot availability ... of course the current system (even without Enhancement set bonuses) would still do the same. I have a vague memory that you didn't apply slots until after power choices, but that maybe the slots themselves became inactive if you exemplared below the "level" of when you placed the slot... so you could slot your first extra (i.e. the second) slot in a power you got at level 20, but if you exemplared below level 21, you would still have those early slots but none of the slots you placed that you would have "earned" above level 21 were in effect. I don't remember a respec that worked like what we now think of as making a second build (the initial time), but that doesn't mean that there wasn't an era when that was the case. "Hot Mess" is an apt description.

 

The Bloody Bay/Kheldian effect I recall was this: slotting the first/earliest slots in the Dwarf for powers meant that it was possible to make an oddly powerful Dwarf for that lower-level PVP zone. These days the slots are always there, it is the powers that become unavailable.

[Luminara]

37 minutes ago, tidge said:

Was the system tweaked maybe after issue 6?

 

Just can't remember.  It's been a long time and I'm starting to earn veteran XP IRL.

[Snarky]

I have only found one instance about slot placement importance in game.  (aside from obvious it is better to have more slots...) When placing procs they fire in order.  From right to left when they proc.

[Clave Dark 5]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

I have only found one instance about slot placement importance in game.  (aside from obvious it is better to have more slots...) When placing procs they fire in order.  From right to left when they proc.

Interesting.  That effect aside, is there any case when that's something to keep in mind for slotting, like "be sure this -resist fires first, before the damage" or something?

[Six-Six]

I do a lot of Pillar missions. And I'm not sure if I notice it wrong, but some of my procs (like Devastation +chance to hold) which should be slottable at 27 still work when I'm exemplared to 15. Same with the End mod (I forget the name) +chance to heal. I have a L25 slotted but still get HP floaters at 15, though the attuned ones are slottable at 18. 

And @Clave Dark 5 to clarify @Snarky's post, I've read (from a fairly reliable post) that procs will fire in this order: Slot 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I'm not a numbers guy, but since then I've rearranged my -res procs and put them on slot 6. And in other instances, I put +chance to hold or +mag 2 hold in 6 so if it doesn't fire, other procs in the slots before it might make up for it.

[Clave Dark 5]

17 minutes ago, Six-Six said:

I do a lot of Pillar missions. And I'm not sure if I notice it wrong, but some of my procs (like Devastation +chance to hold) which should be slottable at 27 still work when I'm exemplared to 15. Same with the End mod (I forget the name) +chance to heal. I have a L25 slotted but still get HP floaters at 15, though the attuned ones are slottable at 18.

Pretty sure I was recently on a DFB that I kept seeing a Controller's Energy Font pop up on, so that would make sense.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Interesting.  That effect aside, is there any case when that's something to keep in mind for slotting, like "be sure this -resist fires first, before the damage" or something?

keeping in mind they "check" in order so some will probably not activate.  yes.  which is why, as you surmise, many people put the -res to the far right.  if it goes off the procs following work better.  i do not proc out much.  but if i have multiples i will tend to put the purples etc to far right.  hardest hitting most likely to fire etc.  prob only matters for special effect ones like -res however.  the time window is in tron time compared to me.

[InvaderStych]

6 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Interesting.  That effect aside, is there any case when that's something to keep in mind for slotting, like "be sure this -resist fires first, before the damage" or something?

 

4 hours ago, Six-Six said:

And @Clave Dark 5 to clarify @Snarky's post, I've read (from a fairly reliable post) that procs will fire in this order: Slot 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I'm not a numbers guy, but since then I've rearranged my -res procs and put them on slot 6. And in other instances, I put +chance to hold or +mag 2 hold in 6 so if it doesn't fire, other procs in the slots before it might make up for it.

 

Guys.  It doesn't really matter.  Yes. Combat log will show them in order from right (6) to lpeft (1). But they all fire at the same time as far as the server is concerned.  There are only two cases where someone can gain an advantage from this (that I have found, to date):

 

1. Procs in Burn.  Because Burn double-dips Procs (broken power is broken) it is possible for Burn to activate a -Res piece which will then boost damage of its own damage procs.  This is a side effect of Burn and no one has yet posted a power that behaves similarly.

 

This:

 

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

which is why, as you surmise, many people put the -res to the far right.  if it goes off the procs following work better.

 

... is false.  This happens in Burn, and only in Burn.  Every other power I have tested does not do this.  Procs all fire simultaneously and do not interact with each other in this way during a single power execution.

 

2. Delayed Damage Powers can be boosted by their own -Res piece.  I have personally tested this in Mass Levitate and Savage Leap.  Here it also does not matter what slot is used.  Put it in slot 1 or in slot 6 and the effect is the same.  The key here is that the damage is on delay, and thus triggered in server time after procs have fired with the power's activation.  This means that ML and SL (maybe other powers on delay that I have not tested) can boost damage with their own -Res procs.

 

Every single other instance I tested and it really doesn't matter.  We're seeing them in logs in that order, but for calculations they all fire at the same time.  Putting -Res in front won't boost the damage procs in line after it, and putting something with a duration (SCS +50%, FF+rech, etc) as the last to fire will NOT give you back extra duration.

 

This urban legend of firing order is partially my fault.  Yes. Combat Log lists them from Right to Left, or 6 to 1. No they are not actually activating at separate times and do not influence each other within a single power activation.  It's all on the tick that counts as the power's activation.  Same time.  Logs are just linear, that's it.

 

I still slot duration effects to the left and damage/debuff effects to the right, because that is the correct application for OCD. 😄

Edited June 4, 2022 by InvaderStych

[Uun]

4 hours ago, Six-Six said:

I do a lot of Pillar missions. And I'm not sure if I notice it wrong, but some of my procs (like Devastation +chance to hold) which should be slottable at 27 still work when I'm exemplared to 15. Same with the End mod (I forget the name) +chance to heal. I have a L25 slotted but still get HP floaters at 15, though the attuned ones are slottable at 18. 

Procs only care about the level of the power they're slotted in. If the power is active, the proc will work regardless of its level. Globals (i.e., KB protection) only work 3 levels below the IO level regardless of whether the power is active.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements#Special_IOs_from_Sets

 

[tidge]

9 minutes ago, Uun said:

Procs only care about the level of the power they're slotted in. If the power is active, the proc will work regardless of its level. Globals (i.e., KB protection) only work 3 levels below the IO level regardless of whether the power is active.

 

 

This is one of the reasons why I think it is important do distinguish between Globals and %procs.

 

In rough order of importance when trying to be precise about CoX game terminology:

1. Global enhancement bonuses vs. %procs
2. Henchmen vs. Pets
3. Spawns vs, Mobs
4. Tanking vs. Not Dying

... the last two are practically trivial hobgoblins that aren't specific to CoX, so there may be a few others that fit in above them in this very personal hierarchy.

[Snarky]

23 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

This urban legend of firing order is my fault. 

Stych lied to me so otherwise I was right.

[Clave Dark 5]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

Stych lied to me so otherwise I was right.

You get the torches, I'll get those rakey-looking things.