Masterminds have wanted changes for years now.

[TheZag]

I recommend instead of testing the beta,  become a beta tester.  You could give feedback during the process instead of having to wait until its nearly finished.

[Riverdusk]

Well, there were two points of agreement.  How the pets respond to damage patches is an issue and that grave knights could use some s/l resistance.  I agree with both of those as well, give those poor grave knights some s/l resistance.  Been thinking that for a while, they tend heavily toward melee and I see them as the bruisers of the set.  

[plainguy]

On 7/30/2022 at 10:57 AM, arcane said:

 

Is English your first language? What in gods name are you talking about that has anything to do with what you quoted? I am so confused.

Again 

Stop.. You are now again trying to pull this conversation even further away from your original comment.. 

Is English yours?
 

 

On 7/29/2022 at 11:35 AM, arcane said:

Pretty weird to bring up your choice to make donations multiple times. Surely you aren’t implying that your donations entitle you to some kind of special treatment.

Again 

Out of everything I said.. You make this statement and I clearly explained in my original post and the follow up.. 

But again I will repeat myself.. 
I pay regardless of what is being put out. 
There is nothing in this patch that interest me or that I will be playing.  
I would have rather had those costume options in the character creator then as a skin and the powers options that come with the better versions of the costumes. 
Again I did not see much of that ever posted in suggestions. I did not see that posted in the discord chats that were held.. 

I believe unfortunately that Masterminds are just too hard for them to really fix.. Plain and Simple.. 

@Zepp took the time to constantly pool all the power sets that people requested together.. Maybe they should have looked in that direction to see what power sets they should create beyond this bard set.

Again I honestly cannot recall seeing a request this power set. But I can tell you I have seen a bunch of request for a whips set. 

The OP and others have valid points which they backed with some numbers.. 

But I will keep paying and I will wait for that day that I see some cool Mastermind updates..
Until then I will Play my Masterminds, My petless and Semi Petless Masterminds and Now Power Pool only builds to have more of a challenge. 

But I am honestly am starting to wonder what the value of this suggestion and Feedback forum is, because they make power sets that I just do not see players suggesting and trust me I am here enough during the week to look at the new posts. So it is NOT like I come here once a month and just look at the 10 current post in Suggestion and Feedback and I move on. 

I would rather they just say these are the Archtypes we can do a lot of work in and are much easier than Masterminds and then poll the players on which power set players might be interested in seeing, or just go back to the discord discussions and do a consensus here as well Or just look up Zepp Thread.. 

 

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Again I honestly cannot recall seeing a request this power set. But I can tell you I have seen a bunch of request for a whips set. 

The OP and others have valid points which they backed with some numbers..

Whips as a standalone power set was mechanically not feasible according to the Live devs. That is why we have the Demon Summoning set with range attacks using whip animations and not whip attacks. If that has changed? Then yes please, a whip power set not embedded in the Demon Summoning set would be welcome.

 

And the OP didn't make a point with any numbers. The OP didn't even comment about what changes were being asked for. It was specifically "Masterminds have wanted changes for years. And what did we get? Bards." On an update still being worked on that the devs are asking for feedback on. And when the author was told to go post his rant, I mean, feedback, where the devs said to post the patch's feedback? He declined. Petulantly.

 

From what I've seen the devs doing both on Live and here? A simple damage boost is something they try to avoid if they think there are better fixes. From reading the patch notes, it looks to me like the devs did try to fix Masterminds in general, and Mercenaries specifically. For Mercenaries, they reduced the duration of the DoTs so now they do damage faster, improved the pet attack animation times according to someone who went to the test server and tested the changes, and fixed what powers were being assigned to the pets. All those are attempts to fix the Mercenaries set. They aren't the fix the author wants, but they are attempts at fixes. And if those attempts are insufficient? They should be reported on the patch feedback threads. Feedback about the Mercenaries possibly needing more damage still even after the updates' changes could have been given on the update feedback threads like the devs asked. If you were writing code and trying to make sure it worked, fulfilled your intentions, and didn't introduce any new bugs to the system, would you spend your time on the HC Suggestions and Feedback forum or would your attention be solely focused on the Beta Suggestions and Feedback threads where you asked for feedback?

 

As for Masterminds in general? As you and others have stated, the AT is likely difficult to balance because of the way it works. However, the complaints given? Except for a few, are strictly play style and opinion.

[plainguy]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

And the OP didn't make a point with any numbers. The OP didn't even comment about what changes were being asked for. It was specifically "Masterminds have wanted changes for years. And what did we get? Bards." On an update still being worked on that the devs are asking for feedback on. And when the author was told to go post his rant, I mean, feedback, where the devs said to post the patch's feedback? He declined. Petulantly.

Just a comment on this.. I said the OP and OTHERS. I didn't bother to look who attached those files from the first page of this thread regarding some information..  This is why I intentionally added and others to encompass either him or them posting some numbers..  So it was the OP or someone else, but someone posted numbers.

They are asking the OP what? to review something he might not use or play? 
I play Masterminds. I have TONS of masterminds.. But not a single Merc.. Never liked them.. 
I wouldn't know the difference between before and after.. 

But I do play Robots so I did make an input for the Bubble changes and asked players on the Mastermind forums some thoughts around it. To see if I was maybe missing something.

The Bard spec.. I will never play.. I totally dislike the musical notes thing.. I am not even crazy about Sonic in all honesty.. 
My constant gripe with Masterminds is the endurance punishment.. They pay more for similar powers that do less. EG Dual Pistol attacks. But that is a different topic.. 
But I can discuss that because I am familiar with that issue. I can discuss the pet summoning and I can discuss the upgrade issue that I disagree with and the time delay between summoning and upgrading which makes the pets attackable but they cannot attack back and further the delay between upgrading and summoning.. 

Again everyone has their niche.. This update is completely out of my niche.. 

I have said this several times.. I will say it yet again..

The costume thing.. Who asked for this involved system around costumes ? I thought they said they will never have something between the have an have nots.. These costume tokens from what I am reading will require MONTHS to obtain. So basically the casual player will more than likely never obtain anything significant from these costumes.. 
As I see it,  I log into a game to create a hero/villain I spend X amount of time in the costume creator or in game at the store redoing my costume. But now I am going to super impose my hero costume with that of a COT skin and from my reading I will get some attack powers from that skin based on how rare it is.  Or I misunderstood the posting about the costumes and getting their powers.. 

Again GREAT RP thing. But I see no other value to it. 
I would have rather they made fly changes where you could use the magic carpet or rocket board or jetpack appear when you turn on fly and still be able to use your power as you could while flying.. 

Again I get it, it is work for the Devs..  I will let the Devs do whatever they want, as I have no control.  I will pay and play and maybe one day there will be a patch that I can more fully get behind. 

But the OP and others made some valid points even if some didn't like the delivery.. 

And once again I will repeat and make a blanket statement on this whole patch.

Beyond the fixes mentioned ( Merc changes), I have not found anywhere where people/players asked for this type of costume change or Bard power set.. 

 

 

[lemming]

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

As I see it,  I log into a game to create a hero/villain I spend X amount of time in the costume creator or in game at the store redoing my costume. But now I am going to super impose my hero costume with that of a COT skin and from my reading I will get some attack powers from that skin based on how rare it is.  Or I misunderstood the posting about the costumes and getting their powers..

The only powers are the costumes themselves.   (And you can buy a power to change costumes, but no attack powers are even mentioned

[plainguy]

48 minutes ago, lemming said:

The only powers are the costumes themselves.   (And you can buy a power to change costumes, but no attack powers are even mentioned

I mis-read then, I thought the rare ones listed something about powers. 

Can you use your powers while in the costume I guess is my question.. Usually no.. 

 

[lemming]

40 minutes ago, plainguy said:

I mis-read then, I thought the rare ones listed something about powers. 

Can you use your powers while in the costume I guess is my question.. Usually no.. 

 

I didn't do a full comprehensive test, but mini-me seemed to be fully functional.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

I mis-read then, I thought the rare ones listed something about powers. 

Can you use your powers while in the costume I guess is my question.. Usually no.. 

 

According to the beta notes and the data on the already existing costume powers, including how they already work as used every Halloween, they do not replace your character's powers, just your character's appearance and power animations. Except for toggle powers that are primarily stealth such as... ahem... Stealth.... Stealth powers do not work in conjunction with costume powers as normal.

 

Edit: To clarify, the added costume powers work exactly like the already available costume powers except that they are permanent powers each character can individually acquire.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Rudra

[Rudra]

21 hours ago, plainguy said:

I would have rather had those costume options in the character creator then as a skin and the powers options that come with the better versions of the costumes. 
Again I did not see much of that ever posted in suggestions. I did not see that posted in the discord chats that were held.. 

And yes, players have been asking for permanent versions of the Malta Gunslinger and Carnival of Shadows Harlequin ever since those costume powers were released, so this is a request players have wanted for years.

[Force Redux]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:39 AM, TheZag said:

MMs havent received any new powersets but the henchmen recharge time reduction has been very helpful.  I dont recall any new control sets yet either,  so control is just as due as henchmen.

 

The fact that we get updates at all from an unpaid team on free servers is amazing.

 

 

The henchman AI changes were also super useful QoL stuff! 🙂🙂🙂

[plainguy]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:56 AM, plainguy said:

Again 

Stop.. You are now again trying to pull this conversation even further away from your original comment.. 

Is English yours?
 

 

Again 

Out of everything I said.. You make this statement and I clearly explained in my original post and the follow up.. 

But again I will repeat myself.. 
I pay regardless of what is being put out. 
There is nothing in this patch that interest me or that I will be playing.  
I would have rather had those costume options in the character creator then as a skin and the powers options that come with the better versions of the costumes. 
Again I did not see much of that ever posted in suggestions. I did not see that posted in the discord chats that were held.. 

I believe unfortunately that Masterminds are just too hard for them to really fix.. Plain and Simple.. 

@Zepp took the time to constantly pool all the power sets that people requested together.. Maybe they should have looked in that direction to see what power sets they should create beyond this bard set.

Again I honestly cannot recall seeing a request this power set. But I can tell you I have seen a bunch of request for a whips set. 

The OP and others have valid points which they backed with some numbers.. 

But I will keep paying and I will wait for that day that I see some cool Mastermind updates..
Until then I will Play my Masterminds, My petless and Semi Petless Masterminds and Now Power Pool only builds to have more of a challenge. 

But I am honestly am starting to wonder what the value of this suggestion and Feedback forum is, because they make power sets that I just do not see players suggesting and trust me I am here enough during the week to look at the new posts. So it is NOT like I come here once a month and just look at the 10 current post in Suggestion and Feedback and I move on. 

I would rather they just say these are the Archtypes we can do a lot of work in and are much easier than Masterminds and then poll the players on which power set players might be interested in seeing, or just go back to the discord discussions and do a consensus here as well Or just look up Zepp Thread.. 

 

@arcane completely understand why you would be confused. 

 

[The_Warpact]

I pulled out my Merc/Trap MM last night and ran on a team. We did the Kahn tf and the Eden Trial. Had a blast and was super helpful for the team (3 acid mortars ftw). The boys did good stood up and laid down suppressing fire to assist the 2 broots.

On Crystal Titan had a few times getting wiped (diff was upped) so that's to be expected. 

But, the point I'm trying to convey is that it is a good team MM, it will never be a solo AV/GM kind of MM. Lethal is too resisted in those things and even with 3 acid mortar there never will be enough damage to do it.

 

And that's fine, every MM shouldn't be unstoppable, just as every AT powerset combo isn't powerful. 

 

BUT, MMs do need some love in areas, costume changes for the pets, at incarnate lvls pets should be higher lvl even -1 to the MM would be a significant change to balance, and finally minor changes to dmg patches, having the correct attack chain, pet AI tweaks.

 

In this I watched my Commando last night go from being in range and suddenly run a fair distance to engage in melee with the flamethrower....um why, no reason to do this at all. I think shoring up stuff like this would significantly bring MMs into a more balanced world.

[plainguy]

I will repeat.

Not a slight or challenge to the Devs.

Who in the Eff, can read code from 10+ years ago and then try to discern as they work on balancing out ArchTypes with tweaks here and there and are not consistent with a specific model /playbook.. Basically its jury rigging something until it works right.. But now let someone else come in and try to understand what someone was thinking 10+ years ago with no documentation. 

I think Blasters  and similar AT fall into a category with minimal code changes.. Same for Tank and Brute and Scrapper.  

But when it comes to Masterminds, it probably is just totally another animal. They can't relate it to something else. So I think they try to work on it but ( as I have said in the past on this thread) they start to realize it is just too much time wasted on one AT. 

But beyond this..  I would love to get some understanding or have the Devs work on things like.
Trip mine on Devices, the interrupt was removed, but not on Traps. Why? 
Is there some point system or some requirement that because Trip Mine is on Traps it cannot have its interrupt removed?
Time Bomb? I have yet to hear anyone like it. 
I have tested out Time Bomb and it literally misses targets.. Time Bomb for the delay it has and such, ESPECIALLY on Masterminds as it destroys a pet should be auto hit and be like a mini nuke.. Example, 8 Time Bombs against HAMI should give it some decent damage.  Time Bomb on a Fire farm should give you a crater of 20 dead mobs.. But it doesn't.. 

Personally, I say we have enough powers and Arch Types for now..  

I say work on modifying powers. EG player picks up AR/ Trick Arrow. But the player wants all Trick Arrow attacks to come from his Assault Rifle. Work on doing that.. 
Player wants Assault Rifle, but he wants Full auto come out of shoulder mount cannon. 
Or player picks up Energy beam and wants his beams to come from shoulder mount cannon. Predator style. 
Or a set of Magic affects for powers, So a player could play Energy Blast but it's sorcerer style.

This is where I think it will excel. 
Dual pistols.. Give  it laser gun affects.. 

 

Plant Manipulation, give it some of the earth affects options..

Yea, its plant manipulation but with earth affects now I am playing "earth control guy" someone who can control the earth to do the same thing that another player "plant lord" on the team is doing with plants. 

Give it the affects of Soul Mastery and Now I am a player that summons energy tendrils to do my bidding like "earth control guy" and "plant lord" are doing.

Plant Control, Give it a tech look. 

Now Plant Manipulation by power set name has 2 other options !!!.. Now someone who used to say Plant Manipulation sucks and I hate the looks of it..
Now might say, but I can get behind an earth theme or Soul Mastery theme.. 

This would rejuvenate something old and stagnant. 
You see this all the time with Kitchen renovations... 
You can't afford new cabinets ? Replace the handles.. Change the doors for a fresh new look, or remove the doors for an open atmosphere. 
This is what the devs should be doing.. Not bards.. I literally seen the set and I thought of Piano Tie. 

Now you have a player that can actually make a wizard, pick up Energy blast Magic thematic and Plant Manipulation Soul Mastery thematic along with Sorcery power pool and truly be a full blow Thematic character.. 

Sonic Power sets, make them come from a device. 

Now that you have a Sorcery Theme.. Give the options of powers coming from a staff or wand. 

Traps.. Set.. Make it some organic set..  Acid mortar is a plant spitting out some blobs..  FFG is floating thing like a small different colored Watcher from from Soldiers of Rularuu. 

Or give different tech looks for traps. 

Why do this? 

 

Because when you do this for all or many of the viable Existing sets.. When you want to create more sets later on.. You will have a plethora of effects ready at your disposal.

Give people Iron Man.. Without giving them Iron man.. Give people the Predator, without giving them the Predator.. Give them Dr. Strange, again without giving them Dr. Strange.

You did this with the costumes.. Give the powers new skins.. 

Get a temp service to do the animation.  
When you request donations..  Close the window at the 5k you need. But  allow people to donate but let them get a rejection as full. But see what your max for the months could be.. 

So you know you need 5k.. 
But you realize over the last 8 months you actually can bring in 8k.. So now you know, you can temporarily hire someone for X amount to do this work.
So you go for 1k more each month for 3 months.. And  find someone who is willing to maybe take a side job understanding what it is for and accept 1k each months for 3 months.. 

I am sure you will have people eager who are looking to get into the business to do this work.  
The great thing as well, you are giving someone the opportunity to do something for a game.. It's great for them and their resume.. 
This gives now gives the Dev team cycles to do something else.. 

It is a win/win and you are helping out someone to build a resume. 
Find a school that does this and get interns.. 

You don't have the time for this.. Let me know and I will do the leg work and find a school or people with the skill. 
Just tell me what you need so I know what to ask. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by plainguy

[TheZag]

And then the people that are working for free would wonder why they work for free when that other guy is getting paid.  And someone getting paid means someone is profiting from the game.  We dont need to wake up the sleeping dog that is NC by having them miss out on more money.  But even if NC doesnt care,  how much would this 3rd party get paid before people on the team get irritated that it isnt them?

 

Paying a few but not all is a recipe for disaster.  It doesnt bring in nearly enough money to pay the entire team so it has to stay volunteer with capped donations to stay fair for the whole team.

 

[Rudra]

There is a reason why monthly donations are capped at just keeping the servers running. There is a reason why the current dev team is all unpaid volunteers using their free time to update and fix the game. Until HC's negotiations get this game official again, it is the only way to be able to play the game.

[plainguy]

2 hours ago, TheZag said:

And then the people that are working for free would wonder why they work for free when that other guy is getting paid.  And someone getting paid means someone is profiting from the game.  We dont need to wake up the sleeping dog that is NC by having them miss out on more money.  But even if NC doesnt care,  how much would this 3rd party get paid before people on the team get irritated that it isnt them?

 

Paying a few but not all is a recipe for disaster.  It doesnt bring in nearly enough money to pay the entire team so it has to stay volunteer with capped donations to stay fair for the whole team.

 

Frist off no one gets paid who works as a volunteer on HC that is the whole point of a non-profit.  But they can pay for services to maintain and advance the non-profit. 

You might be able to get some student who needs something for their resume. Related to what this work is considered, Graphics art? Animation?  

But if no one in the Non profit organization has the skills to do this work, then they can hire someone. 
It all depends on what you want to spend your limited resources on, work wise.. 
It is obvious they want to create new powers sets.. Thus the Bard and previous power sets. 

Those volunteering are adults, not kids.. They understand how this goes.. 
I come from a LE background. I do computer forensics, incident response and now do threat intelligence..  Computer Forensic wise I have testified as an expert within the New York area. But by no means do I know it all and never will I say that. 
I understand cars, I can fix certain things.. But I don't understand it all. I hire someone to fix my car.

I see no problem with trying it out.. 

 

[plainguy]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

There is a reason why monthly donations are capped at just keeping the servers running. There is a reason why the current dev team is all unpaid volunteers using their free time to update and fix the game. Until HC's negotiations get this game official again, it is the only way to be able to play the game.

That is not how a non-profit works. You are misinformed.   - Keeping this up.

But let me correct myself. 

There a lot more to a non-profit. There is a lot more they can and are allowed to. 
Further I know many people that work for non-profits and collect a salary. 

The people running it cannot make a profit.  They can't make money on the property of someone else's game.  
But someone NOT WORKING directly in the organization which is HC can make money.. EG the legal services they pay for. The server company that host the gaming servers.. ETC.. 

But humor me. 

You read it all because the ONLY thing you have contention is paying which is at the end of the post.

Let's us ignore the paying part.. 

Do you see a validity in making thematic animation effects to power set ?

Edited August 8, 2022 by plainguy

[Rudra]

HC is not a non-profit. HC is a tolerated pirate server with a veneer of legitimacy. They are not permitted to make money. They would have to make money to hire outside agencies. They are permitted to solicit enough donations to operate the servers only. Not a penny more. This discussion has been had repeatedly.

 

Edit: Actually this discussion was had with you, @plainguy, on the "Paying extra for improvements" thread. So by all means, resume this discussion. Get this thread locked too.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Rudra

[plainguy]

20 hours ago, Rudra said:

HC is not a non-profit. HC is a tolerated pirate server with a veneer of legitimacy. They are not permitted to make money. They would have to make money to hire outside agencies. They are permitted to solicit enough donations to operate the servers only. Not a penny more. This discussion has been had repeatedly.

 

Edit: Actually this discussion was had with you, @plainguy, on the "Paying extra for improvements" thread. So by all means, resume this discussion. Get this thread locked too.

As I already commented on this, on another reply.. 

That was the last thing I said.. 

That is all you got out of that post..

Forget that part, you posted above. 

What do you think of thematic power sets options.. EG magic or tech.. 
 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

What do you think of thematic power sets options.. EG magic or tech.. 

It doesn't make sense to me. I'm not a fan. I'm not going to argue against it though. Others are likely to want it and enjoy it.

[plainguy]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It doesn't make sense to me. I'm not a fan. I'm not going to argue against it though. Others are likely to want it and enjoy it.

It's just power customization really.  

But it more than changing Energy Blast from blue to red. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by plainguy

[Rudra]

I get that. What I don't understand is why anyone would ask for earth animations for Plant Control when the AT already has Earth Control.

 

Edit: Okay, I misread. It was Plant Manipulation, not Control. And I see no earth secondaries for Blasters. (Or primaries for that matter.)

Edited August 9, 2022 by Rudra

[TygerDarkstorm]

49 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I get that. What I don't understand is why anyone would ask for earth animations for Plant Control when the AT already has Earth Control.

 

Edit: Okay, I misread. It was Plant Manipulation, not Control. And I see no earth secondaries for Blasters. (Or primaries for that matter.)

Erm, Blasters have Seismic Blast and Manipulation (which is basically an earth blast/secondary).

[Rudra]

*sigh* I need to update my Mids. Again. They aren't listed. Thanks.

 

Edit: Which brings me back to my original confusion. Why ask for earth animations for Plant Manipulation when the AT has Earth Manipulation?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Rudra