The Pretty Good AE Debate

[Parabola]

It's a massive shame the croatoa farm map (the one used for that irritating 'stop 30 fir bolg getting to the portal' mission) isn't used for farming. I mean, come on ... It's actually a farm ...

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Parabola said:

It's a massive shame the croatoa farm map (the one used for that irritating 'stop 30 fir bolg getting to the portal' mission) isn't used for farming. I mean, come on ... It's actually a farm ...

thats the mission that I save my weekly auto complete for. I hate that one with a passion.

[Darmian]

5 hours ago, Puma said:

Make one of them a "farming shard" or a "no-farming" shard and see, in our own population, how that plays out. 

Yeah, but no.

[biostem]

9 minutes ago, Krimson said:

In all fairness, it's my fault for not predicting the NIMBY response when I suggested a shard without AE, even though the legions of anti-farmers would surely jump at the chance to have a farm free Shard.

Cutting out the AE, without removing the ability to email stuff or transfer characters over, would be a meaningless gesture.  Such a shard would have to be entirely isolated from anything to do with the others...

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Why would it be meaningless when the point is to be able to offer players who want it, a space where LFG is free from farm requests? Have you ever seen how the complaints work in game? They are responses to what is happening in the LFG channel. THAT is the aspect which seems to upset people. I see no problem in offering a slightly different experience without restricting travel. Maybe the farm free players want to pop over to Indom or Torch once in a while and run some 801 or Dev's Choice missions. Then they can pop back to their own AE free space and continue running endless radios, Maria Jenkins, and ITF.

I have seen the LFG chats, and it is extremely easy to ignore or otherwise work around those looking for farms.  Regardless, even if you got what you wanted, what you'd end up with is a ghost town of a server, and since those besides Excelsior or Everlasting seem to be pretty sparse now, would only exacerbate things...

[Troo]

56 minutes ago, Krimson said:

In all fairness, it's my fault for not predicting the NIMBY response when I suggested a shard without AE, even though the legions of anti-farmers would surely jump at the chance to have a farm free Shard. 😛

 

Hey, fund it.. and maybe the devs will do it.. and maybe they'll come.

[biostem]

47 minutes ago, FriezaReturns00001 said:

Similar situation with SWTOR PVP only servers, they just merged the two remaining and just had PVP opt-in instead of just a singular server by default PVP was turned on. Conversely here, I thought about a AE only shard, where it's only just Mercy/Atlas and nothing else but the AE building ~~ would the ones who want to do fire farms and so on just migrate their farmer toons there since all you'd have to do is character transfer and those reset every tuesday... unless folks are that lazy and won't do this?

 

I am curious.

I generally only use my own tunnel farm to get my characters to about level 22, so I can slot level 25 IOs and get a decent foundation in for them, so I can't speak for everyone, but my understanding is that people either sit in on farms to get 50s so they can do the end game content, or to generate lots of influence for bully tricking out their characters with IOs.  In either case, isolating things to just the AE buildings would result in a ghost town...

[biostem]

I would like to make an alternate proposal - create an official chat channel, (let's call it "AE") - if you're looking to recruit or join in on *any* content in Architect Entertainment, you MUST use this channel, (you'd need to have a grace period and several clear notices/warnings to this extent), then people who want nothing to do with it can simply turn off the channel and never be bothered again.  Anyone using the regular LFG or other channels for AE stuff can be kindly reminded to use the correct channel, then be given warnings and/or harsher measures can be taken, for repeated or intentional violations... 

Edited July 30, 2022 by biostem

[ShardWarrior]

27 minutes ago, biostem said:

I would like to make an alternate proposal - create an official chat channel, (let's call it "AE") - if you're looking to recruit or join in on *any* content in Architect Entertainment, you MUST use this channel, (you'd need to have a grace period and several clear notices/warnings to this extent), then people who want nothing to do with it can simply turn off the channel and never be bothered again.  Anyone using the regular LFG or other channels for AE stuff can be kindly reminded to use the correct channel, then be given warnings and/or harsher measures can be taken, for repeated or intentional violations... 

 

As good a suggestion as this is, it will not satisfy the select few on the inner circle who will not rest until farming and/or AE are removed from the game.

[Astralock]

36 minutes ago, biostem said:

I would like to make an alternate proposal - create an official chat channel, (let's call it "AE") - if you're looking to recruit or join in on *any* content in Architect Entertainment, you MUST use this channel, (you'd need to have a grace period and several clear notices/warnings to this extent), then people who want nothing to do with it can simply turn off the channel and never be bothered again.  Anyone using the regular LFG or other channels for AE stuff can be kindly reminded to use the correct channel, then be given warnings and/or harsher measures can be taken, for repeated or intentional violations... 

 

There already is a Mission Architect chat channel built-in to the game, called Architect Chat.  Just no one uses it as you have to manually add it to a chat tab.

[Ghost]

I’ve suggested this somewhere before - make AE it’s own instance.  In other words, when inside, your chat (regardless of channel) is only visible inside AE.   Also, make it so you can only invite players already inside AE.

I think if people saw less “sitter looking for farm”, they would eventually forget all about farmers.

 

Oit of curiosity, why are people suddenly throwing around the “inner circle” conspiracy?  
I’ve seen it brought up in a few different threads.  Is that the only explanation people can come up with for differing opinions, or is there actual evidence of this?

Edited July 30, 2022 by Ghost

[Excraft]

21 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Oit of curiosity, why are people suddenly throwing around the “inner circle” conspiracy?  

 

It's not a conspiracy theory.  Hang around the forums long enough and you'll see.

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

It's not a conspiracy theory.  Hang around the forums long enough and you'll see.

Guess I just take what people say at face value.

 

[Ruin Mage]

4 hours ago, Ghost said:

Oit of curiosity, why are people suddenly throwing around the “inner circle” conspiracy?  
I’ve seen it brought up in a few different threads.  Is that the only explanation people can come up with for differing opinions, or is there actual evidence of this?

It's a conspiracy theory that the devs only listen to a few specific people, but they're proven wrong at every turn.

 

 

4 hours ago, Excraft said:

t's not a conspiracy theory.  Hang around the forums long enough and you'll see.

Trying to emulate Alex Jones is not a good look for you, Excraft

[Parabola]

5 hours ago, Ghost said:

Oit of curiosity, why are people suddenly throwing around the “inner circle” conspiracy?  
I’ve seen it brought up in a few different threads.  Is that the only explanation people can come up with for differing opinions, or is there actual evidence of this?

Yeah this is just sad. Of course there is nothing behind it but there is no arguing with this kind of thinking either here or anywhere else, mores the pity.

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

It's a conspiracy theory that the devs only listen to a few specific people, but they're proven wrong at every turn.

 

If you say so.  🤣

 

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

Trying to emulate Alex Jones is not a good look for you, Excraft

 

And insulting others is a good look for you?   Give me a break.

[Ruin Mage]

I mean, I'm not the one going "Just look around and you'll see I'm right."

I'll entertain the conspiracy theory for one post - where is the actual proof that the devs have some sort of inner cabal for changes? Don't say the Gold Standard Discord because that's...one huge cabal if so. An open invite cabal at that. Strange.

Symphony Control? New powersets have a history of not coming from the forums. I point at Electrical Affinity.
AE changes? The community is split down the middle on it and the biggest one was walked back.
Sonic changes? Eh, they have done power changes before. Some that remain contested on if they were good or not.
Sheathed weapons have been asked for since live.
New HM TF + New incarnate Arc + New repeatables? Woah, more content!

Or is it the fact that the devs haven't implemented things you want? 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Darmian]

6 hours ago, Excraft said:

Hang around the forums long enough and you'll see.

I HAVE been hanging around the forums long enough. And where is this thing?

[Parabola]

We're through the looking glass here people.

 

https://youtu.be/ut3I6gFmlls

[Puma]

14 hours ago, FriezaReturns00001 said:

Can confirm, I play on Thunderspy, there's none it's essentially for that rose tinted glasses bunch that want to run stuff int he game the slow-way aka WoW classic, the only thing over there I've seen was the reward window for buffs or benefits but it unlocks the pyrimid as you play. 

Maybe I'm getting Thunderspy and Rebirth confused.  I thought Rebirth was basically the "We kept it just like live" server and Thunderspy was the one with guardians, etc.  

[Ruin Mage]

Rebirth has the Guardian and changes, but it tries to keep it live-like in what it does I think - think "these are our motives behind x changes."
Thunderspy is "lets spin the wheel and see what we get." in terms of changes, but that is how it looks from the outside. It does sound like it also incorporates the "as close to Live as we think we can get." angle, but eh.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Excraft]

44 minutes ago, Darmian said:

I HAVE been hanging around the forums long enough. And where is this thing?

 

You're all welcome to bury your heads in the sand.  These posts are all going to get hidden anyway. 

[Puma]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

I mean, I'm not the one going "Just look around and you'll see I'm right."

I'll entertain the conspiracy theory for one post - where is the actual proof that the devs have some sort of inner cabal for changes? Don't say the Gold Standard Discord because that's...one huge cabal if so. An open invite cabal at that. Strange.

Symphony Control? New powersets have a history of not coming from the forums. I point at Electrical Affinity.
AE changes? The community is split down the middle on it and the biggest one was walked back.
Sonic changes? Eh, they have done power changes before. Some that remain contested on if they were good or not.
Sheathed weapons have been asked for since live.
New HM TF + New incarnate Arc + New repeatables? Woah, more content!

Or is it the fact that the devs haven't implemented things you want? 

The Devs definitely listen to everyone. Ive seen first hand that they make changes before things even come to HC testing based on player feedback.  I've seen them develop powersets like Feral and go back and forth for months trying to figure out how to find compromise.  I've seen them attempt reworking Sentinels, and try multiple suggestions from players. 

 

But they also weigh suggestions from people differently. Some players DO carry more weight with the Devs because they have been around forever and a relationship has been built. This is natural and you'll find it everywhere.  Sometimes it's annoying, and it can actually lead to bad design at times because often those most likely to do extensive testing/be close to the devs are going to be more likely to be "cheer lead" and cut slack on things a Dev wants that the general population DOESN'T.  But that's life. 

 

The issue is, some Devs really have their own specific vision for how the game should work, etc. and it takes a LOT of wrangling from what people would call the "inner circle" to keep them from implementing it all.  Which...again...is nothing new to CoH.   That's been happening since it started, and different visions from different Devs over time proved it.  

 

I'm not sure pointing to Electrical Affinity, a powerset created by  these Devs, as an example of a "history of not coming from the forums" is rather effective. And it's a valid question why, when the Devs know there is pent up demand or some specific sets and archetypes, Devs are working on side projects that they like instead.  But again, that is their prerogative.  I dont know that "split down the middle" is really accurate about AE. It sounds like, from this thread and others, a small but vocal group is unhappy and wants changes but most seem to be OK with things as they are.  And as for new arcs, etc....I have to say that the Dev they have in charge of creating new arcs right now is amazing.  She seriously works HARD to get player input, even down to the vision of villain groups, and makes changes based on player feed back quickly, and even with an air of thankfulness for the opinions, not resistance to them.   If I had a Gold Star, that Dev would get it.  

What Id actually LOVE to see from this sever is a large scale set of polling done to see what the current HC players feel about the state of the game, the direction they'd like to see it go, AND where they'd like to see resources focused, down to specific powersets, and have he Devs publicly respond with a long term roadmap. They did a minor one a while ago, but I want one with enough detail and specifics to give actual, usable data.   I would  help them create the damn thing.  But find out if they Devs overall vision matches most  of the players', and if so, let the players know where you're HOPING to go over the course of the next several issues (generally) and if not, see how to better make them align.  Maybe the Devs REALLY DO think that some of the game's mechanics need a modernization and rebalancing even if the population doesn't, but then maybe the devs could say "but lets also start giving them x while we do that, to try and meet in the middle.  

  

X of course, being Guardians and a Moon Base zone. 😉 

 

I think that could go a long way to easing a LOT of the conflict every time a patch comes out.  It would seem less "distance" and the Devs would have an actual external thing to point at and show that they're trying to satisfy the players by doing what they're doing in a way everyone can see. 

 

And you could encourage people to participate in it by not just setting the link here in the forums but by offering a badge or temp power in game reward for completing it. 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Puma

[Puma]

9 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Rebirth has the Guardian and changes, but it tries to keep it live-like in what it does I think - think "these are our motives behind x changes."
Thunderspy is "lets spin the wheel and see what we get." in terms of changes, but that is how it looks from the outside. It does sound like it also incorporates the "as close to Live as we think we can get." angle, but eh.

Ok, I'm fairly certain that Thunderspy has serious farming.  I play mostly on Cake New Dawn, but when I've gone to Thunderspy I always find teams and see offers for Farming, etc.  

[arcane]

8 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

As good a suggestion as this is, it will not satisfy the select few on the inner circle who will not rest until farming and/or AE are removed from the game.

UltraAlt sure. Who else?