Shield Customization Suggestions

[That Ninja]

Hey there, I have a few ideas for some expanded customization options for shields defense. There's probably a lot of different design ideas people have, but this is just working with what's already there.

 

1. Invisible Shield/No Shield Option

Sometimes its hard to make a shield fit a costume design and sometimes you want to give the impression that a piece of your costume is being used as your shield, like a large gauntlet or robot hand. Since the shield is just a static thing on your character model and isn't thrown around, this option should simple to add, like the no growth bio armor or stone armor options.

 

2. Different Sizes of Shields

It would be nice to have options for larger or smaller shields. For some costumes, it would be ideal to have a small shield like a small buckler or something that looks like an integrated part of the costume and doesn't stand out, while some might like a bigger shield that looks like it covers more, so perhaps adding a large and small resized option for shields would be possible in the future.

 

3. Different Shield Rotations

Much like the size idea, sometimes for aesthetics the current shield positions aren't always ideal. It would be nice to have say a cavalier shield run longways along your character's arm, ending in either the point or the top at your fist or holding the heater shield like characters do in dark souls games or what have you. 

[Rudra]

1. Invisible Shield/No Shield

What? Why take shield if you're not going to use a shield? Blocking with a gauntlet or robotic hand is a hand-to-hand/unarmed block, not a shield block. Using a cestus, wrapping your hands and forearms to protect them, and pretty much anything else that localized typically falls under some form of martial arts or brawling. You would probably be better off taking Invulnerability, Ninjutsu, Super Reflexes, or Willpower for that concept.

 

2. Different Sizes of Shields

Okay, yeah. Typically, you would want a shield to more or less fit the average soldier that would be carrying it, so they would normally be a standard size, in as much as anything could be standard sized with industry as poor as it was back then. And the only small shields I know of are targes and bucklers. However, while I did see targes on the list, I didn't see the smaller buckler listed. Not that a sane warrior with a sword or axe would really want a buckler. The only larger shield that I know of compared to what is in the game, is the tower shield. I didn't see tower shields in the game, but they also weren't really used in combat the way people think of shields. You planted your tower shield and ducked behind it for cover. Portable walls for crossbowmen. However, individuals that can't get a properly sized shield for them, like a not terribly tall giant trying to make use of a human shield for instance, isn't something the current shield sizing allows for. So sure, alternate sizes or the option to scale the shields up or down from standard.

 

3. Different Shield Rotations

See Ascendant Shield, Elemental Shields: Dark Shield, Rularuu's Ward, Tech Shields: Tech Shield, Tribal Shield, and Tech Knight Shield. The thing to consider about the way a large shield is used is that you want it to protect you as much as possible. So say a kite shield, is long enough that it affords protection to your trunk, upper legs, and possibly head if needed, while being wide enough that in a combat stance you still have effectively your entire body safely behind it. Now, if you were to turn it onto a different axis, a huge chunk of that shield is now suddenly doing nothing to protect you while you still have to contend with its weight in combat. And now it also gets in the way of your maneuvers and possibly your fellow soldiers. A heater shield could work though, since you aren't losing much protection carrying it that way.

 

Bear in mind, I am not a medieval weapons and armor expert. Just someone that enjoys reading up on it from time to time. So take my comments with a grain of salt. Except maybe the invisible/no shield option. That one has me completely baffled as to why.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to correct "content" to "contend".

[Clave Dark 5]

1.  Why?  because it gives player options, even if you don't care for those options yourself.

2.  Same, although clipping issues may creep into the consideration for them here.  Also, this game allows for Titan Weapons, Titan Shields doesn't seem silly.

3.   See 1 and 2.  You don't need to be "an expert" on anything, you need to remember this is just comic book stuff.  😃

[Rudra]

I get it is comic book stuff, but comics still use logic. They routinely bend it, but they always try to have a reason that at least in that comic makes sense for why something is the way it is.

 

I will never understand why anyone would take a power set and then not want the powers. Toned down animations? I get that. Not every Fiery Aura character needs to be a raging inferno for instance. Some may only radiate intense heat without the blazing fire. Others may put an inferno to shame for the amount of flame they put out. Power sets with high particle counts being reduced or hidden? I get that too. Some systems struggle with high particle densities and some players are susceptible to induced migraines from them.

 

Shields though? You will probably say I am way off, but this is like asking to have Battle Axe with invisible/no battleaxe. (Use Super Strength.) Or staff fighting with invisible/no staff. (As opposed to translucent axes and staves for energy or maybe the highly unrealistic and impractical diamond weapon/shield. Both options at least make comic book sense.) It's not a question of whether I would use it or not. It is a question of it making sense. Because again, even comics try to make sense. Even when they use Super World Logic, the logic is logical despite being pure garbage.

 

There are powers I will not use. Like Hasten. There are entire power sets I absolutely will not use. Like Thermal Radiation. Others will and do though. I have no problems with that. They enjoy it, more power to them. It is the wanting to take a weapon set or Shield Defense and not have a weapon or shield. That is what confuses me. We have multiple power sets in each AT, and several have the same or at least similar effects. They have different animations, but mechanically would work for any given purpose. So why do people want a weapon or shield set with no weapon or shield?

 

Edit: And before anyone says "Well, the reason was given. The character has a gauntlet or robot hand." That would fall under Invulnerability. You lack the means of using shield powers with a gauntlet or robot hand. You can't form a phalanx formation. You can't use your gauntlet or robot hand to shield others any better than an invul' character. So that makes no sense to me. I'm not the logic police, but I would at least like to understand people's reasoning. Without having to consign myself to a bottle of aspirin.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Rudra

[That Ninja]

Why even come in the thread. Is it really that outrageous when you see a player with no shield and then look into their power profile that they have shield defense that all of reality is crashing down? If we need this level of "realism", why don't we have a cancer and poisoning debuff anytime someone gets too close to someone without the proper hazmat suit options?

 

If you need "realism" or it to "make sense" for a shield to be not there, smaller, larger, or angled differently, then why aren't you making a stink over the fact that all those six shot pistol models fire more shots than they can carry for half of the dual pistols attacks? Why do titan weapons get to have Excalibur or shield defense Blue Steel's shield if canonically only Pendragon and Blue Steel are the only ones supposed to have them? Why don't the fire sword models for katana, dual blades, broad sword, and all the rest don't deal fire damage instead of lethal damage or the laser weapons energy damage?

 

Holy hell, I can understand being reticent about people suggesting things that aren't feasible with the game engine or developer resources, but when specifically asked from the point of view of the easier options to add to the game that lives and dies by how customizable it is, why be so adamant against anything being added to the game? Sometimes I want my shield guy to have a costume that doesn't have a shield, or a large one, or an angled one, and I don't want to make one version called "Hero" with shield defense and another called "x H E R O x" with invulnerability to protect the delicate sensibilities of someone playing a superhero game.

[Rudra]

Please don't misrepresent my post. I said I was fine with the alternate sizes, so you being upset that I am not makes no sense. I gave the reason why shields are carried the way they are, but I also said that the axis change would work for things like heater shields. Which was what you said you wanted. So you being upset that I am against changing the axis makes no sense since I am not against changing the axis for the example you gave.

 

The only part I am actually against is the no shield part. Because a level of sensibility is still called for in a super hero game. Like I said, even comics adhere to a form of plausible logic. The logic may be based on nonsense, but the comics still try to make sense with things that can't happen in the real world.

[biostem]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:31 PM, That Ninja said:

1. Invisible Shield/No Shield Option

Especially since they added the option for asymmetrical gloves, this option would be great.  My only gripe is that we don't have enough "beefy" gauntlet/bracer options atm.

 

On 8/15/2022 at 10:31 PM, That Ninja said:

2. Different Sizes of Shields

This could be tough as I don't think the symbols/emblems scale, and if that is the case, it'd still be nice to have more options, (you just may not be able to use symbols on shields below a certain size).

 

On 8/15/2022 at 10:31 PM, That Ninja said:

3. Different Shield Rotations

Definitely.  Even if it is "technically" wrong to have a shield oriented a certain way, I'm sure folks could RP a reason why your character wields it like that...

[That Ninja]

I would really like if we got the NPC version of the large praetorian police gauntlet in the future.

[Menelruin]

Just add a size slider, then make the shield the size of a penny =P

[espectro]

So like historically sometimes there would be this guy that would hold a shield for you. So after you swing your sword, this guy will run out in front of you and block the counter-attack. But in the game,  you have superpowers, so this guy carrying your shield probably has superpowers too. Like maybe he's super fast and is invisible. So that would explain why it looks like your shield guy has no shield. The invisible guy is carrying the shield and making it invisible.

 

Ok so maybe that's kinda lame cause you could do that with your imagination. But maybe the shield guy's invisibility isn't perfect so part of him actually is visible. Like he has a gold tooth and his powers can't make gold invisible. So when you're looking at this character, you see this gold tooth fly out in front when the character is attacked. A gold tooth is probably something that a small development team can handle in terms of modeling and animation. Maybe some particle effects too.

[Cybersbe]

I actually can see the logic in wanting an invisible shield, if you use asymmetrical gloves to give a character a single armored arm that is used to block attacks.

[Rudra]

That doesn't make sense for Phalanx Fighting or Grant Cover. A single armored arm would be limited coverage invulnerablility. It's your arm. You use your arm to shield your ally from ranged attacks and then watch your ally get shot. Insufficient for shield use.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, espectro said:

So like historically sometimes there would be this guy that would hold a shield for you. So after you swing your sword, this guy will run out in front of you and block the counter-attack. But in the game,  you have superpowers, so this guy carrying your shield probably has superpowers too. Like maybe he's super fast and is invisible. So that would explain why it looks like your shield guy has no shield. The invisible guy is carrying the shield and making it invisible.

 

Ok so maybe that's kinda lame cause you could do that with your imagination. But maybe the shield guy's invisibility isn't perfect so part of him actually is visible. Like he has a gold tooth and his powers can't make gold invisible. So when you're looking at this character, you see this gold tooth fly out in front when the character is attacked. A gold tooth is probably something that a small development team can handle in terms of modeling and animation. Maybe some particle effects too.

How about an animated shield? Like the Animus Arcana swords, crystal balls, staves, and books. That could be interesting. The shield follows you around providing protection.

[espectro]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

How about an animated shield? Like the Animus Arcana swords, crystal balls, staves, and books. That could be interesting. The shield follows you around providing protection.

Does that mean everything is magic in this world? What about the nannonots?

[Rudra]

Nannonots? And no, not everything is magic in the game world. For tech, you could have a robotic shield or other unit that follows you or hovers around you intercepting attacks. You could also be psychokinetically or telekinetically manipulating it instead. Gravitic manipulation of some sort to make the shield keep "falling" after you and into the way of oncoming attacks. The Animus Arcana and the magically floating shield was simplest the easiest example for me to give because other such examples already exist in the game.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add "have" to "a robotic shield"

[Sakura Tenshi]

I mean I’ve wanted a “shield less shield defense” because shield defense has a lot of awesome stuff going for it mechanically:

• Solid mix of resistances and positional defenses (good if your character is tough and actually evasive)
• Grant cover is honestly a better team defense buff for melee characters than maneuvers
• The charge is awesome and does decent damage unlike spring attack
• its one of only three armor sets that give total mez protection coverage. (and in /nin’s case only for scrapper and sentinel versions)
• speaking of sentinels, this could let us have “shield defense sentinels”

[espectro]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Nannonots? And no, not everything is magic in the game world. For tech, you could have a robotic shield or other unit that follows you or hovers around you intercepting attacks. You could also be psychokinetically or telekinetically manipulating it instead. Gravitic manipulation of some sort to make the shield keep "falling" after you and into the way of oncoming attacks. The Animus Arcana and the magically floating shield was simplest the easiest example for me to give because other such examples already exist in the game.

Oh sorry. Typo. I meant nannonauts. So you mean scifi stuff too? Ok I thought you meant like Gandalf when he goes WOOO and that sword starts flying around and hitting goblins. I guess it's more of like a robot Gandalf. There's like little rockets or something on the sword instead.

[Menelruin]

You know, I've kinda wanted an "Orbiting particle shield" powerset for a while (like Magneto using chunks of metal to block attacks), especially since right now we don't really have an offensive OR defensive set that "pairs" well with the Magnetic aura.  Maybe Shield could be made into it?  You're using an object to intercept attacks, does it really matter if you're manipulating it with your hands or your mind?

[biostem]

I don't think CoH processes the direction of attacks - only their damage or positional type.  You can use a magnetic combat aura to kind of simulate it.  What I would like to see is an option where your armor effects only pulse/activate when you either take damage, (for RES toggles), or if you successfully dodge an attack, (for DEF toggles).

[Menelruin]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

I don't think CoH processes the direction of attacks - only their damage or positional type.  You can use a magnetic combat aura to kind of simulate it.  What I would like to see is an option where your armor effects only pulse/activate when you either take damage, (for RES toggles), or if you successfully dodge an attack, (for DEF toggles).

True, like if an enemy behind you attacks and your shield powers "block" it, I don't think it makes you turn around.  But likewise, if you just have a bunch of shrapnel/WHATEVER floating around you, it'll make you harder to hit.

[espectro]

12 hours ago, biostem said:

I don't think CoH processes the direction of attacks - only their damage or positional type.  You can use a magnetic combat aura to kind of simulate it.  What I would like to see is an option where your armor effects only pulse/activate when you either take damage, (for RES toggles), or if you successfully dodge an attack, (for DEF toggles).

Like in Dune with the shields they use for hand to hand fighting.

[Akisan]

On 8/15/2022 at 8:31 PM, That Ninja said:

1. Invisible Shield/No Shield Option

Sometimes its hard to make a shield fit a costume design and sometimes you want to give the impression that a piece of your costume is being used as your shield, like a large gauntlet or robot hand. Since the shield is just a static thing on your character model and isn't thrown around, this option should simple to add, like the no growth bio armor or stone armor options.

 

This is nice because it helps decouple RP stuff from mechanics - allowing for things like @Menelruin's particle shield, or even a Psi/Shield scrapper blunting or blocking blows using Telekinesis (very different from a Psi/SR scrapper dodging everything through seeing the future). 

More importantly though, this may also open the door to curing our shield carrying heroes' terminal stoicness.

 

While we're on this topic though, I'd still like:

 

4: Left/Right handed shield

Part of the old request to allow us to choose if our characters are left or right handed, independent of powerset. 

 

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Akisan said:

or even a Psi/Shield scrapper blunting or blocking blows using Telekinesis

I hadn't considered that. That is a concept that actually would fall under Shield Defense and make having no shield make sense. I retract my opposition to the no shield option.

(Edit: Though I would still be more in favor of having and using a psychic shield, no arguing that telekinesis/psychokinesis do not need corresponding visual parts.)

Edited August 20, 2022 by Rudra

[Yomo Kimyata]

I view certain aspects of certain sets to contain trade offs.  Intentionally or unintentionally, bio and rad armor have some annoying visuals.  Shield does too, as well as having limited partner power sets.

 

If you want shield powers without actually having a shield, then you are making the case that it is an overpowered set.  You could choose a bunch of other sets that don’t have a shield.  All of the rest of them, actually.

[battlewraith]

6 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

If you want shield powers without actually having a shield, then you are making the case that it is an overpowered set.

 

That doesn't make any sense at all. Powers are balanced according to objective traits: defense values, damage, resists, etc. You could even factor in something like animation times because that affects damage over time, attack chains, whatever. Whether or not visuals are annoying is not part of this consideration. What people find annoying is subjective. And making something look cooler might make a set more attractive to players but doesn't translate to it playing any better.