Changes to Invulnerability

[Marine X]

Just started a Praetorian, well created a long time ago, but am finally working on him, and noticed that in the Invulnerabilty Set that Resist Energies now provides a resistance to Psychic, which has always been the Inv. Achilles Heal you had to find a way to fix. When did this Happen? I always try to read Patch Notes carefully but totally missed that. Makes my day, can't believe I didn't know about it though.

[InvaderStych]

 

 

In conjunction with:

 

 

NOTE: The comment about typing changes being one sided (NPCs only) is out of date, but you'd have to dig through the really long thread to discover that.  NPC changes came first, and in a later pre-release patch the change was ported to player attacks.

[El D]

Yeah, the HC devs opted to patch the psi hole with the latest update - long overdue, IMO, considering that Invulnerability was the only Resistance set with a deliberate lack of any damage resistance against its 'thematic weakness.'

[Psyonico]

So, the reason Energy and Invulnerability got psi resist/defense has to do with the changes to attack types.  Since psi attacks no longer are tagged as multiple damage types, the psi hole was a lot more noticeable.

[Pep Rally]

Yeah, it's pretty hilarious. My main Inv/ss now has 90% psi resists.

 

 

[Biff Pow]

Not having to worry the Psi Resist IOs has made slotting pretty straightforward:

 

[Ambidexter]

OK, Supertanker, I'll bite. Why is Unbreakable Guard the best set for Invuln?

[Biff Pow]

58 minutes ago, Ambidexter said:

OK, Supertanker, I'll bite. Why is Unbreakable Guard the best set for Invuln?

 

I just find all the bonuses really useful. Endurance reduction, Energy resists, some Defense, then Psi/Toxic resists. Combined with the Fire/Cold resists from very rare IOs, it's easy to get into the 70s for resistance to everything (except S/L which is obviously capped.)

[twozerofoxtrot]

3 hours ago, Ambidexter said:

OK, Supertanker, I'll bite. Why is Unbreakable Guard the best set for Invuln?

 

It's not really the best for Invul but it is a generally damned good set, for all the reasons Supertanker listed. 

 

I want to believe the picture is sort of a meme. Not that 5 slotting 5 copies of Unbreakable Guard would cripple your tanker, but you're probably overinvesting slots at that point cause you'll have like 150 SL Res and that's just a waste.

 

That said, my own slotting isn't radically different. So maybe not a meme.

 

By the way, @Marine X  not only did they add Psi Resist to the set, but Toxic Def is a thing now and Invincibility now stacks it (in small amounts, same with Psi Def).

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by twozerofoxtrot
@'ed the wrong person!

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

I want to believe the picture is sort of a meme. Not that 5 slotting 5 copies of Unbreakable Guard would cripple your tanker, but you're probably overinvesting slots at that point cause you'll have like 150 SL Res and that's just a waste.

 

Heck, I only run 3 copies of Unbreakable Guard (with only 4 slots) on my Brute--who has to work harder to hit caps.

[PLVRIZR]

And I took quite a bit of a different track:

 

[Gobbledigook]

On 9/8/2022 at 5:32 PM, El D said:

Yeah, the HC devs opted to patch the psi hole with the latest update - long overdue, IMO, considering that Invulnerability was the only Resistance set with a deliberate lack of any damage resistance against its 'thematic weakness.'

Electric armor has a lack of toxic resistance. Ice armor lacks in resistances. Fire armor lacks psi resistance. The resist sets don't even have defense and capped health to fall back on either. Maybe these will get the same treatment in the near furture.

 

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I do think they went a bit OTT with the psi resists for Invulnerability. With the right build/power sets, 80%-90% resists to all is achievable with very high defense and health. I also note that Invulnerability keeps the same DDR on all ATs.

 

Psi resists are one of the easiest resists to cover in an IO build, 6 slots gives 35% psi resists. Fire/ice is also easy.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[PLVRIZR]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

 

I do think they went a bit OTT with the psi resists for Invulnerability. With the right build/power sets, 80%-90% resists to all is achievable with very high defense and health. I also note that Invulnerability keeps the same DDR on all ATs.

 

 

Well, it is named "Invulnerability" 😁

 

But I agree, the right build was ridiculously tough, prior to the changes, now it's astronomic.

[twozerofoxtrot]

8 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I do think they went a bit OTT with the psi resists for Invulnerability.

 

Hard to disagree but I really think this is a direct consequence of IOs like Impervium Armor being introduced that specifically addressed the Psi resist deficiencies.

 

Kind of a hard thing to balance because in the absence of IO slotting you've got scant Psi protection compared to the other types and you're still at the mercy of attacks that only have the Psi tag and no positionals.

 

So personally I'd rather they land on too strong than not strong enough and penalize players without a comprehensive knowledge of IOs and where to squeeze them to get the most Psi resist juice.

[Gobbledigook]

18 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Hard to disagree but I really think this is a direct consequence of IOs like Impervium Armor being introduced that specifically addressed the Psi resist deficiencies.

 

Kind of a hard thing to balance because in the absence of IO slotting you've got scant Psi protection compared to the other types and you're still at the mercy of attacks that only have the Psi tag and no positionals.

 

So personally I'd rather they land on too strong than not strong enough and penalize players without a comprehensive knowledge of IOs and where to squeeze them to get the most Psi resist juice.

Yes i agree...but they need to be careful of trivializing content by being too powerful and creating unbalance with other sets. Invuln was really tough even before the buff now it is silly good, far better than some of the other sets. Hopefully they get some work soon also.

 

Sets like Electric Armor need a small rework. They have a big toxic hole and have no defense/DDR. Defense can be built with IO's but they have no DDR. Personally i would have buffed that set before invuln, which was already pretty good.

 

Possibly the IO sets need some adjusting a little. It is too easy to build for certain resistance/defenses etc than it is for others.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[twozerofoxtrot]

7 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Personally i would have buffed that set before invuln, which was already pretty good.

 

I don't think it's intended as a buff for Invul, or the other sets affected. It was to prevent them from being effectively nerfed by the typed damage changes.

 

If we're talking about Invul being tough beforehand I'd agree and posit that Psi really didn't pose any serious threat to Invul taking advantage of IO resist bonuses in the first place. My tanker ran at 55~ Psi Resist before? The only time I felt affected was running the New Praetorians arc at +4.

 

So that said I'm hard against tweaking other sets because Invul and EA weren't nerfed by the typed damage changes. If we're buffing Elec Armor then give Invul a version of Energize and a damage aura, etc. It becomes an arms race.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by twozerofoxtrot
don't post before morning coffee..

[tidge]

I was aware of the recent attack type changes, but somehow I missed that Resist Energies was also now working against Psi. I simply had not checked the resistances in-game, but I suspect I can probably shuffle some spots currently occupied by Impervium Armor. (I just checked... sitting at 75% Psi resist and 55% Toxic)

 

My current (page 5) rebuild's (primary) defenses look like this:

 

Spoiler

Level 1: Resist Physical Damage

 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30

 (*) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40

 

Level 2:                 Temp Invulnerability     

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP: Level 50

 (*) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40

 

Level 8:                 Unyielding         

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 

Level 18:              Invincibility        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 (*) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5

 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All): Level 50

 (*) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure (Endurance/ ToHit/Defense)

 (*) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50

 

Level 20:              Dull Pain              

 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal: Level 50

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb: Level 50

 

Level 22:              Tough Hide        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50

 (*) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30

 

Level 28:              Resist Energies 

 (A) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Armor - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 50

 (*) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40

 

Level 35:              Resist Elements               

 (A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40

 

With some pool powers:

 

Spoiler

Level 32:              Maneuvers        

 (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense: Level 50

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage: Level 50

 

Level 41:              Tough  

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 

Level 44:              Weave 

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 

I should note, I rarely toggle on Temporary Invulnerability when solo, and I delayed Resist Elements simply because for lower level content I wasn't finding I really needed it.

 

EDIT: It turns out I was being a little sloppy with my build  and slotting (YMMV), at least for page 5. I 'cashed out' two instances of Impervium Armor and went with set bonuses (5xUnbreakable Guard, 4x Gladiator's Armor) instead. This cost me 2x 6% Psi resistance, but in return I got 3.75% Psi/Toxic plus around 2% each for S/L/E/N. I decided 106% S/L (with Tough) was overkill in the new era (I could be wrong, but the damage typing changes must have nerfed the resistance debuff trick right?)  so I basically swapped slots (some minor shuffling of set pieces as well) between Tough and Resist Elements to increase F/C resists by over 5%. I can still get over the S/L cap without Incarnates by toggling on Tough, albeit with a higher endurance cost. I also decided to add the 6th piece to Hecatomb slotting (in place of a reliable %damage proc) which was +6% Psi/Toxic resists, so I feel like I'm up, except for the cushion in the S/L cap from Tough.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by tidge

[Andreah]

I've been on break from CoH since just before the recent issue and am considering coming back with a new Inv/SS tanker, and these discussions are very interesting.

[TheMoncrief]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:32 PM, El D said:

Yeah, the HC devs opted to patch the psi hole with the latest update - long overdue, IMO, considering that Invulnerability was the only Resistance set with a deliberate lack of any damage resistance against its 'thematic weakness.'

I'm pretty sure Electric Armor still lacks any mitigation against Toxic damage. Like, at all. I like the set in theory, but man does that gaping hole really hurt when facing anything that does even moderate Toxic damage. Especially in a set that doesn't even have any +MaxHP power either.

[aethereal]

41 minutes ago, TheMoncrief said:

I'm pretty sure Electric Armor still lacks any mitigation against Toxic damage. Like, at all. I like the set in theory, but man does that gaping hole really hurt when facing anything that does even moderate Toxic damage. Especially in a set that doesn't even have any +MaxHP power either.

 

Its (crashing) T9 has 70% toxic resistance base (Tanker numbers).  It doesn't have any toxic resistance in its non-T9 powers, and it doesn't have any defense at all to anything, but it does of course have healing and regen in Energize and sapping in Power Sink, which are mitigation against all damage types.

 

(Weirdly, I found that despite offering no Defense, Electric Armor has DDR in Static Shield.  ??? )

Edited November 25, 2022 by aethereal

[Radeon]

Do we have some updated build for SS/Invul Tanker considering the discussed changes in damage/resistance values?

 

Edit; found something, thanks.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Radeon

[Gobbledigook]

On 11/25/2022 at 4:25 PM, aethereal said:

 

Its (crashing) T9 has 70% toxic resistance base (Tanker numbers).  It doesn't have any toxic resistance in its non-T9 powers, and it doesn't have any defense at all to anything, but it does of course have healing and regen in Energize and sapping in Power Sink, which are mitigation against all damage types.

 

(Weirdly, I found that despite offering no Defense, Electric Armor has DDR in Static Shield.  ??? )

It should be called Instant Death and mostly useless T9  lol.