Are Elite Bosses too mediocre?

[Coyotedancer]

18 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

The Emissary of Shadows is about the only EB I ever struggled with. Veres only got me the first time, The Emissary usually gets me one or twice per character. But otherwise if EBs are too easy then step up to AVs.

 

 

 

 

A few of my characters really hate that guy. (Ask anyone on the RP channel what Kai thinks of the Envoy. Her assessment is... very colorful, let's say.  😅 ) 

 

For me, it really depends heavily on the specific character and the specific EB. Some of them are much harder than others, and some are much more difficult to overcome with particular ATs or power sets than the average. Others are trivial with a duo or trio and less so for a solo. And *that* makes things complicated. Because it means that you can't just give EBs-as-a-class a big buff across the board without making some of them impossible for some characters. And it may not be the SAME EBs for everyone that suddenly become roadblocks.  

[ivanhedgehog]

3 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

A few of my characters really hate that guy. (Ask anyone on the RP channel what Kai thinks of the Envoy. Her assessment is... very colorful, let's say.  😅 ) 

 

For me, it really depends heavily on the specific character and the specific EB. Some of them are much harder than others, and some are much more difficult to overcome with particular ATs or power sets than the average. Others are trivial with a duo or trio and less so for a solo. And *that* makes things complicated. Because it means that you can't just give EBs-as-a-class a big buff across the board without making some of them impossible for some characters. And it may not be the SAME EBs for everyone that suddenly become roadblocks.  

They could even things out by removing mez protection from every one. That would give you a challenge.

[Stealthrider]

Considering that there are low/mid level arcs that throw EBs at you (Like Roy's arc in Talos, where you have to fight the same EB three times, then *immediately* when he's done for good, another one shows up auto-aggroing on you. Try doing that on an on-level Blaster), no thanks. EBs are fine where they are.

[Frozen Burn]

EBs are fine the way they are.  Anything more and some ATs would struggle too much to defeat them.  And... they are Elite BOSSES... so if anything, they should be closer to boss lvl than closer to AV/Hero lvl. 

 

I also recognize the need/want to have something between an EB and an AV/Hero, but I think that starts muddying up the rankings.  Not opposed to it, but would have to see how it would implement / spawn.  They would have to have their own toggle "solo sub-AVs" (or whatever they will be called) to be separate from "solo Bosses" and Solo AVs."  

[Coyotedancer]

1 hour ago, ivanhedgehog said:

They could even things out by removing mez protection from every one.

 

And you think I would want that... or consider that a good idea... why? 

I'm not one of the people grumping constantly about how the City is an easy-mode baby-game. I'm the one who runs around with a family SG made of relative newbies who are doing well to handle current EBs without dying regularly or running away and accidentally aggroing four other groups in their efforts to play Brave Sir Robin. 😝

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

They could even things out by removing mez protection from every one. That would give you a challenge.

 

Not sure how that evens things out when on some EBs ranged characters can just hover above and shoot the single fish in a barrel whereas melee MUST be all up in the EB's face.

[golstat2003]

21 hours ago, Black Talon said:

All thanks to dtjunkie for introducing the topic, and it is something I have done internal debates about on a couple of occasions.  For the most part, I would agree with the OP thesis: the EBs can be handled with hitting Hasten, a few small insps and making sure a heal insp or two is available.  As an example, I've had multiple alts take out Maestro (Long Jack arc finale in Striga) with relatively little difficulty, specific AT not being a consideration.  The sole exceptions to this rule, as several others have suggested, are Nosferatu and Praetorian Marauder; the latter of which, actually, has been out-of-reach for all but one of my alts - Black Talon, as it turned out - and that guy had to use every insp in the book to come out on top.

 

So, again, agreement with what seems to be a majority opinion here.  I would like EBs to be something really notable to scrap against - not in the, "I'll-need-a-team-to-finish-this-one" category, but certainly something where every power, at that level, is called up for use, and the insp tray should be empty when the scrap is over.  Not sure what might have to be altered/adjusted in order to put this to work - and I'd imagine there'd be a number of Beta-level iterations that would go through trial-testing before it gets put on live - but it is something that would make the mission arc-finale scraps something to really have as a treasured and tales-around-the-campfire memory.

 

I'd rather they create a difficulty slider (as someone else said) to make a level between EBs and AVs.

 

I SOLID GOLD NO from me to just making all EBS more difficult.

[ivanhedgehog]

6 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Not sure how that evens things out when on some EBs ranged characters can just hover above and shoot the single fish in a barrel whereas melee MUST be all up in the EB's face.

please, show me an enemy in coh that doesnt have a ranged attack? range is not a defense when any enemy can splat you at range. They just nerfed recluse to prevent this very thing. you have the haves and the have nots when it comes to status protection. Most fights melee at's just wade right in without a second thought. squishies have to deal with all of that. To come here and talk about challenge when half of the characters hardly ever face that challenge, thats short sighted. At this point in the games life changing the whole combat system to satisfy a few people whining about challenge is insane.

[Erratic1]

6 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

please, show me an enemy in coh that doesnt have a ranged attack? range is not a defense when any enemy can splat you at range. They just nerfed recluse to prevent this very thing. you have the haves and the have nots when it comes to status protection. Most fights melee at's just wade right in without a second thought. squishies have to deal with all of that. To come here and talk about challenge when half of the characters hardly ever face that challenge, thats short sighted. At this point in the games life changing the whole combat system to satisfy a few people whining about challenge is insane.

 

I assure you Protean's ranged attack is far less problematic than his melee attack and being at ranged utterly negates his healing mechanic.

[MoonSheep]

if you think EB's are too soft then you clearly haven't tried to solo this guy:

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by MoonSheep

[High_Beam]

Yeah as everyone has said, it depends on the EB and the AT you are playing.  Nosferatu has ponded me into cheese flavored dog food so many times on so many ATs that I have to pull up the wiki every time to make sure its not the mission where he kills me 40 times because I have forgotten the exact one due to trauma.  Then again I have a couple of characters that are so Brokey Smurf that -1 Bosses wreck them 🙂

[Marshal_General]

Maybe we need something between an EB and an AV called Master Villain?

[TheZag]

It might not be possible any more but flying just close enough to the ground would have the enemy run up to melee attack and you would just be out of range.  They would endlessly run in circles while you blast them and only very occasionally use a ranged attack.

 

Something between AV and EB would be nice.  Damage closer to AV but with probably 1/3 of the hp of an AV.

 

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, TheZag said:

It might not be possible any more but flying just close enough to the ground would have the enemy run up to melee attack and you would just be out of range.  They would endlessly run in circles while you blast them and only very occasionally use a ranged attack.

 

If you hover at just the right height and distance from a wall or ledge that mobs can jump onto, then you can put them into a cycle where they will almost never fire off any attack at all.  They get up on the wall, run towards you and jump off to try to melee, then realise they're now too low but aha!  If they climbed on that wall over they they could get closer!  So they scamper off, get up on the wall, run towards you and jump off to try to attack, then realise they're too low but aha! If they climbed on that wall over there...

[aethereal]

7 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Maybe we need something between an EB and an AV called Master Villain?

Or, hear me out here: an Eliter Boss!

[dtjunkie]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

Or, hear me out here: an Eliter Boss!

 

I would go:

 

Elite Boss

Villain / Hero

Archvillain / Super Hero

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, dtjunkie said:

 

I would go:

 

Elite Boss

Villain / Hero

Archvillain / Super Hero

 

I was joking about the (objectively terrible) name "Eliter Bosses," but to be clear, I did make a serious proposal back on the first stage for how an intermediate-between-EB-and-AV rank could work, and I feel like everyone ignored it and then went on to say things that would've been solved by my scheme:

 

 

[Heavensrun]

4 hours ago, aethereal said:

Or, hear me out here: an Eliter Boss!

Followed by the next rung up, an Elitest Boss.  Not to be confused with an Elitist Boss, which is a normal boss but he refuses to fight you because of your sociopolitical standing.

[Heavensrun]

But seriously, let us not forget that the reason Elite Bosses exist in the first place was so that squishy and support ATs would be able to solo content while levelling.